Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Intelligent design requires evidence: Ah, but what can be considered evidence?

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Recently, an ID-friendly scientist assured me that intelligent design would easily be accepted if only the ID guys would come up with evidence. To my mind, that shows the difficulty people have in understanding what is at stake: the very question of what may count as evidence. Here is how I replied:   
Bench science, like book editing, is independent of content under normal circumstances.

But as Thomas Kuhn points out in Structure of Scientific Revolutions, paradigms determine what counts as evidence.

Mark what follows:

If materialism is assumed to be true and Darwinism is the creation story of materialism, then Darwinism is the best available explanation for the history of life.

So Darwinism is treated as true.

I am NOT saying that that follows logically.

Materialism could be true but its orthodox creation story could be untrue at the same time. Some other materialist story could better account for the evidence, for example.

However, most people do not think that way. (I am describing a course of mental events here, not a logical argument.)

Because Darwinism is treated as true, questioning it is irrational or malign.

If you are a scientist, it is no defence to say that you have uncovered evidence against Darwinism. That makes you a heretic.

Don’t try claiming that you do science better without Darwinism. If you don’t believe it, you shouldn’t be doing science at all, right?

The purpose of science is to uncover the evidence for materialism, and you may as well deny Genesis in a God-fearing chapel as deny Darwinism at the Smithsonian.

You could outperform all your colleagues in research and accomplish nothing except get yourself denied tenure.

What if a theory that clashes with Darwinism better explains changes over time (and even makes verified predictions)?

Well, here’s where the importance of a materialist paradigm comes in: Any explanation that conforms to Darwinism will be preferred to any explanation that does not conform to it – irrespective of a difference in explanatory power that favours the latter.

In the research for the neuroscience book for which I am Montreal neuroscientist Mario Beauregard’s co-author (The Spiritual Brain, Harper, March 2007), I found that really inane and unsatisfactory explanations for various mental states were preferred if they supported the materialist paradigm, over against better explanations that didn’t particularly support it. Sometimes it was ludicrous. But always it was deadly serious.

Kuhn’s Structure is a very useful book to read, for understanding how paradigms determine what can even be considered as evidence.

Thus, in my humble opinion, evidence that supports an ID perspective will be primarily useful to the ID scientists themselves in understanding their own view of the world.

It will be useless for making any general point against the materialist paradigm. ID-friendly evidence will merely be shelved as a problem to be solved or reinterpreted along materialist lines, no matter how flimsy.

So yes, by all means, ID guys, find evidence - but mainly to educate yourself and sketch out your own theory. The more evidence you find, the more unwelcome you will be elsewhere.

ID biochemist Mike Behe was compared to Osama bin Laden in Biology and Philosophy (2003), and that wasn’t because he was thought to be a crank. One doesn’t compare a crank to Osama bin Laden.

Note: bin laden? Yes … here’s the note from By Design or by Chance? “Tamler Sommers and Alex Rosenberg explain in “Darwin’s nihilistic idea: evolution and the meaninglessless of life,” Biology and Philosophy 18: 653–668, 2003 http://www.kluweronline.com/issn/0169-3867 that “Stalin or Osama bin Laden, or Michael Behe, or your favourite villain, is also “an utterly idiosyncratic structure …” The message of the article is that Darwinism requires nihilism. It’s not clear just how these folks understand the nihilism but the grouping of names is unsettling.”
  
After I posted this item to the Post-Darwinist, a commenter kindly noted the following:

At Saturday, October 28, 2006 6:57:24 PM, Jim Sherwood said…

It seems that Michael Behe has done excellent scientific research. He has been listed in American Men and Women of Science, the century-old biographical dictionary of “leaders” in American science, since the edition published in 1994: for 12 years. He is cited for research in the structure of DNA, among other things, in AMWS. He was first listed at the relatively young age of 42.

Since biologist Jerry Coyne has attacked Behe in The New Republic as somehow a “third-rate biologist,” it seems strange that Coyne has never been listed in AMWS. And Coyne published his Ph.D thesis in 1978, so he can’t be much younger than Behe, who is 54 and published his thesis in the same year.

