Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

L&FP, 62: The Systems (and Systems Engineering) Perspective — a first step to understanding design in/of our world

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Our frame going forward, is knowledge reformation driven by application of the adapted JoHari Window, given obvious, fallacy-riddled ideological captivity of the intellectual high ground of our civilisation:

Ideological captivity of the high ground also calls forth the perspective that we need to map the high ground:

If you want some context on validity:

So, we are now looking at ideologically driven captivity of the intellectual high ground and related institutions of our civilisation, leading to compromising the integrity of the knowledge commons through fallacy riddled evolutionary materialistic scientism and related ideologies. Not a happy thought but that is what we have to deal with and find a better way forward.

We already know, knowledge (weak, everyday sense) is warranted, credibly true (so, reliable) belief, and that it is defeasible on finding gaps or errors that force reworking. Classically, that happened twice with Physics, the shattering of the Scholastic view through the Scientific revolution, and the modern physics revolution that showed limitations of newtonian dynamics and classical electromagnetism. Physics, like Humpty Dumpty [and the underlying fallen Roman Empire], has never been put back together again.

But, how do we proceed?

Through systems thinking and systems engineering, on several levels.

First, NASA defines:

“systems engineering” is defined as a methodical, multi-disciplinary approach for the design, realization, technical management, operations, and retirement of a system. A “system” is the combination of elements that function together to produce the capability required to meet a need. The elements include all hardware, software, equipment, facilities, personnel [–> thus, these are sociotechnical systems and bridge engineering and management], processes, and procedures needed for this purpose; that is, all things required to produce system-level results. The results include system-level qualities, properties, characteristics, functions, behavior, and performance. The value added by the system as a whole, beyond that contributed independently by the parts, is primarily created by the relationship among the parts; that is, how they are interconnected. [–> functional, information rich organisation adds value] It is a way of looking at the “big picture” when making technical decisions. It is a way of achieving stakeholder functional, physical, and operational performance requirements in the intended use environment over the planned life of the system within cost, schedule, and other constraints. It is a methodology that supports the containment of the life cycle cost of a system. In other words, systems engineering is a logical way of thinking.

Systems engineering is the art and science of developing an operable system capable of meeting requirements within often opposed constraints. Systems engineering is a holistic, integrative discipline

NASA has a big scoping chart for Systems Engineering in a project/programme management context:

We can look at the Systems Engineering Vee Model (HT: ResearchGate):

Another view, notice, the implied, layer cake modularity of systems, from physical materials to base devices and components [consider a transistor or a bolt], to function units, to system modules and organisation to overall functionality based on information rich organisation:

U/D, Oct 13: We may add a chart on a key subset of SE, reverse engineering, RE:

A summary of RE, HT: Global Spec (We may often start with step 2, and obviously Step 1 has a typo for purpose, a little RE exercise in itself.)

One of the most significant RE-FE exercises was the clean room duplication of the IBM PC’s operating framework that allowed lawsuit-proof clones to be built that then led to the explosion of PC-compatible machines. By the time this was over, IBM sold out to Lenovo and went back to its core competency, Mainframes. Where, now, a mainframe today is in effect a high end packaged server farm; the microprocessor now rules the world, including the supercomputer space.

Here, let us add, a Wikipedia confession as yet another admission against interest:

Reverse engineering (also known as backwards engineering or back engineering) is a process or method through which one attempts to understand through deductive reasoning [–> actually, a poor phrase for inference to best explanation, i.e. abductive reasoning] how a previously made device, process, system, or piece of software accomplishes a task with very little (if any) [–> initial] insight into exactly how it does so. It is essentially the process of opening up or dissecting [–> telling metaphor] a system [–> so, SE applies] to see how it works, in order to duplicate or enhance it. Depending on the system under consideration and the technologies employed, the knowledge gained during reverse engineering can help with repurposing obsolete objects, doing security analysis, or learning how something works.[1][2]

Although the process is specific to the object on which it is being performed, all reverse engineering processes consist of three basic steps: Information extraction, Modeling, and Review. Information extraction refers to the practice of gathering all relevant information [–> telling word, identify the FSCO/I present in the entity, and of course TRIZ is highly relevant esp its library of key design strategies] for performing the operation. Modeling refers to the practice of combining the gathered information into an abstract model [–> that is, the inferred best explanation], which can be used as a guide for designing the new object or system. [–> guess why I think within this century we should be able to build a cell de novo?] Review refers to the testing of the model to ensure the validity of the chosen abstract.[1] Reverse engineering is applicable in the fields of computer engineering, mechanical engineering, design, electronic engineering, software engineering, chemical engineering,[3] and systems biology.[4] [More serious discussion, here.]

