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On Why Liars Lie

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In a previous post, I exposed yet another of eigenstate’s outrageous lies.  Then I asked:

The real question is what motivates him to engage in such insane denials? I have to admit that I am utterly flummoxed by it. He knows he is lying. I know he is lying. Everyone else who reads his comment knows he is lying. What in the world motivates such outrageous conduct? If I did not see it myself I would not believe it.

Commenter Charles replies:

He can’t help himself. It has become his nature. I have watched liars lie for years, and I have noted their inability to admit even the simplest of truths. I have observed their self-destructive behavior (as a consequence of losing the trust and charity essential in routine communication and cooperation) over matters both mundane and mission-critical.

This fellow suggests a mechanism for something I have suspected for years:

Dishonesty reduces applied intelligence: re-wires the brain

What I am suggesting is that, although the fundamental efficiency of neural processing is an hereditary characteristic which is robust to environmental differences and changes (short of something like destructive brain pathology – encephalitis, neurotoxin, head injury, dementia etc) – habitual dishonesty (such as is mainstream among the modern intellectual elite) will generate brain changes, and a long-lasting (although probably, eventually, reversible) pathology in applied intelligence – such that what ought to be simple and obvious inferential reasoning becomes impossible.

 

I would add impossible not only in communication with others but equally impossible when alone and merely analyzing (rationalizing) information they find disagreeable.

UPDATE:

After observing Carpathian’s hi-jinks in the comment thread to this post, Charles adds:

Carpathian demonstrates the corollary, why liars lie badly.

A consequence of chronic, pathological intellectual dishonesty is a narrowing of ones sphere of influence to other liars. A further consequence of which is the positive reinforcement from other liars that their lies are credible and compelling. But when those lies are trotted out to an informed and experienced audience, those same lies don’t pass muster and are recognized as vapid and vacuous.

 

