Wikileaks hits the jackpot: “. . . an unaware and compliant citizenry”

JAD, cultural marxist agip prop/ community organisers (who must first dis-organise what they see as the oppressive old order) at work per the rules for radicals of Saul Alinsky. In this case, Sophia long since answered them as naifs caught up in what they don't understand, or ill-advised mockers or outright fools given over to marches of ruinous folly:

Prov 1:20 Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice; 21 at the head of the noisy streets she cries out; at the entrance of the city gates she speaks: 22 “How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple? How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing and fools hate knowledge? 23 If you turn at my reproof,[a] behold, I will pour out my spirit to you; I will make my words known to you. 24 Because I have called and you refused to listen, have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded, 25 because you have ignored all my counsel and would have none of my reproof, 26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when terror strikes you, 27 when terror strikes you like a storm and your calamity comes like a whirlwind, when distress and anguish come upon you. 28 Then they will call upon me, but I will not answer; they will seek me diligently but will not find me. 29 Because they hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the Lord, 30 would have none of my counsel and despised all my reproof, 31 therefore they shall eat the fruit of their way, and have their fill of their own devices. 32 For the simple are killed by their turning away, and the complacency of fools destroys them; 33 but whoever listens to me will dwell secure and will be at ease, without dread of disaster.”

Sophia, that fine Jewish lady gave her counsels 3,000 years ago; that en-scriptured counsel still stands, every jot and tittle of it. It will be left standing long after the cackling, mocking laughter of today's fools on a stubborn march of ruinous folly has long since burned down to ashes under the pot. Start with, the fool hath said in his heart, that there is no God. And has proceeded to lock the root of reality out of what he will admit to be knowledge. As things fall over the cliff through stubborn folly, let us understand that. KF kairosfocus

Q, I am clipping, i.e. quoting Lind. KF kairosfocus

At the end of his article Pecknold writes that ”ABC News political analyst Matthew Dowd tweeted after the leaks: ‘My fellow Catholics, you are aware that a majority of Catholics are pro-choice and pro gay marriage, right?’ Mr. Dowd perfectly illustrates how the progressive faith is a kind of ‘ideological colonization…’” Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441074/podesta-leaks-catholicism-undermined Please note:

Dowd, along with other MSM journalists, appears to be assuming that the wikileaks emails are authentic. As I said above that has yet to be fully established. Nevertheless, there is too much detail there to have realistically been faked or made up.

But also one has to question whether:

As a journalist, is it ethical for Dowd to publicly advocate for sweeping and historic religious reformation? I would argue that it is not. Why would ABC News, whom he publicly represents, allow him to take such a position? For example, while political reporters can vote, they can’t actively campaign for a political party or candidate. As a Catholic what authority does he have to advocate for such a change? Catholics see the authority for its teaching coming from God through the Bible and the church. As a Christian what authority does he have to advocate for such a change? While Protestants disagree with Catholics about authority of church they agree that God’s authority comes from God through the Bible. No single believer has the right or authority to change fundamental Christian thinking. Who gave Dowd that right? If he is dissatisfied with his religion why doesn’t he look elsewhere rather than try to change it for everyone else? Of course this is quite typical of secular progressives, who in spite paying a lot of lip service to noble ideas like freedom/empowerment, equality and tolerance, are actually very authoritarian and intolerant when it comes to traditional values and institutions, which they falsely believe are oppressive and/or repressive.

Once again we have an example of the total corruption of a MSM outlet. john_a_designer

KF writes,

If Brave New World’s motto is “Think globally, act locally,” ours should be “Think locally, act locally.”

Or individually. If the Elites want to control a society from its institutions and culture, it's really no different than the worst of the Medieval Catholic church. My view is that if a house is burning down and I can't put out the fire, I will try to rescue those trapped inside rather than shoring up the timbers. Yes, I might get killed in the rescue attempts when things inevitably come crashing down. I'm willing to accept this. -Q Querius

JAD, Pecknold indeed asks some very pointed questions and raises a highly significant issue. What I find also highly suggestive is the thinking in terms of setting up a framework for an astroturfed "Catholic Spring" agit prop subversion from 2005 on, in a context where the Middle East was destabilised in the 2011 - 12 period by a series of street level uprisings that failed to deliver genuine democratisation. Instead they did by and large what radical revolutionaries usually end up triggering: lead to takeover by the most ruthless and prepared. In this case, the Islam-ISTS; who were often presented to us in "moderate" clothing; now looking a bit tattered given what ISIS has been doing to those it seized power over. This led to a fresh round of wars and a serious geostrategic deterioration, which we can readily assign to the Obama-Clinton foreign policy. In that context, the White House's patent lies and scapegoating over the company scale attack on the US Embassy facility in Benghazi speak volumes about foreign policy failure. With the underlying issue coming out also that it was smuggling arms to support ISIS (which seems also to be backed by oil sheikdoms). This throws a stark light on the subsequent chaos in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, spilling over into Turkey and threatening Jordan and Israel. No wonder Russia intervened on the behalf of a long term ally, Syria; using its longstanding bases. (Did you ever wonder about the significant continuity of Russian foreign policy post collapse of the USSR? Think geostrategically!) Where of course the media by and large have shown an utter lack of interest in the underlying dynamics, by sharp contrast with the Bush era, and, lo and behold, no street level grand protest movements. All of this is revealing on the Alinsky Rules for Radicals/ "Community Organizer" -influenced cultural marxist thought and agit prop strategies at work in the West and across the world. KF PS: Why is it that there has been so little general media interest in drawing out and addressing just what a "Community Organizer" of the Chicago school founded by Saul Alinsky is, and how such would operate if given access to levers of power? Why is it that Wikipedia suppressed its page on cultural marxism? Lind has some significant 4th Gen War influenced perspectives: https://web.archive.org/web/20130801090250/http://www.westernrevival.org/who_stole_our_culture.htm . . . let me clip:

