Is COVID-19 the end of “Trust Science!!”?

_{May 11, 2020

Canada, Culture, Intelligent Design, Science}

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What happens when “science” is speaking with dozens of different voices, each a momentary flash of Truth unto itself?

Recently, some interesting facts came to light from Canada about who is really affected by COVID-19:

The National Institute on Aging says that as of May 6, 3,436 residents and six staff members of long term care settings had died of COVID-19, representing 82 per cent of the 4,167 deaths reported as of Wednesday…
Last fall, the National Institute on Aging warned long term care homes were plagued by conditions that increased the risk of spreading infections: people living in close quarters in residences faced with chronic shortages of staff, with little space or ability to enforce proper physical distancing measures, where poorly paid employees often work on a part-time basis at multiple facilities, increasing the risk.
The pandemic has borne out those fears.
Tonda MacCharles, “82% of Canada’s COVID-19 deaths have been in long-term care, new data reveals” at Toronto Star

I (O’Leary for News) recall being told explicitly months ago that COVID-19 mainly killed old and/or immune-compromised people. It must be so, at least in Canada, where there have been very few deaths among healthy young people.

So why close schools, throw young people out of work, shut down and maybe destroy their businesses, make it nearly impossible for young families to move, let heart patients die because their surgeries are postponed…

Do we need Albert Einstein to figure this out?: We know where the people in long-term care are. They’re in licensed government-inspected or -run facilities. If we had simply moved to address the problems outlined above and protect them, instead of sucker-punching young people’s lives, we might have saved many seniors, prevented much loss and damage, and weathered the storm much better.

But then we’d need to ignore the pack howls from “science.”

Once we climb back out of the hole we have so furiously dug for ourselves, let’s start thinking more about ignoring the pack howls from “science.”

After all, how many more of them can we afford?

See also: But IS there such a thing as pandemic science? Or is it just panic science? The problems that Lenzer and Brownlee identify in their screed as wrong science are normal components of a panic in a crisis. What it all really shows is that we aren’t as much smarter than our forebears as we think.

