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John Davison challenges PZ Myers to a debate

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This is something I’d pay to see. John Davison received his PhD in biology before Myers was born. Ironically he received it from the same university Myers teaches at today. Unless one counts the decades more experience Davison has as a professor of biology (University of Vermont) then they appear to be evenly matched. We’ll understand if Myers is intimidated by Davison’s greater experience and chickens out. Davison makes the challenge here at the bottom of the page.

I would love to confront him anywhere, with or without his equally deranged cronies – Dawkins and Hitchens. It would be a rout! I can’t even goad them into recognizing my existence. Myers is a cowardly victim, a “prescribed” vendor of hate, the epitome of cultural, moral and ethical evil. There is nothing that can be done for him or for his colleagues and followers. They are “born that way” losers in the lottery of life. Until they are gone they will remain a menace to Western Civilization. Hopefully that won’t take too much longer.

Comments
ftk I'm banned by Myers too. Interesting story. I was commenting at Panda's Thumb on something and Myers thought to condescendingly tell me that the environment contributes information in ontogenesis. I replied that if he was talking about epigenetic factors (outside the DNA) then I knew all about that but if he was talking about information coming from the outside environment he was all wet. I condescendingly described how all the information required to make a chicken is inside the shell of the egg and the environment need provide nothing but warmth as any child who's hatched a chicken egg under a light bulb knows quite well. There are a few exceptions such as the gender of alligators being determined by the incubation temperature of the egg but as a general rule no information is provided by the environment outside the egg. He went apoplectic and started disemvoweling my comments from that point on. Myers can dish it out but he can't take it.DaveScot
February 5, 2008
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From Davison's CV, I'd wager that Myers understands current biology better than Davison. It's not a criticism: it's just what happens when you decide to tilt at windmills for twenty years. (His manifesto doesn't cite any recent biology). He "became an anti-Darwinian around 1984," which seems to be about the time he stopped keeping up with the science too. PZM, whatever his faults, knows the current literature very well.larrynormanfan
February 5, 2008
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I'll read it, Dave. Don't get me wrong...I'd kill to see them debate. I'm just not sure it would stay civil...although, PZ is much more sedate when he's not pounding away at his keyboard. Heck, I'd be more than glad to hand PZ the challenge personally, but the Big A banned me from his den.FtK
February 5, 2008
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DaveScot, "I bet it’s Myers who fires the first broadside when Davison starts asking scientific questions" Judging by the Simmons Meyers debate, Myers will fire the first broadside in his opening remarks.bFast
February 5, 2008
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I personally love Davison's style. He's a gutsy, no-nosense fighter who has absolutely no fear of the enemy. He does not look for their approval nor their acceptance. He kicks them in the gonads every chance he gets. In my opinion, that's what the ID movement needs, people like Davison who are ready to kick ass and take names. It's about time that ID advocates stop kowtowing to a secular and morally bankrupt academia and go it alone. We know what we've got and we should act with confidence. Let them seek our approval and let them fear our disapproval, not the other way around.Mapou
February 5, 2008
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bFast I'm not at all sure it will be a histrionic shouting match but if it is I bet it's Myers who fires the first broadside when Davison starts asking scientific questions Myers can't answer. If it can stay focused on objective science Davison will win. If it becomes a pissing contest it'll be a tie. Either way it'll be worth the cost of the ticket.DaveScot
February 5, 2008
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DaveScot, "Don’t confuse Davison’s personality with his science." I agree with you that Davison has made a significant scientific contribution to ID. I respect his science. That said, his personality, well... Good science or not, this hystrionic shouting match is not worth promoting.bFast
February 5, 2008
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ftk I suggest you carefully read Davison's Evolutionary Manifesto before doubting his scientific acumen. He's certainly a "colorful" character but his take on organic evolution is extraordinary and without the color we've come to expect from his internet persona. He basically believes the best explanation for organic evolution is front-loading, perhaps thousands of times in separate acts of creation based upon non-homlogous development pathways in organisms reputed to have comparatively recent common ancestors, and the mechanism behind descent with modification is chromosomal reorganizations that result in the saltation of new species. Furthermore he states that this is a testable hypothesis as in principle the chromsomal reorganizations can be reversed so that the course of evolution can be run backward in a lab. http://www.uvm.edu/~jdavison/davison-manifesto.html How I happened across it is an interesting story. After a couple of years of digging into the facts and myths surrounding organic evolution I came to believe the best explanation was front loading - an intelligent agency preprogrammed the course of phylogeny into one or more basic forms. I then thought to myself that I couldn't be the first person to arrive at this conclusion so I went googling for scientists who'd written a similar account. In that pursuit I found Davison's Evolutionary Manifesto. To date I consider it the best hypothesis I've seen and it deserves being tested by someone still in a position to do so. DaveScot