Gramsci famously laid out a strategy for destroying Christianity and Western culture, one that has proven all too successful. Instead of calling for a Communist revolution up front, as in Russia, he said Marxists in the West should take political power last, after a "long march through the institutions" – the schools, the media, even the churches, every institution that could influence the culture. That "long march through the institutions" is what America has experienced, especially since the 1960s . . . . [In the 1950's] Horkheimer and the other Frankfurt School members decided that the key to destroying Western culture was to cross Marx with Freud. They argued that just as workers were oppressed under capitalism, so under Western culture, everyone lived in a constant state of psychological repression. "Liberating" everyone from that repression became one of cultural Marxism's main goals. Even more important, they realized that psychology offered them a far more powerful tool than philosophy for destroying Western culture: psychological conditioning. Today, when Hollywood's cultural Marxists want to "normalize" something like homosexuality (thus "liberating" us from "repression"), they put on television show after television show where the only normal-seeming white male is a homosexual. That is how psychological conditioning works; people absorb the lessons the cultural Marxists want them to learn without even knowing they are being taught . . . . To serve its purpose of "negating" Western culture, the Frankfurt School developed a powerful tool it called "Critical Theory." What was the theory? The theory was to criticize. By subjecting every traditional institution, starting with family, to endless, unremitting criticism (the Frankfurt School was careful never to define what it was for, only what it was against), it hoped to bring them down. Critical Theory is the basis for the "studies" departments that now inhabit American colleges and universities. Not surprisingly, those departments are the home turf of academic political correctness . . . . {much more of details] . . . . The question is, what are we, as Christians and as cultural conservatives, going to do about it? We can choose between two strategies. The first is to try to retake the existing institutions – the public schools, the universities, the media, the entertainment industry and most of the mainline churches – from the cultural Marxists. They expect us to try to do that, they are ready for it, and we would find ourselves, with but small voice and few resources compared to theirs, making a frontal assault against prepared defensive positions. Any soldier can tell you what that almost always leads to: defeat. There is another, more promising strategy. We can separate ourselves and our families from the institutions the cultural Marxists control and build new institutions for ourselves, institutions that reflect and will help us recover our traditional Western culture. Several years ago, my colleague Paul Weyrich wrote an open letter to the conservative movement suggesting this strategy. While most other conservative (really Republican) leaders demurred, his letter resonated powerfully with grass-roots conservatives. Many of them are already part of a movement to secede from the corrupt, dominant culture and create parallel institutions: the homeschooling movement. Similar movements are beginning to offer sound alternatives in other aspects of life, including movements to promote small, often organic family farms and to develop community markets for those farms' products. If Brave New World's motto is "Think globally, act locally," ours should be "Think locally, act locally." Thus, our strategy for undoing what cultural Marxism has done to America has a certain parallel to its own strategy, as Gramsci laid it out so long ago. Gramsci called for Marxists to undertake a "long march through the institutions." Our counter-strategy would be a long march to create our own institutions. It will not happen quickly, or easily. It will be the work of generations – as was theirs. [--> think about what would happen were we to undergo civilisational collapse similar to that of the W Roman Empire, multiplied by WMDs, e.g. several Iranian nukes triggering massive EMP-driven technological breakdown. Ask yourself, what would be needed to check re-subversion, or simply using force under colour of law backed up by toxic smears drummed out endlessly by media indoctrination in dominant but false and slanderous narratives, to crush undesirable . . . "deplorable" . . . alternatives.] They were patient, because they knew the "inevitable forces of history" were on their side. Can we not be equally patient, and persevering, knowing that the Maker of history is on ours?

kairosfocus

Here is a very interesting and insightful analysis of the wikileaks emails submitted to National Review Online by C. C. Pecknold, an associate professor of theology at the Catholic University of America in Washington, D.C. Professor Pecknold writes that…

The e-mails give us a special window onto this esoteric “form of religion,” which is rarely spoken about. Progressivism — a secularized, and in these writers’ [Podesta et al.] view purified, form of progressive Protestant Christianity — is the one true faith. This kind of liberalism is parasitic upon true Christianity, but it holds it in utter disdain. And it follows that the most ancient form of Christianity, Catholicism, should become its very special target.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441074/podesta-leaks-catholicism-undermined What is troubling is the very subversive and coercive nature of this so-called secular progressive movement. There may be some forms of secularism that want to peacefully coexist with traditional Christian and non-Christian religions, not the currently dominant secular progressive left which is pushing for social change under the phony and disingenuous banner of equal rights. To achieve its goals it seeks to undermine and destroy traditional religious belief and moral values. Look at it this way: if nobody has any rights then we will have equal rights. I am afraid that is the direction that secular progressive agenda is trying to take us. john_a_designer

Vy, Churchill in fine form, and it seems, after Italy blocked the first threats of Nazi Germany against Austria. Before, the French and British drove the two dictators together in a fatal axis after Mussolini's grasping for empire in Abyssinia. Vienna, of course being a dual gateway to SE Europe, and to Central Europe as 1529 and 1683 forever showed. Oh, how soon we have forgotten! KF kairosfocus

... many of the Elites will discover that they were only considered “useful idiots” by the inner circle, and they will find themselves in re-education camps as happened in the former Soviet Union.

So true!

"When the situation was manageable it was neglected, and now that it is thoroughly out of hand we apply too late the remedies which then might have effected a cure. There is nothing new in the story. It is as old as the sibylline books. It falls into that long, dismal catalogue of the fruitlessness of experience and the confirmed unteachability of mankind. Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong–these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history."

My aim was to post "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" but I stumbled upon that gem. Vy

Thanks for the great insights and thoughtful replies, KF (and others). The way that humans traditionally “voted” was by force of arms, often with massive and irrational bloodshed. Thomas Jefferson famously noted that “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” I seem to remember that he thought that this should occur about every ten years or so. So a bold experiment has been conducted to establish a government of the people, which has offered unprecedented opportunity for immigrants such as myself. However, some people who consider themselves “the Elite” have been working tirelessly to gain control over the constitutional mechanisms that were designed to ensure reasonably fair popular representation. This is a clear indication of their contempt for the common person, and their intent to establish a wonderful new society managed by them—in other words, a tyranny. They are succeeding. One institution at a time has fallen under their control: the press, the film industry, the educational system, academia, many of the circuit courts, the IRS, now the FBI, and soon perhaps the Supreme Court, and so on. Sadly, many seminaries, churches, and synagogues are functionally atheistic, and now view themselves as agents of social change. As a devout, joy-filled Christian, I really don’t have time to argue against their spectacularly failed utopian ideologies and self-centered aspirations. As we can see on this forum, none of the materialists have been affected in the slightest, let alone have ever changed their minds regardless of overwhelming evidence and logic. Their thinking comprises rationalizations and personal attacks all the way down. To them, their groundless assertions constitute irrefutable proof. I will vote and as long as voting isn’t completely fraudulent—which is now becoming questionable. The bright spot is that the Department of Homeland Security wants to take over voting, which means that the Elite are becoming impatient. But I will absolutely NOT oppose the Elites, who will soon be our overlords, with force. Considering the militarization of our police and the purchase of one or two billion rounds of .40 caliber ammunition by US government agencies, I don’t think non-violence is being planned by government bureaucrats against those who are not docile-enough subjects. What’s ironic is that after a brutal bureaucratic dictatorship has finally been established in the US, many of the Elites will discover that they were only considered “useful idiots” by the inner circle, and they will find themselves in re-education camps as happened in the former Soviet Union. Also ironic will be that the economic collapse inevitably follows will naturally be blamed on the hated group of the moment. And of course, what passes as journalism will continue to revel in how Fair things have become, now that everyone is equally enslaved in abject poverty. Except the Deserving Elites, of course. Again . . .

