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Update:  When I saw the quote originally posted here, I researched it and found an attribution to a source.  (The Birth Control Review of 1933-34).  It turns out that attribution was mistaken.  For posting an inaccurate quotation I apologize.  That said, the general views expressed in the quotation were in fact held by Margaret Sanger.  I replace the original post with this from Jonah Goldberg’s “Liberal Fascism”:

 

Margaret Sanger, whose American Birth Control League became Planned Parenthood, was the founding mother of the birth-control movement. She is today considered a liberal saint, a founder of modern feminism, and one of the leading lights of the Progressive pantheon. Gloria Feldt of Planned Parenthood proclaims, “I stand by Margaret Sanger’s side,” leading “the organization that carries on Sanger’s legacy.” Planned Parenthood’s first black president, Faye Wattleton — Ms. magazine’s “Woman of the Year” in 1989 — said that she was “proud” to be “walking in the footsteps of Margaret Sanger.” Planned Parenthood gives out annual Maggie Awards to individuals and organizations who advance Sanger’s cause. Recipients are a Who’s Who of liberal icons, from the novelist John Irving to the producers of NBC’s West Wing. What Sanger’s liberal admirers are eager to downplay is that she was a thoroughgoing racist who subscribed completely to the views of E. A. Ross and other “raceologists.” Indeed, she made many of them seem tame.

Sanger was born into a poor family of eleven children in Corning, New York, in 1879. In 1902 she received her degree as a registered nurse. In 1911 she moved to New York City, where she fell in with the transatlantic bohemian avant-garde of the burgeoning fascist moment. “Our living-room,” she wrote in her autobiography, “became a gathering place where liberals, anarchists, Socialists and I.W.W.’s could meet.” A member of the Women’s Committee of the New York Socialist Party, she participated in all the usual protests and demonstrations. In 1912 she started writing what amounted to a sex-advice column for the New York Call, dubbed “What Every Girl Should Know.” The overriding theme of her columns was the importance of contraception.

A disciple of the anarchist Emma Goldman — another eugenicist — Sanger became the nation’s first “birth control martyr” when she was arrested for handing out condoms in 1917. In order to escape a subsequent arrest for violating obscenity laws, she went to England, where she fell under the thrall of Havelock Ellis, a sex theorist and ardent advocate of forced sterilization. She also had an affair with H. G. Wells, the self-avowed champion of “liberal fascism.” Her marriage fell apart early, and one of her children — whom she admitted to neglecting — died of pneumonia at age four. Indeed, she always acknowledged that she wasn’t right for family life, admitting she was not a “fit person for love or home or children or anything which needs attention or consideration.”

Under the banner of “reproductive freedom,” Sanger subscribed to nearly all of the eugenic views discussed above. She sought to ban reproduction of the unfit and regulate reproduction for everybody else. She scoffed at the soft approach of the “positive” eugenicists, deriding it as mere “cradle competition” between the fit and the unfit. “More children from the fit, less from the unfit — that is the chief issue of birth control,” she frankly wrote in her 1922 book The Pivot of Civilization. (The book featured an introduction by Wells, in which he proclaimed, “We want fewer and better children…and we cannot make the social life and the world-peace we are determined to make, with the ill-bred, ill-trained swarms of inferior citizens that you inflict on us.” Two civilizations were at war: that of progress and that which sought a world “swamped by an indiscriminate torrent of progeny.”

A fair-minded person cannot read Sanger’s books, articles, and pamphlets today without finding similarities not only to Nazi eugenics but to the dark dystopias of the feminist imagination found in such allegories as Margaret Atwood’s Handmaid’s Tale. As editor of The Birth Control Review, Sanger regularly published the sort of hard racists we normally associate with Goebbels or Himmler. Indeed, after she resigned as editor, The Birth Control Review ran articles by people who worked for Goebbels and Himmler. For example, when the Nazi eugenics program was first getting wide attention, The Birth Control Review was quick to cast the Nazis in a positive light, giving over its pages for an article titled “Eugenic Sterilization: An Urgent Need,” by Ernst Rüdin, Hitler’s director of sterilization and a founder of the Nazi Society for Racial Hygiene. In 1926 Sanger proudly gave a speech to a KKK rally in Silver Lake, New Jersey.

