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It’s official: there are no ring species

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Readers who were taught about ring species as evidence for evolution in high school are due for a surprise: it now appears that there aren’t any, after all. There were only a few alleged cases to begin with, but now, they’ve all been discredited. The last “good example” of a ring species has just been struck off the list, in a new paper by Miguel Alcaide et al. in Nature

“What’s a ring species?” I hear some of you ask. In a recent post titled, There are no ring species, which is well worth reading, evolutionary biologist Jerry Coyne describes the process whereby ring species supposedly originate:

It works like this: a species expands its range and encounters a roughly round geographic barrier like a valley, the Arctic ice cap, or an uninhabitable plateau. It divides and spreads around the edges of the barrier, so that its range becomes circular as it expands. And as the range begins to form a circle, the populations within it begin to become genetically different as they respond to local selection pressures. But the circle is never interrupted, so while each part of the expanding species becomes genetically different, it still exchanges genes with adjacent populations.

What this causes is a group of populations in which adjacent areas are genetically similar, but become less similar as they become more distant. That’s because the more-distant populations supposedly experience more – different environments, and gene flow between distant populations is attenuated because genes have to flow through all the intervening populations.

At the end, the populations have expanded so far that the ring has “closed”: the species has completely encircled the barrier and the two most genetically diverged populations contact each other. If they are so genetically diverged that they cannot form fertile hybrids, they then appear to be two biological species.

Wikipedia provides a handy definition of a ring species and how it allegedly provides evidence for evolution in its article on ring species:

In biology, a ring species is a connected series of neighbouring populations, each of which can interbreed with closely sited related populations, but for which there exist at least two “end” populations in the series, which are too distantly related to interbreed, though there is a potential gene flow between each “linked” population. Such non-breeding, though genetically connected, “end” populations may co-exist in the same region thus closing a “ring”…

Ring species provide important evidence of evolution in that they illustrate what happens over time as populations genetically diverge, and are special because they represent in living populations what normally happens over time between long deceased ancestor populations and living populations, in which the intermediates have become extinct…

Formally, interfertility (ability to interbreed) is not a transitive relation – if A can breed with B, and B can breed with C, it does not follow that A can breed with C…

Ring species also present an interesting case of the species problem, for those who seek to divide the living world into discrete species… The problem… is whether to quantify the whole ring as a single species (despite the fact that not all individuals can interbreed) or to classify each population as a distinct species (despite the fact that it can interbreed with its near neighbours). Ring species illustrate that the species concept is not as clear-cut as it is often thought to be.

There were only a few cases of ring species in Nature to begin with, but as Jerry Coyne acknowledges in his latest post, the last one has now been debunked:

A while back, when I said in the comments of an evolution post that there were no good “ring species,” a few readers asked me what I meant by that. “What about the salamander Ensatina eschscholtzii? Or seagulls in the genus Larus? Aren’t those good ring species?” My answer was that those had been shown not to be ring species in the classic sense, but there was still one species that might be a candidate: the greenish warbler Phylloscopus trochiloides around the Tibetan Plateau.

But now that one, too, has been struck off the list of ring species, leaving no good cases.

The greenish warbler. Image courtesy of Wikipedia.

The problem with all these alleged instances of “ring species” in Nature is that the formation of these “rings” involved sporadic episodes of geographic isolation between populations, rather than the continuous gene flow involved in making a ring species. That doesn’t matter much for Coyne, because the latest findings still illustrate “how geographic isolation by distance can promote reproductive isolation and speciation.” Coyne is saddened but not dismayed by the discovery that there are no true “ring species” in Nature:

It’s no great loss, though, that we lack good examples, for ring species didn’t really demonstrate any new evolutionary principles. They showed something we already knew — that reproductive isolation is promoted by anything that reduces gene flow between populations. But they showed it in a cool and novel way.

Another textbook icon goes the way of the dodo. How many of my readers remember the herring gull (illustrated at top, courtesy of Wikipedia) from high school? Comments are welcome.

