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Progressives, Fascism, and the Will to Power

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So-called progressives are feeling pretty cocky nowadays, which is not surprising after they achieved a decisive victory on one of their key policy goals when the United States Supreme Court mandated that every state must adjust its laws to pretend that people of the same sex can marry one another.  Of course, it is the case and will always be the case that a man cannot marry another man any more than he can marry his left shoe.  Marriage is not an infinitely malleable concept; it has an irreducible essence, and that essence is defined by the mutually complementary design of male and female bodies.  Now the Supreme Court tells us we must, insofar as our civil laws are concerned, pretend that relationships that do not partake of that essence in fact do.  Far from tainting the victory, however, the in-the-teeth-of-objective-reality quality of it all serves to emphasize the vast scope of the progressives’ triumph.  They have forced every state in the union to pretend to deny reality itself.  That is an impressive political victory.

Understandably, many progressives must feel their power is ascendant and will remain so, and some are succumbing to the temptation of ascendancy – the temptation to speak and act as if one’s political opponents are powerless and their concerns are therefore irrelevant and need not be acknowledged, far less taken seriously.  Progressives are beginning to drop all pretense that to them the ideals of Enlightenment liberalism such as the right to free speech and freedom of conscious were ever anything but useful tools for accomplishing their goals when classical liberals (who, ironically, are called “conservatives” in the United States) were ascendant.  They have played according to the formula Frank Herbert described in Children of Dune:

When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.

The progressive call for “tolerance” for the “other” we heard for so many years was their way of asking for freedom according to the principles of classical liberals.  But now that progressives are politically ascendant, they are no longer calling for tolerance for the other.  Instead they are determined to quash all dissent and destroy those who refuse to conform, because progressives are fascists at bottom, and arraying the coercive force of government against their political opponents to enforce conformity is according to their fascist principles.  When they were weak, “tolerance and diversity!”  Now that they are strong, “Conform or be crushed under the heel of government.”  See here, here and here as merely the latest examples.

What does this have to do with origins?  Everything of course.  Classical liberalism was based on the premises and conclusions of natural law philosophy, as perhaps most famously articulated in the United States’ Declaration of Independence:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.  We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

It should be obvious that the superstructure of natural law rested on a theistic, specifically a Christian, foundation.  [Yes, a handful of the founders were Deists; the overwhelming majority of them were orthodox Christians.]  Classical liberals believed in God; they believed in a transcendent morality instituted by God; they believed that rights are not given by men to other men, but each man, as an image bearer of God, is endowed with inalienable rights by God.

These ideas have logical consequences.  Among these consequences are the belief that every human being has inherent dignity as an image bearer of God; that all persons have equal moral standing and thus a right to the twin freedoms of expression and conscience.  On the other side of the ledger, classical liberals had a keen sense of the doctrine of original sin, the fallenness of man, and his propensity for error, all of which led them to tolerate divergent political views and place their trust in the marketplace of ideas instead of a perpetual official political orthodoxy.

Progressives, on the other hand, are overwhelmingly secular and materialist in their outlook.  These ideas also have consequences, including (1) God does not exist; (2) good and evil do not exist as objective transcendent ontological categories; (3) God, who does not exist, cannot endow men with inalienable rights; and (4) men are not image bearers of a non-existent God; they are jumped up hairless apes with delusions of superiority over other animals.

If there is no good and evil and no God-endowed rights, by what standard does the progressive define the eponymous “progress” they claim to want to achieve?  Certainly there is no transcendent standard.  “We have to give up on the idea that there are unconditional, transcultural moral obligations, obligations rooted in an unchanging, ahistorical human nature,” says progressive hero Richard Rorty.

What then?  The answer is that progressives want what that want.  Theirs is a political philosophy bound by nothing and defined by their unbounded will to power.  Of course, none of this is new.  In Book X of The Laws Plato describes them:

In the first place, my dear friend, these people would say that the Gods exist not by nature, but by art, and by the laws of states, which are different in different places, according to the agreement of those who make them; and that the honourable is one thing by nature and another thing by law, and that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might, and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions, these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is, to live in real dominion over others, and not in legal subjection to them.

Might makes right.  Progressives want what they want, and they will crush those who oppose their will to power.  And it is not enough to achieve their policy objectives.  Dissent is not allowed.  Progressive Tanya Cohen writes:

it’s just common sense that freedom of speech doesn’t give anyone the right to offend, insult, humiliate, intimidate, vilify, incite hatred or violence, be impolite or uncivil, disrespect, oppose human rights, spread lies or misinformation, argue against the common good, or promote ideas which have no place in society.

And who decides what is the “common good” and “ideas that have no place in society”?  Why Tanya Cohen and her friends of course.

Countless times on these pages Progressives have argued that good and evil do not exist as objective categories.  Instead, they insist that good is defined by the consensus of a society.  Yet even this limit is a dodge.  Every time the people have voted on the “right” to same-sex marriage they have rejected it by fairly wide margins.  It is not the law because there is a societal consensus that it is right.  It is the law because five members of a nine-member committee of lawyers decided they have the power to impose it on the rest of us and by God they are going to use that power.  This is about as anti-democratic as it is possible to be.  Yet progressives celebrate the decision.  Why?  Not because the outcome is “legitimate” even by their own standards of legitimacy (i.e., societal consensus), but because that is what they want, and they don’t care how they get what they want so long as they get it.

What is to be done?  I am not sure.  It seems to me that the clash of worldviews has reached a point where further attempts to reason with one another may be useless.  The two camps no longer speak or even understand the other camp’s moral language.  How can I reason with someone who thinks it is morally acceptable violently to dismember a baby and sell her body parts to the highest bidder?  If that is not self-evidently monstrous and evil, what can I say that would make its monstrousness and evilness apparent?  I have no idea.

When Justice Kennedy says that the conception of marriage that was accepted by everyone everywhere in the history of the world until ten minutes ago is based on nothing but bigotry and prejudice, what can be said to dissuade him from such an absurd idea?  Again, I have no idea.