One of Sanger’s closest friends and influential colleagues was the white supremacist Lothrop Stoddard, author of The Rising Tide of Color Against White World-Supremacy. In the book he offered his solution for the threat posed by the darker races: “Just as we isolate bacterial invasions, and starve out the bacteria, by limiting the area and amount of their food supply, so we can compel an inferior race to remain in its native habitat.” When the book came out, Sanger was sufficiently impressed to invite him to join the board of directors of the American Birth Control League.

Sanger’s genius was to advance Ross’s campaign for social control by hitching the racist-eugenic campaign to sexual pleasure and female liberation. In her “Code to Stop Overproduction of Children,” published in 1934, she decreed that “no woman shall have a legal right to bear a child without a permit…no permit shall be valid for more than one child.”47 But Sanger couched this fascistic agenda in the argument that “liberated” women wouldn’t mind such measures because they don’t really want large families in the first place. In a trope that would be echoed by later feminists such as Betty Friedan, she argued that motherhood itself was a socially imposed constraint on the liberty of women. It was a form of what Marxists called false consciousness to want a large family.

Sanger believed — prophetically enough — that if women conceived of sex as first and foremost a pleasurable experience rather than a procreative act, they would embrace birth control as a necessary tool for their own personal gratification. She brilliantly used the language of liberation to convince women they weren’t going along with a collectivist scheme but were in fact “speaking truth to power,” as it were. This was the identical trick the Nazis pulled off. They took a radical Nietzschean doctrine of individual will and made it into a trendy dogma of middle-class conformity. This trick remains the core of much faddish “individualism” among rebellious conformists on the American cultural left today. Nonetheless, Sanger’s analysis was surely correct, and led directly to the widespread feminist association of sex with political rebellion. Sanger in effect “bought off” women (and grateful men) by offering tolerance for promiscuity in return for compliance with her eugenic schemes.

In 1939 Sanger created the above-mentioned “Negro Project,” which aimed to get blacks to adopt birth control. Through the Birth Control Federation, she hired black ministers (including the Reverend Adam Clayton Powell Sr.), doctors, and other leaders to help pare down the supposedly surplus black population. The project’s racist intent is beyond doubt. “The mass of significant Negroes,” read the project’s report, “still breed carelessly and disastrously, with the result that the increase among Negroes…is [in] that portion of the population least intelligent and fit.” Sanger’s intent is shocking today, but she recognized its extreme radicalism even then. “We do not want word to go out,” she wrote to a colleague, “that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”

It is possible that Sanger didn’t really want to “exterminate” the Negro population so much as merely limit its growth. Still, many in the black community saw it that way and remained rightly suspicious of the Progressives’ motives. It wasn’t difficult to see that middle-class whites who consistently spoke of “race suicide” at the hands of dark, subhuman savages might not have the best interests of blacks in mind. This skepticism persisted within the black community for decades. Someone who saw the relationship between abortion and race from a less trusting perspective telegrammed Congress in 1977 to tell them that abortion amounted to “genocide against the black race.” And he added, in block letters, “AS A MATTER OF CONSCIENCE I MUST OPPOSE THE USE OF FEDERAL FUNDS FOR A POLICY OF KILLING INFANTS.” This was Jesse Jackson, who changed his position when he decided to seek the Democratic nomination.

Just a few years ago, the racial eugenic “bonus” of abortion rights was something one could only admit among those fully committed to the cause, and even then in politically correct whispers. No more. Increasingly, this argument is acceptable on the left, as are arguments in favor of eugenics generally.