. . . if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 2 Peter 2:9 (NIV)

In obedience to Jesus, I do not consider this my fight, so I'm trying to rescue as many people as I can from the judgment to come when even the Elites will find themselves standing ashamed before God. -Q Querius

JAD, that reads very much like a confession as to the astroturfing behind various street level agit prop movements, likely including cases such as the Arab spring, so called. The Alinsky signature is plain. KF kairosfocus

To be fair we are still not sure if the wikileaks emails are authentic. Whether or not they are, they do reveal a lot of what we already knew about secular progressive thinking and activism, along with the left leaning bias of the mainstream media. One of the things that is most troubling about the secular progressive agenda is its extreme animus towards people of faith (especially Catholics and evangelicals) or people who simply want to adhere to traditional moral values. For example, the Washinton Post reports that one wikileaks “email that was released appears to suggest that Clinton’s campaign set up Catholic groups to organize on issues such as contraception. Sandy Newman, president of Voices for Progress, wrote in an 2011 email to Podesta that there needs to be ‘a Catholic Spring,’ referring to the ‘Arab Spring,’ a wave of demonstrations and protests in the Arab world… “Podesta responded that the [Clinton] campaign had created the groups Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good and Catholics United ‘to organize for a moment like this.’” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/10/12/wikileaks-emails-show-clinton-spokeswoman-joking-about-catholics-and-evangelicals/ The first amendment of the U.S. Constitution states, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” Please note! That is not an invitation for political parties to meddle in peoples religious beliefs. Even if some or all of the wikileaks memos turn out to be fakes (which is very doubtful) there is more than enough evidence already out there to prove that this is exactly how activists on the secular progressive left think. john_a_designer

Pindi: That’s so funny. You guys are the poor lost souls. Born in the wrong century. Unable to progress. I actually feel sorry for you It must be a terrible experience, hating the modern world. Really? feel sorry? I don't believe it for a second. Materialists come here and it has nothing to do with sympathy. They come to prove they not only have an intellectually superior mode of function, but to use that superiority to slay the perceived dragon of theism or possibly dualism - IOW to feed their egos. And why this would be so important they can't seem to address. It seems that there is a tar baby effect because when I ask materialists why they keep commenting here over the years, there is never an answer. Oh and that idea of progress. To you guys progress always seems to be a perceived intellectual thing. IOW to progress you have to become more heavily rational/intellectual. As if that would work for a suffering soul with Tourette's syndrome. So if you would, please point to the "progress" that scientific materialism has made in ridding a person of symptoms of that condition. Progress, right, you guys have the monopoly, of course. groovamos

PPPS: Some basic discipleship and basic (cell scale) leadership stuff: 6, on first steps in discipleship: http://www.angelfire.com/pro/kairosfocus/resources/ABCD.pdf 7, on renewal for Christians: http://www.angelfire.com/pro/kairosfocus/resources/Why_Not_Now.pdf 8, on cell-scale leadership and service skills: http://www.angelfire.com/pro/kairosfocus/resources/Cell_Manual.pdf 9, on basics of issues: http://www.angelfire.com/pro/kairosfocus/resources/AN_APOLOGETICS_PRIMER.pdf 10, on gospel-rooted biblical ethical theism: http://nicenesystheol.blogspot.com/2010/11/unit-2-gospel-on-mars-hill-foundations.html#u2minfact kairosfocus

PPS: Weaponising logic, worldviews analysis and discipling reformation leadership i/l/o the fullness theme, the 4-R's framework and the seven mountains of influence model: 1, on critical thinking 101 (a 15-minute primer): http://www.angelfire.com/pro/kairosfocus/resources/Straight_Thinking.pdf 2, on de-spinning news, views, education etc: http://www.angelfire.com/pro/kairosfocus/resources/straight_or_spin.htm 3, on the mars hill strategy: http://nicenesystheol.blogspot.com/2010/11/unit-2-gospel-on-mars-hill-foundations.html#u2mars_hill 4, on wider, deeper worldviews analysis (101 level): http://nicenesystheol.blogspot.com/2010/11/unit-2-gospel-on-mars-hill-foundations.html#u2_bld_wvu 5, on discipleship and reformation (and note the link to Francis Schaeffer's vid series): http://nicenesystheol.blogspot.com/2010/11/unit-2-gospel-on-mars-hill-foundations.html#u2xfrmn kairosfocus

Q, there was a "right" of the Roman soldiery [these would have likely been the auxiliaries, not the core Roman army, the legions] to compel passersby to carry their 50 - 60 lb packs on the march for a Roman mile [= 1000 paces]. Essentially, by right of conquest. In Palestine at the time, of course, the Romans had been present from the 60's BC because of power elites inviting them in due to a faction fight among the inheritors of the semi-free Hasmonean kingdom about 100 years after the wars of liberation from the Syrian Greek kingdom. So, we see no democratic citizen's contribution, just a dirty power game that brought in an oppressor over a subject people with no realistic hope of anything better . . . as was proved by the three failed Jewish revolts from AD 66 - 135. The carry the pack a mile rule was deeply resented. And, reading between the lines, many of the occupying soldiers seem to have enjoyed using it as a species of petty oppression. They were not viewed primarily as defending the community, but as occupying oppressors. Worse, it is likely that auxiliary soldiers in Palestine would have come from traditional enemies of Israel, with a long and bitter history. Jesus' counsel, in the face of an oppressive regime was, first deal with the inner, spiritual problem and carry the pack two miles (by implication, if you can). Likewise, when slapped, turn the other cheek. In short, do not be waspish. Such is still valid at some levels. Our circumstances may bring that to the fore, but the level of duty we primarily must face is, we are democratic citizens of a civilisation in which the governments and elites are accountable before we the people. We need to learn some civics (whether or not it is distasteful and boring, go the extra mile with that), we need to familiarise ourselves with a true and fair view of circumstances and trends, as well as the driving factors of security, safety and inclusive, self-sustaining growth and development, etc. Again, we should be going the extra mile with such. Then, we have a duty of accountability, holding those in significant office responsible for their dealings. Likewise, we have the duty to hold the media -- the means of general communication to the public in our time (with states where the scale is such that the dynamics of a small town or village are not going to allow us independent knowledge of people, issues, trends etc) -- to account for truth, fairness, and more. Above all, we should be going the second mile to promote justice, the due balance of rights, freedoms and responsibilities; including having a modicum of knowledge on relevant history and underlying issues as to how genuine rights are grounded. In short, we should be going the second mile on being sound, aware, upright citizens fit to be salt and light, and to be watchmen in the towers to blow the trumpet of warning when evil is coming and raising dust clouds. None of this is particularly entertaining or enjoyable, but it is a much easier duty than walking under a bullying occupying soldier's 50 - 60 lb pack for 1,000 paces. However -- in part due to manipulation of education and media for decades -- these duties seem to be doubly hard in our time. That is why I am pointing to the straight vs spin grid in the OP, and am suggesting, spread it as an infographic. I wish to suggest that I can find nowhere in scripture any indication that going the extra mile can be equated to enabling or passively going along with weaponised slander, blackmail and intimidation to push an agenda of evil. Instead, I find every encouragement to stand up with credible, prophetically insightful, reforming intellectual and cultural leadership that corrects the fallacies of evil and those of leading people astray from God and from sound community founded on him who is the truth and the right himself. For first instance, I see Paul's counsel (after he has argued that through the sound functioning of the church we are immunised to winds and waves of false doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming):

