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Jerry Coyne is already mad at Marcos Eberlin


As we’ve explained, ID-friendly Brazilian scientist Marcos Eberlin, author of Foresight: How the Chemistry of Life Reveals Planning and Purpose, shouldn’t exist. He admits that. And wouldn;t you know, Darwinian evolutionary biologist Jerry Coyne is not a fan either: The topic turns on the appendix:

The question remains, however, whether the appendix is a vestigial organ—whether it is the remnant of a caecal pouch for digestion found in some of our relatives (some herbivores have pouches rather than an appendix). The important thing here is that vestigial organs can assume a new function. Despite that function, organs like the appendix could still be reduced remnants of a feature that once had a different (and useful) function, and thus, despite their new function, still serve as evidence for evolution. (There are, of course, many vestigial features that have no known function at all, like the muscles in human ears that can move them about or the “snake limbs” pictured below.) Jerry Coyne, “Why Evolution Is True” at Why Evolution Is True

Jerry will never be short of an explanation, no matter what the circumstance.

Hat tip: Pos-darwinista

See also: Marcos Eberlin shouldn’t exist You’d never guess from his career that thinking the universe shows evidence of design would ruin science. How did he escape Darwin’s thugs?


Jerry Coyne blocked on WordPress in Pakistan. It’s somewhat like blaspheming against Darwin by airing doubts about his theories in the American school system. But in Pakistan, the death penalty is involved.