In 2005 the acclaimed University of Chicago economist Steven Levitt broke the taboo with his critical and commercial hit Freakonomics (co-written with Stephen Dubner). The most sensational chapter in the book updated a paper Levitt had written in 1999 which argued that abortion cuts crime. “Legalized abortion led to less unwantedness; unwantedness leads to high crime; legalized abortion, therefore, led to less crime.” Freakonomics excised all references to race and never connected the facts that because the aborted fetuses were disproportionately black and blacks disproportionately contribute to the crime rate, reducing the size of the black population reduces crime. Yet the press coverage acknowledged this and didn’t seem to mind.

In 2005 William Bennett, a committed pro-lifer, invoked the Levitt argument in order to denounce eugenic thinking. “I do know that it’s true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could — if that were your sole purpose — you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down.” What seemed to offend liberals most was that Bennett had accidentally borrowed some conventional liberal logic to make a conservative point, and, as with the social Darwinists of yore, that makes liberals quite cross. According to the New York Times’s Bob Herbert, Bennett believed “exterminating blacks would be a most effective crime-fighting tool.” Various liberal spokesmen, including Terry McAuliffe, the former head of the Democratic National Committee, said Bennett wanted to exterminate “black babies.” Juan Williams proclaimed that Bennett’s remarks speak “to a deeply racist mindset.”

In one sense, this is a pretty amazing turnaround. After all, when liberals advocate them, we are usually told that abortions do not kill “babies.” Rather, they remove mere agglomerations of cells and tissue or “uterine contents.” If hypothetical abortions committed for allegedly conservative ends are infanticide, how can actual abortions performed for liberal ends not be?

Some liberals are honest about this. In 1992 Nicholas Von Hoffman argued in the Philadelphia Inquirer:

Free cheap abortion is a policy of social defense. To save ourselves from being murdered in our beds and raped on the streets, we should do everything possible to encourage pregnant women who don’t want the baby and will not take care of it to get rid of the thing before it turns into a monster… At their demonstration, the anti-abortionists parade around with pictures of dead and dismembered fetuses. The pro-abortionists should meet these displays with some of their own: pictures of the victims of the unaborted — murder victims, rape victims, mutilation victims — pictures to remind us that the fight for abortion is but part of the larger struggle for safe homes and safe streets.

Later that same year, the White House received a letter from the Roe v. Wade co-counsel Ron Weddington, urging the new president-elect to rush RU-486 — the morning-after pill — to the market as quickly as possible. Weddington’s argument was refreshingly honest:

[Y]ou can start immediately to eliminate the barely educated, unhealthy and poor segment of our country. No, I’m not advocating some sort of mass extinction of these unfortunate people. Crime, drugs and disease are already doing that. The problem is that their numbers are not only replaced but increased by the birth of millions of babies to people who can’t afford to have babies. There, I’ve said it. It’s what we all know is true, but we only whisper it, because as liberals who believe in individual rights, we view any program which might treat the disadvantaged as discriminatory, mean-spirited and… well… so Republican.

[G]overnment is also going to have to provide vasectomies, tubal ligations and abortions. . , . There have been about 30 million abortions in this country since Roe v. Wade. Think of all the poverty, crime and misery . . . and then add 30 million unwanted babies to the scenario. We lost a lot of ground during the Reagan-Bush religious orgy. We don’t have a lot of time left.

How, exactly, is this substantively different from Margaret Sanger’s self-described “religion of birth control,” which would, she wrote, “ease the financial load of caring for with public funds . . . children destined to become a burden to themselves, to their family, and ultimately to the nation”?