We can see that

one paradigm for science is, reverse engineering nature.

This directly connects to, technology as using insights from RE of nature to forward engineer [FE] our own useful systems. And of course that takes us to a theme of founders of modern science, that they were “thinking God’s thoughts after him.”

In that SE-RE-FE context, we can bring on board issues of systems architecture and related matters, as I commented earlier today:

An Analogue Computer network with two chained integrators

Computer architecture at first level, is the study of the assembly/machine language view, i.e. information, its processing [including coding, algorithmic processes etc], associated function units, their organisation. Underlying physical science and technique to effect these units carries us to the layer cake, modular network, systems view. With analogue computers, the focus is on continuous state function units and how they represent key mathematical operations [famously, integration] that then integrate in a process flow network to handle continuous state information bearing signals and materials or states and phases of dynamic stochastic entities etc. This extends the context to instrumentation, control and systems engineering as well as telecommunications, bringing in frequency domain transforms and approaches as well as state/phase space approaches. These give us fresh eyes to see and more objectively understand the molecular nanotech marvels in the cell.

Obviously, this immediately allows us to reconsider the cell as a marvel of nanotechnology, e.g. here is its metabolic framework, part of how it is a metabolising, molecular nanotech self replicating automaton:

Just the top left corner, already involves a complex algorithmic process using coded information:

Protein Synthesis (HT: Wiki Media)

Then, there is the communication network this expresses, as Yockey pointed out:

Yockey’s analysis of protein synthesis as a code-based communication process

All of this, we have known for decades, but now it is time to independently ponder it as a system and understand how this exemplifies and instantiates such system elements. We can immediately set aside crude fallacies of appeals to dismissible analogies, once we ponder, say, the genetic code as just that, a code:

The Genetic code uses three-letter codons to specify the sequence of AA’s in proteins and specifying start/stop, and using six bits per AA

Just for reference, by fair use doctrine, here is Lehninger’s comparison:

By starting from a systems perspective, we can then rebuild knowledge on a sounder footing than the present ideologically driven institutional capture. END

