Is Jerry Coyne undercutting his own argument against free will?

_{Denyse O'Leary

November 16, 2020

Intelligent Design, Mind, Naturalism}

Share: Facebook; Twitter; LinkedIn; Flipboard; Print; Email

Michael Egnor thinks that Darwinian evolutionary biologist Jerry Coyne undercuts his own argument against free will by admitting that quantum phenomena are real:

Recently, he wrote:
“Yes, we have that feeling of freedom, and that feeling is certainly real, but the illusion is that, as even compatibilists admit, we could not have done other than what we did at any moment in time. And, except for the action of any quantum events, the future is completely determined by the past. [emphasis mine] – Jerry Coyne, “A PBS Space Time Video Does an Unconvincing Job of Discussing Free Will” at Why Evolution Is True”
“Except for action of any quantum events”? I challenge Coyne: What in nature isn’t the action of quantum events? Certainly, every event in the brain is quantum in nature—every brain state, every action potential, every secretion of a neurotransmitter, every bit of protein synthesis or ion flow—is the consequence of quantum events. Because all quantum events are non-deterministic, then all brain states are non-deterministic, and the free will deniers’ claim that nature is deterministic falls to pieces.
Michael Egnor, “A materialist gives up on determinism” at Mind Matters News

Mind Matters News offers a number of articles on free will by neurosurgeon Michael Egnor including

Why I, as a neurosurgeon, believe in free will. The spiritual aspect of the human soul, sadly, leaves its signature in epilepsy.

and

Can physics prove there is no free will? No, but it can make physicists incoherent when they write about free will. It’s hilarious. Sabine Hossenfelder misses the irony that she insists that people “change their minds” by accepting her assertion that they… can’t change their minds.

Comments

Aaron, It should be the very definition of a self-refuting statement that is given in Logic 101 classes. :)bornagain77_{November 17, 2020
November
11
Nov
17
17
2020
06:19 PM
6
06
19
PM
PDT}

So that is one of the most frustrating lines of logic that this man posits He is a determinist a hard determinist And free will is an illusion so strong that people refuse to believe it’s an illusion So the determinist that believes everything is pre-determined and there is no free will is perplexed by the fact that people can’t believe otherwise.......Almost like they were, you know, predetermined to believe in free will. People that teach this sort of logic should be firedAaronS1978_{November 17, 2020
November
11
Nov
17
17
2020
04:33 PM
4
04
33
PM
PDT}

Aaron, speaking of being humorous, Jerry Coyne completely missed the humor that is literally dripping off his following statement,
THE ILLUSION OF FREE WILL - Sam Harris - 2012 Excerpt: "Free will is an illusion so convincing that people simply refuse to believe that we don’t have it." - Jerry Coyne https://samharris.org/the-illusion-of-free-will/
bornagain77_{November 17, 2020
November
11
Nov
17
17
2020
11:18 AM
11
11
18
AM
PDT}

Hey I was definitely being humorous because I could not believe the combination that this article was It could not be better suited for BA77 It’s like watching the SNL celebrity Jeopardy episode where Trebek puts up “famous mothers” category and Sean Connery’s response was “my day has come Trebek my day has come” Quantum physics free will and objections to an atheist being hypocritical That’s like literally begging for you to shoot them downAaronS1978_{November 17, 2020
November
11
Nov
17
17
2020
10:04 AM
10
10
04
AM
PDT}