The issue here is not the explicit intent of liberals or the rationalizations they invoke to deceive themselves about the nature of abortion. Rather, it is to illustrate that even when motives and arguments change, the substance of the policy remains in its effects. After the Holocaust discredited eugenics per se, neither the eugenicists nor their ideas disappeared. Rather, they went to ground in fields like family planning and demography and in political movements such as feminism. Indeed, in a certain sense Planned Parenthood is today more eugenic than Sanger intended. Sanger, after all, despised abortion. She denounced it as “barbaric” and called abortionists “bloodsucking men with M.D. after their names.” Abortion resulted in “an outrageous slaughter” and “the killing of babies,” which even the degenerate offspring of the unfit did not deserve.

So forget about intent: Look at results. Abortion ends more black lives than heart disease, cancer, accidents, AIDS, and violent crime combined. African Americans constitute little more than 12 percent of the population but have more than a third (37 percent) of abortions. That rate has held relatively constant, though in some regions the numbers are much starker; in Mississippi, black women receive some 72 percent of all abortions, according to the Centers for Disease Control. Nationwide, 512 out of every 1,000 black pregnancies end in an abortion. Revealingly enough, roughly 80 percent of Planned Parenthood’s abortion centers are in or near minority communities. Liberalism today condemns a Bill Bennett who speculates about the effects of killing unborn black children; but it also celebrates the actual killing of unborn black children, and condemns him for opposing it.

Of course, orthodox eugenics also aimed at the “feebleminded” and “useless bread gobblers” — which included everyone from the mentally retarded to an uneducated and malnourished underclass to recidivist criminals. When it comes to today’s “feebleminded,” influential voices on the left now advocate the killing of “defectives” at the beginning of life and at the end of life. Chief among them is Peter Singer, widely hailed as the most important living philosopher and the world’s leading ethicist. Professor Singer, who teaches at Princeton, argues that unwanted or disabled babies should be killed in the name of “compassion.” He also argues that the elderly and other drags on society should be put down when their lives are no longer worth living.

Singer doesn’t hide behind code words and euphemisms in his belief that killing babies isn’t always wrong, as one can deduce from his essay titled “Killing Babies Isn’t Always Wrong” (nor is he a lone voice in the wilderness; his views are popular or respected in many academic circles). But that hasn’t caused the Left to ostracize him in the slightest (save in Germany, where people still have a visceral sense of where such logic takes you). Of course, not all or even most liberals agree with Singer’s prescriptions, but nor do they condemn him as they do, say, a William Bennett. Perhaps they recognize in him a kindred spirit.

 

 

