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Junk DNA

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Commenter DK asks:

What is the official ID position on junk DNA? Has anyone proposed that it might be a mechanism to cause wholesale change in other parts of the DNA?

I thought this subject might be good for its own discusson thread so here it is. I don’t believe ID has any more “official” position on it than NDE does. It is largely regions of DNA with no known function and that isn’t to say it has no function at all. IDists tend to say there is a lot of function waiting to be discovered in it under the rubric that design is less wasteful than chance processes. The NDE position tends more toward much of it being detritus of an evolution driven by chance processes.

Clearly some of it is detritus, at least in sequence information. A good example is the remnants of retrovirus gene insertions. Absent selection pressure the useless DNA would first be peppered by point random mutations over time (it is) then discarded wholesale by larger random deletion events over larger timespans.

It seems to me that there is a larger accumulation of junk DNA than NDE would predict. Given the large amount of it in the human genome (some 98% if memory serves) natural selection should really favor larger deletion events that clean it out from the genome. In computer programming we call this “garbage collection” and go to great lengths to eliminate code and data that is no longer required. In a living cell, as in computer programs, useless code consumes resources and returns no value for it. Replication of DNA takes up time, energy, and raw materials. If it could be done faster, using less energy, and fewer raw materials that should be a strong selection factor in getting rid of stuff that isn’t used. Yet there’s a ton of it there.

When I’ve made this argument in the past the counter argument was that it’s really not that much extra burden in eukaryote cells because they are so big and have such slow reproductive rates to begin with regardless of how much DNA they have to replicate in the process of making a new cell. Prokayrotes have virtually no junk DNA in comparison and their reproductive success is largely due to how rapidly they can reproduce in great numbers. It’s a good counter argument but I’m not sure I buy it.

What really raises a red flag about how much junk is really in all our junk DNA is a how much information is required to build an organism as complex as a human. If every single bit of information in all 3 billion bases was being used for some purpose I still find it incredible that the schematics (or recipe) for a human can be contained in a gigabyte (a gigabyte is roughly how much information is in 3B bases). To posit that it can be contained in 20 megabytes (2% of one gigabyte) stretches the limit of credulity far beyond the breaking point.

So the idea that natural selection should work hard at eliminating useless DNA combined with the incredulity of a human organism being able to be specified in so little storage space makes me strongly suspect that just about every shred of it is being put to some use and then some. The “then some” is the structure of the rest of the cell or epigenetic information. Because we can see some of the junk getting peppered with point mutations it’s obvious that the specific sequence information isn’t important in some of it. To explain this I have proposed that useful information is also encoded into the 3 dimensional structure of the DNA molecule. Thus an apparently useless remant of a viral insertion would serve to subtly (or maybe not very subtly) change the shape of the molecule and thus have an effect on the organism it describes. This handily explains why so much junk is still hanging around in the human genome and where at least some extra storage space beyond codified sequence information is contained.

On the other hand maybe it is mostly junk and the answer is that there is far more epigenetic information than is known about or widely postulated.

Comments
That'll teech me to proof my poasts. (Maybe not) :)mike1962
October 8, 2006
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John A Davison, You are correct, sir.mike1962
October 8, 2006
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mik196 In your last sentence I think you meant ontogeny not ontology.John A. Davison
October 8, 2006
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Great_Ape: "Okay, but that’s just another way to say that it’s a lousy explanation. I’d need to know which evidence in particular before I’d be inclined to agree with you. And it’s perfectly fine that you don’t accept my committment to ruling out materialistic explanations first; such acceptance is not a requirement for proving NDE is inconsistent with the historical evidence." I didn't use the word "inconsistent." Nor did I say any evidence contradicts NDE. What I said was it can’t be demonstrated to be responsible for the historical evidence. You can say God did it. you can say fairies did. You can say NDE did it. But if you say some unknown process did it that would the fairest statement. God, fairies and NDE are all "gap" theories. There is no gap-free physical paths proffered for the macro level differences in lifeforms for what is deemed "explained" by NDE. Having said that, I think there is evidence against NDE, namely the fossil record, despite all the attempts at justification. The evidence strongly favors a programmed evolution. A macro ontology, if you will.mike1962
October 8, 2006
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NeoDarwimpianism is the joke of two centuries. "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable" John A. DavisonJohn A. Davison
October 8, 2006
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mike1962: "What I mean by lousy explanation is that it can’t be demonstrated to be responsible for the historical evidence" Okay, but that's just another way to say that it's a lousy explanation. I'd need to know which evidence in particular before I'd be inclined to agree with you. And it's perfectly fine that you don't accept my committment to ruling out materialistic explanations first; such acceptance is not a requirement for proving NDE is inconsistent with the historical evidence.great_ape
October 7, 2006
