Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Once More from the Top on “Mechanism”

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We often get some variation of “Until ID proposes a ‘mechanism’ for how the design is accomplished, it cannot be taken seriously as an explanation for origins.”

Here is an example from frequent commenter Bob O’H (who, after years of participation on this site should know better):

If ID is correct, then the design has to have happened somehow, so a “how” theory has to exist.

OK, Bob, once more from the top:

Suppose someone printed your post on a piece of paper and handed it to an investigator.  We’ll call him Johnny.  The object of the investigation is to determine whether the text on the paper was produced by an intelligent agent or a random letter generator. 

Johnny, using standard design detection techniques, concludes that the text exhibits CSI at greater than 500 bits, and reaches the screamingly obvious conclusion that it was designed and not the product of a random letter generator.

“Ha!” the skeptic says.  “Johnny did not propose a mechanism by which someone designed the text.  Therefore his design inference is invalid.  If his design inference is correct, then the design has to have happened somehow, so a ‘how’ theory has to exist.”

Bob, is the objection to Johnny’s conclusion valid?

Comments
I believe the issue is not how was it designed, but how was it implemented: what went on the physical world as the design was brought into physical existence.hazel
September 1, 2019
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If something was designed then the HOW question is answered simply “designed” and the WHERE question is answered simply “in a mind”. How was the automobile engine designed? How was the computer designed? How was the cell phone designed? How was the airplane designed? Sometimes we could mention some auxiliary tools that were used used in the design, but the central design process takes place in conscious purposeful minds that are highly sensitive to meaning. However, as far as I understand it, the fact that those complex objects or systems were designed is independent of whether one knows how specifically such design processes happened. It’s my understanding that ID stops at inferring whether something is designed or not. That’s it. Trying to answer the “how” question in the case of designed objects would lead us to philosophical issues associated with immaterial conscious minds, far beyond the boundaries of natural sciences, where ID operates: Biology, Physics, Chemistry. It would be even beyond the domain of mathematics. I’m surprised that materialists -to whom the ultimate reality is based on matter and energy alone- insist so vehemently to move the discussions beyond the boundaries of natural science. Actually it seems inexplicable, at least to me.PeterA
September 1, 2019
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Lar:
Is evolution, in contemporary applications of the scientific concept, like a random letter generator producing sentences?
It depends on what brand of evolutionary theory you are talking about Larry. If you are talking about the Darwinian variety, of course it is random. Otherwise it would be directed toward an end, and the whole point of the theory is to explain why there is no need for direction toward an end. The other half of the Darwinian story is that mechanical necessity (natural selection) works on the randomness (mutations) to produce everything we see in the biosphere. It is a good explanation for small changes (changes in the size of finch beaks, etc.). But it takes a tremendous faith commitment (faith in metaphysical materialism) to swallow down the idea that it can explain how microbes became Mozart. As has been oft-noted, I would love to swim with the current and be a materialist. I just cannot handle faith commitments of that magnitude.Barry Arrington
September 1, 2019
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No, Larry. Even a random letter generator was intelligently designed. Your mechanism can't even do that- ie produce letters. If your side had something of note then we could discuss it. But it doesn't so you clowns have to attack ID with your ignorance.ET
September 1, 2019
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Is evolution, in contemporary applications of the scientific concept, like a random letter generator producing sentences?LarTanner
September 1, 2019
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The object of the investigation is to determine whether the text on the paper was produced by an intelligent agent or a random letter generator.
So the "mechanism" that the random letter generator used was "it just happened to happen"? Yeah, I see the scientific value in that. :roll: How pathetic are the anti-ID ilk?ET
September 1, 2019
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