Comments
A well-thought-out, well-researched, and well-written criticism of something Barry wrote counts as a "tither" -- at least, if it's written by a woman. (After all, men are never "all in a tither", are they?)Kantian Naturalist
April 16, 2013
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Perhaps Lizzie thinks that only she and her ilk can be mistaken, radically or not...Joe
April 16, 2013
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Nice job Barry- this post has Lizzie all in a tither...Joe
April 16, 2013
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You see Mr. Fox, as a Christian Theist, I know, where my moral precepts come from but you, as an atheist or even as an agnostic, have no moral basis in which to appeal to so as to declare that anything is right or wrong. This is all highly ironic that you would express moral outrage on abortion OP. You intuitively know that it is wrong to misrepresent somebody, you want with all you moral fiber to declare it wrong (albeit for morally questionable motives), but you do not have the moral resources within your worldview to tell anyone why it is wrong to do as such (such as you do not have the moral resources to declare why taking life or defending life may be right or wrong). For you see Mr. Fox, only Theism can provide a coherent basis for objective morality.,,,
Stephen Meyer - Morality Presupposes Theism (1 of 4) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSpdh1b0X_M
I think Peter Williams’ version of the moral argument is very impressive in the following video,,
Peter S. Williams vs Christopher Norris – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wWhkJZw4inY#t=398s The Knock-Down Argument Against Atheist Sam Harris' moral landscape argument – William Lane Craig – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL_vAH2NIPc Richard Dawkins and the Moral Argument for God by William Lane Craig - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f3I2QGpucs
Thus every time you express moral outrage Mr. Fox you are in fact offering evidence for the necessity of God. And if you were to be honest with yourself (which is a morally good thing to do) and you followed this line of logic out to its completion, you would see that all men have fallen short of the moral perfection of God (have sinned), and you would begin to understand why God's propitiation through Christ was necessary for our salvation.
Top Ten Reasons We Know the New Testament is True – Frank Turek – video – November 2011 (41:00 minute mark – Despite what is commonly believed, of someone being 'good enough' to go to heaven, in reality both Mother Teresa and Hitler fall short of the moral perfection required to meet the perfection of God’s objective moral code) http://saddleback.com/mc/m/5e22f/ G.O.S.P.E.L. – (the grace of propitiation) poetry slam – video https://vimeo.com/20960385
Supplemental note:
The Heretic -Who is Thomas Nagel and why are so many of his fellow academics condemning him? Andrew Ferguson – March 25, 2013 Excerpt: A materialist who lived his life according to his professed convictions—understanding himself to have no moral agency at all, seeing his friends and enemies and family as genetically determined robots—wouldn’t just be a materialist: He’d be a psychopath. http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/heretic_707692.html?page=3
Music and verse:
Third Day - Trust In Jesus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BtaCeJYqZA 2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
bornagain77
April 16, 2013
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Is it false, Alan? Good luck proving that. How about these:
"The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it." Margaret Sanger, Women and the New Race (Eugenics Publ. Co., 1920, 1923) and
On blacks, immigrants and indigents: "...human weeds,' 'reckless breeders,' 'spawning... human beings who never should have been born." Margaret Sanger, Pivot of Civilization, referring to immigrants and poor people
Joe
April 16, 2013
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Oops excuse typo Does Joe Gallien want to express any opinion over the false attribution?Alan Fox
April 16, 2013
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Does Joe Gallien want to express ay opinion over the false attribution?Alan Fox
April 16, 2013
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I'm afraid you're missing the point, Alan. Because we don't believe in God, we're not permitted to complain about the lack of integrity when people who do believe in God say things that are false. Only people who believe in God have any Objective Moral Compass to begin with, so they're the only ones who are permitted to call Barry out on his unintentional mendacity. (I say unintentional because I'm willing to give Barry this much credit: I believe that when he saw the quote, because it aligned with his beliefs about eugenics and Planned Parenthood, it didn't occur to him that the quote could be a fabrication. I don't believe Barry would have posted a quote that he himself knew to be false.) Nor are we permitted to complain when Kairosfocus 'doubles down' on the mendacity, by saying that even if the quote is false, she would have agreed with it. In order to complain about Kairosfocus' response, we'd have to have some Objective Moral Compass, and since we don't believe in God, we don't have one -- not really. I trust I've made everything perfectly clear.Kantian Naturalist