Eph 4:17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20 But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self,[f] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. 25 Therefore, having put away falsehood, let each one of you speak the truth with his neighbor, for we are members one of another. 26 Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and give no opportunity to the devil. 28 Let the thief no longer steal, but rather let him labor, doing honest work with his own hands, so that he may have something to share with anyone in need. 29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.

A tall order, and an order that points to an utterly different kind of citizenship than has been going on across our civilisation. (If you need balancing pieces on what is going on just now, with the press shark pack game, I suggest Cochran here. Similarly, on the wider issue of the invasion of cultural marxism and aAlinsky style agit prop, you may wish to look here at an archived wiki page [now supressed at Wiki of course] and here for a more focussed 101 level critique.) KF PS: One of the most challenging spiritual warfare texts is quite non-spooky when we look at it with fresh eyes:

2 Cor 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ . . .

Worldview warfare with weaponised logic and sound insights! kairosfocus

The conspiracy of some elitist, arrogant politicians, bureaucrats, and academics to create a "compliant citizenry" is especially rankling to those of us who cherish freedom. Nevertheless, consider this. Yeshua told his disciples to not only be compliant with the cruel and corrupt Roman empire, but to be proactively cooperative:

If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. - Jesus as quoted in Matthew 5:41

His disciples got the message.

if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. - 2 Peter 2:9

I'm determined to trust God in this promise and to be obedient to what he wants for my life. -Q Querius

It looks like that maybe I spoke too soon when @ 36 I wrote that neither CNBC or the NY Times would take any disciplinary action against a reporter who appeared to have violated long recognized standards of journalistic ethics. However now it’s being reported that one of the oldest members of the MSM, NBC News, is suspending one of its Today Show reporters, Billy Bush (who BTW is the cousin of George W Bush) for the interview he did with Donald Trump 11 years ago, when Bush worked as a “reporter” for the infotainment show Access Hollywood. (That’s not exactly an important MSM news outlet.) So what did Bush do wrong? I am not sure. Apparently neither are any professionals in the news business. For example, Jonah Goldberg of National Review writes:

What I find bizarre is that Bush has been suspended from his job at Today for . . . what? I don’t really know. Was he supposed to slap Trump? Rip off his mic and say, “How dare you, sir?” Report him to the police? Maybe he should have. I certainly would think better of Bush if he had. But I have to assume that when you’re in the business of sucking up to celebrities in a cutthroat competition for prized “gets,” one must listen to — and see — all manner of things that would offend decent, middle-class sensibilities.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441063/billy-bush-suspension-nbc-over-trump-lewd-remarks-nonsense But maybe the mainstream media is finally getting its act together-- well, maybe not. john_a_designer

Eugen, either we wake up now or we wake up with our backs broken at the foot of a cliff. Those, "lucky" enough to survive. KF kairosfocus

JAD, I recall how, when the Lewinsky scandal broke, an elderly black lady (an evangelist) was on one of those talking head shows. She said, if this intern had danced into the President's Office stark naked, he should have taken off his jacket and put it on her, then sent her home to mama; c/o the secret service, I imagine. Unfortunately, that did not happen, the Playboy mentality seemed to be too strong. Then, as now. But that old lady had a solid point about duty as husband and as high official. I have to give some credibility to the accounts of advance leaking of debate questions (esp. for no 1). That is sad, and sadly revealing. Likewise, the failure of media houses -- as the OP highlights too -- is just as sadly revealing. Our civilisation is on the crumbling edge of a precipice, and we need to wake up from our stupor of folly and turn back before the ground gives way underfoot. Or, at least, we are duty-bound to try. Do we really want to go through the sort of collapse that happened after 476? That, would be utterly foolish, but we must remember, that collapse was precipitated by a long train of folly, step by step until things collapsed. It took a thousand years to recover. This time, with nukes in play, it may be much worse. How foolish we have been! KF kairosfocus

What is absolutely appalling to me as a U.S. citizen is the corruption of our main stream media (or MSM). Several of the wiki leak emails reveal what a lot informed citizens already knew: the New York based MSM is biased politically towards the far left and is complicit in pushing a secular progressive agenda and propping up political candidates who share that agenda. According to Fox News:

The ongoing WikiLeaks dump of a top Hillary Clinton lieutenant’s emails is shining a light on the cozy and often improper relationship key members of the press had with the Democratic presidential nominee’s campaign. Advance notice of debate questions, the promise of positive coverage, and even editorial control over stories are among the eyebrow-raising revelations in emails to and from campaign chairman John Podesta.

(emphasis added) For example,

CNBC correspondent and New York Times contributor John Harwood, who served as a moderator in one of the Republican primary debates, emailed Podesta numerous times, on some occasions to request an interview and other times to offer advice.

(emphasis added) http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/12/bias-alert-wikileaks-exposes-medias-secret-support-clinton.html Note: “to offer advice.” In other words, Hardwood, while on the job, is moonlighting as an unpaid political consultant. Illegal? Maybe not. Unethical? Definitely. Will CNBC and the NY Times do anything about this? Probably not. If you are skeptical of Foxes coverage because of its alleged right-of-center bias take a look at this video from left leaning MSNBC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjhFRGDtlxA Sure, Scarborough’s reporting and commentary is to the right, but the revealing thing in the clip above is that his left wing colleagues agree with him. There is a liberal bias in the news reporting of the MSM. john_a_designer

Kairos Thanks for Ecclesiastes 7:6. So much wisdom in the Holy Book... Like you said there are some coordinated global trends and movements happening in the background all well synchronized with media, the propaganda machine. I think,too that quality independent sources of news on internet will break the monopoly of main stream media.This will hopefully reverse effects of decades of brainwashing. I always encourage friends and family to diversify their sources of information and to never trust main news networks. Unfortunately some people just don't want to wake up... Eugen

PS: Assessment, the USA is now deeply polarised and will be engulfed in internal divisions and wedge issues regardless of who is elected. This has been getting worse and worse since the hanging chads election of 2000. kairosfocus

F/N: Eugen, in 3 above, put his finger on a key point that bears emphasis, given current hot-button talking point games on ever so many issues:

Nations are divided over made up issues while serious damage is happening in the background. I cannot think of easy solution to this.

