Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

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“Creationist” Perspectives p37-45 selections from Science Evolution and Creationism NAP 2008 

“A creationist is someone who rejects natural scientific explanations of the known universe in favour of special creation by a supernatural entity. Many believers as well as many mainstream religious groups accept the findings of science, including evolution.

(Creationists) want to replace scientific explanations with their own religion’s supernatural accounts of physical phenomena.

Views of creationists typically have been promoted by small groups of politically active religious fundamentalists who believe that only a supernatural entity could account for the physical changes in the universe and for the biological diversity of life on Earth.

Old Earth creationists accept that the Earth may be very old but reject other scientific findings regarding the evolution of living things.

No scientific evidence supports these viewpoints.

The claim that the fossil record is “full of gaps” that undermine evolution is simply false.

The sequence of fossils across Earth’s sediments points unambiguously towards the occurrence of evolution.

Scientific conclusions are not limited to direct observation but often depend on inferences that are made by applying reason to observations.

The transitional forms that have been found in abundance since Darwin’s time reveal how species continually give rise to successor species that over time produce radically changed body forms and functions.

Science cannot test supernatural possibilities. To young earth creationists, no amount of empirical evidence that the Earth is billions of years old is likely to refute their claim that the world is actually young but that God simply made it appear to be old.

Intelligent design” creationism is not supported by scientific evidence. They argue that certain biological features are so complex that they could not have evolved through processes of undirected mutation and natural selection, a condition they call “irreducible complexity”, that the probability of all their components being produced and simultaneously available through random processes of mutation are infinitesimally small.

The claims of intelligent design creationists are disproven by the findings of modern biology. Biologists have examined each of the molecular systems claimed to be the products of design and have shown how they could have arisen through natural processes.

Even if their negative arguments against evolution were correct, that would not establish the creationists’ claims. There are many alternative explanations. Science requires testable evidence for a hypothesis, not just challenges against one’s opponents. Intelligent design is not a scientific concept because it cannot be empirically tested.

If there were serious problems in evolutionary science, many scientists would be eagre to win fame by being the first to provide a better testable alternative.

The arguments of creationists reverse the scientific process. They begin with an explanation that they are unwilling to alter – that supernatural forces have shaped biological or Earth systems – rejecting the basic requirements of science that hypotheses must be restricted to testable natural explanations.

If intelligent design creationism were to be discussed in public school, then Hindu, Islamic, Native American, and other non-Christian creationist views, as well as mainstream religious views that are compatible with science, also should be discussed.”