Comments
F/N: As fine tuning has come up, a point of reference:
In physics, particularly in statistical mechanics, we base many of our calculations on the assumption of metric transitivity, which asserts that a system’s trajectory will eventually [--> given "enough time and search resources"] explore the entirety of its state space – thus everything that is phys-ically possible will eventually happen. It should then be trivially true that one could choose an arbitrary “final state” (e.g., a living organism) and “explain” it by evolving the system backwards in time choosing an appropriate state at some ’start’ time t_0 (fine-tuning the initial state). In the case of a chaotic system the initial state must be specified to arbitrarily high precision. But this account amounts to no more than saying that the world is as it is because it was as it was, and our current narrative therefore scarcely constitutes an explanation in the true scientific sense. We are left in a bit of a conundrum with respect to the problem of specifying the initial conditions necessary to explain our world. A key point is that if we require specialness in our initial state (such that we observe the current state of the world and not any other state) metric transitivity cannot hold true, as it blurs any dependency on initial conditions – that is, it makes little sense for us to single out any particular state as special by calling it the ’initial’ state. If we instead relax the assumption of metric transitivity (which seems more realistic for many real world physical systems – including life), then our phase space will consist of isolated pocket regions and it is not necessarily possible to get to any other physically possible state (see e.g. Fig. 1 for a cellular automata example).
[--> or, there may not be "enough" time and/or resources for the relevant exploration, i.e. we see the 500 - 1,000 bit complexity threshold at work vs 10^57 - 10^80 atoms with fast rxn rates at about 10^-13 to 10^-15 s leading to inability to explore more than a vanishingly small fraction on the gamut of Sol system or observed cosmos . . . the only actually, credibly observed cosmos]
Thus the initial state must be tuned to be in the region of phase space in which we find ourselves [--> notice, fine tuning], and there are regions of the configuration space our physical universe would be excluded from accessing, even if those states may be equally consistent and permissible under the microscopic laws of physics (starting from a different initial state). Thus according to the standard picture, we require special initial conditions to explain the complexity of the world, but also have a sense that we should not be on a particularly special trajectory to get here (or anywhere else) as it would be a sign of fine–tuning of the initial conditions. [ --> notice, the "loading"] Stated most simply, a potential problem with the way we currently formulate physics is that you can’t necessarily get everywhere from anywhere (see Walker [31] for discussion). ["The “Hard Problem” of Life," June 23, 2016, a discussion by Sara Imari Walker and Paul C.W. Davies at Arxiv.]
more on the anthropic principle from Lewis and Barnes https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/hitchhikers-guide-authors-puddle-argument-against-fine-tuning-and-a-response/#comment-729507 KFkairosfocus
October 19, 2022
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SG, it is obvious you are not examining the substantial issue, just setting up an inept simplistic strawman and talking as though it dismisses the substantial case. This again underscores just how insubstantial the objecting case is and how much it is driven by ideology. For just one example, a puddle argument stretched to be something substantial implies fine tuning is mechanical necessity like gravity and water settling in holes. That's a super law argument. However, such a super law would be exquisitely fine tuned to the point we could give it one of those titles that have become names. It starts Cre _____ or. KFkairosfocus
October 18, 2022
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A Reasonable Little Question: A Formulation of the Fine-Tuning Argument - Barnes - 2020 A new formulation of the Fine-Tuning Argument (FTA) for the existence of God is offered, which avoids a number of commonly raised objections. I argue that we can and should focus on the fundamental constants and initial conditions of the universe, and show how physics itself provides the probabilities that are needed by the argument. I explain how this formulation avoids a number of common objections, specifically the possibility of deeper physical laws, the multiverse, normalisability, whether God would fine-tune at all, whether the universe is too fine-tuned, and whether the likelihood of God creating a life-permitting universe is inscrutable. Is the physical world all that exists? Are the ultimate laws of the physical universe the end of all explanations, or is there something about our universe that is noteworthy or rare or clever or unexpected? https://theisticscience.com/papers/tree/VariableCouplings/Barnes-Ergo2020-reasonable-little-question-a-formulation-of-the-fine-tuning.pdf Extremely long. But,, 5. Conclusion What physical universe would we expect to exist, if naturalism were true? To systematically and tractably explore other ways that the universe could have been, we vary the free parameters of the standard models of particle physics and cosmology. This exercise could have discovered that our universe is typical and unexceptional. It did not. This search for other ways that the universe could have been has overwhelmingly found lifelessness. In short, the answer to the Little Question is no. And so, plausibly and as best we can tell, the answer to the Big Question is no. The fine-tuning of the universe