The hidden agenda cannot stand on its own, so it rides quietly on the back of what is trumpeted. Then, with message/ narrative/ spin dominance, the inconvenient facts, reasoning and concerns can be drowned out or twisted into a strawman caricature. A very good index of this is to follow up on the Wiki bios for key people involved with any movement the secularist elites do not like. If the bio is a hatchet job (as opposed to a true and fair view), then pay attention to what they have to say in their own words in whatever corner they can get a message out. For, that's the change, with Internet technologies the big boys cannot simply silence what they don't want us to hear anymore. So, they have to marginalise and discredit by any means fair or foul. And of course there are opinion cascades and there is a spiral of silencing, when domineering narratives reach a tipping point so that people simply parrot the seeming consensus, squelching doubts and qualms as they think they are isolated. Then anyone who does not get the message can be pounced on as a whacko. But then Paul was laughed out of court in Ac 17, quite literally. The laughter of a fool is as the crackling of thorns under a pot. The thorns are long gone as ashes when those who sit to supper are having their soup. Let that be a word of warning from Sophia to those who play the mocking dismissal trollish tactics game. (And if you think this is not serious, go read Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy in the post 476 world.) Of course ID is a classic in point as say contrasting the hatchet jobs at Wiki with the New World Encyclopedia article will at once reveal. But ID is not the actual pivot. I am convinced that the central evil of our time is mass abortion. A simple triangular growth model across 40 years since the '70's to the Guttmacher estimate of 50 million globally per year will come up with 800+ MILLION abortions. That amount of mass blood-guilt under false colour of law HAS to be severely warping and tainting how we think, present news and views and entertainment, argue public policy, address ethical matters, vote, make and enforce laws, carry out education and more. Which then readily explains other distortions, manipulations, strawman tactic distortions and much more. Starting with the utter warping of education. That's a full generation of the Plato's cave shadow show games. A civilisation carrying so much blood guilt is in tenuous contact with soundness and reality. That is almost bound to set the notorious horsemen of the apocalypse loose: conquest, war, famine and deadly disease. Hence, the significance of the Middle East as a pivot and Africa as a continent open for the raping. But of course, no that cannot be real, it is not being validated by the big voices in the major media. To get an idea, ponder how from 1904 Mackinder pointed to E Europe as a pivot area of conflict and to the mass of Siberia etc as a core resource space with rail and telecomms of the day enabling exploitation. Thus, shifting power-balance to continental powers, namely Germany and Russia. C20 history, at broad brush level then becomes: two German global power grabs and one Russian one. Pivoting on E Europe, the buffer zone between the two powers. (Current events in Europe echo this, and those in Syria bridge to the C21 issues.) Of course, the maritime powers and the key trade choke points also come into play, as Spykman emphasised. It is no surprise that ambitious and aggressive Islam-IST powers are moving along lines much as sketched. For just one instance there seem to be many dozens of thousands of Iran-backed rockets targetting Israel emplaced in Gaza and Lebanon under the nose of the UN. Where, Iran -- a chief sponsor of Islam-IST radicalism and terrorism for the past generation -- is clearly at or over nuke threshold. It is also plainly reconstituting the Persian Empire and is already on the E Med coast. Playing cultural marxist agit prop games to push the so called Arab spring only and predictably opened the way for a nightmarish Islam-IST winter. Which is of course presented in major media as though it comes from nowhere. Further East, China is flexing its muscles and of course has interests in Africa. We can go on and on, but that is enough outline. Ponder, then, how in so dangerous a geostrategic circumstance, the ongoing election campaign and media discussion in the US are so largely silent or superficial about such issues. And no, labelling such concerns "neo-con" does not make them go away. Nor does it change the strategic significance of the Nile Corridor (with the Sahara as an obstacle across northern Africa), Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Syria and Turkey. Nor, Iran and the buffer zone of Iraq. With the Sunni powers of the Arabian peninsula in the game too. Then, listen to the echos of "migrants" and "refugees" by the millions going up the invasion routes into Europe from the SE especially, where obviously many of these are Islam-ISTS. Compare the historical result of waves of Germanic tribes invading and immigrating into the Roman empire. Ask yourselves, why so little is said about the settlement Jihad/ Civilisational Jihad strategy and the intent of Islam-IST global subjugation across C21. Ask yourself why the RH woman key Aide of a major candidate to be US president was listed on the Editorial Board of a major journal promoting that strategy for a decade . . . a journal founded by her family. (I call that, on fair comment, agent of influence. Just as I am troubled by the closeness of another major political family to the elites of the Arabian peninsula. [Given the limits of 501c3, I think that is as far as I can go, other than to say this is my view in my own right, not endorsed by UD.]) Some very big sharks are swimming in these murky waters. KF kairosfocus

Folks, notice how the pivotal issue of long term educational dumbing down to soften up for media and opinion manipulation has been tip-toed around? Do you see the pivotal importance of getting awakened from a Plato's cave, shadow-show bewitched mentality of en-darkenment substituting for genuine enlightenment? [That's a key vid] See the dangers involved in being unaware and compliant with the dominant, domineering media narrative and spin games? Thus, the significance of the de-spinning framework I pointed out by way of an infographic in the OP? Notice, not one objector touching that framework? KF PS: Can I suggest, spreading that de-spinning framework far and wide, likewise the markup on our geostrategic peril as a civilisation? Same, on the infographic regarding unsustainable business as usual and building critical mass to switch to a sustainable alternative. kairosfocus

How is using a laptop having a discussion over the internet "hating the modern world"? (sigh) Another example of internet troll inanity, stupidity and irrationality. john_a_designer

Look at how fast the comments popped up! I know people, veterans all, that are not going to accept it if HilLiary gets elected. Take that however you want. Neither candidate is fit for the office, but Trump will appoint conservative judges to the SCOTUS and is anti TPP. He doesn't believe in an open border. I'm voting issues, not personalities. jimmontg

"My kingdom is not of this world, otherwise my servants would fight." -Yeshua Hamashiach My prayer has been that the evil plotting of these wicked, wicked liars be exposed without regard for their affiliation. I had no idea of the extent that my prayer and those of many other authentic Christians would be answered. I'm sure that more is yet to come! My faith and assurance gives me peace and fills me with relentless joy, regardless! And discovering the creativity of God is such a thrill! :-) -Q Querius

Pindi, notice how you have had nothing substantial to say regarding the sobering issue in the OP or further matters, only sneers and attempted put-downs, lastly thinking you can tell the truth or the right by the wrong instrument -- a clock or calendar? Please, think again. The myth of secularist, utopian progress has long since gone bust. KF kairosfocus

That’s so funny. You guys are the poor lost souls. Born in the wrong century. Unable to progress.

