John McCain Supports Teaching Intelligent Design

_{February 8, 2008

Intelligent Design}

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A commenter on my previous article asked whether John McCain supports intelligent design or not. After a quick google I can happily say the answer is yes.

McCain sounds like presidential hopeful
By C.J. Karamargin
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 08.24.2005

As the Gallup Poll noted, McCain has a generally consistent conservative voting record but forged a national reputation after a series of notable breaks with fellow Republicans.
On Tuesday, though, he sided with the president on two issues that have made headlines recently: teaching intelligent design in schools and Cindy Sheehan, the grieving mother who has come to personify the anti-war movement.
McCain told the Star that, like Bush, he believes “all points of view” should be available to students studying the origins of mankind.

I wonder what Barack Hussein Obama has to say about Intelligent Design. Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

Comments

larrynormanfan Please, you are embarrassing yourself.toc_{February 9, 2008
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-----larrynormanfan: "I hate abortion. But I also hate this ridiculous Iraq war, and I’m a liberal on issues of poverty and economic policy. If McCain gets elected, abortion continued unabated — guaranteed. So why should I vote for the guy when one of the only issues on which we agree is not something he’s going to do anything about?" The morality of the war is debatable; the morality of partial birth abortion is not debatable. At least that would be the Christian position. Are you sure you are really a Christian? If you are really being sincere, then why don't you vote for Ron Paul, who is against both abortion and the war?StephenB_{February 9, 2008
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Frost122585, larrynormanfan, et al... It's a sad thing I must confess to. I used to be pro war. I defended the Iraq-et war. I used to think CoNN and Faux actually told us the truth. It has only been very recently, since discovering Ron Paul actually, that I realized that I too was one of the brainwashed sheeple being completely controlled by the MSM. I am not yet free I am sure, but I am certainly a lot more free that I was. It actually surprised me, that I am one that has never believed in evolution, nor anthroprogenic global warming, and yet I believed the lies about the war on terror and all sorts of other government propaganda. I am starting to see now how they control us through fear. The war on terror has got to be their most successful ploy so far. Invent an enemy, and then go fight them. How deluded I was. So it's no surprise to me people support McCain. Even here, and I really do mean NO insult, but even here, people are trapped in the same mindset I had just 6 months ago. It's like that scene in the 1st matrix just after Neo had just been freed. Neo and Mophius are in the construct program and Morphius has a long monologue about freeing people's minds, and that many will fight to protect the very system that enslaves them. I was one of those, and the majority still are. It looks like Ron Paul has only a small chance of winning, but I am campaigning hard for him all the same. I believe in his message. I believe the people that reject it are those fighting the very system that enslaves them. I wish we could all reject the media's opinion of this man, and the opinions we have because of what we've been told, and actually investigate Ron Paul ourselves and then get behind his message. There's a reason the MSM fears him so much. He's very much a Morphius trying to free our minds. I am a sheeple no longer. Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vthdr96EDnEGods iPod_{February 9, 2008
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Politics is small potatoes next to the big issues. As a Harpo Marx character puts it in a Larry Norman song:
let the proud but dying nation kiss the last generation it's the year of the pill age of the gland we have landed on the moon but we'll clutter that up soon our sense of freedom's gotten out of hand we kill our children swap our wives we've learned to greet a man with knives we swallow pills in fours and fives our cities look like crumbling hives man does not live he just survives we sleep till he arrives love is a corpse we sit and watch it harden we left it oh so long ago the garden
larrynormanfan_{February 9, 2008
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I hate abortion. But I also hate this ridiculous Iraq war, and I'm a liberal on issues of poverty and economic policy. If McCain gets elected, abortion continued unabated -- guaranteed. So why should I vote for the guy when one of the only issues on which we agree is not something he's going to do anything about?larrynormanfan_{February 9, 2008