Comments
Your original challenge was to my conclusion: And the “ordinary mode” of speciation is indistinguishable from that of a ring. This is exactly what one can conclude from the article and Wake would agree as I pointed out.
But not what one can conclude from the OP, which this thread is about. So your conclusion was wrong.wd400
July 21, 2014
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wd400, OK, I figured out the problem. We're arguing about two different definitions of a ring, "classic" and current (which BTW was Wake's original definition). Your original challenge was to my conclusion:
And the “ordinary mode” of speciation is indistinguishable from that of a ring.
This is exactly what one can conclude from the article and Wake would agree as I pointed out. But you weren't arguing that. You were arguing that the debunked “classic” ring definition excludes any periods of isolation. Meanwhile, the extant rings still have incremental variation-—now known to include significant breaks attributed to periods of reproductive isolation---can still interbreed (except at their overlapping ends and possibly at the discovered genetic breaks), and currently maintain continuous gene flow (again possibly not at the genetic breaks). The current rings, which still surround a geographical barrier do indeed include geographic isolation as does “ordinary mode” speciation, which you disagree with given the debunked “classic” definition. I'd like to point out that Dr. Wake did NOT ascribe to the "classic" definition and he's been quoted from his 1997 paper saying that “The history of this complex has probably featured substantial isolation, differentiation, and multiple recontacts.” -QQuerius
July 21, 2014
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I'll ask you again, have you read the OP? Or Coyne's post. The whole point is that the classical examples of ring species are no longer considered ring species in the strictest sense because they've all been shown to include goegraphical isolation. If you want to include geographical isolation within ring species then there is no OP and no thread. Consequently, if you want to make something of their being no known ring species then you necessarily have to limit yourself to the definition under which there are no ring species. In that case, the mode of formation is different and your claim was wrong. It's evident from this whole exchange that you didn't know much about speciation when you made the claim. Why you find it so hard to contemplate the fact you were wrong is beyond me.wd400
July 21, 2014
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wd400 masochistically persists . . . You are so wrong. LOL Here, take a look at this paper co-authored by David Wake in 2012: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7007/10/20
In the mid 20th century, Ernst Mayr and Theodosius Dobzhansky championed the significance of circular overlaps or ring species as the perfect demonstration of speciation, yet in the over 50 years since, only a handful of such taxa are known. We developed a topographic model to evaluate whether the geographic barriers that favor processes leading to ring species are common or rare, and to predict where other candidate ring barriers might be found.
(snip)
The persistence of the central geographic barrier is fundamental for ring diversification because it restricts movement of individuals to the ring distribution, thus promoting non-adaptive divergence through the initial colonization of available habitat, genetic drift of each local population, and limiting gene flow among continuous populations around the ring.
So far, all you've posted is your unsupported opinion. Do yourself a favor and send Dr. Wake an email with your questions. It's listed on his University of California webpage. Maybe you'll listen to him. -QQuerius
July 21, 2014
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What is the ordinary mode of speciation? So called allopatric speciation - in which the initial split between nascent species is caused by geographical isolation. If such a thing existed couldn’t speciation be predicted? I don't see how. But since speciation cannot be predicted doesn’t that call into question the very concept of any ‘ordinary mode’ of speciation? No.wd400
July 21, 2014
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Mung - "What is the ordinary mode of speciation? If such a thing existed couldn’t speciation be predicted? But since speciation cannot be predicted doesn’t that call into question the very concept of any ‘ordinary mode’ of speciation? ----------- Great questions, but don't expect to much of an intelligent response which will be incoherent anyway and never come close to dealing with the real world we observe. Probably a great research paper which hits close to home on this was from the Max Planck Institute's Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig who wrote a piece which dealt with the concept of the "Law of Recurrent Variation" http://www.weloennig.de/Loennig-Long-Version-of-Law-of-Recurrent-Variation.pdf http://weloennig.de/ShortVersionofMutationsLawof_2006.pdf Mostly what's being discussed here is not so much new species, but simple variation of the same kind or type of organism which simply reaches it's limits of change. I think this is the same for epigenetics which is becoming more and more looked into and I find fascinating. But the dogma being debated is so entrenched that this muddled or fuzzied term "speciation" must be invoked because the religious orthodoxy that presently runs the Scientific world demands it. Ultimately for most of these religiously obsessed ideologues, absolutely nothing will shake their faith, which generally is immune to evidence anyway. For me the "Law of recurrent Variation" beautifully explains Darwin's Finches, Blind Cave Fish, Mexican Cave Scorpions, and the religious failure of Ring Species which have always been highlighted as those iconic religious examples held up as proof of Darwinism and the religiosity many modern day intellects have chosen to clasped onto.DavidD