I do have an idea, however, that perhaps it is time to read more deeply into the Declaration:

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Comments
jerry: But a lot changed in the 1960’s as the North became atheistic and drifted to the Democratic party while the religious South was appalled by Roe vs Wade and switched to the more moral of the two parties, the Republicans. By this time, sexual freedom and all its ramifications became part of the Democratic Party which led the intellectual North to it. Sure, that and outside "agitators" forcing the South to abandon Jim Crow.
Lee Atwater, American political consultant and Republican party strategist, advisor of 40th U.S. President Ronald Reagan, campaign manager for 41st U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Chairman of the Republican National Committee: You start out in 1954 by saying, “Ni&&er, ni&&er, ni&&er.” By 1968 you can't say “ni&&er” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is blacks get hurt worse than whites.
Zachriel
August 2, 2015
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But the point is that a large majority of Southern voters switched parties during this time
Your analysis misses a lot of key points. It is generally correct but the Democratic Party of the early 20th century was a mixture of the solid South and the Catholic north. They hated each other but were attracted to the Democratic Party because they both hated Republicans. Catholics were then at best, working class and took over the local politics of northern cities. Their logical affiliation was anti-Republican which put them in league with people who hated them. The Republicans were the transformation of the Whigs of the 1820's started by Henry Clay as a reaction to the debacle of the War of 1812, They elected two presidents but disappeared in the 1850's to be replaced by the Republicans. Lincoln was originally a Whig. They differed from the Democrats of Jefferson in the sense that they were middle class and business oriented while the Democrats were agrarian and supported slavery as their God given right to freedom to own slaves. The Whigs like the Federalists looked very favorably on government support of national projects. For example, Lincoln was a major proponent of building railroads and instituted the Homestead Act. After the Civil War, the Democratic party was entrenched in the South as a reaction to control by the Republicans and voted straight Democrat for over 100 years. But a lot changed in the 1960's as the North became atheistic and drifted to the Democratic party while the religious South was appalled by Roe vs Wade and switched to the more moral of the two parties, the Republicans. By this time, sexual freedom and all its ramifications became part of the Democratic Party which led the intellectual North to it. Blacks switched to the Democratic Party under Roosevelt and have been part of it since. Without the blacks, the Democrats would have trouble electing dog catchers anywhere. If one wants to see the transition of the Democratic Party ideologically in the last 50 years read the book "Can a Catholic be a Democrat." It is not necessary to be a Catholic to see how a large percentage of the electorate views Democrat politicians as essentially immoral. http://www.amazon.com/Can-Catholic-Democrat-David-Carlin/dp/1933184191 It is a devastating analysis of the Democratic Party by a Catholic who lived and breathed the party for most of his life. There are other forces behind modern success by the Democratic Party, and these involve around identity politics, women, Hispanic, homosexuality and the power of government unions in some areas especially California. The Democratic party of the 1960's was fiercely anti communist and pro military. It is anything but today.jerry
August 2, 2015
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kairosfocus: The fascists speak: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm note the very strong statism and anti-individualism and the rejection of majority vote, down to state creates nation. Yes, stringent anti-egalitarianism, which is why fascism is considered a movement of the extreme political right. Or to quote from your linked article:
Benito Mussolini: Granted that the XIXth century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the XXth century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the "right", a Fascist century.
Zachriel
August 2, 2015
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Heartlander: It is from Margaret Sanger’s December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts. Look it up… You apparently don't know what constitutes a quote-mine. Look it up... Heartlander: Ah yes Dixiecrats… Let’s take a look at how many Dixiecrat segregationalists remained Democrats, Of course. Most southern conservatives remained Democrats because for a century southern political power was organized through the Democratic Party. It took more than a generation for white southerners to switch to Republicans. You’re still conflating the left-right dichotomy with Democratic-Republican. Southern Democrats at the time were conservative Democrats.Zachriel
August 2, 2015
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Kairosfocus, Yes, I forgot to attribute my comments to Mises, the man who destroyed socialism as a viable concept. A lot of the prevalence of socialism in the modern world is due incredibly bad academic thinking but also hate. See this interesting video on political correctness and the Frankfurt School. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6c_dinY3fM There are a couple links at the end of the video to more on the Frankfurt School and communism. Socialism is built on not just bad ideas but hate. A hate for those who succeed. But the only moral way to distribute goods is through free markets. This allows each individual to succeed if they can. Obviously not all do. I was a failure for most of my business career but found a way by starting a small business with my wife. People lump all the forms of capitalism together as if it were one monolithic movement and then attribute all the wrongs to what may be particular to one or the other versions of it. Interesting perversion of logic and reason that leads one to the various forms of statism. Off to my vacation with my wife and cousins but will check on this thread if there is time. Will see what kind of perversions the defenders of statism come up with.jerry
August 2, 2015
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Jerry: I hear you, and that's a great link. I shudder to have to ask this: has statist political messianism working as fascism ultimately won (though obviously not under that name)? Jonah Goldberg, HT Ed Driscoll at Instapundit, in his Liberal Fascism or more precisely a 2009 i/view on it:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/227622/liberal-fascism-20-interview You know, when I first started pondering the book, I thought it might be all about economics. About ten years ago I went on a junket to Switzerland and attended a talk with the CEO of Nestlé. Listening to him, it became very clear to me that he had little to no interest in free markets or capitalism properly understood. He saw his corporation as a “partner” with governments, NGOs, the U.N., and other massive multinationals. The profit motive was good for efficiency and rewarding talent, but beyond that, he wanted order and predictability and as much planning as he could get. I think that mindset informs the entire class of transnational progressives, the shock troops of what H. G. Wells hoped would lead to his liberal-fascist “world brain.” If you look at how most liberals think about economics, they want big corporations and big government working in tandem with labor, universities (think industrial policy), and progressive organizations to come up with “inclusive” policies set at the national or international level. That’s not necessarily socialism — it’s corporatism. When you listen to how Obama is making economic policy with “everyone at the table,” he’s describing corporatism, the economic philosophy of fascism. Government is the senior partner, but all of the other institutions are on board — so long as they agree with the government’s agenda. The people left out of this coordinated effort — the Nazis called it the Gleichschaltung — are the small businessmen, the entrepreneurs, the ideological, social, or economic mavericks who don’t want to play along. When you listen to Obama demonize Chrysler’s bondholders simply because they want their contracts enforced and the rule of law sustained, you get a sense of what I’m talking about. I don’t think Obama wants a brutal tyranny any more than Hillary Clinton does (which is to say I don’t think he wants anything of the sort). But I do think they honestly believe that progress is best served if everyone falls in line with a national agenda, a unifying purpose, a “village” mentality expanded to include all of society. That sentiment drips from almost every liberal exhortation about everything from global warming to national service. But to point it out earns you the label of crank. As I said a minute ago about that “We’re All Fascists Now” chapter, I think people fail to understand that tyrannies — including soft, Huxleyan tyrannies — aren’t born from criminal conspiracies by evil men; they’re born by progressive groupthink.