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Great_Ape: "simply stating “NDE is a lousy explanation” gives me little with which to work." What I mean by lousy explanation is that it can't be demonstrated to be responsible for the historical evidence. And saying that it's the "best theory we've got" assumes a materialistic commitment which I don't share, and is not logically necessary.mike1962
October 7, 2006
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Everything will fall in place once the Darwimps abandon any role for chance. Until that happens it is all nothing but hot air as this and every other blog so eloquently testifies. I am also confident that we WILL be able to understand everything in the universe. That is precisely what the ultimate purpose was in a prescribed phylogeny. That is if we don't do ourselves in first. EVERTHING is determined... by forces over which we have no control." Albert Einstein, my emphasis "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable." John A. Davison Men believe most what they least understand." Montaigne "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable." John A. DavisonJohn A. Davison
October 7, 2006
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ape we’re still stuck with not having provided an explanation for how immense complexity/intelligence/advanced beings came to exist originally That's just how the cookie crumbles. We'll always be stuck by a logical need for a first cause and an inability to scientifically investigate the universe beyond certain finite bounds in time and space.DaveScot
October 7, 2006
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ape the nanotech revolution has seemed to remain “just around the corner” for some time now The signal event may be here already and the gov't has put a lockdown on it. Being able to program bacteria to complete any task that is physically possible for them can be used to make weapons that are far superior and far cheaper than anything in the history of mankind. It's far easier to destroy than it is to create. Much of the book "Engines of Creation" is devoted to hypothetical constraints that can be employed to prevent nanotechnology from being weaponized. As I recall (it's been 20 years since I read the book cover to cover) the most promising method included burning one of the bridges behind us. The key bridge to be burnt is the one where the first bacteria is reprogrammed to create the first general purpose assembler. Here's a link to more recent thinking on the containment problem - I just discovered it so can't comment on it yet.DaveScot
October 7, 2006
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mike1962: "It may be “simpler”, but it’s an illusion. Your view is essentially the “this is the best materialistic explanation we’ve got” view. The problem is, that while it might be “simpler”, it’s a lousy explanation given the evidence." It is difficult to respond to "it's a lousy explanation given the evidence." Tell me which evidence is incongruent, and then I have something concrete to work with. mike1962: "But the pragmatic view is to find an explanation that fits the data best. Sometimes the simpler exlpanations are wrong. NDE is a lousy explanation." Again, simply stating "NDE is a lousy explanation" gives me little with which to work. I know that in some circles this statement is regarded as a self-evident, but to engage in a meaningful dialogue with someone who doesn't necessarily believe that, you have to be a bit more specific. mike1962"...conventiently forgets all about the origins of it’s philosophical position regarding natural law. Without that foundation modern science and it’s successes would not have occured." I agree that the notion of a Lawgiver played an important part in Western culture of instilling the idea of a rational, orderly, and intelligible universe . Even though we must appreciate the influence of the historical idea of a supreme lawgiver on our philosophy and science, that does not imply that we must invoke the lawgiver as the *proximal* cause of life, evolution, etc. Saying anything beyond this would be venturing into theology, and this probably isn't the place for it.great_ape
October 6, 2006
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ds, I haven't read engines of creation; I will have a look. Personally, I'm anxiously awaiting significant nanotech progress because I'm hoping to have a set of tools for exploring the cell that are a little more subtle than a sledgehammer. That's about the level of refinement I feel we're currently dealing with at the moment. I'm a little discouraged, though, by the fact that the nanotech revolution has seemed to remain "just around the corner" for some time now. As for how this relates to life-begetting/life shaping intelligence, even if I were to accept that such an intelligence existed prior to humans--which I certainly don't rule out--and could account for observed life, we're still stuck with not having provided an explanation for how immense complexity/intelligence/advanced beings came to exist originally. Wouldn't it be ironic if our evolutionary speculations turn out to be completely incorrect in accounting for humans, but, instead, explained the origin of our advanced-being-progenitors...or their progenitors? In that case, I wonder which camp, if any, gets the rights to gloat?great_ape
October 6, 2006
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"NDE is a lousy theory, it cannot be demonstrated to explain the grand sweep of life from molecules to man." I don't think scientists are claiming that it can explain molecules to man, or at least not teaching it. "Historical forensics of billions of years and the supernatural sort of have something in common: they cannot be dragged into a laboratory and examined first hand." Are you saying we can't infer it because it happened in the past? "My interest, beyond simple fascination with the evidence, is in public education, and dethroning the NDE priesthood who have held the castle too long." The best way to do that is for ID to become an accepted scientific theory by producing research. According to the Discovery Institute this is happening and I am very interested to see what happens.Chris Hyland
October 6, 2006
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DaveScot said:
art2 You’re going to have give me some links to back up your claim that bacterial colonies can double in size in less time than it takes to replicate the DNA in one cell. That is simply preposterous on the face of it.