It is also important to realize that quantum information is also conserved. As the following article states, In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed.
Quantum no-hiding theorem experimentally confirmed for first time - 2011 Excerpt: In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed. This concept stems from two fundamental theorems of quantum mechanics: the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem. A third and related theorem, called the no-hiding theorem, addresses information loss in the quantum world. According to the no-hiding theorem, if information is missing from one system (which may happen when the system interacts with the environment), then the information is simply residing somewhere else in the Universe; in other words, the missing information cannot be hidden in the correlations between a system and its environment. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.html
The implication of finding 'non-local', beyond space and time, and ‘conserved’, quantum information in molecular biology on such a massive scale, in every important biomolecule in our bodies, is fairly, and pleasantly, obvious. That pleasant implication, of course, being the fact that we now have very strong empirical evidence suggesting that we do indeed have an eternal soul that is capable of living beyond the death of our material bodies. As Stuart Hameroff states in the following article, "the quantum information,,, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed.,,, it's possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”
Leading Scientists Say Consciousness Cannot Die It Goes Back To The Universe - Oct. 19, 2017 - Spiritual Excerpt: “Let’s say the heart stops beating. The blood stops flowing. The microtubules lose their quantum state. But the quantum information, which is in the microtubules, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed. It just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large. If a patient is resuscitated, revived, this quantum information can go back into the microtubules and the patient says, “I had a near death experience. I saw a white light. I saw a tunnel. I saw my dead relatives.,,” Now if they’re not revived and the patient dies, then it's possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.” - Stuart Hameroff - Quantum Entangled Consciousness - Life After Death - video (5:00 minute mark) https://www.disclose.tv/leading-scientists-say-consciousness-cannot-die-it-goes-back-to-the-universe-315604
Verse
Mark 8:37 Is anything worth more than your soul?
Of course, for the sake of brevity, I have left out many details that have recently been discovered about quantum biology in this post. I touch upon some of those discoveries in quantum biology, in greater detail, in the following videos,
How Quantum Mechanics and Consciousness Correlate - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f0hL3Nrdas Darwinian Materialism vs. Quantum Biology – Part II - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSig2CsjKbg
Also see:
Michael Egnor Shows You're Not A Meat Robot (Science Uprising EP2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQo6SWjwQIk&list=PLR8eQzfCOiS1OmYcqv_yQSpje4p7rAE7-&index=2 Jeffrey Schwartz: You Are More than Your Brain - Science Uprising Extra Content https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFIOSQNuXuY&list=PLR8eQzfCOiS1OmYcqv_yQSpje4p7rAE7-&index=9
bornagain77_{November 17, 2020
November
11
Nov
17
17
2020
03:53 AM
3
03
53
AM
PDT}