In short the tug to look to ever increased state power and control to rescue us from the perceived or actual instability or chaos is always there. And, it seems oh so reasonable that enough people from the right Schools now in boardrooms, Parliaments & co, with just the right salting from the tool-room through some bright union boys etc, can do it. All so progressive, so clinically neat, so cleverly phrased, so sustainable. von Mises blows it all apart -- and BTW in the same book I have linked and clipped above: https://mises.org/library/socialism-economic-and-sociological-analysis I remember quite a few years ago, as I wound up affairs in my homeland, heading to where I now live, I took up a series of 600 word letters to the editor of the main newspaper as I saw some worrying issues. Successful, until I wrote one on von Mises' point. The second key issue with understanding the power of market exchanges in a community, is that they solve an huge information and control problem: how to allocate a vast number of units of goods and services across a wide area, among competing possible uses, without chaos, confusion, undue delay (think perishables such as fruit here) and horrific waste and want? The first key? We often fail to understand that the economic exchange is a mutual benefit. I prefer the loaf of bread, the baker, my cash. Even, when I would wish the bread were cheaper. And as bread is very perishable, the baker can see readily if price and quantity are out of whack. Where also, as cost to enter/exit is low enough the market is contestable. So now, how do we solve the information and co-ordination problem? What I wrote way back, was that this is a computer architecture problem in disguise: centralised processing (next door to where I wrote was the then overawing Vax 11/786 -- I forget specifics, I think this was it -- computer centre with a whole gig of live ram . . . ) vs coupled, distributed but individually far less capable processors. That is, economies are always planned, the issue is the balance of centralised vs distributed planning. What von Mises saw was that centralisation as utterly dominant cannot work, for multiple reasons, it is just not technically feasible to focus and process the required information to co-ordinate. Not least, it is intrinsically local, personal, often intuitive, and highly perishable. So excessive centralisation and linked power over-concentration (tempting to pols, bureaucrats, wonks, uni grads and the like) will be far more wasteful, chaotic and incompetent than the collective of households, firms and the like in an economy as a whole. A classic story on this is, the lesson that no one person truly knows how to make a modern industrially produced pencil. Also, a mesh network is far more failure and error tolerant than a concentrated star. (So it makes sense to provide some sort of cushion than to try to eliminate failure.) And so, we see that excessive economic centralisation will fail. Not just in private hands but in public hands or those of the soviets of the economy under Gov't "sponsorship." Soviets? Yes, cf Wikipedia, inadvertently speaking against progressivist interest:
“Soviet” is derived from a Russian word signifying council, assembly, advice, harmony, concord,[trans 1] ultimately deriving from the Proto-Slavic verbal stem of *vetiti "to talk, speak". The word "sovietnik" means councillor.[1] A number of organizations in Russian history were called "council" (Russian: sov[i]et ). For example, in Imperial Russia, the State Council, which functioned from 1810 to 1917, was referred to as a Council of Ministers after the revolt of 1905.[1] . . . . According to the official historiography of the Soviet Union, the first worker's council (soviet) was formed in May 1905 in Ivanovo (north-east of Moscow) during the 1905 Russian Revolution (Ivanovsky Soviet). However in his memoirs, the Russian Anarchist Volin claims that he witnessed the beginnings of the St Petersburg Soviet in January 1905. The Russian workers were largely organized at the turn of the 20th century, leading to a government-sponsored trade union leadership. In 1905, as the Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905) increased the strain on Russian industrial production, the workers began to strike and rebel. The soviets represented an autonomous workers' movement, one that broke free from the government's oversight of workers' unions. Soviets sprang up throughout the industrial centers of Russia, usually organized at the factory level. The soviets disappeared after the Revolution of 1905, but re-emerged under socialist leadership during the revolutions of 1917.
In short, the idea of state guided councils is well known. And if one is sliding into the deadly vortex of ruthless political power, the idea becomes yet another means of centralised tyrannical control, implicitly backed up by the secret state police and the infamous hobnail boots crunching down the corridor to an apartment at 4 am. So, the issue is to escape the vortex and move to the centre based on understanding the dynamics of limited government, economic and political freedom under the civil peace of justice defended by the legitimate state under Him who sponsors justice as the source of moral government, and with the consent of the governed. But, increasingly, we would not have Him to rule over us, nor do we wish to acknowledge that we owe him any loyalty or reasonable service by doing the good in accord with our evident nature, in a proper balance of rights, responsibilities and freedoms. That odd whirling sucking noise you hear in the background is our civilisation beginning to swirl out of control down into the deadly vortex of oppressive domineering ever growing state power. A march of folly in the name of people power: http://kairosfocus.blogspot.com/2013/01/acts-27-test-1-on-celebrating-new-year.html And no, the "real" pressing problem is not the foil we so commonly hear: "right wing fundy theocratic terrorism, micro aggression and ultimate Christo-fascist dictatorship." That is a strawman, scapegoat, polarising distraction. We need to recognise what is happening in light of recognising a growing "train of abuses and usurpations," and find a way to swim against the swirling vortex to make our way back to the inherently unstable but with vigilance sustainable balance point at the centre of our space, aptly described in the US DoI of 1776:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security . . . .
KFkairosfocus
August 2, 2015