I guess from an engineering standpoint it sounds preposterous. But that's how things are. Go figure. You need access to a pretty good library to get ahold of the primary research papers. If that's not an option, Chapter 3 of this book should help. (BEWARE - the link downloads a ca 6 MB pdf file.) The parts around Figure 3.18, if my memory serves me correctly. The reference list at the end of the chapter is pretty remarkable as well. (Some of these papers might bring back memories for old-timers like Davison.) Don't forget my request - is there an empirical basis for the supposition that a 3 billion bp genome cannot be information enough to specify a human being?Art2
October 6, 2006
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Sorry, the URL link didn't work out. Here is the article: http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/reporter/index.html?ID=5043Jehu
October 6, 2006
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Slightly off topic but relevant to the structure of DNA. Check out this new article about DNA from Vanderbilt The article explains about DNA:
“Somehow they have been shaped and optimized for a particular purpose.”
As an example of opitmizatin, the article explains how even slight changes such as adding an extra carbon molecule to the sugars on the backbone of DNA destroys its characteristics that allow it to store and transfer genetic information. Some highly amusing quotes
DNA's simple and elegant structure — the “twisted ladder,” with sugar-phosphate chains making up the “rails” and oxygen- and nitrogen-containing chemical “rungs” tenuously uniting the two halves — seems to be the work of an accomplished sculptor.
Seems to be?
Yet the graceful, sinuous profile of the DNA double helix is the result of random chemical reactions in a simmering, primordial stew.
Sure it is. :)Jehu
October 6, 2006
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Chris Hyland: "I don’t think anyones denying the history of science, it’s simply for practical reasons that we cannot objectively attribute an effect to the supernatural." By practical I assume you mean it isn't empirically verifiable. Is NDE? Bottom line is, NDE is a lousy theory, it cannot be demonstrated to explain the grand sweep of life from molecules to man. Historical forensics of billions of years and the supernatural sort of have something in common: they cannot be dragged into a laboratory and examined first hand. Us ID-friendly types are simply tired of a worn out materialist philosophy that has led to NDE and it's failure. By all means keep on trying. Keep the faith. I don't care. My interest, beyond simple fascination with the evidence, is in public education, and dethroning the NDE priesthood who have held the castle too long.mike1962
October 6, 2006
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ape I do, however, believe that the difference between human intelligence and the type of intelligence that could orchestrate life and evolution is so inconceivably large that it is different in not only degree but *kind* from our own. Have you read Engines of Creation? The rate of technologic progress isn't linear. It's exponential. Given what we can do now (sequence genomes, insert and delete genes with viral vectors, construct functional viral genomes from just sequence information, etcetera) how long will it be before we have the whole thing licked at the rate we're progressing? Even if it's a thousand or million years that's an eyeblink in the history of the universe. Will we be an essentially different kind of intelligence when our computers and robotic laboratory equipment can whip up any kind of organism we care to specify? I don't think so. You should read Engines. It makes a very good case that these kinds of capabilities are only decades away, not thousands of years. The signal event is when we understand any bacteria well enough to be able to reprogram it to build things out of sturdier stuff than proteins. The capabilities of true nanotechnology are mind blowing... please read it. You won't be disappointed.DaveScot
October 6, 2006
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"It isn’t because those who steer the philosophy of science somehow answered the really big questions about existence of the universe, and why it has the nature it has. The Lawmaker was pushed out because he wasnt required for the limited scope of study these days, which has a basis of natural law, but conventiently forgets all about the origins of it’s philosophical position regarding natural law. Without that foundation modern science and it’s successes would not have occured." I don't think anyones denying the history of science, it's simply for practical reasons that we cannot objectively attribute an effect to the supernatural. "So while you’re quite willing to make gross extrapolations of micromutations that have never been demonstrated capable of creating novel cell types, tissue types, organs, or body