Maybe biologist JC and his comrades could provide comprehensively coherent explanations for the discoveries described in the papers quoted in previous posts in this thread? How could all that stuff arise to begin with? Please provide as many details as required in order to cover all potential questions. Thanks OLV
Patterning in plants relies on oriented cell divisions and acquisition of specific cell identities. Plants regularly endure wounds caused by abiotic or biotic environmental stimuli and have developed extraordinary abilities to restore their tissues after injuries. Specifically, the cells adjacent to the inner side of the injury re-activated their stem cell transcriptional programs. They accelerated their progression through cell cycle, coordinately changed the cell division orientation, and ultimately acquired de novo the correct cell fates to replace missing cells. These observations highlight existence of unknown intercellular positional signaling and demonstrate the capability of specified cells to re-acquire stem cell programs as a crucial part of the plant-specific mechanism of wound healing. Re-activation of Stem Cell Pathways for Pattern Restoration in Plant Wound Healing Cell. 2019 May 2; 177(4): 957–969.e13. doi: 10.1016/j.cell.2019.04.015 PMCID: PMC6506278 PMID: 31051107 Petra Marhava,1,2,4 Lukas Hoermayer,1,4 Saiko Yoshida,1,3,4 Peter Marhavý,1,2 Eva Benková,1 and Ji?í Friml1,5,? OLV
Virtually every mammalian cell contains mitochondria, which are classically recognized as key generators of cellular energy in the form of adenosine triphosphate (ATP) (99). In addition, mitochondria constitute an integral part of the mechanisms that control cell functioning and survival. The nuclear DNA (nDNA) encodes the large majority of mitochondrial proteins, which are synthesized in the cytosol and imported into the mitochondrion. This import is carried out by a dedicated machinery of protein translocases in the mitochondrial outer membrane (TOM) and inner membrane (TIM), Currently, a comprehensive understanding of mitochondrial morphofunction is still lacking, and obtaining this information requires quantitative information at the level of individual mitochondria within single living cells. In addition, more detailed insights are required into how the volume and complex nanoarchitecture of the mitochondrion impacts its biochemistry. It is expected that a detailed understanding of mitochondrial morphofunction will significantly contribute to deciphering: (i) why individual mitochondria display heterogeneous (ultra)structural and functional properties between and within cells, (ii) how mitochondrial (ultra)structure affects mitochondrial and cellular bioreactions and therefore mitochondrial and cellular functioning, (iii) how exogenous manipulation of mitochondrial (ultra)structure can be used to “control” mitochondrial function, and (iv) whether such manipulation is therapeutically relevant in human diseases with disturbed mitochondrial morphofunction. Mitochondrial Morphofunction in Mammalian Cells Antioxid Redox Signal. 2019 Jun 20; 30(18): 2066–2109. Published online 2019 May 3. doi: 10.1089/ars.2018.7534 PMCID: PMC6529879 PMID: 30266077 Elianne P. Bulthuis,1 Merel J.W. Adjobo-Hermans,1 Peter H.G.M. Willems,1 and Werner J.H. Koopman1 ... OLV
Mitochondria supply cells with energy in the form of ATP, guide apoptosis, and contribute to calcium buffering and reactive oxygen species production. To support these diverse functions, mitochondria form an extensive network with smaller clusters that are able to move along microtubules aided by motor proteins. Mitochondria are also associated with the actin network, which is involved in cellular responses to various mechanical factors. Regulation of Mitochondrial Structure and Dynamics by the Cytoskeleton and Mechanical Factors Int J Mol Sci. 2017 Aug; 18(8): 1812. Published online 2017 Aug 21. doi: 10.3390/ijms18081812 PMCID: PMC5578198 PMID: 28825689 Erzsébet Bartolák-Suki,1,* Jasmin Imsirovic,1 Yuichiro Nishibori,1,2 Ramaswamy Krishnan,3 and Béla Suki OLV
“This suggests a complex network for signal transmission and analysis that permits rich information dynamics that likely augments and modifies the more well-known and studied information found molecular pathways (e.g. the MAPK pathway) that carry information following ligand binding to a membrane receptor to the nucelus.” https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-42343-2 OLV
Can we leave that poor JC alone? He’s got enough dealing with the undeniable fact that the news coming from research these days don’t look encouraging to his worldview. And the forecast indicates that we ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Hopefully he’ll wake up and smell the coffee soon. OLV
What is Coyne’s logic here?,,,
Hey, hey, there John, take it easy on Coyne's "logic" there! He's having a rough enough time figuring out if he even exists or not! So let's not pick on those who are logically challenged shall we? :)