It seems you've not been keeping in touch with your evodoc.

I actually feel sorry for you It must be a terrible experience, hating the modern world.

A Darbot feeling sorry? With feelings? That'll be the day. Vy

TWSYF" "Keep coming, poor wretched creature" That's so funny. You guys are the poor lost souls. Born in the wrong century. Unable to progress. I actually feel sorry for you It must be a terrible experience, hating the modern world. Pindi

Eugen @ 22 Sophia has a word for that kind of laughter, too: http://biblehub.com/ecclesiastes/7-6.htm KF kairosfocus

Pindi is a lost soul, an utter fool being led by other fools. But the fact that he comes here regularly tells me that he is searching for truth, even if only subconsciously. Keep coming, poor wretched creature. Maybe Kairosfocus and bornagain77 will be able to reach you one day. john-a-designer @ 23: I share your frustration, but these people come here for reasons they don't even understand. They plan it for evil, but it only turns for the good. Even now, you and I are bonding more closely...thanks to a fool like Pindi. Eugen @ 22: Let him laugh. Fools have always laughed at and mocked the truth. Nothing new here. Truth Will Set You Free

Indeed, I don’t see the point of enabling trolls like Pindi. It seems to me he is here simply to make fun of his fellow primates. Couldn’t he have more fun visiting his local zoo and making fun of the monkeys? On second thought, he probably thinks that would be politically incorrect. My point is that trolls just want to drag people down to their level of irrationality. They have nothing else to offer. They do not care about engaging in honest dialogue or debate nor anything having anything to do with the truth. Trying to reason with them is going to get you nowhere. For them it’s just a fun little game. john_a_designer

Kairos @17 Pindi will just laugh and dismiss #17. Wisdom is not atheist's forte. Eugen

Kairosfocus (everywhere): Very impressive! Thank you. bornagain77 @ 20: Thank you as well. I needed that quote this morning. Reminds me of a well-known story about G.K. Chesterton. When a newspaper posed the question, ‘What’s Wrong with the World?’ G. K. Chesterton wrote a brief letter in response: Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton. Truth Will Set You Free

My Dear Wormwood, Be sure that the patient remains completely fixated on politics. Arguments, political gossip, and obsessing on the faults of people they have never met serves as an excellent distraction from advancing in personal virtue, character, and the things the patient can control. Make sure to keep the patient in a constant state of angst, frustration, and general disdain towards the rest of the human race in order to avoid any kind of charity or inner peace from further developing. Ensure that the patient continues to believe that the problem is "out there" in the "broken system" rather than recognizing there is a problem with himself. Keep up the good work, Uncle Screwtape. From "The Screwtape Letters" C.S. Lewis - 1942

bornagain77

JAD, yes, we have acted foolishly and are facing consequences. Please see how I just responded to Pindi, as an example of what I think we need to reflect on. KF kairosfocus

F/N: Some more from the horse's mouth, in the words of Richard Lewontin:

. . . to put a correct view of the universe into people's heads [==> as in, "we" have cornered the market on truth, warrant and knowledge] we must first get an incorrect view out [--> as in, if you disagree with "us" of the secularist elite you are wrong, irrational and so dangerous you must be stopped, even at the price of manipulative indoctrination of hoi polloi] . . . the problem is to get them [= hoi polloi] to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations,

[ --> as in, to think in terms of ethical theism is to be delusional, justifying "our" elitist and establishment-controlling interventions of power to "fix" the widespread mental disease]

and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth

[--> NB: this is a knowledge claim about knowledge and its possible sources, i.e. it is a claim in philosophy not science; it is thus self-refuting]

. . . . To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists [--> "we" are the dominant elites], it is self-evident

[--> actually, science and its knowledge claims are plainly not immediately and necessarily true on pain of absurdity, to one who understands them; this is another logical error, begging the question , confused for real self-evidence; whereby a claim shows itself not just true but true on pain of patent absurdity if one tries to deny it . . . and in fact it is evolutionary materialism that is readily shown to be self-refuting]

that the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality [--> = all of reality to the evolutionary materialist], and that, in contrast, the demon-haunted world rests on a set of beliefs and behaviors that fail every reasonable test [--> i.e. an assertion that tellingly reveals a hostile mindset, not a warranted claim] . . . . It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us [= the evo-mat establishment] to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [--> another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [--> i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door . . . [--> irreconcilable hostility to ethical theism, already caricatured as believing delusionally in imaginary demons]. [Lewontin, Billions and billions of Demons, NYRB Jan 1997,cf. here. And, if you imagine this is "quote-mined" I invite you to read the fuller annotated citation here.]

kairosfocus

Pindi, Over the course of many threads of discussion over the years, it has been obvious for a long time now, that a key front of operations regarding origins science as a key facet of how we understand ourselves in our world is not a simple matter of scientific issues. Instead, worldview level ideological commitments are key, and so matters of philosophy, issues, agendas, manipulation of institutions creating the fallacy of the closed and hostile mind are pivotal. Where, at the head of this thread, we have a telling current admission against interest, per Wikileaks. If you look above, you will see that it is you who traipsed in to sneer at a discussion of a smoking gun document that reveals the depth and degree to which the education system and the media have been corrupted by agendas over the past generation. Here, leading to a breakdown of governance. Perhaps you do not know much sound history, or geostrategic considerations. Perhaps, issues of philosophy and worldviews analysis do not seem relevant in an era robbed of such exposure in education. But, logic, ethics, epistemology, core nature of the world and its contents, etc are in fact key to all studies, including science and mathematics. If we go wrong here, we go dangerously wrong everywhere. We may not be interested in these things, but today, they are interested in us. In short, a march of ruinous folly on the scale of a civilisation is reaching the point where consequences are starting to happen, thick and fast. Now, in sneering at alleged apocalyptic fantasies, you revealed your attitude, in the face of evident facts. It was appropriate to cite a well known philosopher from 3,000 years ago, Solomon. He personified wisdom as Sophia (where at root philosophy is Philo + Sophia, the love of wisdom), and put her on the street corner, crying out to passersby who are stubbornly insistent on marches of folly:

Prov 1:20 Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice; 21 at the head of the noisy streets she cries out; at the entrance of the city gates she speaks: 22 “How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple? How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing and fools hate knowledge? 23 If you turn at my reproof,[a] behold, I will pour out my spirit to you; I will make my words known to you. 24 Because I have called and you refused to listen, have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded, 25 because you have ignored all my counsel and would have none of my reproof, 26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when terror strikes you, 27 when terror strikes you like a storm and your calamity comes like a whirlwind, when distress and anguish come upon you. 28 Then they will call upon me, but I will not answer; they will seek me diligently but will not find me.