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Heartlander, I’m not sure what the point of your posts are, but you do realize that a century ago, most liberals voted Republican and most conservatives voted Dem, right? New England and California were pretty solidly Republican, and states from Texas to Georgia were solidly Democrat, the then states-rights party. A couple of national events essentially switched the memberships of the two parties from what they were a century ago. The first was infighting within the Republican party that started as the Progressive Era heated up. During this time, the Republicans not only dominated the northern liberal vote, but also had a good chunk of the northern conservative vote. And being that there were more “Northern” states than “Southern” states, the Republicans dominated national politics. But eventually, as one might imagine, tensions arose between the progressives and conservatives in the party. Teddy Roosevelt was the leading progressive politician of the era, and also the leader of the Republican party. As the infighting got worse (particularly between him and Taft) he eventually left the party to form the “Progressive” or “Bull-Moose” party and ran as a third party candidate in 1912. The Democrats, sensing a weakness in the Republican party and a chance to pull away some of the progressive vote, nominated Woodrow Wilson. The Democrats, with the bulk of the conservative vote, and having some success at courting progressives, easily won with 435 electoral votes. Teddy and the Progressive party, after taking away most of the progressive vote from the Republican party, came in second with 88 electoral votes. The Republicans with – well, not much left – some northern and western conservatives – came in a distant third with 8 electoral votes. Most of the progressives rejoined the Republican party after the 1912 election, but the Democrats continued the strategy of courting them away from the GOP for the next couple decades, finally winning most of them over during the Great Depression when they voted for FDR. Now it was the Dems turn to dominate national politics. They held the bulk of the liberal vote in the North – where most voters were liberal - and owned the conservative vote in the South – where most voters were conservative! They dominated like no party ever has. It might seem like an unstable situation but remember that this is still a time when the maxim “politics is local” was actually true. A liberal Boston Dem wasn’t asked to explain or apologize for what a Dem in Alabama said in support of lynching, and vice versa. And so the arrangement actually worked (at least for the most part – there were a couple hiccups, like Thurmond running as a Dixiecrat in 1948) – and would continue to work as long as there wasn’t a political controversy pitting liberals against conservatives on a national scale. Of course, that happened with the Civil Rights era. The one time a Republican won the presidency during this period was Eisenhower in 1856, and that’s because he was a national hero . But even Eisenhower – in the Republican landslide victory - couldn’t win states like Mississipi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina, which shows how solidly Dem they were. Suddenly, just 8 years later – 1964 - they were 4 of only 6 states that the Republicans managed to win in a landslide loss! It shows how many southern voters had suddenly switched parties. Just as Dems once took advantage of an opportunity to steal away liberal voters from the Republicans, the Republicans now saw an opportunity to steal away unhappy Southern conservatives from the Dem party. Goldwater in 64 and then Nixon in 68 won the South with the infamous “Southern strategy” of winning over the “Negrophobe whites” of the South. (George Wallace threw a wrench in Nixon’s strategy in 68 by running as a third party conservative candidate in 1968 and taking many of the southern states himself away from Nixon. But Nixon managed just enough Southern states to squeak out a victory in what should have been an easy landslide.) The list of “Dixiecrats who remained Democrats after 1964” is a bit misleading. Orval Fabus, fed up with his party, left politics in 1966. George Wallace did remain a dem – for a while – he left to form a new conservative party in 68 and ran for president, causing headaches for Nixon. (That alone shows how things have changed. Just a few years earlier, if George Wallace had run as a third party candidate, it would have stolen votes away from the Democrats. But now, despite running on the same platform, he was stealing votes away from the Republicans.) Others on the list changed their view (or at least their platforms) – this includes Byrd, Gore Sr, Stennis, and Eastland. There were some die-hards that stayed dem and managed to hold on to their office, as they were very popular in their states, but they were the last of their breed. Almost all of their replacements would be Republicans. Also, although they were registered as Democrats, many of them didn’t see themselves as part of the national Democrat Party. As George Wallace would put it: “I am an Alabama Democrat, not a national Democrat. I’m not kin to those folks. The difference between a national Democrat and an Alabama Democrat is like the difference between a Communist and a non-Communist.” But the point is that a large majority of Southern voters switched parties during this time (as can be seen by looking at just about any election during this period. Several southern states would have their first GOP governor since the Reconstruction period.) And it wasn’t because Southerners suddenly switched from being liberal to conservative.goodusername
August 1, 2015
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Kairosfocus, A someewhat related link from today http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/211706/ This is my other favorite topic beside evolution. This isn't the place to discuss it since the typical responses from the statism side here are so inane. It is not worth it. Often the jousting over evolution isn't worth it either since there is no serious discussion from the anti-ID side. It seems funny, pro statism and pro natualistic evolution are fellow travelers. Not all but a high correlation. I have copied this thread to my IPad to read on my vacation next week. Socialism can never work because the is no pricing mechanism to tell the economy how much to produce. Profit is essential to a working economy because like prices it is a signal as to what the economy finds desirable. These two elements are communication devices that do not exist in socialism or a statism approach and thus will inevitably lead to dysfunction and the requirement for oppression to maintain stability.jerry
August 1, 2015
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The fascists speak: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm note the very strong statism and anti-individualism and the rejection of majority vote, down to state creates nation. KFkairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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On a side note, a little history about Fred Phelps and Al Gore.Heartlander
August 1, 2015
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Axel @145,
There should be no problem with a Christian socialism, however, so I can only assume Pius XI view socialism as inevitably atheistic and totalitarian.
For whatever it is worth, here is another excerpt from Pius XI's On Reconstruction of the Social Order that explains his belief that socialism and Christianity cannot be reconciled:
117. But what if Socialism has really been so tempered and modified as to the class struggle and private ownership that there is in it no longer anything to be censured on these points? Has it thereby renounced its contradictory nature to the Christian religion? This is the question that holds many minds in suspense. And numerous are the Catholics who, although they clearly understand that Christian principles can never be abandoned or diminished seem to turn their eyes to the Holy See and earnestly beseech Us to decide whether this form of Socialism has so far recovered from false doctrines that it can be accepted without the sacrifice of any Christian principle and in a certain sense be baptized. That We, in keeping with Our fatherly solicitude, may answer their petitions, We make this pronouncement: Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth. 118. For, according to Christian teaching, man, endowed with a social nature, is placed on this earth so that by leading a life in society and under an authority ordained of God he may fully cultivate and develop all his faculties unto the praise and glory of his Creator; and that by faithfully fulfilling the duties of his craft or other calling he may obtain for himself temporal and at the same time eternal happiness. Socialism, on the other hand, wholly ignoring and indifferent to this sublime end of both man and society, affirms that human association has been instituted for the sake of material advantage alone. 119. Because of the fact that goods are produced more efficiently by a suitable division of labor than by the scattered efforts of individuals, socialists infer that economic activity, only the material ends of which enter into their thinking, ought of necessity to be carried on socially. Because of this necessity, they hold that men are obliged, with respect to the producing of goods, to surrender and subject themselves entirely to society. Indeed, possession of the greatest possible supply of things that serve the advantages of this life is considered of such great importance that the higher goods of man, liberty not excepted, must take a secondary place and even be sacrificed to the demands of the most efficient production of goods. This damage to human dignity, undergone in the "socialized" process of production, will be easily offset, they say, by the abundance of socially produced goods which will pour out in profusion to individuals to be used freely at their pleasure for comforts and cultural development. Society, therefore, as Socialism conceives it, can on the one hand neither exist nor be thought of without an obviously excessive use of force; on the other hand, it fosters a liberty no less false, since there is no place in it for true social authority, which rests not on temporal and material advantages but descends from God alone, the Creator and last end of all things.