Comments
Bob:
But I’d still like to see more reliable evidence for what Christ actually did, e.g. contemporary accounts from the time.
And you would probably not believe those accounts either. When someone does not want to believe, no amount of evidence is ever good enough. Learned Hand's resistance to the law of identity, if nothing else, teaches us that. Your comment reminded me of the rich man in Hades who asked Abraham to raise someone from the dead to go back and warn his brother. Abraham said no, because there was already plenty of evidence, Moses and the prophets. In Luke 16 we pick up the story:
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Barry Arrington
September 16, 2015
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Orloog @ 72 I don't believe that he did. Is there evidence that he did? Islamic teaching unanimously affirms the event. But its basis in Mohammad's eye-witness testimony is scant and vague. There is only one verse in the Koran that alludes to the event:
Glory to (God) Who did take His Servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque whose precincts We did bless, - in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).
Surah 17.1 This verse is interpreted as Mohammad affirming that he was raised up into heaven. If one gets past the vagueness of the verse and agrees with that interpretation -- i.e., that Mohammad affirmed that he was raised into heaven -- then there is in fact evidence that Mohammad was raised into heaven, i.e. his own eye-witness testimony. Now, the task is to evaluate the amount and quality of the evidence and make a determination about whether to believe that testimony. Having done that, I conclude that the proposition is far from proved. The amount and quality of the evidence for the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, by contract, is far superior in both amount and quality. I have evaluated that evidence and come to the conclusion that the affirmed events did in fact take place.Barry Arrington
September 16, 2015
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@Barry Arrington, so, Muhammad ascended to heaven, too?Orloog
September 16, 2015
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Bob, do you doubt that there was a man named Julius Caesar or that he fought wars in ancient Gaul?
Err, no. We have evidence, and not just texts.
If you don’t doubt the existence of Julius Caesar, it would seem that your skepticism is conveniently selective.
I don't understand this. I thought I had made it clear - I doubt the existence of Julius Caesar just as much as I doubt the existence of Jesus Christ. In what way is that conveniently selective?
That statement betrays a woeful ignorance of the historical record Bob. I do not have time to educate you today.
The earliest non-Gospel record is from about 60 years after Christ was wondering around, i.e. a whole generation later. I guess one could call that near-contemporary, so fair enough. Although I gather the mythicists are sceptical of that (and other scholars think that there was some subsequent Christian editing). But I'd still like to see more reliable evidence for what Christ actually did, e.g. contemporary accounts from the time.Bob O'H
September 16, 2015
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Folks, If you want a 101 on Jesus and why Christians think of him as we do on the strength of the 500 witnesses and transforming power manifested for 2000 years now, try here on: http://nicenesystheol.blogspot.com/2010/11/unit-1-biblical-foundations-of-and-core.html#u1_grnds For a deeper look, try Habermas here for starters: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0lNXgdbmAkeUWEtNVEyZ0tONmlkdUsxNC15V1Jrc281eXVr/view?pli=1 There is a lot of ill-informed dismissive hyperskepticism out there. A good case can be made that 1 Cor, which contains 15, is 55 AD, and speaks to incidents and a summary c 35 - 38 AD wth Peter, James, John and Paul directly involved. Lk-Ac makes best sense as composed 58 - 62 AD, and largely in contact with the witnesses in Palestine shortly before they were forever scattered by the wars from 66 AD on, which in turn puts Mk 40 - 50 AD, despite many speculations otherwise. And, there is no good historical reason to assign authorship other than traditional, indeed, the fact of authorship by Lk and Mk as apostolic men not Apostles, though themselves somewhat fringe participants, speaks for itself. It would be advisable to try the exercise in comparative historical explanations in the first linked for yourself. Finally, the opening words of Lk speak for themselves:
Lk 1: 1 Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things that have been accomplished among us, 2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us, 3 it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught.
In short, a solemn declaration to intent to write history, under circumstances of the most solemn duty of truth, and in the face of a situation where life could be forfeit for the truth, and soul for the untruth. I hardly need to add that for a century and more, Luke has shone as a careful, diligent historically focussed writer. We are back to, whose report we will believe, why. KFkairosfocus
September 16, 2015
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Aleta,
But I know any more comment is futile.
Aleta: "The fact that people have written lots of words about Jesus, . . . is not documentation that the actual event happened." Yes, I am pretty sure I can't top that.Barry Arrington
September 16, 2015
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Barry writes,
So, you are a dogmatist. It is, of course, futile to argue with a dogmatist.
Well, that's the pot calling the kettle black, in spades. But I know any more comment is futile.Aleta
September 16, 2015
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Bob and Aleta alternately play the part of Richard Dawkins in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d4FHHf00pYBarry Arrington
September 16, 2015
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Bob, do you doubt that there was a man named Julius Caesar or that he fought wars in ancient Gaul? But the texts documenting that event are far less reliable -- by several orders of magnitude -- than the texts documenting the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If you don't doubt the existence of Julius Caesar, it would seem that your skepticism is conveniently selective.
there’s no near-contemporary evidence for his existence (in contrast to Julius Caesar’s existence, where we have coins, statues etc.
