Intelligent Design Mind

Mathematician Roger Penrose thinks soul may survive death

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From Sean Martin at Daily Express:

While scientists are still unsure about what exactly consciousness is, the University of Arizona’s Stuart Hameroff believes that it is merely information stored at a quantum level.

British physicist Sir Roger Penrose agrees and believes he and his team have found evidence that protein-based microtubules – a structural component of human cells – carry quantum information – information stored at a sub-atomic level. More.

Couple thoughts:

1. To say that there is no good or even reasonable theory of consciousness would be to shower the discipline with unearned praise. The ”perceptronium” thesis gives some sense of that, but there are other gems out there.

2. No one knows how to relate information to matter and energy. By the time people are reduced to claiming that information is a material substance, we should move that directory out of the Favorites list.

3. Just what the relationship is between conscienceless and the brain is unclear.

4. Even in animals, the relationship between intelligence and the brain is unclear.

A science basis for saying that consciousness ceases with death would, at present, be without basis.

See also: What great physicists have said about immateriality and consciousness

Neuroscience tried wholly embracing naturalism, but then the brain got away

Does intelligence depend on a specific type of brain?

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5 Replies to “Mathematician Roger Penrose thinks soul may survive death

  1. 1
    mike1962 says:

    Edit suggestion for the Daily Express:

    While scientists are still unsure about what exactly consciousness is

  2. 2
    bornagain77 says:

    as to this comment from the article:

    “Sir Roger states if a person temporarily dies, this quantum information is released from the microtubules and into the universe.
    However, if they are resuscitated the quantum information is channeled back into the microtubules and that is what sparks a near death experience.
    Sir Roger added: “If they’re not revived, and the patient dies, it’s possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body, perhaps indefinitely, as a soul.”

    That is very reminiscent of what Stuart Hameroff stated in this following video:

    “Let’s say the heart stops beating. The blood stops flowing. The microtubules lose their quantum state. But the quantum information, which is in the microtubules, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed. It just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large. If a patient is resuscitated, revived, this quantum information can go back into the microtubules and the patient says, “I had a near death experience. I saw a white light. I saw a tunnel. I saw my dead relatives.,,” Now if they’re not revived and the patient dies, then it’s possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”
    – Stuart Hameroff – Quantum Entangled Consciousness – Life After Death – video (5:00 minute mark)
    https://youtu.be/jjpEc98o_Oo?t=300

    What Penrose and Hameroff are referring to is the fact that in quantum mechanics it is quantum information that is primarily conserved, and not necessarily energy and matter that are primarily conserved, as energy and matter are primarily conserved in classical mechanics:

    Quantum no-hiding theorem experimentally confirmed for first time – 2011
    Excerpt: In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed. This concept stems from two fundamental theorems of quantum mechanics: the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem. A third and related theorem, called the no-hiding theorem, addresses information loss in the quantum world. According to the no-hiding theorem, if information is missing from one system (which may happen when the system interacts with the environment), then the information is simply residing somewhere else in the Universe; in other words, the missing information cannot be hidden in the correlations between a system and its environment.
    http://www.physorg.com/news/20.....tally.html

    Quantum no-deleting theorem
    Excerpt: A stronger version of the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem provide permanence to quantum information. To create a copy one must import the information from some part of the universe and to delete a state one needs to export it to another part of the universe where it will continue to exist.
    – per wikipedia

    Moreover, besides microtubules, quantum entanglement has now been found to be widespread throughout our bodies, in DNA and Protein molecules as well as in other molecules.

    “What happens is this classical information (of DNA) is embedded, sandwiched, into the quantum information (of DNA). And most likely this classical information is never accessed because it is inside all the quantum information. You can only access the quantum information or the electron clouds and the protons. So mathematically you can describe that as a quantum/classical state.”
    Elisabeth Rieper – Classical and Quantum Information in DNA – video (Longitudinal Quantum Information resides along the entire length of DNA discussed at the 19:30 minute mark; at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper remarks that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it)
    https://youtu.be/2nqHOnVTxJE?t=1176

    Physicists Discover Quantum Law of Protein Folding – February 22, 2011
    Quantum mechanics finally explains why protein folding depends on temperature in such a strange way.
    Excerpt: To put this in perspective, a relatively small protein of only 100 amino acids can take some 10^100 different configurations. If it tried these shapes at the rate of 100 billion a second, it would take longer than the age of the universe to find the correct one. Just how these molecules do the job in nanoseconds, nobody knows.,,,
    Today, Luo and Lo say these curves can be easily explained if the process of folding is a quantum affair. By conventional thinking, a chain of amino acids can only change from one shape to another by mechanically passing though various shapes in between.
    But Luo and Lo say that if this process were a quantum one, the shape could change by quantum transition, meaning that the protein could ‘jump’ from one shape to another without necessarily forming the shapes in between.,,,
    Their astonishing result is that this quantum transition model fits the folding curves of 15 different proteins and even explains the difference in folding and unfolding rates of the same proteins.
    That’s a significant breakthrough. Luo and Lo’s equations amount to the first universal laws of protein folding. That’s the equivalent in biology to something like the thermodynamic laws in physics.
    http://www.technologyreview.co.....f-protein/

    Quantum criticality in a wide range of important biomolecules
    Excerpt: “Most of the molecules taking part actively in biochemical processes are tuned exactly to the transition point and are critical conductors,” they say.
    That’s a discovery that is as important as it is unexpected. “These findings suggest an entirely new and universal mechanism of conductance in biology very different from the one used in electrical circuits.”
    The permutations of possible energy levels of biomolecules is huge so the possibility of finding even one that is in the quantum critical state by accident is mind-bogglingly small and, to all intents and purposes, impossible.,, of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,”,,,
    “what exactly is the advantage that criticality confers?”
    https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/the-origin-of-life-and-the-hidden-role-of-quantum-criticality-ca4707924552