Comments

How many here thinks this virus is going away any time soon ?, how many here thinks money grows on trees ?, how many here thinks we can have any kind of society were nobody dies.? So the virus is here for the foreseeable, but money does not grow on trees and people do die, so what are we to do, well we lock down the most vulnerable , we let the least vulnerable get back to work and life, and we do our best to deal with the consequences, its the only reasonable option.Marfin_{May 12, 2020
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Over the weekend, six new cases were reported in Wuhan, the first in 35 consecutive days. None of the new cases were imported from overseas, sparking concern that the infection could still be spreading in the city where the virus is thought to have first emerged. In response to the outbreak, authorities in Wuhan will conduct city-wide nucleic acid testing over a period of 10 days, according to an emergency notice issued by local authorities and circulated by state run media outlet The Paper. The ambitious screening drive, described in the report as a “ten-day battle,” could see up to 11 million people tested — more than the entire population of Greece. https://ktla.com/news/nationworld/wuhan-to-test-all-residents-for-coronavirus-after-new-cluster-of-cases-emerge/rhampton7_{May 12, 2020
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Andrew
Yes, people like Bob O’h, Rhampton7, and Ed George, have been programmed to believe that their betters (scientists, politicians, academics) will provide them with a wonderful world to live in, and that they just go along.
I am even worse. I am one of those scientists who tries to work at creating a wonderful world. You?Ed George_{May 12, 2020
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Denyse OLeary @ 18
Bottom line: In too much of the world today, Neil Ferguson types are the face of science and it ain’t pretty. I like to hope the world has had enough of that, thanks.
Ferguson's personal indiscretions say nothing about his scientific work but he is paying a price for them, as I think he should. If you are going to advise others about what is best for them, you should at least be following your own advice. The same could be said of a number of prominent Christian personalities who have fallen short of the moral standards they preached and who were, for some at least, the public face of the religion. I don't believe their shortcomings are representative of the faith as a whole any more than Ferguson's behavior represents science as a whole.Seversky_{May 12, 2020
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Asauber @ 16
Yes, people like Bob O’h, Rhampton7, and Ed George, have been programmed to believe that their betters (scientists, politicians, academics) will provide them with a wonderful world to live in, and that they just go along.
Unlike the sheeple that will follow to hell and back someone who sells them a MAGA hat and tells them he's going to make (white) America great again.Seversky_{May 12, 2020
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I apologize for 29 the comments at 28 absolutely makes me furious If the administrator wants to remove it I didn’t have enough time to remove it but I can understandAaronS1978_{May 12, 2020
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It's odd how far we stray from a simple point. In Canada (read the OP), the most vulnerable people were not protected. Everyone else was doing everything but handstands to fight the virus. That's a sign of a corrupt knowledge base. Compared to the COVID meltdown, the changes needed to protect the most vulnerable would have been easy to implement. So why weren't they? Be sure some of us will be looking for answers and ignoring many avenues of misdirection. By the way, if meat packing plants are a virus locus, what ties them together?Denyse OLeary_{May 12, 2020
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Because human life is supported by the economy if you destroy the economy you destroyed peoples livelihood, I can claim that you’re being callous and idiotic and you have no foresight So it is simply your definition of being callous Furthermore the disease is inevitable at least 78% of the population is going to catch the disease Now I can say that you’re uncaring and an unthoughtful person, And here’s why I don’t see your incredible amount of enthusiasm for the lives of those that die from cancer, I can say that you’re an uncaring and unthoughtful person for your lack of Enthusiasm for those that die from the water related disease, I could say that you’re uncaring and unthoughtful for every person that died from HIV the list goes on All of them have killed more people than Covid Then the fallacious remark that you made that I don’t care about some old weak people That is a disgusting statement that came out of your mouth and it is your assumption I probably take more precautions to prevent people from being infected by this disease then you do, I work around hundreds of people a day. The lion share of them happened to be elderly so how dare you make that comment that was an incredibly ignorant comment of yours. I take all of the precautions to make sure not one of them gets infected. My coworkers and I were complaining about the fact that these mass or rubbing the back of our ears raw Now I can assume (like you and your wisdom) You also don’t care for old people or people in general Try apologizing to a family that’s about to lose their home because they lost their jobs When you watch somebody who worked all of their life to build a small business and then you watch it go away and with it your income and your ability to live. But you needed to stay at home the home that you’re about to lose You can explain to my next-door neighbor who killed him selves after losing their job that you should’ve just stayed at home The suicide life doesn’t matter that’s not important at all we have to stay at home we have to live by the extreme means of staying at home There are so many lives that you just don’t think about when you do your little rants By the way it’s about 15 million babies that are slaughtered for the glory of abortion Call it a fetus, it’s still a human life And while we’re at it let’s times that number of covid infected by three and will also times the number of covid deaths by three add them to the other and it still won’t equal the same number of abortions So pardon me if I don’t think your opinion means anything So why don’t you take your what about-isms and your maybes and your fear mongering and toss it in the trash You and everybody else is going to get the disease it’s inevitableAaronS1978_{May 12, 2020