That statement betrays a woeful ignorance of the historical record Bob. I do not have time to educate you today. But you really should take some time to educate yourself on the topic. Barry Arrington
September 16, 2015
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Aleta,
Whoever the man Jesus was, he was mythologized by his followers.
So, you are a dogmatist. It is, of course, futile to argue with a dogmatist.Barry Arrington
September 16, 2015
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Aleta,
The fact that people have written lots of words about Jesus, . . . is not documentation that the actual event happened.
Good grief.Barry Arrington
September 16, 2015
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Because the truth of the matter — that Jesus Christ did in fact die; and that he was in fact buried; and that he was in fact resurrected — is one of the most reliably documented events in all of human history, just as I said.
Really? Show us the reliable documentation of the event! There may well be lots of texts around, but none were written at the time, so how do we know how reliable they are? There are, after all, a lot of copies of the Harry Potter books around, but they're not reliable history. Some people argue that Jesus Christ didn't even exist, citing (in part) the lack of any direct evidence: outside of the Gospels there's no near-contemporary evidence for his existence (in contrast to Julius Caesar's existence, where we have coins, statues etc.). I certainly don't go as far as the mythicists who claim that Christ never existed, but I would also like to see a wider range of evidence for what actually happened.Bob O'H
September 16, 2015
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The fact that people have written lots of words about Jesus, and that Christianity became the dominant religion in the Western world is not documentation that the actual event happened. People, especially uneducated people, are notorious for having superstitious beliefs - we see that all over the world today and it has been no different throughout history. Whoever the man Jesus was, he was mythologized by his followers. Their conclusion that Jesus was the son of God, while based on actual events, is not documented.Aleta
September 16, 2015
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Aleta,
"Given that Barry must know that his statement is not true . . ."
Like when you, a math teacher, pointed to adding velocities as a case where 2+2=4 is false, all the while knowing that your example is false and intentionally designed to mislead. Ouch. No, I stand by my statement. The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events in history. What is today? Why, all over the world -- even officially atheist Cuba -- it is September 16, 2015 anno Domini. And who, exactly, is the "Domini" in that phrase? Jesus Christ. You see, Aleta, every time you write a check (or any other document with a date on it), you do a little celebration of the most important man in the history of the human race. And why is he the most important man in the human race? Because of the documents. The Bible is, by far, the best selling book of all time, with some 5 billion copies printed. Why is that? Because the truth of the matter -- that Jesus Christ did in fact die; and that he was in fact buried; and that he was in fact resurrected -- is one of the most reliably documented events in all of human history, just as I said. I will give you a point of comparison. Counting only Greek copies (in other words not counting early “versions” – translations into non-Greek languages), there are over 5,600 ancient manuscripts of the various books of the New Testament. Including the versions brings the total to nearly 25,000. The earliest of such date to a few decades after the events documented. Compare that to a near contemporary event -- Caesar’s Gallic Wars – 9 (yes that is right "9") good copies, the oldest of which is 900 years after Ceasar’s time. Do you, Aleta, have even the merest hint of a doubt that there was an actual man named Julius Caesar or that he fought wars in ancient Gaul? If not, how much more should you believe in the historical account of Jesus, which is better documented by many orders of magnitude? Thus, Jesus' death, burial and resurrection was, by far, the most well documented event in the first, 4,900 years of the 5,000 years of recorded history. That in the age of mass media it is common to have better documented events does not change that fact.Barry Arrington
September 16, 2015
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Given that Barry must know that his statement is not true, either he could have been mistaken and will admit his error, or, if not, the question in the title of this thread will apply.Aleta
September 16, 2015
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@Axel: This isn't about a religion, it is just about a statement about an historical event which Barry Arrington made:
The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most reliably documented events in all of human history.
For me, this statement is preposterous - as there are obviously better documented events in modern times. And I don't think that it is correct, even when it is rephrased as.
The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most reliably documented events of its time.
B. Arrington seems to think that this statement is true, so I ask him how he comes to his conclusion.Orloog
September 16, 2015
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Bob O'H, Roy and Orloog, you try and start a religion with the slogans: 'Take up your cross daily and follow me'; and: 'He who loses his life for my sake shall gain it. Then see if you can get it to last 2000 years, while becoming the hegemonic religion of the culture that was to develop science and technology for the rest of the world - peoples who neither were nor are one whit less intelligent than the Europeans of ailing Christendom. Actions speak louder than words, and the chronicles of the technological development of Christendom and Western culture are all the documents you need. However, you may prefer the short-cut of studying the scientific findings in one of the YouTube videos relating to the Shroud of Turin. All performed by eminently-qualified scientists. Now you prove - in the teeth of the conviction of virtually all the most distinguished scientists in the history of science to the contrary, that nature was not designed. Wake up, Christmas!Axel
September 16, 2015