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-----larrynormal: "StephenB, I might agree with you if I thought McCain would do anything serious about abortion. But ever since Reagan, supposedly pro-life presidents have played the Christian community like a fiddle, and then done nothing significant about it. (I include here the so-called partial-birth abortion ban, designed more to keep the pro-life community on its side than to do anything to reduce actual abortions in America.)" Let me get this straight. You are unhappy with conservatives who have not fought hard enough for pro-life causes, so you are going to respond by voting for an enthusiastic advocate of partial birth abortion?StephenB_{February 9, 2008
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Mitt Romney is actually proof of computer-generated artificial life. :-) He also demonstrates how hard it is to roll out a new version of software that's compatible with the old version, especially when the new version looks completely different once you open the box.larrynormanfan_{February 9, 2008
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Frost: ......the media gave this man (McCain) billions of dollars in air time- if you compared how much time he got then Romney or any other candidate- it was startling- and in case you haven’t noticed Huckabee use to get a lot of time early on now he gets no time at all because the media was simply pumping him up to take votes away from Romney who was close to McCain in Florid and California- which Romney would have won Florida had Huckabee (who has no chance of winning and never did) gotten out of the race-" There can be no doubt that the media used exactly this kind of strategy to get Romney out of the race. They helped McCain drop his anti-Romney bomb just a day or so before the Florida primaries knowing that the winner of that state would get the big prize. I am also convinced that Huckabee and McCain put a little backroom deal together so Huckabee could siphon votes away from Romney. Take any of those three factors out and Romney would have been the next president of the United States. Now we are guaranteed to get another empty suit or (skirt) for president. This is democracy?StephenB_{February 9, 2008
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Foxfier, I've spent too much energy on this minor issue, and probably gotten too worked up about. But no, I don't think people here will associate Obama with Islam simply because DaveScot keeps bringing up his middle name. People here seem pretty informed politically and not likely to be swayed by DaveScot's crude rhetorical theater. But I do think the association works on a national level, unconsiously, in the way that advertising works: by creating associations that influence a person positively ("that car = sexy") or negatively ("that candidate = evil Middle Eastern dictator"). DaveScot enables and furthers that low-road tactic. StephenB, I might agree with you if I thought McCain would do anything serious about abortion. But ever since Reagan, supposedly pro-life presidents have played the Christian community like a fiddle, and then done nothing significant about it. (I include here the so-called partial-birth abortion ban, designed more to keep the pro-life community on its side than to do anything to reduce actual abortions in America.)larrynormanfan_{February 9, 2008
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PannenbergOmega said, "
I strongly disagree with you. McCain is potentially a great friend of ID. If he didn’t support it, he wouldn’t have said he did. McCain is honest (a straight talker), and willing to take a position he feels is right. Even if it is unpopular.
I’m sorry but you are an extremely naive person if you believe than ANY politician would only say things that they believe- if they did they would never get elected much less get anything done in congress- To debunk your claim that John is a straight talker and all of that total BS that the media has invented to brain wash the sheep- John McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts but now says he wants to make them permanent- When asked why he didn’t' vote for them the first time around he said that was because there wasn't spending cuts to go along with the tax cuts- yet today we have a big deficit and when the tax cuts were originally voted on there was a balanced budget!!! So he either thinks that he can get budget cuts this time around which is impossible with the war and a democrat controlled congress or he is lying- The truth is Mr. straight talk is Mr. BS and a liar (and that’s not an opinion it’s a fact) and once he wins the nomination and its just him and Hillary you can bet that the media wont be talking about him nicely any more- the media gave this man billions of dollars in air time- if you compared how much time he got then Romney or any other candidate- it was startling- and in case you haven’t noticed Huckabee use to get a lot of time early on now he gets no time at all because the media was simply pumping him up to take votes away from Romney who was close to McCain in Florid and California- which Romney would have won Florida had Huckabee (who has no chance of winning and never did) gotten out of the race- McCain is a media creation and a liar please wake up- Because we don’t have a Good VS evil thing with Romney standing next to Hillary and speaking truth to her disgraceful lies- Hillary WILL be the next president- -I horrifyingly guarantee it-- And this is the real straight talk.Frost122585_{February 9, 2008