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@AaronS1978 Human life < Economy That is a textbook definition of callous. Who cares if a few old or weak people die as long as people aren't inconvenienced with such extreme measures like staying home or wearing a mask. How is that NOT callous? @Denyse OLeary I don't deny the distinction between intentional murder and passive indifference to letting people die. The point is in either case life is regarded as something to be wasted. Life is precious or it is not. Would you be fine with allowing people to deliver a fetus at 12 weeks and passively letting it die? Also, you're advancing the quality of life over sanctity of life argument for COVID-19 demonstrates anti-abortion arguments is not a red herring.David P_{May 12, 2020
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Ok it spreads we can’t stay locked down foreverAaronS1978_{May 12, 2020
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A phase II clinical trial has found that a combination of three drugs — interferon beta-1b, lopinavir-ritonavir, and ribavirin — plus standard care is successful in treating mild-to-moderate cases of COVID-19. This three-drug combination also shortens the duration of viral shedding — that is, the period during which the virus is detectable in a person’s body and transmissible to others. The results of the new multicenter, prospective, open-label, randomized trial now appear in the journal The Lancet. The researchers recruited 127 participants between February 10 and March 20, 2020. These participants came from six hospitals in Hong Kong, China, where doctors had tested them for SARS-CoV-2 and obtained positive results. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-3-drug-combo-treatment-may-be-successfulrhampton7_{May 12, 2020
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The coronavirus spread at more than twice the national rate in U.S. counties with major meatpacking plants in the first week after President Donald Trump issued an executive orderdirecting that they be reopened. Confirmed Covid-19 cases jumped 40% during the week following the order in counties with major beef or pork slaughterhouses, compared with a 19% rise nationally, according to a Bloomberg News analysis of data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. The counties accounted for 10% of new confirmed cases from April 28 to May 5 while representing just 7.5% of the U.S. population. Infections climbed even faster where slaughterhouses were outside major population centers, and may have a greater impact. The disparity underscores the extent to which the areas around meat processors — many located in rural regions far away from initial hot spots — have become epicenters of the virus. The data doesn’t address other types of industrial facilities that may be in those counties https://www.claimsjournal.com/news/national/2020/05/12/297016.htmrhampton7_{May 12, 2020
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There are now COVID-19 outbreaks at 23 North Carolina meat processing plants, with 1,340 total positive cases at those plants, according to NCDHHS. Officials would not specify the names of the companies or detail numbers for every plant or county. However, some of the reported outbreaks are in the WBTV area. An “outbreak" is when a facility has at least two confirmed cases. https://www.wbtv.com/2020/05/12/nc-has-meat-processing-plants-with-covid-outbreaks-more-than-cases/rhampton7_{May 12, 2020
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South Korea announced its biggest spike in coronavirus infections in more than a month Monday, driven by a cluster at Seoul nightclubs and forcing authorities to delay this week’s planned re-opening of schools. South Korean officials reported 35 new cases Monday, taking its total to 10,909, after recording only single-digit increases for eight of the preceding 12 days — many of them overseas arrivals. Now 86 cases have been linked to the nightlife cluster, the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said. the KCDC said there appeared to be multiple origins for the cluster, with director Jeong Eun-kyeong telling reporters people visited “different kinds of clubs” on “different dates”. “The majority of the visitors are not reachable,” said Prime Minister Chung Sye-kyun. “If you hesitate a single day, our daily clock may stop for a month. Please contact the nearest clinic or health centre right now.” https://themalaysianreserve.com/2020/05/12/new-nightlife-cluster-causes-spike-in-south-korea-virus-cases/rhampton7_{May 12, 2020
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@denyse 15,427,466 abortions Call them a fetus as not to make some sort of personal attachment or humanize them The number rises like a second timerAaronS1978_{May 12, 2020
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AaronS1978, yes, dishonesty and confusion in the name of Science. That won't go unnoticed. Indifference to the importance of doing the right thing, so long as we can say we did SOMETHING!! Abortion is a red herring here. People INTEND to kill their kids in abortions. No one intended any other person's death in Canada, so far as I know, but stupid policies driven by foolish considerations doomed many seniors who might have had a few good years left and damaged the lives and prospects of many others for no good reason. I'm old enough to remember lots of serious epidemics and if we'd behaved this way back in the 1950s and 1960s, we'd be back in the Stone Age by now. Maybe some people never really wanted to leave.Denyse OLeary_{May 12, 2020
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Human fetus = human person The economy being destroyed results is millions of people suffering, and deaths No one is being callous, they are complaining this was to extreme and there was to much dishonesty about the virus. Which both are trueAaronS1978_{May 12, 2020
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We don't need Einstein to realize virtually every argument used against abortion also applies to the old and/or immune-compromised people. So a few fetuses will die, schools must stay open. So a few fetuses will die, we can't throw young people out of work. So a few fetuses will die, we can't shut down and maybe destroy their businesses. So a few fetuses will die, we can't... Stop being so callous about life, unless you're prepared to change your views on abortion.David P_{May 12, 2020
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BobRyan at 13, I wasn't accusing you of authoritarianism . I am referring to the people who seem to genuinely enjoy the shutdowns and the shuddups that the crisis has generated. Bob O'H at 15: Of course social distancing works. If it didn't, the virus would need to be something quite different from what research suggests. But if young people are at low risk of dying anyway, the damage created to them as a group by shutting down the economy makes no sense. We could have done that when chicken pox and other contagions raged back in the Sixties, before the vaccines. I'm glad we didn't. Worse, in my own country, we didn't protect the people we had to know were more vulnerable. For several reasons, we allowed them to be at greater risk. Bottom line: In too much of the world today, Neil Ferguson types are the face of science and it ain't pretty. I like to hope the world has had enough of that, thanks. - d.Denyse OLeary_{May 12, 2020