harry
August 1, 2015
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Zac@143"Don’t suppose you fell for an old quote-mine, do you?" It is from Margaret Sanger’s December 19, 1939 letter to Dr. Clarence Gamble, 255 Adams Street, Milton, Massachusetts. Look it up... Zac@143"You do realize that the Democratic Party fractured between its liberal and conservative wings? Have you ever heard of the Dixiecrats?" Ah yes Dixiecrats... Let's take a look at how many Dixiecrat segregationalists remained Democrats, and how many switched parties: Dixiecrats who remained Democrats after 1964: Orval Fabus Benjamin Travis Laney John Stennis James Eastland Allen Ellender Russell Long John Sparkman John McClellan Richard Russell Herman Talmadge George Wallace Lester Maddox John Rarick Robert Byrd Al Gore, Sr. Bull Connor Dixiecrats who became Republicans after 1964: Strom Thurmond Miles GodwinHeartlander
August 1, 2015
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... mixed economy and all....Axel
August 1, 2015
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Axel, ironically, I am currently advocating that we should have an organised publicly accountable advisory community forum attached to our unicameral legislature that captures district level representation and civil society bodies. KFkairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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Thanks for that, too, Kairosfocus. It seems far more complex than I had realised; though I'm not sure fascism's net effects were any the less malign for that. Russian Communism was hijacked by Stalin, it has plausibly been said, but atheistically-inpired as it was, it was never a credible ideology in a Christian or post-Christian European society, and always likely to be oppressively totalitarian; particularly, since it was always going to be under siege by their equally-corrupt capitalist counterparts. There should be no problem with a Christian socialism, however, so I can only assume Pius XI view socialism as inevitably atheistic and totalitarian. The countries of Scandinavia, surprisingly well-disposed towards Christian churches, have been an example to the whole world, imhpo.Axel
August 1, 2015
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Pardon, English translation 1951 fr 1932 2nd German edn, first is 1922.kairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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Heartlander: We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members. Makes you wonder why Dr. King would accept such an award. Don't suppose you fell for an old quote-mine, do you? Heartlander: The first black members of the US House and Senate were Republicans. The first civil rights legislation came from Republicans. That's right! Of course, you're still conflating the left-right dichotomy with Democratic-Republican. You do realize that the Democratic Party fractured between its liberal and conservative wings? Have you ever heard of the Dixiecrats? George Wallace?Zachriel
August 1, 2015
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Zac@108"That’s interesting. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr won the award in 1966."
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members." - Margaret Sanger
Zac@112"The left is characterized as resistance to racism, such as during the U.S. civil rights movement in the 1960s."
The first black members of the US House and Senate were Republicans. The first civil rights legislation came from Republicans. Democrats gave us the KKK, Jim Crow, lynchings, poll taxes, literacy tests, and failed policies like the “Great Society.” Republican President Eisenhower ordered troops to enforce school desegregation. Republican Senator Everett Dirksen enabled the 1964 civil rights legislation to pass, in opposition to Democrat Senators Robert Byrd (KKK Grand Wizard) and Al Gore, Sr. -Allen West
"I’ll have those n!@@rs voting Democratic for the next 200 years.” -Lyndon Baines Johnson about the Great Society plan.
Heartlander
August 1, 2015
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Axel, observe the manifesto and the actual programme, and particularly what corporatism meant and where it came from. Let me clip more from Richman as seen at 125: _______________ >>As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism. Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions. Fascism is to be distinguished from interventionism, or the mixed economy. Interventionism seeks to guide the market process, not eliminate it, as fascism did. Minimum-wage and antitrust laws, though they regulate the free market, are a far cry from multiyear plans from the Ministry of Economics. Under fascism, the state, through official cartels, controlled all aspects of manufacturing, commerce, finance, and agriculture. Planning boards set product lines, production levels, prices, wages, working conditions, and the size of firms. Licensing was ubiquitous; no economic activity could be undertaken without government permission. Levels of consumption were dictated by the state, and “excess” incomes had to be surrendered as taxes or “loans.” The consequent burdening of manufacturers gave advantages to foreign firms wishing to export. But since government policy aimed at autarky, or national self-sufficiency, protectionism was necessary: imports were barred or strictly controlled, leaving foreign conquest as the only avenue for access to resources unavailable domestically. Fascism was thus incompatible with peace and the international division of labor—hallmarks of liberalism. Fascism embodied corporatism, in which political representation was based on trade and industry rather than on geography. In this, fascism revealed its roots in syndicalism, a form of socialism originating on the left. The government cartelized firms of the same industry, with representatives of labor and management serving on myriad local, regional, and national boards—subject always to the final authority of the dictator’s economic plan. Corporatism was intended to avert unsettling divisions within the nation, such as lockouts and union strikes. The price of such forced “harmony” was the loss of the ability to bargain and move about freely. To maintain high employment and minimize popular discontent, fascist governments also undertook massive public-works projects financed by steep taxes, borrowing, and fiat money creation. While many of these projects were domestic—roads, buildings, stadiums—the largest project of all was militarism, with huge armies and arms production. The fascist leaders’ antagonism to communism has been misinterpreted as an affinity for capitalism. In fact, fascists’ anticommunism was motivated by a belief that in the collectivist milieu of early-twentieth-century Europe, communism was its closest rival for people’s allegiance. As with communism, under fascism, every citizen was regarded as an employee and tenant of the totalitarian, party-dominated state. Consequently, it was the state’s prerogative to use force, or the threat of it, to suppress even peaceful opposition. If a formal architect of fascism can be identified, it is Benito Mussolini, the onetime Marxist editor who, caught up in nationalist fervor, broke with the left as World War I approached and became Italy’s leader in 1922. Mussolini distinguished fascism from liberal capitalism in his 1928 autobiography: The citizen in the Fascist State is no longer a selfish individual who has the anti-social right of rebelling against any law of the Collectivity. The Fascist State with its corporative conception puts men and their possibilities into productive work and interprets for them the duties they have to fulfill. (p. 280) Before his foray into imperialism in 1935, Mussolini was often praised by prominent Americans and Britons, including