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To elaborate: Even if we look only at events which happened two millenia ago, the crucification of Jesus Christ isn't well documented - we don't even know its exact date! Compare this with the death of Julius Caesar or the destruction of Pompeii...Orloog
September 16, 2015
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I have no problems with people believing that Jesus died and was resurrected. Rather, I would hope they would be realistic about the amount of evidence for these events
I suspect the problem - for comparing the resurrection with other events of that century, not for the whole of human history - is twofold: first, that those making the claim that the resurrection is well documented are simply unaware of the amount of evidence available for e.g the burial of Pompeii, the Roman invasions of Britain or the destruction of the temple; second, that they are unaware of the provenance of the gospel accounts.Roy
September 16, 2015
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The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most reliably documented events in all of human history.
How so?Orloog
September 16, 2015
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The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most reliably documented events in all of human history.
I must admit I find this an utterly bizarre statement (sorry, Barry). Is it really better documented than 9/11, the fall of the Berlin Wall, or England's 2003 Rugby World Cup win? As far as I'm aware, we have less than 10 close-to contemporary sources about Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, none of which is believe by scholars to be written by an eye-witness, and none was written until at least a few of decades after the events described. All of which makes me wonder why Barry wrote that. Does he have access to some other sources? Does he think that a few second-hand accounts are more reliable than TV footage? Or does he, in fact, not think that "[t]he death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most reliably documented events in all of human history"? (I should emphasise that I am not attacking anyone's faith. I have no problems with people believing that Jesus died and was resurrected. Rather, I would hope they would be realistic about the amount of evidence for these events)Bob O'H
September 16, 2015
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To further solidify the inference that the person of Jesus Christ is 'the truth' as He claimed, I submit that the Shroud of Turin provides empirical evidence for the unification of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics (QED) into the much sought after 'theory of everything': First, Gravity was overcome in the resurrection event of Christ:
Particle Radiation from the Body – July 2012 – M. Antonacci, A. C. Lind Excerpt: The Shroud’s frontal and dorsal body images are encoded with the same amount of intensity, independent of any pressure or weight from the body. The bottom part of the cloth (containing the dorsal image) would have born all the weight of the man’s supine body, yet the dorsal image is not encoded with a greater amount of intensity than the frontal image. Radiation coming from the body would not only explain this feature, but also the left/right and light/dark reversals found on the cloth’s frontal and dorsal body images. https://docs.google.com/document/d/19tGkwrdg6cu5mH-RmlKxHv5KPMOL49qEU8MLGL6ojHU/edit A Quantum Hologram of Christ’s Resurrection? by Chuck Missler Excerpt: “You can read the science of the Shroud, such as total lack of gravity, lack of entropy (without gravitational collapse), no time, no space—it conforms to no known law of physics.” The phenomenon of the image brings us to a true event horizon, a moment when all of the laws of physics change drastically. Dame Piczek created a one-fourth size sculpture of the man in the Shroud. When viewed from the side, it appears as if the man is suspended in mid air (see graphic, below), indicating that the image defies previously accepted science. The phenomenon of the image brings us to a true event horizon, a moment when all of the laws of physics change drastically. http://www.khouse.org/articles/2008/847 THE EVENT HORIZON (Space-Time Singularity) OF THE SHROUD OF TURIN. – Isabel Piczek – Particle Physicist Excerpt: We have stated before that the images on the Shroud firmly indicate the total absence of Gravity. Yet they also firmly indicate the presence of the Event Horizon. These two seemingly contradict each other and they necessitate the past presence of something more powerful than Gravity that had the capacity to solve the above paradox. http://shroud3d.com/findings/isabel-piczek-image-formation Turin shroud – (Particle Physicist explains event horizon) – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHVUGK6UFK8
Moreover, as would also be expected if General Relativity (Gravity), and Quantum Mechanics/Special Relativity (QED), were truly unified in the resurrection of Christ from death, the image on the shroud is found to be formed by a quantum process. The image was not formed by a ‘classical’ process:
“It is not a continuum or spherical-front radiation that made the image, as visible or UV light. It is not the X-ray radiation that obeys the one over R squared law that we are so accustomed to in medicine. It is more unique. It is suggested that the image was formed when a high-energy particle struck the fiber and released radiation within the fiber at a speed greater that the local speed of light. Since the fiber acts as a light pipe, this energy moved out through the fiber until it encountered an optical discontinuity, then it slowed to the local speed of light and dispersed. The fact that the pixels don’t fluoresce suggests that the conversion to their now brittle dehydrated state occurred instantly and completely so no partial products remain to be activated by the ultraviolet light. This suggests a quantum event where a finite amount of energy transferred abruptly. The fact that there are images front and back suggests the radiating particles were released along the gravity vector. The radiation pressure may also help explain why the blood was “lifted cleanly” from the body as it transformed to a resurrected state.” Kevin Moran – optical engineer The absorbed energy in the Shroud body image formation appears as contributed by discrete values – Giovanni Fazio, Giuseppe Mandaglio – 2008 Excerpt: This result means that the optical density distribution,, can not be attributed at the absorbed energy described in the framework of the classical physics model. It is, in fact, necessary to hypothesize a absorption by discrete values of the energy where the ‘quantum’ is equal to the one necessary to yellow one fibril. http://cab.unime.it/journals/index.php/AAPP/article/view/C1A0802004/271