April 16, 2013
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Alan Fox:
Do you people have no integrity whatsoever?
Said the person who doesn't have any integrity whatsoever...Joe
April 16, 2013
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The quote in the OP is still false.
Mr. Fox what agnostic moral precept was broken to invoke such moral outrage from you?
I'm unaware of any invented agnostic morality. I am happy to live in a society that grants equal rights to all its citizens and where freedom of expression is safeguarded. Rights entail responsibility in not infringing the rights of others. In this case in not infringing the right of Margaret Sanger not to have words falsely attributed to her. You (or any other ID friendly commenter) have yet to express any disquiet over the false quote.Alan Fox
April 16, 2013
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Hmm an agnostic that defends Darwinian materialism tooth and nail??? Strange sort that is.,,, Okie Dokie Mr. Fox what agnostic moral precept was broken to invoke such moral outrage from you?bornagain77
April 16, 2013
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I'm agnostic, Phil. And the quote is still false. Have you a comment on the fact that the quote in the OP is false?Alan Fox
April 16, 2013
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Alan Fox,
What makes you think I’m an atheist?
Every post I've ever read of your on UD. If you are not a Darwinian materialist, and state so right now, I will gladly retract my statement. But as of now my question still stands, exactly what atheistic moral precept was broken to invoke such moral outrage from you? Ibornagain77
April 16, 2013
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Pray tell Mr. Fox, exactly what atheistic moral precept was broken to invoke such moral outrage from you?
What makes you think I'm an atheist? Creationists certainly can't claim any moral superiority when it comes to facts and honesty in presenting them. The quote is false. You can confirm this for yourself. If you are content with this sort of misrepresentation as demonstrated in the OP, you are hardly likely to grasp why I should be so disappointed.Alan Fox
April 16, 2013
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I agree with Alan Fox. If the quote is falsely attributed to Margeret Sanger a rectification is necessary.Box
April 16, 2013
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You are indulging the same poisonous broadbrush stereotyping game that
... The irony is breathtaking. I hope Barry has the decency to admit his error and apologise appropriately. Let's see whathappens.Alan Fox
April 16, 2013
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Alan Fox,
That is despicable. Have you no sense of shame at all?
Pray tell Mr. Fox, exactly what atheistic moral precept was broken to invoke such moral outrage from you?bornagain77
April 16, 2013
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The underlying issues and concerns on eugenics, racism and worse, much worse, still apply.
The quote is false. I see you are now trying to smear Sanger by suggesting she might have agreed with the false quote. That is despicable. Have you no sense of shame at all?Alan Fox
April 16, 2013
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Mr Fox,,
Do you people have no integrity whatsoever?
Do you know how many times I've asked myself that question about Darwinists as I was discovering, piece by piece, that the whole theory is built on deception?bornagain77
April 16, 2013
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AF: You are indulging the same poisonous broadbrush stereotyping game that I just corrected. There may indeed be a problem with the particular cite, which may well have been used in innocence, to be corrected on showing that to be so. (Currently being checked out, status as of now: likely incorrect as a specific cite, but unfortunately too close to home as a summary of general sentiments promoted at the time by Sanger and many others of her ilk influenced by Darwinism, social darwinism [with Darwin the first social darwinist per chs 5 - 7 of his Descent of Man . . . ], eugenics as applied science that allegedly was the self direction of human evolution that harmonised many scientific fields and more.) The underlying issues and concerns on eugenics, racism and worse, much worse, still apply. THAT is what we need to primarily deal with, and face squarely and soberly. The time for gotcha rhetoric games is long past. KFkairosfocus
April 16, 2013
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PS: Bryan on The Menace of Darwinism, courtesy Web Archive. And BTW, I think in today's terms he -- the stereotypical "Fundamentalist" -- would probably best be classified as some sort of Old Earth Creationist, maybe even a theistic evolutionist who believed in God's intervention to create the distinctive Imago Dei in man.kairosfocus
April 16, 2013
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On evidence currently in hand, the specific words above may indeed be incorrectly attributed to Ms Sanger. That is an error if that is borne out. That said, it is plain that Sanger and her Birth Control League, along with a great many others, were caught up in the Eugenics scheme of thought, which had swept the elite culture by riding on a tide of Darwinist thought and wearing the lab coat of science. There is no doubt whatsoever as to the meaning and implications of the logo of the Eugenics congress, as linked already. History, grim history, answers to that.