As to,
"except for the action of any quantum events, the future is completely determined by the past." – Jerry Coyne
To which Dr. Egnor rightly responds,
“Except for action of any quantum events”? I challenge Coyne: What in nature isn’t the action of quantum events? Certainly, every event in the brain is quantum in nature—every brain state, every action potential, every secretion of a neurotransmitter, every bit of protein synthesis or ion flow—is the consequence of quantum events. Because all quantum events are non-deterministic, then all brain states are non-deterministic, and the free will deniers’ claim that nature is deterministic falls to pieces." - Michael Egnor
As to this in particular,
"every event in the brain is quantum in nature—every brain state, every action potential, every secretion of a neurotransmitter, every bit of protein synthesis or ion flow—is the consequence of quantum events."
As Dr. Egnor is pointing out in his amazement that Coyne is unaware that quantum. mechanics undergirds everything, including biology, biologists, evolutionary biologists in particular, (such as Jerry Coyne), simply have not incorporated quantum theory into their conception of biology yet. As Jim Al-Khalili noted, "Physicists and Chemists have had a long time to try and get use to it (Quantum Mechanics). Biologists, on the other hand, have got off lightly in my view. They are very happy with their balls and sticks models of molecules.",,, "It doesn't really require much in the way of quantum mechanics in the way to explain it."
Jim Al-Khalili, at the 2:30 minute mark of the following video states, ",,and Physicists and Chemists have had a long time to try and get use to it (Quantum Mechanics). Biologists, on the other hand, have got off lightly in my view. They are very happy with their balls and sticks models of molecules. The balls are the atoms. The sticks are the bonds between the atoms. And when they can't build them physically in the lab nowadays they have very powerful computers that will simulate a huge molecule.,, It doesn't really require much in the way of quantum mechanics in the way to explain it." At the 6:52 minute mark of the video, Jim Al-Khalili goes on to state: “To paraphrase, (Erwin Schrödinger in his book “What Is Life”), he says at the molecular level living organisms have a certain order. A structure to them that’s very different from the random thermodynamic jostling of atoms and molecules in inanimate matter of the same complexity. In fact, living matter seems to behave in its order and its structure just like inanimate matter cooled down to near absolute zero. Where quantum effects play a very important role. There is something special about the structure, about the order, inside a living cell. So Schrodinger speculated that maybe quantum mechanics plays a role in life”. Jim Al-Khalili – Quantum biology – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOzCkeTPR3Q
And there is a very good reason why evolutionary biologists have not incorporated quantum mechanics into biology yet. Quantum Mechanics is simply completely incompatible with the reductive materialism that Darwinian evolution is based upon,
Why Quantum Theory Does Not Support Materialism - By Bruce L Gordon, Ph.D. Excerpt: Because quantum theory is thought to provide the bedrock for our scientific understanding of physical reality, it is to this theory that the materialist inevitably appeals in support of his worldview. But having fled to science in search of a safe haven for his doctrines, the materialist instead finds that quantum theory in fact dissolves and defeats his materialist understanding of the world. https://www.namb.net/apologetics-blog/why-quantum-theory-does-not-support-materialism/
In fact, due to materialistic presuppositions, it was held that the 'spooky action at a distance' (Einstein) of quantum entanglement could not exist in biological systems, As the following article states, "previous orthodoxy",,,, held that quantum effects could not exist in biological systems because of the amount of noise in these systems',,"
Quantum entanglement in hot systems - Nov. 2011 Excerpt: The authors remark that this reverses the previous orthodoxy, which held that quantum effects could not exist in biological systems because of the amount of noise in these systems,,, Environmental noise here drives a persistent and cyclic generation of new entanglement. http://quantum-mind.co.uk/quantum-entanglement-hot-systems/
Moreover, In the following video, at the 22:20 minute mark, Dr Rieper shows why high temperatures do not prevent DNA from having entanglement and then at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper goes on to remark that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it.
"What happens is this classical information (of DNA) is embedded, sandwiched, into the quantum information (of DNA). And most likely this classical information is never accessed because it is inside all the quantum information. You can only access the quantum information or the electron clouds and the protons. So mathematically you can describe that as a quantum/classical state." Elisabeth Rieper – Classical and Quantum Information in DNA – video (Longitudinal Quantum Information resides along the entire length of DNA discussed at the 19:30 minute mark; at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper remarks that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it) https://youtu.be/2nqHOnVTxJE?t=1176
Moreover, in the following more recent 2015 paper entitled, “Quantum criticality in a wide range of important biomolecules” it was found that “Most of the molecules taking part actively in biochemical processes are tuned exactly to the transition point and are critical conductors,” and the researchers further commented that “finding even one (biomolecule) that is in the quantum critical state by accident is mind-bogglingly small and, to all intents and purposes, impossible.,, of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,”,,,
Quantum criticality in a wide range of important biomolecules – Mar. 6, 2015 Excerpt: “Most of the molecules taking part actively in biochemical processes are tuned exactly to the transition point and are critical conductors,” they say. That’s a discovery that is as important as it is unexpected. “These findings suggest an entirely new and universal mechanism of conductance in biology very different from the one used in electrical circuits.” The permutations of possible energy levels of biomolecules is huge so the possibility of finding even one (biomolecule) that is in the quantum critical state by accident is mind-bogglingly small and, to all intents and purposes, impossible.,, of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,”,,, “what exactly is the advantage that criticality confers?” https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/the-origin-of-life-and-the-hidden-role-of-quantum-criticality-ca4707924552
In this follow up article, the researcher(s) goes on to note the insurmountable problem that quantum criticality presents for Darwinists. Specifically, "There is no obvious evolutionary reason why a protein should evolve toward a quantum-critical state, and there is no chance at all that the state could occur randomly.,,,"
Quantum Critical Proteins – Stuart Lindsay – Professor of Physics and Chemistry at Arizona State University – 2018 Excerpt: The difficulty with this proposal lies in its improbability. Only an infinitesimal density of random states exists near the critical point.,, Gábor Vattay et al. recently examined a number of proteins and conducting and insulating polymers.14 The distribution for the insulators and conductors were as expected, but the functional proteins all fell on the quantum-critical distribution. Such a result cannot be a consequence of chance.,,, WHAT OF quantum criticality? Vattay et al. carried out electronic structure calculations for the very large protein used in our work. They found that the distribution of energy-level spacings fell on exactly the quantum-critical distribution, implying that this protein is also quantum critical. There is no obvious evolutionary reason why a protein should evolve toward a quantum-critical state, and there is no chance at all that the state could occur randomly.,,, http://inference-review.com/article/quantum-critical-proteins Gábor Vattay et al., “Quantum Criticality at the Origin of Life,” Journal of Physics: Conference Series 626 (2015); Gábor Vattay, Stuart Kauffman, and Samuli Niiranen, “Quantum Biology on the Edge of Quantum Chaos,” PLOS One 9, no. 3 (2014)
The problems that 'Quantum Biology' presents to the Darwinian materialist gets worse, much worse, for the Darwinist. Many scientists, evolutionary biologists in particular, are committed to the philosophy of reductive materialism which holds, among other things, that there are no 'super-natural' forces arising from outside space-time. As Lewontin noted, "that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.,,, To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen. "
"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen. " - Lewontin
Yet, despite Lewontin's, and other Darwinists's, aversion to ever considering even the possibility of miracles as plausible, quantum coherence and/or quantum entanglement, (as has been repeatedly shown and as Dr. Egnor has referenced) is now shown to be a non-local, beyond space and time, effect that requires a beyond space and time cause in order to explain its existence. (i.e. repeated experimentation shows that 'hidden variables' can not possibly explain the effect of quantum entanglement) As the following paper entitled “Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory” stated, “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,”
Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory – 29 October 2012 Excerpt: “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,” http://www.quantumlah.org/highlight/121029_hidden_influences.php
Darwinists, with their reductive materialistic framework, simply have no beyond space and time cause that they can appeal so as to be able to explain the non-local quantum coherence and/or entanglement that is now found to be ubiquitous within biology. Whereas Christians readily do have a beyond space and time cause that they can appeal to so as to explain quantum entanglement. As Colossians 1:17 states, “He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
Colossians 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
bornagain77_{November 17, 2020
November
11
Nov
17
17
2020
03:52 AM
3
03
52
AM
PDT}