plans you’re dismissing on an a priori basis a proven current mechanism in evolution (intelligent agency)." Envoking an alien intelligence in terestrial evolution would still be considered unparsimonious unless you could either definatively prove the theory of evolution or better provide positive evidence that intelligence was involved. As far as the novel cell types tissue types and body plans goes it appears to be mostly due to changes in gene expression and cell signalling, and I have not seen any evidence that the genetic differences involved are not within the capabilities of NDE. " I am suggesting here that organisms have a built-in capability of adapting to their environement. I am suggesting that to the extent that evolution occurs, it occurs at the level of the organism… Suppose a “biological engineer” is designing living organisms…build into the species the ability to switch among several forms…I am suggesting that living organisms have the capability of switching from one phenotype to another when cued by the environment. " It's called phenotypic plasticity, it's a well documented phenomenon. If it coutns as evidence against evolution, then someone should tell Massimo Pigliucci. "Very much as Bil Dembski has done, he employs complex mathematics. For example, he writes in Chapter Five:" Are you copying this stright from the book or of the web somewhere, because I cant see what he's getting at without the context.Chris Hyland
October 6, 2006
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ds, just a few thoughts now, and I will try to respond to more concerns raised later. I agree it was a bit unfair to imply, without further justification, that intelligence was somehow unnatural when NDE at the same time contends intelligence is a natural component of the universe, and we observe human intelligence and its impact on life and evolution. The way I left it does entail a double standard; point taken. I do not think that humans are necessarily the only intelligence in the universe. I do, however, believe that the difference between human intelligence and the type of intelligence that could orchestrate life and evolution is so inconceivably large that it is different in not only degree but *kind* from our own. So observation of our own human intelligence and its effects does not mean we have precedent for directly observing an intelligence of that enormity in nature. Basically, my position is that our own limited biomanipulations do not amount to establishing a precedent for an intelligence capable of begetting and/or shaping life.great_ape
October 6, 2006
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great_ape, I'd be interested in hearing what you think about pragmatic naturalism.Patrick
October 6, 2006
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I don't believe Spetner is fringe, and at any rate, anyone (John A. Davison take heed) who "name calls" and doesn't address the arguments raised loses credibility, no matter what side of the fence he sits on. If the only people who can challenge atenet that controls so much of the "environment" in which we live are the "authorized authority", then folks, don't worry about Sharia law, we've got it already. I don't have to publish favors to question conclusions that appear untenable. It is best to read Spetner's book, which provides the detail necessary along with the mathematics he employs raising doubts about the role of "randomness" in living organisms. Very much as Bil Dembski has done, he employs complex mathematics. For example, he writes in Chapter Five:
Contrast the huge number of possible sequences of the DNA with the size of an animal population...Suppose the population is even a billion. The fraction of all sequences that could be stored in the population would be a billion divided by 10 to the power 24,082,400 or 1/10 to the power 24,082,400...The number is so close to zero it is negligible. The genome variety found in the population is in no way a match for the potential variety of the genome.... But so long as these stored genes are not active, there's no selection...without selection, all strings of DNA have the same right to be in the genenome. How can a population know to store a DNA string that will some day be useful? Only by brute force!
As to "Junk DNA", in Chapter 7 of Not By Chance! he writes based on examples that he sites, e.g., snails shells thicken when there are crabs in the environment, or barnacles shape changing when snails that prey on them are present.
I am suggesting here that organisms have a built-in capability of adapting to their environement. I am suggesting that to the extent that evolution occurs, it occurs at the level of the organism... Suppose a "biological engineer" is designing living organisms...build into the species the ability to switch among several forms...I am suggesting that living organisms have the capability of switching from one phenotype to another when cued by the environment.