In short, there is such a thing as a willfully stubborn, determined march of folly driven by lack of understanding and superficiality, which across time has terrible consequences. beyond a certain point, you go over the cliff, and it is then too late to cry out for wisdom, cf the chart of business as usual vs sustainable paths in the OP above. Notice, that yes, I cite Machiavelli at its foot (a man with a reputation worse than the actual Devil's reputation), a cite taught to me by my father who was a high state official at the time. One fighting a lonely and brave losing fight against a march of folly. That folly has cost my homeland a generation of development already, the first of the two my father predicted. To fall over the cliff and break a community's back is easy; what is then a long, hard struggle, is to recover. The same obtains for a civilisation. Rome ruined itself and fell; it took what, a thousand years for something worth having to claw its way up out of the ashes. Something, BTW, which was profoundly and in significant part shaped by the Christian faith you so viscerally despise. One of the legacies of that, was the lesson that print, widespread literacy, sound public opinion and more backed by a worldview that sustains a strong ethical system are key stabilisers to that attractive but dangerously unstable approach to governance, democracy. Hence BTW several remarks to that effect by US framers and founders. The USA is where the experiment first succeeded to unquestionable degree. No wonder, it was the main target of those who would undermine the heritage they despise. The cultured despisers of the scripturally based, Judaeo-Christian heritage have largely won in our time, and the fruit of their generations of work to subvert the American experiment are coming to ripeness. The horrible smell that pervades our civilisation is telling us that the fruit is bad, not good. (And BTW, when you twist the OT into a narrative of genocide and oppression, you are implicitly attacking Judaism and Jews, not just Christians . . . and this itself reveals that something is utterly wrong with the cultural marxism influenced, village atheist on steroids litany of sins of Christendom narrative . . . ) This was warned against, but was scoffed at, dismissed and marginalised. Well, mocked Sophia -- the echo of Boethius meeting his former mentor, Sophia in tattered clothing but in fine fettle as he awaited execution at the hands of unjust machinations in a barbarian court practically jumps out at us [read, The Consolation of Philospohy] -- now has something to say to our civilisation, from 3000 years ago. Our job in the meanwhile, is college of Adullam's cave, to stand together as the despised, deplored, denigrated, marginalised and dismissed and build a place of refuge and recovery. From which greatness can come forth as a David generation of leadership to the rescue of a civilisation gone horribly wrong at the hands of a Saul generation. And yes, I am citing the history of Israel from 3000 years ago as a key exemplar in our time. Solomon, in his Proverbs, drew up the lessons from that recovery and passed them on to all times, as a collection of gems of wisdom. Right in the middle of the scriptures that our oh so sophisticated atheistical elites would banish from education. But in fact, we know or should know that the third leg of the roots of our civilisation lie in the Judaeo-Christian heritage, not just that of Athens and Rome. The wisdom literature, FYI, is a corpus of pivotal philosophy with ethical insights, and it explicitly begins with worldview roots issues. A corpus, that we have arrogantly slandered and banned from our studies of philosophy, by and large, no prizes for guessing why. Oh, it's "religion" you sneer. No, it is ethical theism as a worldview, with a rich tradition deeply anchored to now largely forgotten cautionary history that we would do well to listen to. Let me cite Solomon again, here, from the opening words of the book of Proverbs:

Prov 1:1 The proverbs of Solomon, son of David, king of Israel: 2 To know wisdom and instruction, to understand words of insight, 3 to receive instruction in wise dealing, in righteousness, justice, and equity; 4 to give prudence to the simple, knowledge and discretion to the youth— 5 Let the wise hear and increase in learning, and the one who understands obtain guidance, 6 to understand a proverb and a saying, the words of the wise and their riddles. 7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

A thousand years later, a tent-making rabbi (the brightest student of Gamaliel) who came from the Jewish diaspora and had both Hebrew and Greek education with Roman citizenship, had become a Christian missionary to the nations . . . and a pivotal but today too often unacknowledged founder and framer of our civilisation . . . challenged the pagan philosophers in Athens, perhaps at Mars Hill, more likely in the neighbouring market place (the echo of Sophia is ever so clear):

Paul in Athens Ac 17:16 Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. 18 Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, “What does this babbler wish to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities”—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. 19 And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean.” 21 Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new. Paul Addresses the Areopagus 22 So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: “Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription: ‘To the unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man,[c] 25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. 26 And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, 28 for “‘In him we live and move and have our being’;[d] as even some of your own poets have said, “‘For we are indeed his offspring.’[e] 29 Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.” 32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, “We will hear you again about this.” 33 So Paul went out from their midst. 34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

(I have analysed this encounter here, and have then elaborated its import onward, leading up to the David generation challenge facing us in our time.) If we look at a map today, we will see the long term result in the facts on the ground. The street by Mars Hill is holy apostle street, and at tat point it becomes Dionysius the Areopagite street. In short, the bankrupt philosophers and politicians of c AD 50 did not carry the day, never mind their sneering. Their descendants have honoured the Areopagite who led the change in this way, and he is known today as the patron saint of Athens. A lesson for us in our time. Now, you make a great show of concern to discuss science. But in fact, over the years, we have found that consistently, we are not really dealing with science in discussion origins. Instead, we have found that we are dealing with an entrenched ideological elite, comitted to evolutionary materialistic scientism which is used to warp and redefine science as atheism in the lab coat. When inconvenient facts of science have spoken, those who have dared to speak such have been predictably ostracised. So, while we do in fact continue to address science and linked issues in mathematics etc (including right now the exchange on infinity as a claimed past that goes on in a parallel active thread . . . where you are conspicuously absent) we have found that we have to address as well the worldview and cultural agenda issues, or we will not deal with the range of material factors at work. It is not for nothing that the book of songs largely composed by Solomon's father, David -- who led the renewal of Israel 3000 years ago -- has as preface, a Psalm that reads as follows:

Psalm 1:1 Blessed is the man[a] who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; 2 but his delight is in the law[b] of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night. 3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water that yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither. In all that he does, he prospers. 4 The wicked are not so, but are like chaff that the wind drives away. 5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous; 6 for the Lord knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish.

We would do well to heed this counsel in our time. KF kairosfocus

Our culture here in the U.S. is in decline because there is a lack of leadership both on the political side and the spiritual/religious side. One of the things that depresses me the most is the flat footed, inept response from so-called Christian “leaders.” I am not alone. Back in 2015, for example, Fox News commentator Bill O' Reilly “expressed frustration over the lack of unified action among religious leaders to defend the tenets of the Christian faith, which have received strong blows amid growing support for same sex marriage and ongoing debates about the religious freedom restoration act.”