July 21, 2014
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wd400;
If yuo can point out where Wake claims Ensatina is an example of the ordinary mode of speciation I’d be obliged.
What is the ordinary mode of speciation? If such a thing existed couldn't speciation be predicted? But since speciation cannot be predicted doesn't that call into question the very concept of any 'ordinary mode' of speciation?Mung
July 20, 2014
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If yuo can point out where Wake claims Ensatina is an example of the ordinary mode of speciation I'd be obliged. And you might want to read the OP. Ensatina is no longer considered a ring species in the strictest sense. You know why, because you can distinguish ring species formation from the ordinary mode due to the presence of isolation:
Except it’s wrong. That is, it’s not a ring species in the classical sense. Why not? Because genetic studies, done by both Dick Highton at Maryland and then by Wake and his colleagues themselves (references below) also showed that in places around the ring there were sharp genetic breaks, suggesting not a process of continuous gene flow over the 5-10 million years it took to close the ring, but sporadic geographic breaks in the ring, so that the salamanders could differentiate without pesky gene flow from adjacent populations. Some adjacent populations showed very sharp genetic differentiation, implying geographic isolation in the past (Continuous gene flow would not produce such “breaks”.) Finally, geologic work has shown that it is very unlikely that there were two unbroken forest corridors for those millions of years required to produce a ring. Based on these results, everyone has now concluded that the formation of this “ring” involved sporadic and important episodes of geographic isolation between populations, so it’s not the classic “continuous gene flow” scenario involved in making a ring species
wd400
July 20, 2014
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wd400, Oh, so it's about isolation, after all. Did you even look at the map Dr. Wake provided? Dr. Wake uses ring species as a "beautiful example" of speciation---which according to you requires isolation and cessetion of gene flow, and which did NOT occur with Ensatina.
And if even if there was some contradiction, a little basic research would make it clear that indeed:
Some contradiction? Ya think? Dr. Wake spent 20 years researching Ensatina, which I'd venture is more than "a little basic research." Look, as I said, it's easy. All you need to do is choke out the words, "Yeah, I guess I see your point," I will thank you, and we can move on. -QQuerius
July 20, 2014
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Indeed, anyone that reads these posts can make their own judgement. If they know even the first thing about biology they'll be aware isolation is what happens when there is no gene flow (be that geographic, temporal or perhaps fine scale spatial in nature). If they posess basic recomprehension they'll see nothing in Wakes' comment to contradict the distinction. And if even if there was some contradiction, a little basic research would make it clear that indeed: A includes geographic isolation B requires there be no geographic isolation A is therefore distinguishable from B.wd400
July 20, 2014
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wd400, No, anyone can go back and read the posts to confirm that the issue was about isolation in regards to creating a non-existent distinction between ring species and "ordinary mode" of speciation. As you put it (A is ordinary speciation, B is a ring):
A includes geographic isolation B requires there be no geographic isolation A is therefore distinguishable from B.
Again, here's the quote from David Wake that destroyed your fallacious position:
Ring species, says biologist David Wake, who has studied Ensatina for more than 20 years, are a beautiful example of species formation in action. “All of the intermediate steps, normally missing, have been preserved, and that is what makes it so fascinating.”
Or perhaps Dr. Wade also doesn't understand ring species. LOL -QQuerius
July 20, 2014
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Querius, Continuous gene flow has never been the issue I don't even... Have you read the OP? or the post it links to? The reason that Coyne can conclude that there are no ring species is because all the classic examples have been shown to fail the criterion that they must have continuous gene flow. If we are to conclude anything from this result is has to do with continuous gene flow, because that's what the result is about. The whole point of the studies is to use the fact that the process that generates a ring species and the ordinary speciation process are distinguishable to show that the classic examples of rings species are not in fact ring species. It may be time to take your own advice, and simply admit you were wrong.wd400
July 20, 2014
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wd400, Continuous gene flow has never been the issue. And what about David Wake? Does he also not grasp ring species? Read the quote I provided you in 48 again. Slowly. -QQuerius
July 20, 2014