    The reason why finding quantum entanglement to be widespread throughout the human body provides such strong evidence for a transcendent soul is that quantum entanglement is a ‘non-local’ effect that is not explainable by what is termed ‘hidden variables’. That is to say, in order to explain why quantum entanglement exists in our bodies, (or why it exists anywhere else), it is required for us to appeal to a ‘beyond space and time’ cause:

    Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory – 29 October 2012
    Excerpt: “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,”
    http://www.quantumlah.org/high.....uences.php

    Experimental test of nonlocal causality – August 10, 2016
    DISCUSSION
    Previous work on causal explanations beyond local hidden-variable models focused on testing Leggett’s crypto-nonlocality (7, 42, 43), a class of models with a very specific choice of hidden variable that is unrelated to Bell’s local causality (44). In contrast, we make no assumptions on the form of the hidden variable and test all models ,,,
    Our results demonstrate that a causal influence from one measurement outcome to the other, which may be subluminal, superluminal, or even instantaneous, cannot explain the observed correlations.,,,
    http://advances.sciencemag.org.....00162.full

    Moreover, the greater the number of particles in a quantum hypergraph state, (such as what we have in biology), then the more strongly it violates local realism, with the strength increasing exponentially with the number of particles.

    Physicists find extreme violation of local realism in quantum hypergraph states – Lisa Zyga – March 4, 2016
    Excerpt: Many quantum technologies rely on quantum states that violate local realism, which means that they either violate locality (such as when entangled particles influence each other from far away) or realism (the assumption that quantum states have well-defined properties, independent of measurement), or possibly both. Violation of local realism is one of the many counterintuitive, yet experimentally supported, characteristics of the quantum world.
    Determining whether or not multiparticle quantum states violate local realism can be challenging. Now in a new paper, physicists have shown that a large family of multiparticle quantum states called hypergraph states violates local realism in many ways. The results suggest that these states may serve as useful resources for quantum technologies, such as quantum computers and detecting gravitational waves.,,,
    The physicists also showed that the greater the number of particles in a quantum hypergraph state, the more strongly it violates local realism, with the strength increasing exponentially with the number of particles. In addition, even if a quantum hypergraph state loses one of its particles, it continues to violate local realism. This robustness to particle loss is in stark contrast to other types of quantum states, which no longer violate local realism if they lose a particle. This property is particularly appealing for applications, since it might allow for more noise in experiments.
    http://phys.org/news/2016-03-p.....alism.html

    Of important related note: Whereas Naturalists have no empirical evidence whatsoever that the epistemologically self defeating multiverse is real, Theists have very strong evidence for their belief in a higher heavenly dimension and in a hellish dimension. Moreover, this evidence comes from two of our strongest, most verified, theories in science. i.e. From Special and General Relativity respectively:

    Special and General Relativity compared to Heavenly and Hellish Near Death Experiences
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbKELVHcvSI&list=PLtAP1KN7ahia8hmDlCYEKifQ8n65oNpQ5

    Thus in conclusion, the findings of modern science, contrary to what Darwinian Atheists would have preferred to believe to be true, are very comforting to the Christian Theist’s foundational beliefs in an eternal soul that lives past the death of our material body.

    Verse:

    Mark 8:37
    “Is anything worth more than your soul?”

  3. 3
    wallstreeter43 says:

    This is a secular attempt to explain the soul and the afterlife. Hameroff and penrose know the strong evidence for survival of the soul from ndes and like the great atheist philosopher john beloff says that his fellow atheists should just concede the soul and afterlife and try to find a natural explanation for it . Hameroff and penrose are both attests that believe in the soul and afterlife .

    Here hameroff goes up against Lawrence Krauss and more then he’d his own .

    https://youtu.be/kmdJtSwH9O4

    Penrose and hameroff so theyr is called the Orch OR theory
    http://www.quantumconsciousnes.....-or-theory

    But nde researcher dr Jeffrey long has gone even further and says he has evidence from ndes of God himself

    http://skeptiko.com/jeffrey-lo.....ience-329/

  4. 4
    wallstreeter43 says:

    Born again and this is also what we saw in the largest peer reviewed nde study conducted by agnostic nde researcher dt Sam Parnias aware study

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/12/first-hint-of-life-after-death-in-biggest-ever-scientific-study/amp/?client=safari

    First hint of ‘life after death’ in biggest ever scientific study

    One man even recalled leaving his body entirely and watching his resuscitation from the corner of the room.

    Despite being unconscious and ‘dead’ for three minutes, the 57-year-old social worker from Southampton, recounted the actions of the nursing staff in detail and described the sound of the machines.

    “We know the brain can’t function when the heart has stopped beating,” said Dr Sam Parnia, a former research fellow at Southampton University, now at the State University of New York, who led the study.

    “But in this case, conscious awareness appears to have continued for up to three minutes into the period when the heart wasn’t beating, even though the brain typically shuts down within 20-30 seconds after the heart has stopped.

    “The man described everything that had happened in the room, but importantly, he heard two bleeps from a machine that makes a noise at three minute intervals. So we could time how long the experienced lasted for.

    “He seemed very credible and everything that he said had happened to him had actually happened.”

    Many people have assumed that these were hallucinations or illusions but they do seem to corresponded to actual events.

  5. 5
    wallstreeter43 says:

    Off topic kind of

    Professor James gates finds computer code in the equations for string theory to describe the fabric of reality and just floors Neil degrasdi Tyson . The same error correcting computer code found on web browsers

    https://youtu.be/oc4GOkHfxBY

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