I think these concepts are worth considering; Spetner believes that what here is referred to as "Junk" or the "vast amount of DNA...whose funciton is as yet unknown" could in fact play a role in this. I believe this is an avenue of constructive thought. Here's the book, which one can purchase anywhere. http://www.amazon.com/Not-Chance-Shattering-Theory-Evolution/dp/1880582244 And now I shall leave to let the "authority" ponder with their proven sense of humility and wonder. There is enough strife on earth; why shouls anyone wish to contribute?P. Phillips
October 6, 2006
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great ape According to NDE, intelligence is a natural part of the universe. It posits humans as arising from natural processes. Humans are intelligent, humans can manipulate genomes, thus intelligent agency capable of changing the course of evolution is a natural part of the universe. Thus when you say that NDE is the best naturalistic explanation going you seem to be relying on a metaphysical belief that humanity is the only operative intelligence in the universe. I would point out that such belief is in direct defiance of both uniformitarianism (which you rely on in NDE) and the Copernican Principle of Mediocrity which pleads against special creation of the earth. We certainly DO see intelligent agency changing the course of events today including evolutionary events. You can't swing a dead cat without hearing about how humanity is causing mass extinctions, how geneticially modified organisms on our grocery shelves are insidious, how GMOs escaping into the wild will wreak havoc, pathogens "weaponized" by genetic engineering, and ecetera. So while you're quite willing to make gross extrapolations of micromutations that have never been demonstrated capable of creating novel cell types, tissue types, organs, or body plans you're dismissing on an a priori basis a proven current mechanism in evolution (intelligent agency). I'm not asking you to embrace intelligent causation I'm only asking you to acknowledge the facts and not apply double standards in uniformitarianism and what's natural and what isn't. DaveScot
October 6, 2006
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art2 You're going to have give me some links to back up your claim that bacterial colonies can double in size in less time than it takes to replicate the DNA in one cell. That is simply preposterous on the face of it.DaveScot
October 6, 2006
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P. Phillips I deleted two of your comments as they were way too long. Please refrain from quoting so much text in a comment. It makes it too difficult for people to scroll through. If you can't link to it then summarize it. Your comments won't be showing up right away any more. I'll be moderating them for a while to make sure you keep them reasonably brief.DaveScot
October 6, 2006
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great_ape: "For one, it is the simpler assumption and does not entail additional nonmaterial or intelligent influences that we do not witness presently affecting population genetics. In this view, it’s an extension of occam’s razor." It may be "simpler", but it's an illusion. Your view is essentially the "this is the best materialistic explanation we've got" view. The problem is, that while it might be "simpler", it's a lousy explanation given the evidence. Lousy explanations are still lousy explanations even when one insists on a materialistic basis. Time has shown that the simpler explanations are not necessarily the best ones. Which is why a neutral view, the one that allows for the possibility of intelligence causes, is the more rational one. Occam's Razor may be a fine initial guiding principle when one sets out to explain a phenomenon. But it can't turn a lousy theory into a good one. Time to start looking around for better explanations that fit the evidence. great_ape: "Finally, philosophically, I am of the opinion that we should only abandon so-called “naturalistic” explanations only at last resort, after we have exhausted all other options. This philosophical position of mine is ultimately pragmatic in origin, and is based on the past success of sticking to naturalistic explanations during the history of science." Part of that success you speak of is due to the fact that earlier scientists (such as Newton) were about discovering the laws of nature because they accepted a Lawgiver. It was a natural inference. I'm all for people trying to find natural law-based direct causes for things. But the pragmatic view is to find an explanation that fits the data best. Sometimes the simpler exlpanations are wrong. NDE is a lousy explanation. ID pragmatically expands the explanation range to what just might be the true explanation. This is the sensible approach. By all means, keep trying to made NDE work. But forgive us if we open our minds to better fits for the evidence. The successes of science have largely been entirely agnostic with regards to direct causes, and the question of intelligence is not required, pro or con. Newton determined that gravity was directly related to mass. But I assure you, he thought an intelligence was behind the "laws" of nature that made it so. And it was that view that compelled him to look for mechanistic laws. At some point in the philsophy of science, only deistic explanations were "seen to be required", to explain the laws of nature. (How this is "simpler" overall is beyond me.) Then eventually only atheistic explanations, because the laws themselves might exist on their own of from some non-rational cause. Simpler? On what basis? In order for one to have the authority to weigh in on what is "simpler" or more "complex" about the orgin of natural Laws, one would have to know something about the origin of those laws. It isn't because those who steer the philosophy of science somehow answered the really big questions about existence of the universe, and why it has the nature it has. The Lawmaker was pushed out because he wasnt required for the limited scope of study these days, which has a basis of natural law, but conventiently forgets all about the origins of it's philosophical position regarding natural law. Without that foundation modern science and it's successes would not have occured. Don't forget to dance with the one that brung ya.mike1962
October 6, 2006
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Get this folks. "Evolution is not possible." That is probably true only if you add the words - any more. There is no doubt that evolution occurred in the past or that it has steadily declined in extent. Just as in ontogeny, where the greatest changes occur early in the life of the organism, so did the greatest changes occur early in the evolutionary sequence, virtually instantaneously at the level of the animal Phyla and the plant Divisions. No Phylum or Division can even be rationally derived from another one. It would be like trying to derive one embryonic germ layer from another one. The final arbiter of evolution is the fossil record and absolutely nothing it has ever divulged could conceivably be reconciled with the Darwinian pipe dream. There is no point trying to communicate with Darwinian zealots. They are stone deaf and there is no hearing aid available to remedy their condition as it is not in the ear. It is in their central nervous system. They were born that way. It is hard to believe isn't it? I love it so! "A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable." John A. Davison "We age fastest when we are youngest" John A. Davison I join witjh Julian Huxley, Robert Broom and Pierre Grasse by concludimng that phylogeny is a thing of the past. At the genus level it ceased at least 2 million years ago and perhaps longer ago than that. I have proposed that a new species has not evolved in historical times and still not seen that challenge met with a single example.John A. Davison
October 6, 2006
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DaveScot said (too long ago to recall, probably):
art2 That may be true in eukaryotes but in prokaryotes it’s not. You’ve essentially restated the counter argument others have given but without separating the cases for eukaryotes and prokaryotes. The practical absence of any junk in prokaryote genomes is testimony to it.