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Novel definitions? Lol. That ring species require continuous gene flow is the whole point of this thread, if that wasn't a requirement then most of teh classic species would remain ring species. The geographic isolation is part of the ordinary mode of speciation has been orthodoxy since the 1940s, and remains so. That you evidently got 48 comments into this thread without grasping these points shows how qualified you to make the declreation about how "indistinguishable" ring species formation and the ordinary mode of speciation is.wd400
July 20, 2014
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wd400, To attempt to summarize your position . . . "Apparent" ring species are differentiated from true ring species (which seem to be in short supply) by the presence of some type of isolation, geographic or temporal. Presumably, a certain level of sexual inconvenience pushes a true ring species into an apparent one. Linear speciation is indeed linear but not an example of "ordinary mode" speciation because of gene flow. Presumably, gene flow stops as soon as speciation occurs or perhaps it's vice versa. And you do agree that the ring dynamics of my interracial neighborhood analogy seems unlikely but bears no resemblence to speciation in spite of the gene flow, I'd assume because "races" (which don't really exist) are not species. Well, I'm afraid your novel definitions have led you far astray of mainstream scientific opinion. For example, we read at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/05/2/l_052_05.html
Ring species, says biologist David Wake, who has studied Ensatina for more than 20 years, are a beautiful example of species formation in action. "All of the intermediate steps, normally missing, have been preserved, and that is what makes it so fascinating."
Dr. Wake's statement position is entirely compatible with my statement, especially about ring species being a beautiful example of species formation. In contrast, his statement is not at all compatible with your definitions. His field is Integrative Biology and he teaches at the University of California at Berkeley. Sorry, but I'd suggest that you get in touch with him to avoid further embarrassment. -QQuerius
July 19, 2014
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I'll put the last bit another way: A plain reading of your neighbour example seems unlikely, but does bare resemblance to any theory of speciation that I know ofwd400
July 19, 2014
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One concludes that the apparent ring species are not ring species, and in fact arose by the ordinary mode of speciation. I don't how much clearer I can make this In 26 you replied to Piotr's comment Anyway, ring species are not the ordinary mode of speciation. by saying The “ordinary mode” of speciation is indistinguishable from that of a ring.. You were wrong, because they are distinguishable. Indeed these papers are about making that distinction. Indeed the linear example is linear, but not an example of the ordinary mode of speciation (because of the continuous gene flow). As I said previously, I cannot parse what you are trying to say in your 'interracial neighbourhood' example, let alone tell what relevance it may have to speciation.wd400
July 19, 2014
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wd400, you wrote in 40 that
These papers have shown that hasn’t happened, and classic ‘ring’ species include geographic isolation between populations.
Therefore A includes geographic isolation B includes geographic isolation And one concludes . . . And what about the A-B-C gene flow? Linear, right? And what about the interracial neighborhood example? Not very likely, right? Why do you keep arguing? -QQuerius
July 19, 2014
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And how, pray tell, is that “obvious” A includes geographic isolation B requires there be no geographic isolation A is therefore distinguishable from B. That's pretty obvious, no? In replying to Piotr's comment that ring species are not the ordinary mode of speciation, you claimed ring species and ordinary mode where indistinguishable.wd400
July 19, 2014
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wd400, You know, at this point, a simple "Yeah, I see your point," would be a lot easier than continuing to struggle. It's healthy and liberating. I won't hold it against you. ;-) I've had this same experience regarding a point on saber-toothed cats. I'll tell you about it if you're interested. -QQuerius
July 19, 2014
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wd400 first said,
The ordinary mode of speciation includes geographic (or perhaps temporal or fine scale spatial) isolation between populations. Ring species would require there to be no such isolation.
And then continued with
These papers have shown that hasn’t happened, and classic ‘ring’ species include geographic isolation between populations.
Do you see the problem here? Both "the normal mode of speciation" and "classic 'ring' species" seem to require geographic isolation.
From that it should be obvious that the ordinary mode of speciation is quite distinguishable from what happens in ring species
And how, pray tell, is that "obvious"? C'mon, why do you subject yourself to so much punishment? The A-B-C gene flow posited by Moose Dr is not a ring, but rather a linear gene flow compatible with classic Darwinism, a point that I'm surprised you missed. The sexy interracial ring scenario that I posited, which you didn't address, would indeed be a ring, but without some form of isolation is highly unlikely. Methinks I'm not the one who's confused. ;-) -QQuerius
July 19, 2014
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Moose Dr, The scenario "A mates with B, B with C but A not with C" isn't what has been ruled out in these studies, is that A-B-C are connected by continuous gene flow.wd400
July 19, 2014