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----larrynormanfan, “Routinely repeating Obama’s middle name despite his own public usage appeals to our base hatreds.” So, tell me Larry. Do you like Obama well enough to vote for him? If so, how do you reconcile your Christianity with Obama's enthusiastic support of partial birth abortion. Notice, by the way, I didn't use his middle name.StephenB_{February 9, 2008
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I ASSURE YOU ALL THAT JOHN MCCAIN WOULD NEVER SUPPORT INTELLIGENT DESIGN- This man is the biggest fraud every to run for president except those other 2 dangerous buffoons running on the other side- He passed McCain Feingold which unconstitutionally limits people's free speech- he says that he wants to make George Bushes tax cuts permanent except that he voted against them- He wants to have strict enforcement of our immigration laws- except he doesn’t because he wants amnesty for all illegals- He claims to be pro-life but tried to block the pro-life groups from running TV ads- The list is endless and this man is not what his mouth speaks- John McCain is a liar don’t believe him- Although i admit he is better for ID then Clinton and Obama who would probably try to ban it from book stores if they could.Frost122585_{February 9, 2008
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Larry, based off of this conversation, I think you know a thing or two about being a professional jackass-- you just can't find anyone to pay you for it. Frankly, the idea of you questioning the civility of *anyone* right now is rather amusing. I happen to find it perfectly relevant to be reminded that Barry (the name he went by as a child) has the background he does. If I did not? Big whoop. Same way I didn't blow up when folks kept referring to Kerry by his naval rank. Why? Because I don't think everyone else is an idiot; thus I believe that most folks will take the information for what it is actually worth. (When you add the unchanged middle name to the refusal to wear a flag pin--as is the norm--and refusal to put his hand over his heart during the pledge, it is part of a pattern that a goodly number do not like.) The force of your objection implies that you both believe that using Obama's middle name will be effective, and you disagree with the outcome.Foxfier_{February 9, 2008
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Thanks for the heads up, DaveScot. Up until I read this I was a fence sitting independent. Now that I know McCain supports teaching ID in public classrooms I'd definitely not be voting Republican. Science education is an important issue to me. The US is fast falling in the ranks of science and technology education and literacy amongst industrialize countries. We need to give out children the same good scientific foundations given to those in the countries which we we are in competition if we are to have any chance of staying relevant in the world of science and technology. The more and more we teach our kids to look up and imagine a designer they will develop less and less critical thinking and logic skills and their future jobs will be lost to foreign competition.Aaron_{February 9, 2008
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larrynormanfan, "Routinely repeating Obama’s middle name despite his own public usage appeals to our base hatreds." Here Here! I'm with you that Obama's unfortunate middle name in light of modern history is painfully irrelavent and prejorative.bFast_{February 9, 2008
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Stuart, Do I really need to run though this with you? Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon all used their middle names in their public life. Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton did not. Thus it is rare to see "James Earl Carter" or "William Jefferson Clinton" in print. It's just common courtesy. DaveScot knows that and so -- I imagine -- do you. As for George H. W. Bush, he only started using his middle initials when his son became a national figure. (I'd want to avoid confusion too, if George W Bush were any relation of mine.) I seriously doubt you'd feel the same way if John McCain's middle name were "Stalin" and the same thing happened to him. Give me a break. Routinely repeating Obama's middle name despite his own public usage appeals to our base hatreds. Plain and simple. As you strike me as pretty smart, I'm surprised you can't see that. Or maybe you're just playing the innocent.larrynormanfan_{February 9, 2008