Winston Churchill, for his economic program. Similarly, Adolf Hitler, whose National Socialist (Nazi) Party adapted fascism to Germany beginning in 1933, said: The state should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control the owners of property. (Barkai 1990, pp. 26–27) Both nations exhibited elaborate planning schemes for their economies in order to carry out the state’s objectives. Mussolini’s corporate state “consider[ed] private initiative in production the most effective instrument to protect national interests” (Basch 1937, p. 97). But the meaning of “initiative” differed significantly from its meaning in a market economy. Labor and management were organized into twenty-two industry and trade “corporations,” each with Fascist Party members as senior participants. The corporations were consolidated into a National Council of Corporations; however, the real decisions were made by state agencies such as the Instituto per la Ricosstruzione Industriale, which held shares in industrial, agricultural, and real estate enterprises, and the Instituto Mobiliare, which controlled the nation’s credit. Hitler’s regime eliminated small corporations and made membership in cartels mandatory.1 The Reich Economic Chamber was at the top of a complicated bureaucracy comprising nearly two hundred organizations organized along industry, commercial, and craft lines, as well as several national councils. The Labor Front, an extension of the Nazi Party, directed all labor matters, including wages and assignment of workers to particular jobs. Labor conscription was inaugurated in 1938. Two years earlier, Hitler had imposed a four-year plan to shift the nation’s economy to a war footing. In Europe during this era, Spain, Portugal, and Greece also instituted fascist economies. In the United States, beginning in 1933, the constellation of government interventions known as the New Deal had features suggestive of the corporate state. The National Industrial Recovery Act created code authorities and codes of practice that governed all aspects of manufacturing and commerce. The National Labor Relations Act made the federal government the final arbiter in labor issues. The Agricultural Adjustment Act introduced central planning to farming. The object was to reduce competition and output in order to keep prices and incomes of particular groups from falling during the Great Depression. It is a matter of controversy whether President Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal was directly influenced by fascist economic policies. Mussolini praised the New Deal as “boldly . . . interventionist in the field of economics,” and Roosevelt complimented Mussolini for his “honest purpose of restoring Italy” and acknowledged that he kept “in fairly close touch with that admirable Italian gentleman.” Also, Hugh Johnson, head of the National Recovery Administration, was known to carry a copy of Raffaello Viglione’s pro-Mussolini book, The Corporate State, with him, presented a copy to Labor Secretary Frances Perkins, and, on retirement, paid tribute to the Italian dictator. About the Author Sheldon Richman is the editor of The Freeman: Ideas on Liberty at the Foundation for Economic Education in Irvingtonon-Hudson, N.Y. Further Reading Barkai, Avraham. Nazi Economics: Ideology, Theory, and Policy. Trans. Ruth Hadass-Vashitz. Oxford: Berg Publishers Ltd., 1990. Basch, Ernst. The Fascist: His State and His Mind. New York: Morrow, 1937. Diggins, John P. Mussolini and Fascism: The View from America. Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1972. Flynn, John T. As We Go Marching. 1944. Reprint. New York: Free Life Editions, 1973. Flynn, John T. The Roosevelt Myth. New York: Devin-Adair, 1948. Laqueur, Walter, ed. Fascism: A Reader’s Guide. Berkeley: University of California Press, 1976. Mises, Ludwig von. Omnipotent Government. New Rochelle, N.Y.: Arlington House, 1944. Mussolini, Benito. Fascism: Doctrine and Institutions. Firenze: Vallecchi, 1935. Mussolini, Benito. My Autobiography. New York: Scribner’s, 1928. Pitigliani, Fauto. The Italian Corporative State. New York: Macmillan, 1934. Powell, Jim. FDR’s Folly: How Roosevelt and His New Deal Prolonged the Great Depression. New York: Crown Forum, 2003. Shirer, William L. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1960. Twight, Charlotte. America’s Emerging Fascist Economy. New Rochelle, N.Y.: Arlington House, 1975. Footnotes 1. “Laws decreed in October 1937 simply dissolved all corporations with a capital under $40,000 and forbade the establishment of new ones with a capital less than $20,000” (Shirer 1959, p. 262).>> __________________ In short, state control through and through of capital and labour etc. KFkairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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F/N: I am clipping von Mises' introductory remarks from the book downloadable here https://mises.org/library/socialism-economic-and-sociological-analysis as this will give us relevant context . . . where in effect all are in principle socialist, the spectrum of politics is a socialist-centric one, which should immediately throw much light on how the chattering classes speak about progressivism, sustainability [a major UN vote comes up next month on SD goals to take over from Millennium Development Goals] and "social justice" and "equality" etc in our day: ________________ >>Socialism is the watchword and the catchword of our day. The socialist idea dominates the modern spirit. The masses approve of it, it expresses the thoughts and feelings of all; it has set its seal upon our time. When history comes to tell our story it will write above the chapter ‘The Epoch of Socialism’. As yet, it is true, Socialism has not created a society which can be said to represent its ideal. But for more than a generation [c. 1951] the policies of civilized nations have been directed towards nothing less than a gradual realization of Socialism.‘ In recent years the move-ment has grown noticeably in vigour and tenacity. Some nations have sought to achieve Socialism, in its fullest sense, at a single stroke. Before our eyes Russian Bolshevism has already accomplished something which, whatever we believe to be its significance, must by the very magnitude of its design be regarded as one of the most remarkable achievements known to world history. Elsewhere no one has yet achieved so much. But with other peoples only the inner contradictions of Socialism itself and the fact that it cannot be com-pletely realized have frustrated socialist triumph. They also have gone as far as they could under the given circumstances. Opposition in principle to Socialism there is none. To-day no in?uential party would dare openly to advocate Private Property in the Means of Production. The word ‘Capitalism’ expresses, for our age, the sum of all evil. Even the opponents of Socialism are dominated by socialist ideas. In seeking to combat Socialism from the standpoint of their special class interest these opponents — the parties which par-ticularly call themselves ‘bourgeois’ or ‘peasant’ — admit indirectly the validity of all the essentials of socialist thought. For if it is only possible to argue against the socialist programme that it endangers the particular interests of one part of humanity, one has really affirmed Socialism. If one complains that the system of economic and social organization which is based on private property in the means of production does not sufficiently consider the interests of the community, that it serves only the purposes of single strata, and that it limits productivity; and if therefore one demands with the sup-porters of the various ‘social-political’ and ‘social-reform’ movements, state interference in all ?elds of economic life, then one has funda-mentally accepted the principle of the socialist programme. Or again, if one can only argue against Socialism that the imperfections of human nature make its realization impossible, or that it is in-expedient under existing economic conditions to proceed at once to socialization, then one merely confesses that one has capitulated to socialist ideas. The nationalist, too, affirms Socialism, and objects only to its Internationalism. He wishes to combine Socialism with the ideas of Imperialism and the struggle against foreign nations. He is a national, not an international socialist; but he, also, approves of the essential principles of Socialism. The supporters of Socialism therefore are not confined to the Bolshevists and their friends outside Russia or to the members of the numerous socialist parties: all are socialists who consider the socialistic order of society economically and ethically superior to that based on private ownership of the means of production, even though they may try for one reason or another to make a tem-porary or permanent compromise between their socialistic ideal and the particular interests which they believe themselves to represent. If we define Socialism as broadly as this we see that the great majority of people are with Socialism today [c. 1951] . . . >> _________________ (The shift in the world of thought is that post the 1980's Marxist-Leninist Communism collapsed in ignominy.) KFkairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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KF: You know that Mussolini described fascism as 'corporatism, don't you? Government by the multinationals (rather more blandly labelled, 'corporations' or 'large corporations') which, notoriously, of course, owe allegiance to no country, appears to have been usurping the governance of the US.Axel