Ross Douthat Is On Another Erroneous Rampage Against Secularism – Jerry Coyne – December 26, 2013 Excerpt: “many (but not all) of us accept the notion that our sense of self is a neuronal illusion.” Jerry Coyne – Professor of Evolutionary Biology – Atheist https://newrepublic.com/article/116047/ross-douthat-wrong-about-secularism-and-ethics The Confidence of Jerry Coyne - Ross Douthat - January 6, 2014 Excerpt: But then halfway through this peroration, we have as an aside the confession (by Coyne) that yes, okay, it’s quite possible given materialist premises that “our sense of self is a neuronal illusion.” At which point the entire edifice suddenly looks terribly wobbly — because who, exactly, is doing all of this forging and shaping and purpose-creating if Jerry Coyne, as I understand him (and I assume he understands himself) quite possibly does not actually exist at all? The theme of his argument is the crucial importance of human agency under eliminative materialism, but if under materialist premises the actual agent is quite possibly a fiction, then who exactly is this I who “reads” and “learns” and “teaches,” and why in the universe’s name should my illusory self believe Coyne’s bold proclamation that his illusory self’s purposes are somehow “real” and worthy of devotion and pursuit? (Let alone that they’re morally significant: But more on that below.) Prometheus cannot be at once unbound and unreal; the human will cannot be simultaneously triumphant and imaginary. http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/06/the-confidence-of-jerry-coyne/?_r=0
What is Coyne’s logic here? Because we discovered a function for what we once believed was a vestigial organ (the appendix) which, in turn, we believed had no function because it lost its function that doesn’t rule out possibility that other vestigial organs still exist. Okay, but that raises the question is how do we know that those so-called vestigial organs don’t have any function? In other words, how do we know what we don’t know? It seems to me for people like Coyne it’s not really a matter of knowing but of believing. Because he believes that we are all the result of a mindless, purposeless evolutionary process vestigial organs must exist. Ironically this has some striking parallels to the “fideistic” and dogmatic thinking we find among religious fundamentalists. Is Jerry an atheistic, materialistic fundamentalist? john_a_designer
From the paper quoted @13: “Appendicitis is one of the most common acute abdominal diagnoses and mainly results from bacterial infection rather than obstructions within the organ [22]. Appendicitis is a clinical emergency for which surgery remains the gold standard of treatment. Similar to our results, appendectomy is associated with various human diseases [16–21]; however, the mechanism of their associations is largely unknown. Some possible explanations might address their correlations. First, the appendix is considered a safe house to shelter the commensal intestinal flora through biofilm formation. Second, the appendix is considered part of the immune system because of its abundant gut-associated lymphoid tissue. As a result, appendectomy and prophylactic antibiotics given before appendectomy surgery may disrupt gut microbiota configurations, subsequently supporting diabetes development. ” “A recent study revealed that the human appendix accommodates a wealth of microbiota different from other niches and shows substantial diversity“ “the appendiceal microbiota have been recognized as an innovate actor capable of modulating the host metabolism through building the appendiceal immune function “ “appendectomy increases the risk of type 2 DM, particularly when performed in patients before middle age.” “the appendix protects against type 2 DM development before middle age. Further studies should be performed to clarify the role of appendectomy in the development of diabetes.” ... OLV
Would JC get the point now or additional arguments are required to persuade the guy? I think the recent paper by the Taiwanese scientists quoted at 13 should suffice, but JC might require more data before he can consider admitting that he was wrong, again. :) I understand that it could be painful to realize that one has been wrong for so long believing a dogma that was considered solid like a rock until it was debunked by recent research discoveries. That’s why I feel sorry for JC and his comrades. But the sooner he wakes up and smells the flowers, the better for him. OLV
“The human appendix has more recently been recognized as a microbial reservoir for repopulating the gastrointestinal tract and an important part of the immune system.” “appendectomy increases type 2 diabetes risk, particularly when performed prior to middle age.” “Insulin resistance, the core defect of metabolic diseases, is linked to low-grade inflammation; however, its detailed molecular mechanism remains to be determined. Recent studies have suggested that the gut microbiota play a fundamental role in metabolic disease development by modifying energy homeostasis” “Despite long being considered an evolutionary vestigial organ, the human appendix has more recently been recognized as an important part of the immune system. Furthermore, the human appendix may function as a “safe house” to preserve and protect commensal bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract via immune-mediated biofilm formation [12–15]. Consequently, appendectomy may change the gut microbiota composition and immune function, subsequently promoting the emergence of various inflammatory diseases, including colon cancer, Crohn’s disease, and rheumatoid arthritis” Impact of age at appendectomy on development of type 2 diabetes: A population-based cohort study PLoS One. 2018; 13(10): e0205502. Published online 2018 Oct 16. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0205502 PMCID: PMC6191136 PMID: 30325958 OLV