for life shows that, according to the best physical theories we have, naturalism overwhelmingly expects a dead universe. The Fine-Tuning of Nature’s Laws - Luke A. Barnes - Fall 2015 Excerpt: Today, our deepest understanding of the laws of nature is summarized in a set of equations. Using these equations, we can make very precise calculations of the most elementary physical phenomena, calculations that are confirmed by experimental evidence. But to make these predictions, we have to plug in some numbers that cannot themselves be calculated but are derived from measurements of some of the most basic features of the physical universe. These numbers specify such crucial quantities as the masses of fundamental particles and the strengths of their mutual interactions. After extensive experiments under all manner of conditions, physicists have found that these numbers appear not to change in different times and places, so they are called the fundamental constants of nature. These constants represent the edge of our knowledge. Richard Feynman called one of them — the fine-structure constant, which characterizes the amount of electromagnetic force between charged elementary particles like electrons — “one of the greatest damn mysteries of physics: a magic number that comes to us with no understanding by man.” An innovative, elegant physical theory that actually predicts the values of these constants would be among the greatest achievements of twenty-first-century physics. Many have tried and failed. ,,, Tweaking the Constants Let’s consider a few examples of the many and varied consequences of messing with the fundamental constants of nature, the initial conditions of the universe, and the mathematical form of the laws themselves. You are made of cells; cells are made of molecules; molecules of atoms; and atoms of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Protons and neutrons, in turn, are made of quarks. We have not seen any evidence that electrons and quarks are made of anything more fundamental (though other fundamental particles, like the Higgs boson of recent fame, have also been discovered in addition to quarks and electrons). The results of all our investigations into the fundamental building blocks of matter and energy are summarized in the Standard Model of particle physics, which is essentially one long, imposing equation. Within this equation, there are twenty-six constants, describing the masses of the fifteen fundamental particles, along with values needed for calculating the forces between them, and a few others. We have measured the mass of an electron to be about 9.1 x 10^-28 grams, which is really very small — if each electron in an apple weighed as much as a grain of sand, the apple would weigh more than Mount Everest. The other two fundamental constituents of atoms, the up and down quarks, are a bit bigger, coming in at 4.1 x 10^-27 and 8.6 x 10^-27 grams, respectively. These numbers, relative to each other and to the other constants of the Standard Model, are a mystery to physics. Like the fine-structure constant, we don’t know why they are what they are. However, we can calculate all the ways the universe could be disastrously ill-suited for life if the masses of these particles were different. For example, if the down quark’s mass were 2.6 x 10^-26 grams or more, then adios, periodic table! There would be just one chemical element and no chemical compounds, in stark contrast to the approximately 60 million known chemical compounds in our universe. With even smaller adjustments to these masses, we can make universes in which the only stable element is hydrogen-like. Once again, kiss your chemistry textbook goodbye, as we would be left with one type of atom and one chemical reaction. If the up quark weighed 2.4 x 10^-26 grams, things would be even worse — a universe of only neutrons, with no elements, no atoms, and no chemistry whatsoever. ,,, Compared to the range of possible masses that the particles described by the Standard Model could have, the range that avoids these kinds of complexity-obliterating disasters is extremely small. Imagine a huge chalkboard, with each point on the board representing a possible value for the up and down quark masses. If we wanted to color the parts of the board that support the chemistry that underpins life, and have our handiwork visible to the human eye, the chalkboard would have to be about ten light years (a hundred trillion kilometers) high.,,, http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-fine-tuning-of-natures-laws
bornagain77
October 18, 2022
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The Trouble with Puddle Thinking - Alas Lewis & Barnes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-AIItNLTDwbornagain77
October 18, 2022
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BA77: The Trouble with “Puddle Thinking”
The trouble with “Puddle Thinking” is those who think they have to respond to “Puddle Thinking”. In the famous words of of the Bard “The lady doth protest too much, methinks”.Sir Giles
October 18, 2022