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We don’t know if the current difference between Sweden and Norway is relevant. Flattening the curve may be just postponing the inevitable. Does everyone have to get it? Is flattening the curve actually causing more deaths than saving? In the US the health system has to a large part shut down and severe economic downturns lead to more deaths. Those promoting Zelenko’s approach claim a mortality rate of .03% if treated early. The current approach is several magnitudes more deadly because there is no treatment. Ask yourself why this simple treatment that apparently works costing a total $9 is being buried? https://bit.ly/3554Tik Is the reaction to the virus being driven by political money? Sharyl Attikson believes so. https://bit.ly/3fGElsC Has the campaign against HCQ cost thousands of lives? https://bit.ly/2A523i5 and https://bit.ly/2Wftsq1jerry_{May 12, 2020
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"It comes from superstitious regard for science and uncritical trust in noise generated by experts." Yes, people like Bob O'h, Rhampton7, and Ed George, have been programmed to believe that their betters (scientists, politicians, academics) will provide them with a wonderful world to live in, and that they just go along. So, any pretense that they use their own judgement to arrive at their positions is just for show. That's why they are so predictable and repetitive. Never a stray thought out into the light. Andrewasauber_{May 12, 2020
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BobRyan - err, yes. half the population. Not 10-15 times less. And where do you get your age stat from? according to the CIA, the difference in median age is about 2 years.Bob O'H_{May 12, 2020
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Meanwhile, we flubbed doing one of the few things that would have made a difference: isolating the genuinely vulnerable.
But everyone is genuinely vulnerable, only some are more vulnerable. Isolating everyone immunocompromised and old, but letting everyone else roam free means that more younger people die. It also runs the risk that people caring for those isolated are more likely to become infected, and thus pass the virus on to these small isolated communities.Bob O'H_{May 12, 2020
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Denyse OLeary Nothing in my post suggests anything of the sort, nor has anything I've ever posted shown a leaning towards authoritarianism. I'm the one who has pointed out, numerous times, that states are violating the Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution and committing an act of economic rebellion against the United States by putting an undue burden on interstate commerce. I don't believe anyone should be quarantined. This is not the Spanish flu, nor is it the equivalent of influenza. 500,000 people die every year from influenza. COVID-19 will probably come in around 400,000 deaths. Constant washing of hands, wearing masks, hiding in homes, social distancing, constant cleaning of surfaces works to weaken the immune system. The noise being generated by the elites is not based on science, but science-fiction. You will have an increase in health related problems when immune systems are exposed to environments they are normally exposed to.BobRyan_{May 12, 2020
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Bob O'H Norway has about half the population as Sweden and a younger average age by about 5 years.BobRyan_{May 12, 2020
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Sweden has not been putting any measures in place, including distancing. They were projected to reach 100,000 dead by May 1. It hasn’t even reached 3500.
Which is about 15 times as many deaths as here is Norway, where we have had social distancing etc. Curious, that.Bob O'H_{May 12, 2020
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BobRyan at 9: It comes from superstitious regard for science and uncritical trust in noise generated by experts. Add to that, a taste for authoritarianism among our social elite and its courtier media - and this storm is going to cost us plenty. Meanwhile, we flubbed doing one of the few things that would have made a difference: isolating the genuinely vulnerable. One question is, how many more of these will we go through before enough people wise up. One fears to think... They've been taught from toddlerhood to venerate "science"...Denyse OLeary_{May 12, 2020
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Ships, both civilian and military, are floating cities and outbreaks give us a lot of data we wouldn't otherwise have. That data tells us between 20-25% will contract the virus, which means 75-80% of a given population will never get it. Of those who do, most will not die. The Diamond Princess was filled with passengers who are overweight and older, yet only had 9 deaths. They cannot social distance on a ship, since there is no room. The passageways are narrow and everyone touches something an infected person touched at some point. If most people who come in contact, about 80%, will never contract the virus, and those who do will only see a small percentage of death, why is this being treated as if it's worse than influenza? Influenza is more lethal and easier to contract than COVID-19. The one who came up with the projections resigned in disgrace for being so wrong. Rather than continue to pretend it didn't happen, we should be wondering how projections led to fear and the crippling of the global economy.BobRyan_{May 12, 2020
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Sweden has not been putting any measures in place, including distancing. They were projected to reach 100,000 dead by May 1. It hasn't even reached 3500. Projections are based on science-fiction. Everything being done from quarantine to distancing, contact hand washing to wearing masks, is weakening the immune system.BobRyan_{May 11, 2020
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Sure https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ The problem with your comment is we honestly don’t know the truth we don’t know how long it’s been in the populace and we don’t actually know the number of infected but I can definitely tell you that the number of infected is going up and death rates going down Please stop calling people selfish they are denying science because they don’t want to except that this virus apparently the black plague reborn which it is notAaronS1978_{May 11, 2020
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