August 1, 2015
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Harry, I think we fundamentally agree. My underlying theme is that the sound lessons of history are written in blood and tears, so those who ignore, dismiss, twist or corrupt them doom themselves to learn them again at much the same price. Hence, for polities, the deadly vortex model now under construction by way of response to the abusive rhetoric of the right wing theocratic anti-science, anti-progress anti-equality threat that seems to be a key motivator for ever so many evolutionary materialist scientistic secular humanists and their fellow travelers. It probably is relevant that, live, I am working on a charter of good government initiative. KFkairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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kairosfocus, The fundamental problem is fallen human nature. Some forms of government are intrinsically evil from the beginning; others are not intrinsically evil from the start, but are just based on stupid ideas; and still others actually start out quite good, being based as they are upon the truths of the natural law. No matter how a government starts, due to the fallen nature of humanity, it will eventually, if it didn't start out that way, experience the rise of a self-serving ruling class that does not feel obliged to "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity." They instead use the coercive power of government as the means by which they protect and serve their own interests. Or, to put it more concisely, they have no regard for the common good or the intrinsic rights of any and every human being. This basic injustice can and does occur under communism, socialism, capitalism, and in democracies like that in the U.S. where the majority rules when its wishes coincide with those of the ruling class, and is overruled by judges when it doesn't. Fallen human nature, without availing itself of grace, is self-serving. Lord Acton's remark, while it is admittedly a cliché, is nonetheless true: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Absolute corruption of the ruling class always ends in the deification of the state, where Caesar insists that humanity render unto him authority that belongs to God alone, as in the state claiming for itself the authority to sanction the killing of innocent human beings as a matter of social policy. They only way to mitigate this tendency of all governments to become corrupt is the popular recognition of a few basic truths: 1) Humanity precedes the state and brings it into existence. The state therefore exists for humanity, not humanity for the state. 2) It is humanity that bestows and withdraws the state's right to exist, not the state that bestows and withdraws innocent humanity's right to exist, as in Caesar pretending to have the authority to sanction the killing of innocent humanity as a matter of social policy. 3) The more concentrated power is, the more quickly it becomes corrupt. This is why the American Founders insisted that "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." And knowing that the corruption of the government they established would eventually come about, also insisted that "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The inevitable corruption caused by concentrations of power is why Catholic Social Teaching insists on the diffusion of governmental power, or "subsidiarity," which is the principle, as it relates to good government, that matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority. Political decisions should be taken at a local level if possible, rather than by a central authority. As a Catholic and one who has great admiration for the wisdom of America's Founders, I can't help but think that the Church and the Founders have it right. I also believe that those who have no conception of humanity's fallen nature will never understand these things, and in confusing license with liberty, are doomed to end up being oppressed by a totalitarian state, and in their ignorance doom their children and grandchildren to the same. For the sake of our children and grandchildren, it is time to knock Caesar off his high horse and put him back in his place as one who the people have delegated to exercise the legitimate authority of government that comes from God alone.harry
August 1, 2015
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Zachriel, the old fashioned L/R spectrun is dead, killed by confusions and blunders like the assigning of Fascism and Nazism (this last actually confessedly socialist in name!) to the right wing instead of the statist-totalitarian socialist but also nationalist (not internationalist) left. I'd reckon that Mussolini's game co-opted existing elites, panicky in the face of chaos and kept them happy as the marshes were drained and the trains ran on time. Military failure led to his collapse. But the coercive power of the totalitarian state and secret police power points to state domination. KFkairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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Zachriel, the true issue is what, properly is "right wing" if the iconic extreme right wing cases -- fascism and Nazism -- turn out to be instead variants on socialism? (Note the platforms just put up.) That is, the spectrum collapses in confusion. As the dust settles we can see that in our civilisation, a reasonable approach is to realise the collapse of the model, and revert to a more properly dynamical framework. When we do so, we can characterise a 3-d space, let us adapt from 84 above:
DIM 1, state power: statism — limited govt — libertarianisn-anarchy [and on economics state-/cartel-/cronyist centralisaton vs free-market orientation . . . the two go together] is a more valid pattern as is DIM2, frame of Justice/law: despotism/tyranny/dictatorship - lawfulness/corpus [common, Corpus Juris etc] - constitutional democracy – anarchy, and DIM-3, leadership: autocratic - oligarchic - democratic – anarchic, yielding a cubical lattice matrix.
This readily yields a pattern, as a first rough look:
Ancient despotism: autocratic-oligarchic leadership, despotism-tyranny in law, statist-totalitarian in state power likely sanctioned by the gods State of nature: anarchy, every man does what is right in his own eyes, unstable Feudalist systems: oligarchic-hierarchical, lawful (canon or civilis or common) govt limited in practice but not in theory Absolutist monarchs: in theory absolute-autocratic, in praxis oligarchical leadership -- lawful (civilis or common) -- state in practice limited by want of capacity/stability and by what the oligarchy (leadership of the three estates) would tolerate Cromwell: de facto king with powers checked by what parliament as a whole would tolerate, common law [and a sort of constitution, Humble Petition and Advice: http://bcw-project.org/church-and-state/the-protectorate/humble-petition-and-advice cf: http://www.constitution.org/eng/conpur102.htm ] William and Mary: oligarchic partnership with parliament. 1689 bill of rights was a breakthrough, building on Magna Carta: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/england.asp Modern Constitutional Democracy: elected democratic leadership, constitution based law (can be "unwritten"/ de facto across multiple documents, e.g. Erskine May and acts at that level etc), limited govt Communism: autocratic-oligarchic, at best lawful [with some awful laws] and with an ineffective or seriously defective or even cleverly malevolent constitution bill of rights, statist-tyrannical backed by secret police. Fascism: autocratic political messianism, perhaps coopting existing elites in uneasy alliance with the new party elite, at best lawful but with secret police with few limitations, statist-tyrannical. Nazism: as with fascism save for injection of aryan man evolutionary racial elite myth that implies others not of this race are subhuman and without legal protection. Latin American autocrats: similar to Fascism, sometimes nominally socialist, maybe with some elements of democracy, often under pressure [Chavezism]. The Castros are arguably more Fascist in this context than properly classically communist. Revolutionary Iran: oligarchic-statist Islamic theocratic, lawful but with grave defects [Islamic law locks in C7 Arabian thought and culture, e.g. girls responsible at 9 yo leading to child executions], statist-tyrannical China: oligarchic-Communist Party, lawful but with serious defects, statist but with policy to cultivate markets, trending to democratisation.