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The Trouble with "Puddle Thinking": A User's Guide to the Anthropic Principle - Geraint F. Lewis, Luke A. Barnes - June 2021 https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.03381 Does the Puddle Analogy Explain Cosmic Fine-Tuning? by Hugh Ross - June 7, 2021 Excerpt: Problems with “Puddle Thinking” A few weeks ago, Australian astronomers Geraint Lewis and Luke Barnes published what, in my opinion, is the most eloquent and lay-accessible rebuttal to the puddle argument.5 They begin by giving the puddle the name Doug. Doug the puddle observes an exact match between his shape and the shape of the hole in which he dwells. Doug concludes that Someone must have designed the hole just for him. What Doug fails to realize is that given the fluidity of the water, the solidity of the hole, and the force of gravity, he will always take on the identical shape of his hole. Lewis and Barnes point out the obvious: any hole will do for a puddle. The puddle analogy for humanity’s existence in the universe is fatally flawed. The two astronomers explain that not every conceivable universe will do for physical life. Physical life is not like a fluid. It will not and cannot adjust to any universe. The fine-tuning that astronomers observe indicates that even very slight alterations to the universe’s characteristics would rule out the possible existence of physical life. For human life, and especially for global human civilization, the constraints on the universe’s characteristics are exponentially more fine-tuned.,,, Lewis and Barnes conclude that the fallacies in the puddle argument imply that the cosmic fine-tuning that astronomers observe cannot be dismissed as unworthy of our attention.,,, https://reasons.org/explore/blogs/todays-new-reason-to-believe/does-the-puddle-analogy-explain-cosmic-fine-tuning
bornagain77
October 18, 2022
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AF: PS, it also explains how water in a puddle so perfectly fills the hole.
It’s almost as if the hole was designed and finely tuned for the benefit of the puddle.Sir Giles
October 18, 2022
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AF, BTW, equally, you know the issue is origin of the system architecture of the universe which shows fine tuning, likewise origin of life using complex coded algorithms. But of course you seemingly cannot resist setting up and knocking over strawman caricatures. Showing, that you have no substantial answer on the merits. Duly noted. KFkairosfocus
October 18, 2022
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AF, you have kept 3 mm on the side of the line, showing you know where it is. KFkairosfocus
October 18, 2022
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May not surprise you to know that the hubristic poses if some reconstructionists, fundamentalists and right-wing evangelicals give Jesus' published teachings a bad name, in my view.Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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Yes I agree, the new policy of "give enough rope to a Darwinian atheist and he will hang himself" seems to working out quite well. :) https://st.depositphotos.com/1009764/2328/i/950/depositphotos_23286678-stock-photo-hanging-man.jpgbornagain77
October 18, 2022
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I mean, remember the times when you would call on the voice in the ceiling to ban someone and, hey presto, they would disappear? It's so much better now, wouldn't you agree?Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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Naughty Phil. Others can read for themselves. Actually, I have to say the relaxed moderation here is a refreshing change from earlier times.Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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^^^ LOL, And right on cue, AF gives a shining example of denialism. You simply can't make this stuff up, nobody would believe it. :) LOL, thanks for playing.bornagain77
October 18, 2022
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So AF does not deny God per se, he just denies that anything in the universe, like water, and/or a cell, can be evidence for Intelligent Design.
Lets's be clear. It is very simplistic to argue the universe is either the result of physical processes or due to divine intervention. Neither position is defensible. There is no empirical explanation [oops pressed post in error] for the origin of this universe or the origin of life on Earth. Nor is there any evidenced consensual religious explanation. Nobody knows, though many are full of ideas.Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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So AF does not deny God per se, he just denies that anything in the universe, like water, and/or a cell, can be evidence for Intelligent Design.. Gotcha buddy.,,, Let's just call it 'selective denialism for rhetorical purposes' shall we? :)bornagain77
October 18, 2022
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Denial is not a river in Egypt? Huh... huh. After all this time...relatd
October 18, 2022
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Phil, you first told me water isn't simple, with which statement I agree, then you told me that people argue that water being not simple is an argument for God, which is a non-sequitur, but have not produced a single example. Then you tell me that atheists claim the simplicity of water proves the non-existence of God, which would be a daft argument. No examples from you. All the while claiming I am an atheist. I'm certainly not a Christian but I haven't ruled out other possibilities. I accept the description of agnostic. So who's the denier here, Phil?Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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Whatever AF. Denial is NOT a river in Egypt.
Hear no Intelligent Design, See no Intelligent Design, Speak no Intelligent Design. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/5a/33/a75a33e0054eac9a2ecdf69f735b8104.jpg In the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person's choice to deny reality, as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth. - Denialism - Wikipedia
bornagain77
October 18, 2022
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The simpleness or otherwise of water is not mentioned. Try again, Phil.Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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"Do they?" :) That seems to have been asked with a bit of nervousness. :) But alas, (since we are indeed made in the 'image of God'), the design intuition in humans runs very deep and it is only by purposely suppressing their innate design inference that atheists, such as yourself, can maintain their atheistic worldview against all evidence to the contrary.