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"Barack Obama’s middle name does not suggest anything true or even debatable about the man." So, his middle name is evil or embarrasing and must never be mentioned? It's OK to say John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Lyndon Baines Johnson, Richard Milhouse Nixon, George Herbert Walker Bush, etc. but the "H" middle name cannot be used? Interesting. Obama is likely to be elected, and it will be even more interesting to see all the other speech codes that will be put in place.StuartHarris_{February 9, 2008
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Also, both "Shrub" and "Slick Willy" are meaningful. "Slick Willy" points toward Clinton's slickness and his promiscuousness -- both aspects of his behavior. "Shrub" points the complicated relationship of GWB to his father. He's a "smaller Bush." Barack Obama's middle name does not suggest anything true or even debatable about the man. In fact, it is used to suggest something demonstrably false. It's used in the service of a sleazy false rumor industry.larrynormanfan_{February 9, 2008
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DaveScot, "Shrub" is obviously a nickname, as is "Slick Willy." Both are better, by their honesty, than your repeated use of Obama's middle name, which insinuates under the cover of objectivity. And of course, as you have demonstrated, changes of name are also "fair game for political discourse" -- fairer, I'd say, that what you've done here with Obama. Obama didn't choose his middle name, and it says nothing about how he'd govern. LNFlarrynormanfan_{February 9, 2008
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Larry I question your question of my civility. If I referred to President George W. Bush, which is his proper title, by any other name I doubt you'd make any objection. And by the way, calling Rush Limbaugh a jackass is hardly an example of civil speech. Your double standard is showing. Better tuck that in as it's rather unbecoming. Did you ever find objection to, for instance, beloved left political columnist Molly Ivins calling President Bush "Shrub Bush"? I didn't. Affectionate handles like that are part and parcel of the political discourse in America. Politicians might be held to a higher standard but the electorate is not. Get over it. If Barack Hussein Obama wants to avoid mention of his legal middle name then he can easily change it. The fact is he didn't so it's totally fair game for political discourse. DaveScot_{February 9, 2008
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I've never questioned your right to speak. I've questioned your civility. "Slick Willy" was pushed by Rush Limbaugh, who is a professional jackass and demagogue. Two additional mistakes, one yours and one mine. First yours: I didn't say McCain "does not supporting teaching ID in public schools." I said he didn't support it being taught "in science classes." Next mine: he was actually referring to creationism rather than ID, as here:
"Should it be taught as a science class? Probably not."
larrynormanfan_{February 9, 2008
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larry You’re violating a basic rule of civility in political life, which is that politicians should be referred to by the name they use in public life. If I was a politician that might be relevant but I'm not so I have no duty to obey any unwritten rules of political discourse between politicians. While there was probably no senator who referred to President Clinton as "Slick Willy" it was a household word for everyone else. The first amendment guarantees us the right to do this. You do believe in freedom of speech don't you, Larry? You don't have to believe in it of course but it remains a basic civil right whether you do or not. By the way, do you have link documenting your claim that John McCain (not his staff who might have said something to that effect in way of damage control) does not support teaching ID in public schools? As a matter of fact I did look into before making this post and while McCain's PR staff tried to undo what he said, just as Bush's staff did, I found no record of McCain himself backing away from it. This, from 2006, is the most I could find McCain saying in clarification: “I think Americans should be exposed to every point of view,” he said. “I happen to believe in evolution…I respect those who think the world was created in seven days. Should it be taught as a science class? Probably not.“ Right. Young Earth Creationism should not be taught in a science class. I totally agree. I happen to believe in evolution too over the course of hundreds of millions or billions of years. I don't believe that chance & necessity is what drove the major changes in the course of evolution. I disbelieve the neo-Darwinian explanation for organic evolution. Intelligent Design is not 7-day creation science. But even that's not the heart of my complaint. The neo-Darwinian theory can't even be criticized in a public school. The school board in Cobb County, Georgia made no mention whatsoever of intelligent design. They put a sticker in a new biology textbook they adopted, which textbook for the first time in Cobb County schools included the neo-Darwinian evolution narrative, which read:
This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully, and critically considered.