Is this one of these "fake but accurate" situations? "That is an error if that is borne out." Does this mean "Upps"?DiEb
April 16, 2013
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Do you people have no integrity whatsoever? The quote in the OP is false!Alan Fox
April 16, 2013
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WD400: I think -- as fair comment -- that you have painted with a broad, tainted brush and have indulged in poisonous and ill founded stereotyping along the lines of Dawkins' "ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked." On evidence currently in hand, the specific words above may indeed be incorrectly attributed to Ms Sanger. That is an error if that is borne out. That said, it is plain that Sanger and her Birth Control League, along with a great many others, were caught up in the Eugenics scheme of thought, which had swept the elite culture by riding on a tide of Darwinist thought and wearing the lab coat of science. There is no doubt whatsoever as to the meaning and implications of the logo of the Eugenics congress, as linked already. History, grim history, answers to that. Eugenics as a project has been indelibly stained with undermining the moral dignity of human life, thus it undermines rights and justice, starting with the first right, life. It is equally stained with racism, and there is no doubt -- just consult the underlying rationale of Eugenics laws, immigration restrictions, institutional practices and the like -- that all but upper class nordics and the close like were deemed increasingly unworthy. A classic, horrific statement comes from Justice Holmes in a 1927 decision (tellingly, just one year after Scopes, and in the same decade in which Bryan had tried to take up the thankless task of trying to warn about the menace of Darwinism -- with particular reference to social, moral and international concerns -- as the title of one of his books put it). Let me cite Holmes, giving a yardstick on the temper of the times and the colouring that should guide our understanding of what influential people of that era and surrounding decades meant when they spoke or wrote on eugenics-tinged topics:
WE HAVE seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, in order to prevent our being swamped with uncompetence. It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes Three generations of imbeciles are enough . . .
I have no doubt that many direct statements of Sanger, her associates, the publications of institutions she set up her books and the like take on much the same colour as the above. So, per fair comment: the time for strawman tactics, broadbrush scapegoating and cynically snide dismissive rhetoric is over. That is, on the wider subject you would sweep away with a rhetorical flourish, kindly show us, where functionally specific complex organisation and/or associated information have routinely -- or even just plausibly per clear observation -- been shown to come about by blind chance and mechanical necessity. I think on further fair comment, neither you nor your ilk can do so, whilst, there is abundant, easily observable evidence that shows that such is routinely produced by design. So, on well recognised inductive principles, we are well within our epistemic rights to hold that such FSCO/I is an empirically reliable sign of design. Never mind how such discomforts a priori materialists and fellow travellers. If you wish to challenge this in the context of the world of cell based life, the 6,000 word Darwinism essay challenge stands open, and all you need to do is to address how blind chance and necessity per empirically warranted discussion, accounts for origin of life in Darwin's warm pond or the like, and for subsequent origin of body plans. Just give the survey, and you can link sources in substantiation, but you need to actually make a good summing up. Let's say that the fact that in a little over a week the challenge will stand unanswered for seven months, is itself -- real or perceived problems with the cite you used as a hook to hang your rhetoric from notwithstanding -- a demonstration of the irresponsibility of your broad brush dismissal above. So, let's get back on track. There may indeed be a problem with the above cite and its attribution. If so, it is a lesson to us all to be careful on documentation. But that in no wise clears the abortion movement of its patent bloodguilt [bloodguilt can be forgiven, but must be repented of], nor does it sweep away the taint of eugenics or the history of darwinism and its links to eugenics and things worse than that. we need to get off rhetorical high horses, drop the talking point games, learn some sober lessons and seek to heal and reform our civilisation before it is too late. KFkairosfocus
April 16, 2013
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wd400 comments:
I see UD approach to scholarship extends beyond science.