Comments
1-Can natural processes be responsible for the origin of nature seeing that natural processes only exist in nature? No. 2- Intelligent Design is NOT Creation. Anyone who conflates the two is as ignorant as a rock. 3- There isn't any scientific data which demonstrates that transformations required (if all living organisms owe their collective common ancestry to some unknown population(s) of single-celled organisms) are even possible. 4- Anti-IDists and anti-Creationists reverse the scientific process. They start with the premise there wasn't a designing agency. IOW thet=y start and finish with matter and energy is all there is and all that is required. 5- No IDist or Creationist argues that some biological features are so complex they could not have evolved through undirected processes. 6- The age of the Earth depends directly on HOW it was formed. 7- Bith IC and CSI are testable concepts. As a matter of fact several anti-IDists have claimed to not only have tested them but tested and refuted them. Go figure. 8- Of the 50,000+ transitional forms that should have been between land mammals and cetaceans we only have a few. 9- Marine inverts make up the bulk of the fossil record yet we do not see any evidence of universal common descent in that vast majority of fossils. The best anyone can muster is a barnicle "evolving" into a barnicle. 10- Intelligent Design does not have any religious affiliation. This is great- anothr book which demonstrates why ID needs to be taught in schools. However it is obvious why people will oppose that- because if ID is taught then the lies about ID will be exposed.Joseph
January 5, 2008
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Polls on Origin Theories reveal only 26% accept evolution through natural selection. 63% believe an intelligent being was involved in origins (21% via guided evolution, 42% via other origin.) Religion and Science: Pew Research Center Aug. 24, 2006 By contrast, in 1998, 7% NAS scientists believe in God while 72% disbelieve in God. 5.5% of NAS Biologists believe in God. National Academy of Science This 2008 NAS document clearly exhibits NAS biases of a priori excluding what they do not believe possible in their definition of a closed science. Now that the obviously minority report has been published, it is time to write the majority report. i.e., establish an "open science" that allows for intelligence rather than excluding it a priori.DLH
January 5, 2008
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Gerry, There aren't 50,000 fossils between hippos and whales, but there are 8 or 9 really telling ones between Indohyus and whales. Look it up. Hippos and whales are like humans and apes, evolved from similar, extinct species. Somehow... perhaps designed, perhaps not.Undesigned
January 5, 2008
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Bob, none of it is mine. It is all from the book cited.idnet.com.au
January 5, 2008
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H'mm: A few "proper[ly] peer review[ed]" -- and long since well known in fact -- "facts" . . .
The Cambrian explosion represents a remarkable jump in the specified complexity or "complex specified information" (CSI) of the biological world. For over three billions years, the biological realm included little more than bacteria and algae (Brocks et al. 1999). Then, beginning about 570-565 million years ago (mya), the first complex multicellular organisms appeared in the rock strata, including sponges, cnidarians, and the peculiar Ediacaran biota (Grotzinger et al. 1995). Forty million years later, the Cambrian explosion occurred (Bowring et al. 1993) . . . One way to estimate the amount of new CSI that appeared with the Cambrian animals is to count the number of new cell types that emerged with them (Valentine 1995:91-93) . . . the more complex animals that appeared in the Cambrian (e.g., arthropods) would have required fifty or more cell types . . . New cell types require many new and specialized proteins. New proteins, in turn, require new genetic information. Thus an increase in the number of cell types implies (at a minimum) a considerable increase in the amount of specified genetic information. Molecular biologists have recently estimated that a minimally complex single-celled organism would require between 318 and 562 kilobase pairs of DNA to produce the proteins necessary to maintain life (Koonin 2000). More complex single cells might require upward of a million base pairs. Yet to build the proteins necessary to sustain a complex arthropod such as a trilobite would require orders of magnitude more coding instructions. The genome size of a modern arthropod, the fruitfly Drosophila melanogaster, is approximately 180 million base pairs (Gerhart & Kirschner 1997:121, Adams et al. 2000). Transitions from a single cell to colonies of cells to complex animals represent significant (and, in principle, measurable) increases in CSI . . . . In order to explain the origin of the Cambrian animals, one must account not only for new proteins and cell types, but also for the origin of new body plans . . . Mutations in genes that are expressed late in the development of an organism will not affect the body plan. Mutations expressed early in development, however, could conceivably produce significant morphological change (Arthur 1997:21) . . . [but] processes of development are tightly integrated spatially and temporally such that changes early in development will require a host of other coordinated changes in separate but functionally interrelated developmental processes downstream. For this reason, mutations will be much more likely to be deadly if they disrupt a functionally deeply-embedded structure such as a spinal column than if they affect more isolated anatomical features such as fingers (Kauffman 1995:200) . . . McDonald notes that genes that are observed to vary within natural populations do not lead to major adaptive changes, while genes that could cause major changes--the very stuff of macroevolution--apparently do not vary. In other words, mutations of the kind that macroevolution doesn't need (namely, viable genetic mutations in DNA expressed late in development) do occur, but those that it does need (namely, beneficial body plan mutations expressed early in development) apparently don't occur.6
And, some more:
. . . we are literally surrounded by 'living fossils' in the present world of organisms when applying the term more inclusively as "an existing species whose similarity to ancient ancestral species indicates that very few morphological changes have occurred over a long period of geological time" [85] . . . . Now, since all these "old features", morphologically as well as molecularly, are still with us, the basic genetical questions should be addressed in the face of all the dynamic features of ever reshuffling and rearranging, shifting genomes, (a) why are these characters stable at all and (b) how is it possible to derive stable features from any given plant or animal species by mutations in their genomes? . . . . A first hint for answering the questions . . . is perhaps also provided by Charles Darwin himself when he suggested the following sufficiency test for his theory [16]: "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down." [NB: BTW, he here actually privileges his theory beyond reasonable empir5ical test if his words are taken at face value!] . . . Biochemist Michael J. Behe [5] has refined Darwin's statement by introducing and defining his concept of "irreducibly complex systems", specifying: "By irreducibly complex I mean a single system composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning" . . . [for example] (1) the cilium, (2) the bacterial flagellum with filament, hook and motor embedded in the membranes and cell wall and (3) the biochemistry of blood clotting in humans . . . . One point is clear: granted that there are indeed many systems and/or correlated subsystems in biology, which have to be classified as irreducibly complex and that such systems are essentially involved in the formation of morphological characters of organisms, this would explain both, the regular abrupt appearance of new forms in the fossil record as well as their constancy over enormous periods of time. For, if "several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function" are necessary for biochemical and/or anatomical systems to exist as functioning systems at all (because "the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning") such systems have to (1) originate in a non-gradual manner and (2) must remain constant as long as they are reproduced and exist. And this could mean no less than the enormous time periods mentioned for all the living fossils hinted at above. Moreover, an additional phenomenon would also be explained: (3) the equally abrupt disappearance of so many life forms in earth history . . . The reason why irreducibly complex systems would also behave in accord with point (3) is also nearly self-evident: if environmental conditions deteriorate so much for certain life forms (defined and specified by systems and/or subsystems of irreducible complexity), so that their very existence be in question, they could only adapt by integrating further correspondingly specified and useful parts into their overall organization, which prima facie could be an improbable process -- or perish . . . . According to Behe and several other authors [5-7, 21-23, 53-60, 68, 86] the only adequate hypothesis so far known for the origin of irreducibly complex systems is intelligent design (ID) . . . in connection with Dembski's criterion of specified complexity . . . . "For something to exhibit specified complexity therefore means that it matches a conditionally independent pattern (i.e., specification) of low specificational complexity, but where the event corresponding to that pattern has a probability less than the universal probability bound and therefore high probabilistic complexity" [23]. For instance, regarding the origin of the bacterial flagellum, Dembski calculated a probability of 10^-234[22].
Geoff, i don't think i t is just a question of merely being honestly ignorant. CD was hoping that the many transitional forms would show up as the state of he fossil record advanced. It is credible that with the many millions of fossils known and the hundreds of thousands of species so identified across all continents and a considerable cross-section of stratas, that we have a reasonably good cross and representative sample of the record. The net result is that there are probably fewer claimed transitinal forms today than there were in Darwin's day. [For instance, this was part of he motivating context for punctuated equilibria as a theory of evolution.] And, let us never forget: CD was not happy with the state of the fossil record in his day, giving a promissory note on it. Time to call in the loan! GEM of TKIkairosfocus
January 5, 2008
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idnet.com.au - any chance of you using blockquotes for this? It's less confusing to follow who wrote what - I was about to congratulate you on admitting "The claims of intelligent design creationists are disproven by the findings of modern biology"! BobBob O'H
January 4, 2008
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Sometimes the person you lie to is yourself. But you may do something to show you don't believe it deep down in your own heart. See an old blog entry of mine: http://geoffreyrobinson.blogspot.com/2007/04/do-darwinists-subconsciously-disbelieve.htmlgeoffrobinson
January 4, 2008
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"I wouldn’t say either side is lying. But someone is wrong." A lie is an intentional deception. Either we've got the 50,000 or so transitional fossils between a hippo and a whale, or we don't. Somebody needs to 'fess us.Gerry Rzeppa
January 4, 2008
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I wouldn't say either side is lying. But someone is wrong.geoffrobinson
January 4, 2008
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One side says, "The transitional forms that have been found in abundance since Darwin’s time reveal how species continually give rise to successor species that over time produce radically changed body forms and functions." - from quote above The other side says, "The fossil record doesn't support the Darwinian claim that the major taxonomic groups are connected to one another by biological descent. There is, for instance, no gradual series of fossils leading from fish to amphibians, or from reptiles to birds." - The Design of Life, page 64 Looks to me like someone is just plain lying.Gerry Rzeppa
January 4, 2008
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"The transitional forms that have been found in abundance since Darwin’s time reveal how species continually give rise to successor species that over time produce radically changed body forms and functions." Holy cr*p! What a load of propaganda. So is darwinisam "officially" a religion now? Sounds like they've just released the official creed of their church.shaner74
January 4, 2008
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geoffrobinson you are absolutely correect- that is the dirty little secret of DE- it is a religion.Frost122585
January 4, 2008
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"Science requires testable evidence for a hypothesis, not just challenges against one’s opponents." And how exactly could we test/falsify Random Mutation + Natural Selection as a mechanism? These statements say more about their philosophical beliefs than science per se.geoffrobinson
January 4, 2008
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"Scientific conclusions are not limited to direct observation but often depend on inferences that are made by applying reason to observations. However the basic requirements of science is that hypotheses must be restricted to testable natural explanations." Thus there may be intelligent design detectable in biological systems but it is excluded from science by definition. How convenient.idnet.com.au
January 4, 2008
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Wow! That sure puts those evil creationists in their place!Mats
January 4, 2008
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