“The human gastrointestinal tract carries about 1014 microbes. The genetic content of these microbial communities is approximately 100 times greater than seen in human genes (Human microbiome project consortium 2012). They co-exist with their hosts as a super-organism in a mutualistic manner and play fundamental roles in human health and disease. For example, emerging evidence shows that the intestinal microbiota regulates the host’s metabolism and also stimulates and renews epithelial cells. In addition, the intestinal microbiota will influence the development and maturation of the nervous and immune systems (Vrieze et al. 2013; Ursell et al. 2014; Dinan and Cryan 2017; Partida-Rodríguez et al. 2017). In return, individual signature contributes to differences in the gut microbiota. The structure of the gut microbial community changes constantly according to various external variables such as age, sex, stress, probiotic or antibiotic usage and genetic background (Sommer and Bäckhed 2013). “ Altered diversity and composition of the gut microbiome in patients with cervical cancer Zhongqiu Wang,#1 Qingxin Wang,#1 Jing Zhao,#1 Linlin Gong,1 Yan Zhang,2 Xia Wang,3 and Zhiyong Yuan AMB Express. 2019; 9: 40. Published online 2019 Mar 23. doi: 10.1186/s13568-019-0763-z PMCID: PMC6431307 PMID: 30904962 OLV
ET @9 Good point OLV
“The appendix represents quite a mystery. For many years it was believed to be a vestige of our distant ancestors; the trace of a caecum, a part of many animals large intestine. This theory was put forward by Charles Darwin but was mostly refuted in 2013. Another theory claims that the appendix acts as a safe haven for gut bacteria in case of disease; the bacteria could regenerate from this point into the rest of the intestine.” A study to find out correlation between clinical diagnosis and histopathological diagnosis in patients with acute appendicitis undergoing surgical treatment Mohit Jain, Yogesh Kumar Sharma Website: DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.18203/2349-2902.isj20192364 Full text PDF: https://www.ijsurgery.com/index.php/isj/article/download/4117/2912 OLV
Jerry Coyne is so moronic that he doesn't understand that his position doesn't have a mechanism capable of producing the organisms that have alleged vestigial parts- and they can't even account for the existence of those parts. Given starting populations of bacteria the best Jerry can hope for is more bacteria... ET
Here are some papers recommended by the article mentioned @7. A diverse range of human gut bacteria have the potential to metabolise the dietary component gallic acid Appl Environ Microbiol, 2018 Sewage Reflects the Microbiomes of Human Populations MBio, 2015 Health and Disease Imprinted in the Time Variability of the Human Microbiome mSystems, 2017 The microbiome in respiratory medicine: current challenges and future perspectives Rosa Faner et al., European Respiratory Journal, 2017 Potential Role of Intestinal Microbiota in Pathogenesis of Primary Sclerosing Cholangitis PracticeUpdate, 2016 Association of Systemic Antibiotic Treatment of Acne With Skin Microbiota Characteristics Anna L. Chien et al., JAMA Dermatology, 2019 OLV
Here’s a 6-year-old article referenced by JC in his arguments against ID: Microbial Composition of Human Appendices from Patients following Appendectomy Caitriona M. Guinane, Amany Tadrous, Fiona Fouhy, C. Anthony Ryan, Eugene M. Dempsey, Brendan Murphy, Emmet Andrews, Paul D. Cotter, Catherine Stanton, R. Paul Ross Karen Bush, Editor DOI: 10.1128/mBio.00366-12 Here’s a list of papers citing the above article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551545/citedby OLV
UB, Sorry to hear you were kept from joining such a prestigious social club. :) OLV
XD AaronS1978
. Well, to prop up my insignificant persona as an ID combatant, I will tell you that I once announced my joining of Coyne's blog -- so he banned me at the door. No love lost at all. :) Upright BiPed
That was quite eloquent of you:) AaronS1978
. David Berlinski use to make the point that materialists want desperately to fight the battles they’ve already won, not to deal with the wall directly in front of them. For instance, not the sheer vertical face of going from pure dynamics to rate-independent memory in an unbroken functional continuum. Coyne falls into that category with all his might. Everything in biology, including whatever proposed vestigial organs or otherwise, must all be specified among alternatives, or they won’t exist. The system responsible for that, and particularly the well-documented way in which it accomplishes its tasks, is something Ole Jer is just tickled to ignore. Give the man his cape and let him ramble on about nothing, just as happy as he can be. Upright BiPed
Man there’s something about reading Jerry Coyne That makes my salty inner Jew want to rip out of my body and rant. Lewis Black resist the rant resist it!...... must resist.......maybe .......we didn’t.......understand it’s function......resisting........in the first place............arggggghhhhhhh You dumb banana gargling piece of crap! Sorry it slipped out AaronS1978

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