Personally, considering the extreme difficulty that many brilliant minds have had in trying to reconcile Quantum Mechanics and special relativity(QED), with Gravity,
A Capella Science – Bohemian Gravity! – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rjbtsX7twc Bohemian Gravity – Rob Sheldon – September 19, 2013 Excerpt: there’s a large contingent of physicists who believe that string theory is the heroin of theoretical physics. It has absorbed not just millions of dollars, but hundreds if not thousands of grad student lifetimes without delivering what it promised–a unified theory of the universe and life. It is hard, in fact, to find a single contribution from string theory despite 25 years of intense effort by thousands of the very brightest and best minds our society can find. http://rbsp.info/PROCRUSTES/bohemian-gravity/
Considering that extreme difficulty, I consider the preceding ‘quantum’ nuance on the Shroud of Turin to be a subtle, but powerful, evidence substantiating Christ’s primary claim as to being our Savior from sin, death, and hell:
John 8:23-24 But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins. G.O.S.P.E.L. – (the grace of propitiation) – poetry slam – video https://vimeo.com/20960385 Matthew 10:28 “Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Colossians 1:15-20 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Evanescence – The Other Side (Music-Lyric Video) http://www.vevo.com/watch/evanescence/the-other-side-lyric-video/USWV41200024?source=instantsearch
bornagain77
September 15, 2015
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Roy: Do you agree that Mr Arrington’s claim is, as written, ridiculous? No. Why should i?Mung
September 15, 2015
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I think liars lie for pretty much the same reason that truth tellers tell the truth. Because they want to.Mung
September 15, 2015
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The Shroud Of Turin - An Enduring Mystery - Dr. Ray Schnieder - 5 part lecture series
Dr. Schneider Five Part Series - Part 1: Introduction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsDm1IyVd2w Dr. Schneider Five Part Series - Part 2: Science https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17d0YTfUbwU Dr. Schneider Five Part Series - Part 3: History https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI-0v-p18IA Dr. Schneider Five Part Series - Part 4: Skeptics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBTuqkYWJ_Q Dr. Schneider Five Part Series - Part 5: Conclusion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQg7kiXmsnk The Shroud Of Turin - An Enduring Mystery - Dr. Ray Schnieder - homepage with links to powerpoints for each lecture http://www.shrouduniversity.com/schneider5part.php
"strips of linen" objection:
Shroud Of Turin - Sewn From Two Pieces - 2000 Years Old (Matches Masada Cloth) – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uST6qt9pfoo The Shroud of Turin - Evidence it is authentic Excerpt: In June 2002, the Shroud was sent to a team of experts for restoration. One of them was Swiss textile historian Mechthild Flury-Lemberg. She was surprised to find a peculiar stitching pattern in the seam of one long side of the Shroud, where a three-inch wide strip of the same original fabric was sewn onto a larger segment. The stitching pattern, which she says was the work of a professional, is quite similar to the hem of a cloth found in the tombs of the Jewish fortress of Masada. The Masada cloth dates to between 40 BC and 73 AD. This kind of stitch has never been found in Medieval Europe. http://www.newgeology.us/presentation24.html
Verse and Music:
John 20:3-8 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus’ head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. "Alive" - W,Lyrics, By Natalie Grant - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AFpgzjRD44
bornagain77
September 15, 2015
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Spot the difference:
The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most reliably documented events in all of human history.
Narrative fail, Roy. Obviously, the historicity of the Resurrection was being compared to other events around the same time period.
Obviously it wasn't. Do you agree that Mr Arrington's claim is, as written, ridiculous? Also:
As such, it is extraordinarily well-documented, with multiple contemporaneous accounts from eyewitnesses.
Since none of the gospels were contemporaneous with the crucifixion* and none claim to be eyewitness testimony, to which accounts are you referring? *the consensus seems to be that the earliest was penned more than 20 years laterRoy
September 15, 2015
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Roy 45 "The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most reliably documented events in all of human history. No, it is not. There is no photograph, audio recording, newspaper article, court transcript, diary entry, contemporary drawing/sculpture, amateur video, government report, physical trace, write-up, forensic evidence, newsreel, autobiography, signed statement, inscription, electronic document or medical record." ---------------------------------------------------------- Narrative fail, Roy. Obviously, the historicity of the Resurrection was being compared to other events around the same time period. As such, it is extraordinarily well-documented, with multiple contemporaneous accounts from eyewitnesses. Note that the body disappeared and no one -- NO ONE -- was ever able to produce it, or even claim to do so. Note also that the accounts of the Resurrection and post-Resurrection appearances of Jesus were published in public when many eyewitnesses were still alive who could shoot it down if it were not true to their own experiences. Note, finally, that the apostles all proclaimed the Resurrection their entire lives, even to the point of martyrdom. Hard to believe this was some cooked up conspiracy.anthropic
September 15, 2015
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It is interesting that Carpathian, when called on the carpet for his incessant lying about facts in evidence, would, instead of honestly admitting that he is a pathological liar and then mending his ways accordingly, instead tried to turn the topic around to Christianity.