Is Atheism a Delusion? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ii-bsrHB0o Design Thinking Is Hardwired in the Human Brain. How Come? - October 17, 2012 Excerpt: "Even Professional Scientists Are Compelled to See Purpose in Nature, Psychologists Find." The article describes a test by Boston University's psychology department, in which researchers found that "despite years of scientific training, even professional chemists, geologists, and physicists from major universities such as Harvard, MIT, and Yale cannot escape a deep-seated belief that natural phenomena exist for a purpose" ,,, Most interesting, though, are the questions begged by this research. One is whether it is even possible to purge teleology from explanation. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/design_thinking065381.html Richard Dawkins take heed: Even atheists instinctively believe in a creator says study - Mary Papenfuss - June 12, 2015 Excerpt: Three studies at Boston University found that even among atheists, the "knee jerk" reaction to natural phenomenon is the belief that they're purposefully designed by some intelligence, according to a report on the research in Cognition entitled the "Divided Mind of a disbeliever." The findings "suggest that there is a deeply rooted natural tendency to view nature as designed," writes a research team led by Elisa Järnefelt of Newman University. They also provide evidence that, in the researchers' words, "religious non-belief is cognitively effortful." Researchers attempted to plug into the automatic or "default" human brain by showing subjects images of natural landscapes and things made by human beings, then requiring lightning-fast responses to the question on whether "any being purposefully made the thing in the picture," notes Pacific-Standard. "Religious participants' baseline tendency to endorse nature as purposefully created was higher" than that of atheists, the study found. But non-religious participants "increasingly defaulted to understanding natural phenomena as purposefully made" when "they did not have time to censor their thinking," wrote the researchers. The results suggest that "the tendency to construe both living and non-living nature as intentionally made derives from automatic cognitive processes, not just practised explicit beliefs," the report concluded. The results were similar even among subjects from Finland, where atheism is not a controversial issue as it can be in the US. "Design-based intuitions run deep," the researchers conclude, "persisting even in those with no explicit religious commitment and, indeed, even among those with an active aversion to them." http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/richard-dawkins-take-heed-even-atheists-instinctively-believe-creator-says-study-1505712
Perhaps the two most famous quotes of atheists suppressing their innate ‘design inference’ are the two following quotes:
“Yet the living results of natural selection overwhelmingly impress us with the appearance of design as if by a master watchmaker, impress us with the illusion of design and planning.” Richard Dawkins – “The Blind Watchmaker” – 1986 – page 21 “Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed, but rather evolved. It might be thought, therefore, that evolutionary arguments would play a large part in guiding biological research, but this is far from the case” - Francis Crick – What Mad Pursuit - 1988
It is very easy to see why Francis Crick in particular, co-discoverer of the DNA helix, would be constantly haunted by his innate belief that life must be Intelligently Designed. DNA itself literally screams, “I AM INTELLIGENTLY DESIGNED” from every angle that you look at it. Jan 2022 https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/movie-night-with-illustra-a-whale-of-a-story-and-18-trillion-feet-of-you/#comment-745611
Romans 1:19-20 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
bornagain77
October 18, 2022
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I mean it would be equally daft to say water is not simple, therefore God. Surely nobody makes such a silly argument? Do they?Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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And my point was to point out that something as ‘simple’ as water refutes the atheistic worldview and supports Intelligent Design.
But you are wrong. Water is not simple. And I've never heard the argument that because water is simple , God doesn't exist. That is a completely mad non-sequitur.Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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And my point was to point out that something as 'simple' as water refutes the atheistic worldview and supports Intelligent Design. Funny how that works eh? Also see,
Privileged Species - How the cosmos is designed for human life - video (2015) (13:29 minute mark; water's thermal properties, 15:00 minute mark; evaporative cooling is optimal for humans in particular) https://youtu.be/VoI2ms5UHWg?t=809 The Miracle of Man: Extraordinary “Coincidences” All the Way Down - - June 9, 2022 Excerpt: On a new episode of ID the Future, Miracle of Man author and biologist Michael Denton continues his conversation with host Eric Anderson. Here Denton offers a review of several more anthropic “coincidences” in chemistry, biochemistry, and Earth sciences that are fine tuned to allow air-breathing, bipedal, technology-developing terrestrial creatures like ourselves to exist and thrive. The fine tuning, what Denton calls anthropic prior fitness, would seem to require foresight and planning on literally a cosmic scale. https://evolutionnews.org/2022/06/the-miracle-of-man-extraordinary-coincidences-all-the-way-down/ First three parts of the interview with Dr. Denton are here 1 https://idthefuture.com/1601/ 2 https://idthefuture.com/1604/ 3 https://idthefuture.com/1606/ The Miracle of Man: The Fine Tuning of Nature for Human Existence (Privileged Species Series) – May 6, 2022 https://www.amazon.com/dp/1637120125/