And exactly why, since you portray yourself to be knowledgeable about 'science', is Darwinism to be considered science? Macroevolution, microevolution and chemistry: the devil is in the details – Dr. V. J. Torley – February 27, 2013 Excerpt: After all, mathematics, scientific laws and observed processes are supposed to form the basis of all scientific explanation. If none of these provides support for Darwinian macroevolution, then why on earth should we accept it? Indeed, why does macroevolution belong in the province of science at all, if its scientific basis cannot be demonstrated? https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/macroevolution-microevolution-and-chemistry-the-devil-is-in-the-details/ “nobody to date has yet found a demarcation criterion according to which Darwin can be described as scientific” – Imre Lakatos (November 9, 1922 – February 2, 1974) a philosopher of mathematics and science, quote as stated in 1973 LSE Scientific Method Lecture “On the other hand, I disagree that Darwin’s theory is as `solid as any explanation in science.; Disagree? I regard the claim as preposterous. Quantum electrodynamics is accurate to thirteen or so decimal places; so, too, general relativity. A leaf trembling in the wrong way would suffice to shatter either theory. What can Darwinian theory offer in comparison?” (Berlinski, D., “A Scientific Scandal?: David Berlinski & Critics,” Commentary, July 8, 2003) “In discussions with biologists I met large difficulties when they apply the concept of ‘natural selection’ in a rather wide field, without being able to estimate the probability of the occurrence in a empirically given time of just those events, which have been important for the biological evolution. Treating the empirical time scale of the evolution theoretically as infinity they have then an easy game, apparently to avoid the concept of purposesiveness. While they pretend to stay in this way completely ‘scientific’ and ‘rational,’ they become actually very irrational, particularly because they use the word ‘chance’, not any longer combined with estimations of a mathematically defined probability, in its application to very rare single events more or less synonymous with the old word ‘miracle.’” Wolfgang Pauli (pp. 27-28) –bornagain77
April 16, 2013
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Barry
KN, I would have bet a $1,000 that you would defend Planned Parenthood. Is there a single instance where you do not toe the line in the faculty lounge? Does it not bother you to be so utterly conventional? Do you even realize that you are utterly conventional?
KN
That’s pretty good, considering that you have no idea who I am, what degrees I do or don’t have, my actual rank or position, what school I teach at, what professors here believe, or, really, much of anything about the US academia in 2013 — all I’ve seen here is just the usual, stereotypical far-right culture-war fantasies that you use to invent what you don’t know. If I’m “utterly conventional”, well, I’m surely not the only one here — tu quoque, Mr. Arrington, tu quoque.
I would have made the same bet as Barry, but after reading KN's answer, I will now give ten to one odds.StephenB
April 16, 2013
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So do you believe other murderers should not have to face trial for murder if they are ignorant about what they are doing and emotionally compromised?
By definition, murder is the willful taking of another life. If someone who takes another person's life doesn't know that he/she is taking a life, then that would not seem to constitute a willful act of murder. By contrast, anyone who knows that he/she is taking a life by procuring an abortion is, indeed, committing murder and should be punished for it, even if that person is emotionally compromised, but perhaps not as severely as the cold-blooded doctor who does it for money and is not emotionally compromised.
I always understood that ignorance of the law was no excuse.
That is still true if it is a law that someone could reasonably be expected to know. Alas, there is no law against killing babies, so there is no law to be ignorant about. If, indeed, the state did recognize the act of abortion as murder, as it should, then even young skulls full of mush would get the message and come to recognize that babies are real humans that deserve to live.StephenB
April 16, 2013
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Stephen @19, that comment's a hard act to follow. Well said. ;)Chance Ratcliff
April 15, 2013
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As quotes @11 and 12 indicate, there is more than a little doubt that Margaret Sanger ever said anything of the sort. Does Barry Arrington have a verifiable source for the quote he posted? Did he check before posting? If not, and the quote is a fake, then perhaps an apology to Ms Sanger's memory might be in order.timothya
April 15, 2013
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KN, I would have bet a $1,000 that you would defend Planned Parenthood. Is there a single instance where you do not toe the line in the faculty lounge? Does it not bother you to be so utterly conventional? Do you even realize that you are utterly conventional?
That's pretty good, considering that you have no idea who I am, what degrees I do or don't have, my actual rank or position, what school I teach at, what professors here believe, or, really, much of anything about the US academia in 2013 -- all I've seen here is just the usual, stereotypical far-right culture-war fantasies that you use to invent what you don't know. If I'm "utterly conventional", well, I'm surely not the only one here -- tu quoque, Mr. Arrington, tu quoque.Kantian Naturalist
April 15, 2013
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