February 5, 2008
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John Davison says, at the post Dave Scot linked to:
Besides, Myers is an intellectual coward and won't "debate" anyone of substance.
I heard Myers debated a Fellow of the Discovery Institute on radio the other day. I think there was a posting about it here on UD, but it's not here now. Davison seems to be implying that the Discovery Institute gives Fellowships to people who lack substance. Dave Scot said:
Myers will of course say that Emeritus Professor of Biology John Davison is a crank and therefore beneath Myers’ dignity
To judge by the comment threads at Davison's abandonded blogs, Dave Scot also reckons John Davison is a crank. Now that's a miracle: Myers and Scot agreeing on somethingSemprini
February 5, 2008
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Don't confuse Davison's personality with his science. Many years ago I had a manager in a video electronics shop whose knowledge of electronics was superb but who was a gun carrying biker whose off work activities included trying to get mugged in dark alleys so he could draw a .357 magnum revolver on a knife weilding mugger. He said he loved watching them flee in terror when he put a round through a garbage can in the alley. Curious about the dichotomy I asked "How can someone as intelligent as you be so crazy?" He answered "You don't have to be stupid to be crazy, but it helps." Never confuse stupid with crazy. Myers and Davison are equally crazed and equally well educated in biology. It's a perfect match that I think will be both entertaining and informative. Before questioning Davison's credentials to debate Myers I suggest taking a look at Davison's CV and noting the peer reviewed publication record before he became an anti-Darwinian circa 1984. http://www.uvm.edu/~jdavison/jad-cv.htmlDaveScot
February 5, 2008
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"BTW, has the ambulance service been notified of this debate?" ROTFL... Dave, they're right...it would be a three ring circus with the ebola boys peddling popcorn and beer. That's not to say that I don't enjoy a good circus act now and then...heck, I'd probably be right next to the center ring flirtin' with RTH at intermission. But, I'm really not sure a Davison/Myers debate would be of benefit to either side, though it *would certainly* get a lot of attention... And, yes, medics and the police department would have to be notified far in advance.FtK
February 5, 2008
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Considering how cocky PZ was after his "victory" with Simmons, I would be surprised he would turn this down! BTW, does anyone have a link so I can listen to that previous debate?gore
February 5, 2008
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I'm with you, bFast.larrynormanfan
February 5, 2008
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It’s a match made in heaven - two flaming, militant doctors of biology in basic disagreement with each other over the mechanism behind organic evolution.
If you like cage-fighting, or cock fighting, great. If you expect the cause of intelligent design to be furthered, well, not so great. I would much rather see two level-headed debaters, than two hysterical ranters. BTW, has the ambulance service been notified of this debate?bFast
February 5, 2008
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larrynormanfan Davison is no crank in his area of expertise. Not even close.DaveScot
February 5, 2008
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DaveScot,
Myers will of course say that Emeritus Professor of Biology John Davison is a crank and therefore beneath Myers’ dignity.
Maybe. But the fact remains that Davison is, indeed, a crank. What does ID have to gain by encouraging someone as marginal as him to play a public role?larrynormanfan
February 5, 2008
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bFast I've mocked Myers' hysterics too. It's a match made in heaven - two flaming, militant doctors of biology in basic disagreement with each other over the mechanism behind organic evolution. I doubt Myers will have the stones for it. Myers will of course say that Emeritus Professor of Biology John Davison is a crank and therefore beneath Myers' dignity. We all know the real story. Myers has no dignity and he considers every ID believer, including Geoff Simmons, to be a crank. So he'll lie about why he won't debate Davison. Lying for Darwin is easy for Myers. While I have called Davison many unflattering things I've never questioned his expertise in biology. The man was a bench scientist for decades studying comparative anatomy and one of the first scientists to be "Expelled" for questioning the Darwinian dogma. I learned a lot from him and still consider his views on organic evolution to be the best I've encountered. DaveScot
February 5, 2008
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Oh my. Davison has been kicked off of every forum he has ever been on, and for good reason. He's been kicked off of this forum a couple of times. You, Dave, have mocked his hysterics on a number of occasions. Davison's PEH is an interesting theory, but as a dialoger, as a debater this guy is rediculous. Please don't encourage him.bFast
February 5, 2008
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But how does Davison really feel about Myers?GilDodgen
February 5, 2008
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