bornagain77
October 18, 2022
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PS, it also explains how water in a puddle so perfectly fills the hole.Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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BTW BA77 My original mention of water was to refute someone's assertion that chemistry is random by pointing out that water molecules always consist of one atom of oxygen linked to two atoms of hydrogen, with paired electrons spending more time (probably - but the probability is eminently predictable and non-random) nearer the oxygen nucleus. This is the key that allows hydrogen bonds to form and explains the non-linear shape of water molecules.Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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DNA is held together by hydrophobic forces - SEPTEMBER 23, 2019 Excerpt: Researchers at Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden, have disproved the prevailing theory of how DNA binds itself. It is not, as is generally believed, hydrogen bonds which bind together the two sides of the DNA structure. Instead, water is the key. The discovery opens doors for new understanding in research in medicine and life sciences. The findings are published in PNAS. DNA is constructed of two strands consisting of sugar molecules and phosphate groups. Between these two strands are nitrogen bases, the compounds that make up genes, with hydrogen bonds between them. Until now, it was commonly thought that those hydrogen bonds held the two strands together. But now, researchers from Chalmers University of Technology show that the secret to DNA's helical structure may be that the molecules have a hydrophobic interior, in an environment consisting mainly of water. The environment is therefore hydrophilic, while the DNA molecules' nitrogen bases are hydrophobic, pushing away the surrounding water. When hydrophobic units are in a hydrophilic environment, they group together to minimize their exposure to the water. The role of the hydrogen bonds, which were previously seen as crucial to holding DNA helixes together, appear to be more to do with sorting the base pairs so that they link together in the correct sequence. The discovery is crucial for understanding DNA's relationship with its environment. "Cells want to protect their DNA, and not expose it to hydrophobic environments, which can sometimes contain harmful molecules," says Bobo Feng, one of the researchers behind the study. "But at the same time, the cells' DNA needs to open up in order to be used." "We believe that the cell keeps its DNA in a water solution most of the time, but as soon as a cell wants to do something with its DNA, like read, copy or repair it, it exposes the DNA to a hydrophobic environment." Reproduction, for example, involves the base pairs dissolving from one another and opening up. Enzymes then copy both sides of the helix to create new DNA. When it comes to repairing damaged DNA, the damaged areas are subjected to a hydrophobic environment, to be replaced. A catalytic protein creates the hydrophobic environment. This type of protein is central to all DNA repairs, meaning it could be the key to fighting many serious sicknesses.,,, The researchers observed that when the solution reached the borderline between hydrophilic and hydrophobic, the DNA molecules' characteristic spiral form started to unravel. Upon closer inspection, they observed that when the base pairs split from one another (due to external influence, or simply from random movements), holes are formed in the structure, allowing water to leak in. Because DNA wants to keep its interior dry, it presses together, with the base pairs coming together again to squeeze out the water. In a hydrophobic environment, this water is missing, so the holes stay in place. https://phys.org/news/2019-09-dna-held-hydrophobic.html
bornagain77
October 18, 2022
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BA77, You overlooked the amazing properties of the hydrogen bond that results in some of water's unique properties as an almost universal solvent and how the hydrogen bond is central to base pairing in DNA and RNA.Alan Fox
October 18, 2022
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As to AF's appeal to 'simple' water to try to support his atheistic worldview, i.e. "two atoms of hydrogen will combine with one atom of oxygen to form one molecule of water." It turns out that even something as simple as water refutes AF's atheistic worldview,