Perhaps Coyne will get better “reviews” from his “peers” as a scientist if he writes enough articles in nonscientific magazines attacking intelligent design theory? Who knows?

Well, yes, Jim, but if I were a Darwinist just now, I would prefer to attack ID than defend Darwinism. Lots of chuckleheads would applaud me for attacking ID even if I wasn’t making any sense at all, but defending Darwinian evolution is currently hard work and slim pickings. You know the sort of thing: Black squirrels survive in Washington, D.C., just as they do in Toronto. Galapagos finches fatten their beaks, or else they thin them, depending on the season. The human race is supposedly dividing  into clever gods vs. moronic dwarfs, though this has never happened before for tens of thousands of years. 

All I ever say about any of this is, no wonder there is an intelligent design controversy and it does not go away! 

 

Comments
joseph: "After-all we really don’t have any “experiments” that would demonstrate (for example) a population of cetaceans could “evolve” from a population of hooved mammals." This certainly falls back on the "paradigm dictates evidence" issue raised by O'leary, but, in my mind, we do have experiments showing that a population of cetaceans could evolve from a population of hooved animals. They are "experiments" involving examining DNA sequences, with the evolutionary scenario generating specific hypotheses about what to expect or not to expect when the sequences of various taxa are examined. I know that this is not the type of experiment you were intending Joseph, but there's simply no other way to demonstrate macroevolution during human lifespans. The best we can achieve are these sort of circumstantial evidence arguments. I also know that many of you will argue that common descent doesn't in any way prove darwinian evolution--as opposed to some other designed mechanism--that is certainly true, but Joseph's statement concerned whether there were experiments showing that such evolution (change) could occur (whatever the underlying mechanism.) As for the details concerning cetaceans, the clearest examples I know are these from Okada's group (below), one of which is freely available now. The logic of these retrotransposon insertions and how they are used to infer relationships is fairly easy to follow compared to other methodologies employed in the field. Nikaido M, Rooney AP, Okada N. Phylogenetic relationships among cetartiodactyls based on insertions of short and long interpersed elements: hippopotamuses are the closest extant relatives of whales. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1999 Aug 31;96(18):10261-6. Shimamura M, Yasue H, Ohshima K, Abe H, Kato H, Kishiro T, Goto M, Munechika I, Okada N. Molecular evidence from retroposons that whales form a clade within even-toed ungulates. Nature. 1997 Aug 14great_ape
October 28, 2006
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What is the measure of IC and CSI? Can you calculate these properties for various organic structures? How do we know a snowflake is not designed? Being able to define in mathematic terms IC and CSI I believe is crucial to ID. Has a methodology for this been defined?ScaryFacts
October 28, 2006
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We have plenty of direct observation and experimental data for micro ID. In biology we have artificial selection and genetically modified foods, just to name a couple. However when we talk about macro ID, we do not yet have such data. We have to rely on what we know about causal agencies. What predictions does ID make? Counterflow, CSI, IC, to name a few. Experiments? If someone went into a lab and designed a bacterial flagellum would that 'prove' ID? However IC and CSI can both be tested experimentally. Some anti-IDists claim that both have been tested and falsified (only to have their claims refuted). I would say we are still at the stage of just getting the design inference allowed. After-all we really don't have any "experiments" that would demonstrate (for example) a population of cetaceans could "evolve" from a population of hooved mammals. What experimnts demonstrate that single-celled organisms can "evolve" into something other than single-celled organisms? BTW- the first black squirrel I ever saw was in Pickering- just East of Toronto. I thought OPG had something to do with that...Joseph
October 28, 2006
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What predictions is ID making? What experiments are being conducted to demonstrate the veracity of those predictions? I would appreciate someone letting me know these answers. From what I have read thus far most of the writing being advanced by ID is more in the realm of philosophy rather than in systematic scientific investigation. Possibly I am mistaken.ScaryFacts
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