And Jerry lets a foot in the door. Hehe. Hehehehe.mike1962_{November 17, 2020
November
11
Nov
17
17
2020
03:00 AM
3
03
00
AM
PDT}

Aaron, "I summon the power of BA77" I know you were being humorous, but, as I am sure you are well aware, in Christ are hidden 'all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.'
Colossians 2:2-3 2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
And, as I am also sure that you are well aware, apart from God we can do nothing,
John 15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
Thus in our own power we are very limited,, not to put a damper on your humor Aaron, but it is important to realize exactly Who holds "all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge." This dependency on Christ for 'true knowledge' use to be common knowledge. In fact, (in a history that is now largely forgotten now), approximately 106 out of the first 108 colleges in America were Christian colleges, including Harvard which was the first university in America.
The History of Christian Education in America Excerpt: The first colleges in America were founded by Christians and approximately 106 out of the first 108 colleges were Christian colleges. In fact, Harvard University, which is considered today as one of the leading universities in America and the world was founded by Christians. One of the original precepts of the then Harvard College stated that students should be instructed in knowing God and that Christ is the only foundation of all “sound knowledge and learning.” http://www.ehow.com/about_6544422_history-christian-education-america.html Only eighteen years after the Pilgrims landed in the New World, Harvard College, the first of the Ivy League schools, was established for the sake of educating the clergy and raising up a Christian academic institution to meet the needs of perpetuating the Christian faith. All of the Ivy League schools were established by Christians for the sake of advancing Christianity and meeting the academic needs of the New World. No better summary of this effort can be offered than the one provided by the founders themselves:,,, https://christianheritagefellowship.com/the-christian-founding-of-harvard/
We can still see the undeniable imprint of Christianity in many of the universities's mottos
Deciphering the Columbia Seal, Motto, and More Excerpt: The school’s motto, “In Lumine Tuo Videbimis Lumen,” is a Latin translation of Psalm 36: 9 from the Hebrew book of Psalms (known as Tehillim in Hebrew, which means “Praises”). The Psalms were believed to be written by King David. The words of the motto mean “In your light we see the light,” a reference to G-d’s light. http://www.columbiamedicinemagazine.org/ps-news/fall-2017/deciphering-columbia-seal-motto-and-more Harvard’s motto, Veritas, which is Latin for “truth,” was adopted as Harvard’s motto in 1643, but did not see the light of day for almost two centuries. Instead, in 1650, the Harvard Corporation chose In Christi Gloriam, a Latin phrase meaning “For the glory of Christ.” https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2015/05/seal-of-approval/ List of university and college mottos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_university_and_college_mottos#United_States
bornagain77_{November 17, 2020
November
11
Nov
17
17
2020
02:32 AM
2
02
32
AM
PDT}

I summon the power of BA77 Hookah Chaga Hookah Chaga hoe hoe hoe! Now go and destroy Coyne with your near endless stores of knowledge for which directly pertain exactly to this very topic. Quantum mechanics, free will, and an atheistAaronS1978_{November 16, 2020
November
11
Nov
16
16
2020
05:36 PM
5
05
36
PM
PDT}

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Leave a Reply