This was ruled unconstitutional in a federal circuit court. THAT is what really lights my fire. Not only can't intelligent design even be mention, you can't even hint in a stupid disclaimer in a textbook that neo-Darwinian evolution is not a fact and that students should study it carefully, critically, with an open mind. Good grief man, studying things carefully, critically, with an open mind is the very thing science is all about! Who's destroying science, ID proponents or those that refuse to let scientific theory be subjected to open minded, careful scrutiny? DaveScot_{February 9, 2008
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DaveScot, You're violating a basic rule of civility in political life, which is that politicians should be referred to by the name they use in public life. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand. You're pretty smart, so I assume you're just trying to push my buttons by acting so clueless. But if you need it explained: this is wrong generally, like referring to Mitt Romney as "Willard" (his given name) or talking about "John Sidney McCain III" or "John Forbes Kerry." They're not the names those people use in public life. It's especially wrong in this case because it raises the impression that Obama is a Muslim: which is not true. BTW, you should inquire a bit more into McCain's position. He's on record as saying he doesn't want ID taught in science classes. Of course, he may be just briefly tacking right for political purposes. "Straight talk" indeed.larrynormanfan_{February 9, 2008
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larry Did I insult Barack Hussein Obama, in your opinion, by wondering what his position was on ID or by including his middle name? I really don't see how either of these could be construed as an insult. Two r's in his first name was an unintentional mistake. I know it's irritating though. People insist on spelling my middle name (Scot) with 2 t's and there's only one in it. I promise to watch my spelling of his first name in the future.DaveScot_{February 9, 2008
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Thanks for the info!gabrielAmerican_{February 8, 2008
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"I am a follower of Jesus." - God's iPod It's curious that Jesus, fearless and outspoken critic of many things, never voiced any opposition to the Roman government or its ways - which included the outrageous practice of publicly crucifying mere thieves! Nor did He suggest that the devil was promising more than he could deliver when he offered Jesus "all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them". Perhaps we should see ourselves more like ambassadors and less like common voters (2 Cor 5:20).Gerry Rzeppa_{February 8, 2008
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Abortion is the most important issue for me. On that count, I support former Assistant Secretary of State under Ronald Reagan Alan Keyes. According Jan. 25, 2000 New York Times (p. A17) article, McCain is pro-life, but believes it is okay to kill unborn fetuses whose fathers happen to be rapists. Indeed, he supports abortion of unborn whose mothers merely assert that the fathers are rapists. But ultimately, abortion is a state issue, not a federal issue, aside from appointing judges who will uphold the U.S. Constitution and states' rights). Alan Keyes noted of McCain
There's not a constituency of true conservatives that doesn't have one of John McCain's knives sticking out of [their] backs
I am also concerned about some points brought up by Mark Levin, who encourages us to consider: McCain's leading of the Gang of 14, which thwarted efforts to eliminate the filibuster of judicial nominees. McCain-Kennedy — the most far-reaching amnesty program in American history. McCain-Feingold — the most brazen frontal assault on political speech since Buckley v. Valeo. McCain-Lieberman — the most onerous and intrusive attack on American industry — through reporting, regulating, and taxing authority of greenhouse gases — in American history. The teaching about intelligent design in the public schools is, like abortion, a states' rights issue. Consequently, an important question to ask yourself is "how does candidate X define states' rights?" On this, even Ronald Reagan was imperfect—supporting The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 (Title 23 U.S.C. §158), which held states' tax dollars hostage to force the legal drinking age to be 21 years old (something I support at the state level).William Wallace_{February 8, 2008
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Gods iPod, I strongly disagree with you. McCain is potentialy a great friend of ID. If he didn't support it, he wouldn't have said he did. McCain is honest (a straight talker), and willing to take a position he feels is right. Even if it is unpopular.PannenbergOmega_{February 8, 2008
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I am a follower of Jesus. I would vote for ANY Democrat before voting for McCain. I am tired of the lies, the wars, the soft-fascism, and anyone who is getting Bush's endorsement is not someone I will ever vote for. There's zero possibility of a pro-war Republican taking office, so it's moot anyway. I predict the biggest landslide win for the Democrats ever.Gods iPod_{February 8, 2008
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hrun0815, Obama's first name is spelled with one "r"; DaveScot has misspelled it more than once. Obama doesn't use his full name in any of his literature: why use it? Off-topic: As for voting, I'll vote for Obama (or Hillary, though less enthusiastically) over McCain any day. I was an Edwards supporter until he dropped out. But then again, I'm convinced George W. Bush is the worst president of my lifetime (I was born during the LBJ administration) and maybe ever. I'm half tempted to support McCain on the grounds that repairing the ruin this administration has wrought is a thankless task and should be forced upon a Republican ("you broke it, you fix it"). But that would be just mean.larrynormanfan_{February 8, 2008
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