?? I think that, in prokaryotes as well as eukaryotes, the resources devoted to genome replication are pretty small. This is no explanation for the difference betweem prokaryotes and eukaryotes. Speed of growth isn't really the answer either. At least, this is what a curious aspect of bacterial growth suggests. Recall (even if for the first time) that bacteria can grow with a doubling time that is actually smaller than the time it takes a new copy of the genome to be made. (That's right - a new generation can arise faster than the genome can be replicated.) Also recall that genome replication is relatively constant over more than an order of magnitude of growth rate. These observations (made back in the golden era of molecular genetics, when John Davison was a spry young Turk) tell us that the "speed limit" for growth in bacteria isn't the size of the genome, but rather something else. Thus, constraints made by growth rate isn't the reason bacteria have no junk DNA (at least not the same sorts that we see in eukaryotes). In a few places on this blog, comments repeat the canard that a typical genome is too small to account for the amazing complexity of, say, humans. I think I explained the error of this POV in easy-to-follow mathematical terms, and rather that repeat myself, I thought I would ask those who hold to this canard - why do you think this? What tangible experimental or theoretical considerations lead to this suggestion?Art2
October 5, 2006
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mike1962: "An ungrounded inference if there ever was one. What is uniformitarianism inferred from?" There are several reasons one might invoke uniformity--albeit an approximate uniformity-- of process for evolution. Here are some of my own thoughts; there are probably others that could offer superior arguments. For one, it is the simpler assumption and does not entail additional nonmaterial or intelligent influences that we do not witness presently affecting population genetics. In this view, it's an extension of occam's razor. This is in more or less the same spirit that Lyell applied uniformitarianism to geological formations 2) when we look at the genomes of various species, of different levels of kinship, the varieties of changes that separate them are the very same type of changes that we observe arising naturally in present populations. (duplications, point mutations, rearrangements, mobile element insertions, etc). So we have robust empirical evidence that the changes that do occur in macroevolution are in the repetoire of mutations currently occurring. Finally, philosophically, I am of the opinion that we should only abandon so-called "naturalistic" explanations only at last resort, after we have exhausted all other options. This philosophical position of mine is ultimately pragmatic in origin, and is based on the past success of sticking to naturalistic explanations during the history of science. Microevolution as the generator, ultimately, of macroevolution is the best contender we have for a naturalistic explanation for evolution, and I do not believe we have exhausted it as a explanation as yet. But since microevolution has not been definitely shown to be the source of macroevolution, the door remains open for it to be refuted convincingly. Until then, I place my bets and allegiance with the ND/RM+NS hypotheses. This comes with the extremely convenient benefit of not being crucified by my colleagues. The latter being an incidental perk and in no way influencing my thoughts on the matter.great_ape
October 5, 2006
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great_ape: "3. invoking of uniformitarianism, we surmise that the types of changes that lead to evolution A were microevolutionary in nature. Under this view, what occurs then is basically what occurs now and is what occurred at all timepoints in between." An ungrounded inference if there ever was one. What is uniformitarianism inferred from? The physical evidence. But appeals to evidence cannot prove uniformitarianism. Uniformitarianism has to be assumed before the evidence proves anything. Thus uniformitarinism props up NDE, and NDE props up unformitarianism. Round and round the circle goes.mike1962
October 5, 2006
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