"It is very rare, [he said,] to see any high ranking Catholic cleric defending the faithful publicly. Protestants are a little bit better, but organised efforts to defend the Christian faith are rare. Therefore, the anti-religion people have a free fire zone to attack at will." He continued: "There isn't an organised attempt as there is in the gay lobby, abortion women's reproductive rights lobby. You don't have anything on the Christian side."

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/bill.oreilly.and.ann.coulter.call.out.christian.leaders.for.lack.of.action.against.attacks.on.christian.faith/51981.htm While there have been some modest gains on the pro-life side, those have been long time coming… It’s honestly too little, too late. I think challenges from SSM are much more serious. No Christian doctor that I know of in this country (the U.S.) has ever been forced against their will to perform an abortion. However, there have been several people who have been fined, fired and driven out of business because of their opposition to same sex marriage, even before the recent 2015 SCOTUS decision which “legalized” it. The other side is winning because Christians, and other supporters of traditional values, have been out organized, out spent, out maneuvered and out snookered. Pep talks and pious platitudes are not sufficient responses. We need bold and decisive action and that requires bold and decisive leadership. Who at present is providing that kind of leadership? Name me some names… a name. I can’t think of anyone-- at least any religious leader(s) with national prominence. And I am not talking about being well known. We have more than enough celebrities. I am talking about leaders who understand the challenges and have a plan of action to really do something. Christianity was founded as an activist religion. Read the Gospel of Matthew. What was the first the very thing that Jesus said to His disciples? What was the very last thing? Now read what he taught (trained) his disciples to do in between. Do you see the plan? Do you see the mission? Why aren’t Christians today seeing the mission? And don’t tell me that they are. If they were we would be the ones winning the so-called culture war. We’re not. That should be obvious. john_a_designer

Pindi @6: "It’s the apocalypse! " What did you mean by that? Dionisio

TWSYF - I very rarely read anything here any more because its all this type of content now. UD seems to have given up all pretence of being even vaguely scientific and has become a religious echo chamber from what I can see. Pindi

DfO, it amazes me that so many of the citizens of the leading power have little knowledge of or inclination to attend to geostrategic issues; surely, to be aware of potentially very serious consequences should be part of the voter's duty of becoming well informed. As to who are what, I suggest, UD is not a proper venue for specifics as you just said (per issues of 501c3, I gather). Further to such, I would suggest as a matter of general argument that such a strong assertion should only be given with at the least links to substantiating details, at the minimum an article of some substance in a reasonably credible source. Otherwise, it will seem to be angry shouting with no substance. KF kairosfocus

Kairosfocus @ 8: Agreed about the red rectangle and yellow triangle where world war is a mere tipping point from happening. The uninformed (and ill informed) masses have no will to stop what is coming. They have no sense of history and no desire to learn. Truth Will Set You Free

Pindi (et al) In case you think my marked up map is irrelevant, let me clip Gorby's warning as linked in the OP:

Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev warned on Monday that the world has reached a "dangerous point" as tensions between Russia and the United States spike over the Syria conflict. . . . . "I think the world has reached a dangerous point," Gorbachev, 85, told state news agency RIA Novosti. "I don't want to give any concrete prescriptions but I do want to say that this needs to stop. We need to renew dialogue. Stopping it was the biggest mistake." . . . . "It is necessary to return to the main priorities. These are nuclear disarmament, the fight against terrorism, the prevention of an environmental disaster," he said. "Compared to these challenges, all the rest slips into the background."

Scroll back up and ask yourself about what is up in that red rectangle and that yellow triangle. I hope you have enough awareness that you will have a nightmare about it tonight. Maybe, that will help wake you up. KF kairosfocus

I admire your attempts to reach the poor fool, Kairosfocus, but I think it is pearls before swine with that one. Truth Will Set You Free

Pindi, no it's the stubbornly complacent all too predictably walking off the cliff. In a context, where those who need it from the horse's mouth here have it in black and white. Just take time to actually read, decode from the usual turnabout projections, and reflect. On foolish complacency, here is Solomon's Sophia, wisdom personified:

Prov 1: " . . . 29 Because they hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the Lord, 30 would have none of my counsel and despised all my reproof, 31 therefore they shall eat the fruit of their way, and have their fill of their own devices. 32 For the simple are killed by their turning away, and the complacency of fools destroys them; 33 but whoever listens to me will dwell secure and will be at ease, without dread of disaster.”

As for repentance, glad you asked:

Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead. (With 500+ witnesses.)

Sophia has spoken. KF kairosfocus

Pindi @ 6: Not sure if it is the apocalypse, but it is definitely another atheistic march toward grand scale atrocity. Read the book Atrocities by Matthew White to learn more about your atheistic kind. Would be funny if you fools were not so dangerous. Keep visiting and reading our posts/comments by the way. Maybe someone like bornagain77 or Kairosfocus will reach you one day. I myself am not so optimistic (or gracious). I think you are hopelessly stupid. Truth Will Set You Free

It's the apocalypse! Repent! Pindi

TWSYF, I wish we realised that we are (again) playing with fire geostrategically, liable to be nuke fire too. For some of why, look at the red rectangle and the yellow triangle at the pivot area above. KF kairosfocus

Excellent post. We are living through several major events at the same time, including: 1. Technological revolution that is redefining humanity in ways never imagined. 2. Cultural collapse and implosion of western civilization. 3. Build-up toward world war that will dwarf all previous wars in number of deaths and individual atrocities. The first two are well-known. The third is relatively hidden from the masses. Truth Will Set You Free

Great article. There's so much mind control going on it's scary. Nations are divided over made up issues while serious damage is happening in the background. I cannot think of easy solution to this. Eugen

Folks, I am going to suggest: link, reblog, copy-paste and email, pass the link on, spread through social media. And more. This one is far too deadly serious to treat as ho hum. Yes, we need to have a very serious conversation here at UD too. KF PS: As one start point, I find that an astonishing number of people have been led to imagine Jesus of Nazareth is not credibly a figure of real C1 history (never mind that his dates are literally the pivot of our calendar) How could so many come to such a notion? (Cf. here: http://nicenesystheol.blogspot.com/2010/11/unit-1-biblical-foundations-of-and-core.html#u1_grnds ) kairosfocus

Folks, Smoking gun inadvertent confession. From the horse's mouth, we have been manipulated to make us "an unaware and compliant citizenry," starting with our education. And if you think that is just about civics, think again. With that sort of damaging admission on the table, this cannot be dismissed as tinfoil hat conspiracist paranoia anymore . . . the time for dismissive talking points is over. We now have to rethink from the roots -- origins of the world -- up. Including of course the ID controversy. KF kairosfocus