The logic of this is one sadly stable pole, oppression and tyranny in various forms, a sort of vortex of political systems that has to be resisted actively and vigilantly. The opposite pole, anarchy is unstable, a foil or threat of chaos in most cases, closest thing being state of nature or a disorganised population in a region. Even families and clans move away from this naturally. Tends to repel populations to the tyranny vortex. In the middle lies a fuzzy cloud only accessible once the printing press, widespread elementary education and literacy backed up by the longbow and pike then the musket democratised populations, first in NW Europe. In this cloud modern constitutional democracies live, always being tugged back to the vortex of tyranny (often disguised as liberation and greater equality for the marginalised) and with a fringe wanting minimal government. Genuine reform and liberty are possible in this zone. In cases of collapsing ideologies, a reconstruction process will be required to ground stable democracy. At least if the post Nazi and post 1989 periods are anything to go by. Russia seems to be lapsing back into strongmanism under a former KGB Colonel. I am pessimistic about our civilisation as a whole on many levels. KFkairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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kairosfocus: a) Universal suffrage polled on a regional basis Mussolini changed his position, and fascism became a movement centered on a dictator allowing for unified and coordinated national action, which, along with support from traditional rightist allies among business and political elites, is why people then and now consider fascism a movement of the right.Zachriel
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PPS: The Fascist Manifesto, per Vox Day translation -- it is not commonly available in English: >>The Manifesto of the Fascist Struggle, published in The People of Italy on June 6, 1919. Italians! Here is the program of a genuinely Italian movement. It is revolutionary because it is anti-dogmatic, strongly innovative and against prejudice. For the political problem: We demand: a) Universal suffrage polled on a regional basis, with proportional representation and voting and electoral office eligibility for women. b) A minimum age for the voting electorate of 18 years; that for the office holders at 25 years. c) The abolition of the Senate. d) The convocation of a National Assembly for a three-years duration, for which its primary responsibility will be to form a constitution of the State. e) The formation of a National Council of experts for labor, for industy, for transportation, for the public health, for communications, etc. Selections to be made from the collective professionals or of tradesmen with legislative powers, and elected directly to a General Commission with ministerial powers. For the social problems: We demand: a) The quick enactment of a law of the State that sanctions an eight-hour workday for all workers. b) A minimum wage. c) The participation of workers’ representatives in the functions of industry commissions. d) To show the same confidence in the labor unions (that prove to be technically and morally worthy) as is given to industry executives or public servants. e) The rapid and complete systemization of the railways and of all the transport industries. f) A necessary modification of the insurance laws to invalidate the minimum retirement age; we propose to lower it from 65 to 55 years of age. For the military problem: We demand: a) The institution of a national militia with a short period of service for training and exclusively defensive responsibilities. b) The nationalization of all the arms and explosives factories. c) A national policy intended to peacefully further the Italian national culture in the world. For the financial problem: We demand: a) A strong progressive tax on capital that will truly expropriate a portion of all wealth. b) The seizure of all the possessions of the religious congregations and the abolition of all the bishoprics, which constitute an enormous liability on the Nation and on the privileges of the poor. c) The revision of all military contracts and the seizure of 85 percent of the profits therein.>> Again, not exactly right wing . . .kairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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harry: Some humans think they are so superior to others that those other inferior humans might as well be aliens Sure. kairosfocus: we are not talking about Marx’s imaginary evolutionary sequence of societies whereby Socialism is transferred into the utopian dream of perfect Communism, but the real world cases. The real-world cases of communism are based on egalitarian principles, even if they woefully fail to achieve it. That's why the Soviets were called left-wing, while Nazi Germany was called right-wing. Notably, you still failed to address the point raised. Let's simplify it even further. Is there such a thing as right-wing authoritarianism?Zachriel
August 1, 2015
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PS: Clips from Nazi Platform's 25 points: >>10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all. Therefore we demand: 11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished. 12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits. 13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts. 14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries . . . . 16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities. 17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land. 18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race. 19. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law. 20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State. 21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young. 22. We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army. 23. We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand: (a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens. (b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language. (c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich. Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved. 24. We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the pinciple: COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD 25. In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations. The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states. The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.>> Hierarchical/ Capitalist/Monarchist Right Wing System?kairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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Zachriel, we are not talking about Marx's imaginary evolutionary sequence of societies whereby Socialism is transferred into the utopian dream of perfect Communism, but the real world cases. And in particular Communist states were dictatorial/tyrannical, with a party elite a nomenklatura or equivalent. Right wing socialism is not a general term with any recohgnised standard meaning. And of course, you still have a certain socialist workers party to reckon with -- being explicitly a socialist party is highly unlikely as the characteristic of a monarchist, Nobility or capitalist-based movement. Fascism and Nazism are best understood as kissing cousins of totalitarian radical socialism. KFkairosfocus
August 1, 2015
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