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Querius, You are... confused. I can't parse your questions, let alone answer them, so let's try again. The normal mode of speciation requires geographic (or similar) isolation. Unless there is some barrier to gene flow between nascent spceies it's very hard for incompatibilities to arise. Once populations are isolated, changes in one population can't make it to the next and thus drift or selection can create incompatabilites. Using the most strict definition of a ring species (the one Coyne is talking about), the populations in the ring have to be connected by continuous gene-flow from one end to the other. These papers have shown that hasn't happened, and classic 'ring' species include geographic isolation between populations. From that it should be obvious that the ordinary mode of speciation is quite distinguishable from what happens in ring species (that's what these papers show!). So it seems you were mistaken, unless you wish to clarify your statement.wd400
July 19, 2014
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Well, it made me take a cold shower.Mung
July 18, 2014
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Moose Dr and Mung, Dang, you beat me to the punch! Not surprising though, this was just too easy! LOL -QQuerius
July 18, 2014
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Really, wd400? Where did I say I have a distaste for folks that [sic] treat their own assertions as truth? In 33, you'll notice that I said that some people "treat their own assertions as conclusive evidence." There's a big difference. Of course, I believe my own assertions. Do you believe your own assertions? Does anyone here not believe their own assertions? But I'm not pompous enough to suggest that my belief consitutes evidence. LOL In 26, I said
And the “ordinary mode” of speciation is indistinguishable from that of a ring.
So, which of those words did you not understand? Apparently you disagree, which is puzzling since you're asking me to explain what I meant. But then you went on to say
Ring species would require there to be no such isolation.
Fascinating. Do you have an example of how variation over time is caused by isolation rather than genetic drift? Conversely, how can drift result in a ring with colocated organisms in the time and space dimensions when they have unrestricted sexual access to each other? Putting it in human terms, you'd have to have an integrated neighborhood where Africans think Latinos and Asians are also hot (but not Caucasians), Latinos think that Africans and Caucasians are also hot (but not Asians), Caucasians think Latinos and Asians are also hot (but not Africans), and Asians think Caucasians and Africans are also hot (but not Latinos). Actually that sounds kinda interesting, but I don't think it works like that. ;-) -QQuerius
July 18, 2014
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wd400:
Can you explain why “Darwinism, of necessity I think, predicts ring species” and what you mean by Darwinism in this case?
I have a better idea. Let's pretend that Darwinists never existed, and that these Darwinists who never existed never used "ring species" as evidence for evolution. The alternative seems to be that the claim that "ring species" provide evidence for Darwinian evolution is fraudulent.Mung
July 18, 2014
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WD400, I have found the wikipedia page on ring species to be quite informative. It says, for instance: Richard Dawkins observes that ring species "are only showing us in the spatial dimension something that must always happen in the time dimension."[1] This would be rather clear support of Querius' conjecture. The general phenomenon: A mates with B, B with C but A not with C is a phase that of necessity must be achieved to produce speciation (inability to cross-breed). The wikipedia article also says, "Ring species provide important evidence of evolution in that they illustrate what happens over time as populations genetically diverge" An absolute void of ring species is strong implication that maybe the standard model is in error regarding speciation.Moose Dr
July 18, 2014
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So, querius, can you explain what you meant when you said the ordinary mode of speciation is indistinguishable from that of a ring? Given your distaste for folks that treat their own assertations as truth I'm sure you'll be able to expand?wd400
July 18, 2014
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DavidD, Yes. Sadly it's true. The thinking of a lot of people includes unstated assumptions, ideological bias, complexities that they mastered but are now obsolescent, two sets of moral systems (one public, one private), and an unwillingness to explore certain paths. A lot of IDers, myself included, would have no trouble accepting an evolutionary mechanism. I don't. My rejection is not based on theological grounds, but rather because it's just lousy 19th-century science (mostly philosophical model building, wild speculation, cherry picked data, and massive rationalization). Then there's a more nepharious genre. For example, some who try to discredit ID will question definitions, create a new ones, manufacture naunces, duck the issue, treat their own assertions as conclusive evidence, feign ignorance (as in, "I'm a PhD and I have no idea what you're talking about"), ignore, downplay, or disparage significant breakthroughs, and even name calling (as does professor Moran, for example). For many professionals who are no longer students overwhelmed by blind admiration or playing sycophant, these techniques are embarrassingly transparent, and they hinder scientific progress. And that's also why I sometimes provide a link to Monty Python's famous Dead Parrot skit, which they don't recognize as such a good fit to Darwinism. -QQuerius
July 18, 2014
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