Water, Ultimate Giver of Life, Points to Intelligent Design – (Michael Denton 2017) video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2i0g1sL-X4 Pro-Intelligent Design Peer Reviewed Scientific Paper Argues for an “Engineered World” Casey Luskin - December 26, 2010 Excerpt: Another aspect of the universe they claim shows evidence of engineering is its “biofriendliness.” They focus on the life-sustaining properties of water: "The remarkable properties of water are numerous. Its very high specific heat maintains relatively stable temperatures both in oceans and organisms. As a liquid, its thermal conductivity is four times any other common liquid, which makes it possible for cells to efficiently distribute heat. On the other hand, ice has a low thermal conductivity, making it a good thermal shield in high latitudes. A latent heat of fusion only surpassed by that of ammonia tends to keep water in liquid form and creates a natural thermostat at 0°C. Likewise, the highest latent heat of vaporization of any substance – more than five times the energy required to heat the same amount of water from 0°C-100°C – allows water vapor to store large amounts of heat in the atmosphere. This very high latent heat of vaporization is also vital biologically because at body temperature or above, the only way for a person to dissipate heat is to sweat it off. Water’s remarkable capabilities are definitely not only thermal. A high vapor tension allows air to hold more moisture, which enables precipitation. Water’s great surface tension is necessary for good capillary effect for tall plants, and it allows soil to hold more water. Water’s low viscosity makes it possible for blood to flow through small capillaries. A very well documented anomaly is that water expands into the solid state, which keeps ice on the surface of the oceans instead of accumulating on the ocean floor. Possibly the most important trait of water is its unrivaled solvency abilities, which allow it to transport great amounts of minerals to immobile organisms and also hold all of the contents of blood. It is also only mildly reactive, which keeps it from harmfully reacting as it dissolves substances. Recent research has revealed how water acts as an efficient lubricator in many biological systems from snails to human digestion. By itself, water is not very effective in this role, but it works well with certain additives, such as some glycoproteins. The sum of these traits makes water an ideal medium for life. Literally, every property of water is suited for supporting life. It is no wonder why liquid water is the first requirement in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. All these traits are contained in a simple molecule of only three atoms. One of the most difficult tasks for an engineer is to design for multiple criteria at once. … Satisfying all these criteria in one simple design is an engineering marvel. Also, the design process goes very deep since many characteristics would necessarily be changed if one were to alter fundamental physical properties such as the strong nuclear force or the size of the electron." They then explore why the very elements that are most common in life — hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen — are so prevalent in the universe: "Hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon rank one, three, and four, respectively, in prevalence in the universe (helium is the other). The explanation has to do with fusion within stars. Early reactions start with hydrogen atoms and then produce deuterium (mass 2), tritium (mass 3), and alpha particles (mass 4), but no stable mass 5 exists. This limits the creation of heavy elements and was considered one of “God’s mistakes” until further investigation. In actuality, the lack of a stable mass 5 necessitates bigger jumps of four which lead to carbon (mass 12) and oxygen (mass 16). Otherwise, the reactions would have climbed right up the periodic table in mass steps of one (until iron, which is the cutoff above which fusion requires energy rather than creating it). The process would have left oxygen and carbon no more abundant than any other element." The authors then quote Fred Hoyle on the subject, who stated, “I do not believe that any scientist who examined the evidence would fail to draw the inference that the laws of nuclear physics have been deliberately designed with regard to the consequences they produce inside the stars.” https://evolutionnews.org/2010/12/pro-intelligent_design_peer_re/ Water's quantum weirdness makes life possible - October 2011 Excerpt: WATER'S life-giving properties exist on a knife-edge. It turns out that life as we know it relies on a fortuitous, but incredibly delicate, balance of quantum forces.,,, They found that the hydrogen-oxygen bonds were slightly longer than the deuterium-oxygen ones, which is what you would expect if quantum uncertainty was affecting water’s structure. “No one has ever really measured that before,” says Benmore. We are used to the idea that the cosmos’s physical constants are fine-tuned for life. Now it seems water’s quantum forces can be added to this “just right” list. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.900-waters-quantum-weirdness-makes-life-possible.html Water Is 'Designer Fluid' That Helps Proteins Change Shape - 2008 Excerpt: "When bound to proteins, water molecules participate in a carefully choreographed ballet that permits the proteins to fold into their functional, native states. This delicate dance is essential to life." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080806113314.htm
bornagain77
October 18, 2022
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AF, you are blind to systems architecture on this topic as acknowledging that it is real would be fatal to your preferred views. Yes, there is a physical layer using polymer chemistry based nanotech. There is a digital layer in the mRNA, using coded algorithms to sequence AA chains that then are folded etc to form functional proteins. That speaks to deep understanding of the chem but also to the digital layer using codes and algorithms. Which for weeks now you have been desperate to deny and dismiss. Even when corrected by leading authorities in the field you tried to use, to give plausibility to your denial tactics, biochem. Yes, the said authorities then go on to postulate an utterly implausible spontaneous process to get to that architecture. That is unsurprising goiven current circumstances. But that does not change the force of what has been learned since the 1950's about protein synthesis. KFkairosfocus
October 18, 2022
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