"But I see that behavior in Christians. People lie to themselves every day that the “son of God” gave his life to save the souls of humans."
The reason it is interesting that Carpathian would, in a post entitled 'Why Liars Lie', try to focus on Christianity instead of focusing on his penchant for lying about anything and everything that remotely points to Intelligent Design, is that Jesus made some very specific claims regarding His relationship to truth. Specifically, Jesus said he is 'the truth'.
John 14:1-6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
That claim is a remarkable claim and is in stark contrast to the claims of other leading religious figures throughout history who claimed that their teachings were more important than their own person. i.e. Only Jesus declared his person to be even more important than his teachings:
'Other than Christ, no other religious leader was foretold a thousand years before he arrived, nor was anything said about where he would be born, why he would come, how he would live, and when he would die. No other religious leader claimed to be God, or performed miracles, or rose from the dead. No other religious leader grounded his doctrine in historical facts. No other religious leader declared his person to be even more important than his teachings.' - StephenB - UD Blogger JESUS AS GOD By Ben Witherington, III Excerpt: But there are other indirect ways that Jesus signals who He is. For example, uniquely Jesus chooses to precede His own pronouncements with the term "amen," a term normally used by the congregation to affirm the truthfulness of what someone else says after they say it. Not so with Jesus. He vouches for the truthfulness of His own words in advance of offering them! He does not need others to bear witness to him in order to validate the truthfulness of his words. http://www.4truth.net/fourtruthpbjesus.aspx?pageid=8589952873
Thus it is interesting that Carpathian, in a post dedicated to the pathological tendency of militant atheists to lie about anything and everything that points to Intelligent Design, would, in his first post on the subject, try to focus on Christianity. Out of all the subjects of Intelligent Design that Carp could have focused on, such as say any evidence whatsoever contradicting the claim that he is a pathological liar when it comes to the Design inference, why would he focus on solely Christianity in particular in his first post? and why specifically on Christ's resurrection? Well, I hold that it merely further validates the point of the post, namely that he can't help himself when he lies, and I also hold that it further validates Christ's claim the He is 'the truth'. Think about it, what else would be the ultimate goal of a determined pathological liar save for vainly trying to destroy 'the truth'? Thus his focus on Christ gives him away.
John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Of note to the resurrection: The finding of a photographic negative image on the Shroud of Turin is still as much a mystery today as when it was first discovered by Secondo Pia in 1898.
A short film about the first photographic negative taken of the shroud of Turin in 1898 by Secondo Pia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTeKu2-3hRk Shroud Of Turin - Photographic Negative - 3D Hologram reveals solid oval object with the words “ The Lamb” - video http://www.tunesbaby.com/watch/?x=5664213 Shroud of Turin - Carbon 14 Test Proven False – - Joseph G. Marino and M. Sue Benford - video (with Raymond Rogers, lead chemist from the STURP project) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxDdx6vxthE Shroud Of Turin Is Authentic, Italian Study Suggests - December 2011 Excerpt: Last year scientists were able to replicate marks on the cloth using highly advanced ultraviolet techniques that weren’t available 2,000 years ago — nor during the medieval times, for that matter.,,, Since the shroud and “all its facets” still cannot be replicated using today’s top-notch technology, researchers suggest it is impossible that the original image could have been created in either period. http://www.thegopnet.com/shroud-of-turin-is-authentic-italian-study-suggests-87037 Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - December 2011 Excerpt: After years of work trying to replicate the colouring on the shroud, a similar image has been created by the scientists. However, they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax. Such technology, say researchers from the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (Enea), was far beyond the capability of medieval forgers, whom most experts have credited with making the famous relic. "The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin," they said. And in case there was any doubt about the preternatural degree of energy needed to make such distinct marks, the Enea report spells it out: "This degree of power cannot be reproduced by any normal UV source built to date." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-say-turin-shroud-is-supernatural-6279512.html The Center Of The Universe Is Life! - General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, Entropy and The Shroud Of Turin - video http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=9FCEMJNU
Verse:
1 John 1:5-7 "This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."
bornagain77
September 15, 2015
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Carpathian, let us go back to eigenstate's statement. Do you agree with him that the two statements mean the same thing?Barry Arrington
September 15, 2015
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The death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most reliably documented events in all of human history.
No, it is not. There is no photograph, audio recording, newspaper article, court transcript, diary entry, contemporary drawing/sculpture, amateur video, government report, physical trace, write-up, forensic evidence, newsreel, autobiography, signed statement, inscription, electronic document or medical record. There are historical events which have most of even all of the above: the JFK assassination, the Titanic disaster, the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Wright Brothers' flight, the fall of the Berlin Wall, the Scopes trial and many, many more. To claim that the resurrection is reliably documented in comparison to events such as these is insane.Roy
September 15, 2015
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