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Longtime commenter Bob O’H preens himself at the expense of the Biologic Institute

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With unclear results. You be the judge. Here is the comment stream:

Bob O’H:

Has ID done much to advance our understanding of information theory? I can’t see much evidence that computer scientists and mathematicians are picking up and using these ideas.

As for the Biologic Institute, they list 4 publications from 2014, 2 of them in Bio-Complexity: in the same time period I published 8 papers. That’s really not a lot for the investment put in: there are 5 people listed as working at the Biologic Institute: 3 of them are on one paper from this year, the other 3 papers are by members with affiliations elsewhere. Over the last couple of years the results seem similar. Frankly, any research institute should be able to do better than 1 paper for every 5 scientific staff.

Note: Commenters have weighed in on various claims made by various other commenters, but the News desk was principally interested in the claim about lack of productivity. We’d heard elsewhere that the rate at Biologic Institute was not unreasonably slow, given the constraints of private funding and targeted hostility. So…

News:

Bob O’H at 3, I ran your comments by a researcher who said, “If Bob O H is part of a large group, and gets his name appended to all papers produced by that group he could have 8 papers. No single researcher can turn out that many at a time by himself. Not in biology.”

On the other hand, you could be unusually productive. You may perhaps be willing to provide a list of the papers.

In any event, it seems that the Biologic Institute list contains only some of the publications of some of the fellows (“a selected list”) – presumably the ones of most general interest to readers and supporters.

Bob O’H:

News – my list of papers is here. Most of it is done in collaboration, but I’m only one person, whereas the Biologic Institute is much larger than me. I’d also point out that the BI is “a large group”, so I’d expect it to be producing many more papers than I do.

If the list is only of select publications, can you get a complete list of publications from them?

So the knowledgeable person was requested to look at the linked list, and got back.

News:

Bob O’H at 16: I ran your list by someone who knows a bit of the background of BI, and their response was:

He’s ducking the issue. He has many more than 5 collaborators. I can’t even say how many without looking up the papers themselves (when there are more than three they get listed as et al). So he needs to compare apples to apples. At the BI, 2 papers are divided by 5 people to his 8 papers divided by at least 23 people.

If he wants to count apples.

We’ll see what he comes up with next.

Of course he doesn’t want to count apples! He wants to discredit and obliterate the Biologic Institute.

Like many of Darwin’s followers, he tends to inflate his own cred and disparage that of others. Here’s a prediction in no danger of being disconfirmed: No matter what happens in the coming years, that’ll continue. And there are always “aren’t I good?” girls, anxious to applaud.

As you can tell, it’s a slow news weekend. Luck of the dates this year. Got some good stuff coming up very soon though.

Follow UD News at Twitter!

Comments
velikovskys:
Except for the fact there is no design heuristic without knowledge of what is designed,...
True and ID's methodology helps in making that determination.
...how the design is implemented and some knowledge of the capabilities of the designer.
That is patently false. We still don't know how the Antikythera Mechanism was designed and built. And we know someone was capable of designing and building it because it exists and can be examined.Joe
January 3, 2015
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Has ID done much to advance our understanding of information theory? I can’t see much evidence that computer scientists and mathematicians are picking up and using these ideas.
We have picked up and are using their ideas. Also if ID is right then with respect to biological organisms there is more than matter, energy and what emerges from their interactions. I would think that would be very important, vital even, to biology.Joe
January 3, 2015
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First, it's not difficult to check my papers: the link I gave has links to all of them. I had 33 collaborators. The BI lists 13 people on their page, and these are all capable of collaborating with other researchers (and indeed on the 4 papers listed for the BI in 2014 there are 11 authors, 5 of whom aren't listed as members of the BI). Now, I don't think I'm especially productive: perhaps more so than most at my level of seniority, but also perhaps less. However, the BI has 5 members listed as working at the BI, plus 8 more associates members. So they have 13 times as many people as me, including 3 senior staff. I would expect them to be producing more papers than I am in a year: there is so much more man-power and financing (I just get my salary and a couple of thousand euros for travel). it was pointed out that the BI might not be listing all of its papers. If not I'd hope someone would be able to produce a complete list, so we can get a better comparison. I hope for the Disco Institute's sake that the list on the BI's pages isn't complete: if my institute had been as productive as that we would have been shut down.Bob O'H
January 3, 2015
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I don't think Bob was "preening" himself -- he didn't present himself as being unusually productive. He just asked where the impact was, and it seems to be absent.wd400
January 3, 2015
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Datcg: One does not need to believe in Darwinian religious history(Tree of Life) to perform operational genetics or design new cellular functions, hearts, organs or to study regenerative medicine. The Design Heuristic is the more profitable, productive paradigm going forward… Except for the fact there is no design heuristic without knowledge of what is designed,how the design is implemented and some knowledge of the capabilities of the designer.velikovskys
January 3, 2015
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news: I don’t know what velikovskys is talking about. The question raised, and discussed, concerned relative speed of paper production, not impact. And the reason that that speed is important is it's relation to the impact ID has had which is Bob's point which you included in your post. " Has ID done much to advance our understanding of information theory? I can’t see much evidence that computer scientists and mathematicians are picking up and using these ideas."velikovskys
January 3, 2015
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ID - Intelligent Design as operational science has been contributing to science 24 hours a day around the world for thousands of years. From shepherd's breeding sheep to Mendel, to today's latest engineers of cellular technology. One does not need to believe in Darwinian religious history(Tree of Life) to perform operational genetics or design new cellular functions, hearts, organs or to study regenerative medicine. The Design Heuristic is the more profitable, productive paradigm going forward... Design, Design, Design
"What I cannot create, I do not understand." That's a nice opening. It focuses the reader on what we often say: intelligent design is not a science stopper, it's a science starter. If you want to understand how cells work, try to create one.
DATCG
January 3, 2015
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#5 News... a bit of sarcasm ; -) duly noted.DATCG
January 3, 2015
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Okay, I'm a newser, not a scientist. Are you people telling me that the guy's job is measuring faces? Well, let's face it ... ;) I don't know what velikovskys is talking about. The question raised, and discussed, concerned relative speed of paper production, not impact. We can certainly discuss impact. One constraint is that there are a number of ways of measuring it. We can count on Darwin's followers to disagree with any measurement that demonstrates impact. So we can measure it, but not include them in the conversation at the same time. Incidentally, the eugenics gibe at 2 risks Godwin's law unless Bob O'H confirms that his intent is eugenic in character. Perhaps he will tell us later.News
January 3, 2015
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Some very interesting papers — the one about Finnish faces especially.Zachriel
January 3, 2015
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news: We’d heard elsewhere that the rate at Biologic Institute was not unreasonably slow, given the constraints of private funding and targeted hostility. So excuses aside, the claim that ID has contributed to scientific knowledge is false, at least with regard to published papers.velikovskys
January 3, 2015
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Example of one of his papers... Still measuring faces in Germany Does this methodology work better than Craniology? Turned out so well for Hitler and eugenics. Certainly good way to krank out a paper I guess. Fortunately a short, stout, often depressed, cigar-smoking Churchill and wheelchair bound Roosevelt defeated the socialist, eugenics-crazed fanatic of Germany. An ironic twist of fate. I'd like to postulate young, good looking people get more lead roles in Hollywood by measuring their faces from headshots. Can I get a research grant?DATCG
January 3, 2015
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I'd like to congratulate Bob on his publication record.Mung
January 3, 2015
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