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Religious Nones: The bigger picture shows increasing polarization

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On recent Sundays, we’ve been pointing to discussions of the rise of the Religious Nones (people who say they have no religion) – and what that means and doesn’t mean. (Here and here, for example).

It doesn’t mean that former theists have become atheists or even that they are likely to. The driving factor is the collapse of mainline Protestantism, leaving people who are vaguely theist without a religious identity. Many questions lie beyond that change but first, a note about identity…

The Catholic Church is in big trouble too. But the nature of the problem is a bit different. “Catholic” is a multigenerational identity. People can think of themselves as Catholic even if no one since their grandparents’ day has ever been to mass. Put another way: They don’t think they’re atheists (that’s scary). They just continue to say they are Catholic—even if they can’t recite the Lord’s Prayer. No one challenges them on the point. Why bother? One suspects it’s roughly similar with Islam in the Middle East.

By contrast, let’s say that no one in your family has darkened the door of a mainline liberal church since your grandmother did, occasonally, in the 1960s. You probably won’t think of yourself as a member. Truth be told, such a church never had much impact on the culture around it. In recent decades, it probably became largely indistinguishable from the surrounding culture from which it got all its ideas. Its disappearance would have little cultural impact.

The rise of the Nones does mean something important, however: Those who care about the Big Questions are more visibly polarized:

Consider, for example, the percentage of Americans who report that their religious affiliation is “Strong.” This percentage has fluctuated a bit over the decades, but the most recent survey puts it at 34 percent, a number that has remained basically unchanged since 1975, when 35 percent of Americans reported a strong religious affiliation. Apparently, the rise of the Nones is not attributable to a decline in religious enthusiasm among the most strongly committed.

By contrast, the decline in the percentage of Americans who say their religious affiliation is only “Somewhat strong” appears steadier, particularly in recent years. In 2006, about 12 percent of Americans told the GSS surveyors that their affiliation was “Somewhat Strong.” In the most recent survey, that percentage has fallen to only 4 percent. That is a significant drop… Confirmation bias is always a problem when one looks at data like this. Still, the 2018 report suggests that Americans are becoming deeply divided in our attitudes toward religion, a subject about which I’ve written elsewhere. Mark Movsesian, “The Devout and the Nones” at First Things

Movsesian goes on to explain that the divide leaves a deeper mark now on American politics, with Religious Nones being the largest group in the Democratic Party (30%) and 70% of declared Republicans believing in the “God of the Bible.” The “religious left,” incidentally, now seems to be largely an artifact of thinkmags, although it was an important force decades ago.

Visible polarization enables issues to become more politicized than they otherwise could be.

Whatever happens with science issues as a result won’t be dull.

See also: Researchers: Rise In “Religious Nones” Masks Growth In Evangelicalism

and

For The First Time, “No Religion” Is The Most Popular Choice For Americans

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Comments
BB, it seems fallacies of irrelevance and toxic distortion on your part know no bounds. It is true that Christians count among our sins divisiveness, something which Jn 17:20 - 23 proscribes in very strong terms. I will note that (apart from very fringe groups on the list), serious, biblically informed members of the list of denoms would instantly agree to the Nicene Creed, which can readily be shown to be an accurate summary of the historic, Apostolic, C1 founded Christian faith. We need institutional and often individual repentance, as I have called for from appropriate platforms over the years. That said, such bears no reasonable analogy to the disintegration of understanding of naturally evident, creation order complementarity of the sexes specified by our genes and biology of reproduction that is being pushed today by the alphabet soup agenda. Such disintegration goes to our core identity as persons and is manifestly absurd on its face; indeed some of the descriptions reflect and may worsen obvious psychological problems through implanting irrational notions and encouraging ill-advised behaviour. Where, such again reflects the cultural marxist oppression thesis and is blatantly anti-civilisational through contributing to further -- note the implication that we have long been in serious trouble -- undermining of marriage and family. I note, since the founding trio of Greek philosophy and beyond, it has been known that taming and civilising young men, harnessing prowess and sexual energy in stable directions is the number one challenge of every generation of every civilisation. We are playing with ruinous fire, in a world with nukes and other horrors in play. Our hellish, suicidal folly is manifest. The question is whether we can turn back before the cliff's edge collapses underfoot, precipitating us into an apocalyptic horror beyond the nightmares in zombie movies. Which, reflect the underlying sense that we are on a cliff's edge through a popular entertainment genre. KFkairosfocus
May 10, 2019
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H (attn DS et al): You will note that I simply pointed to cases that give a lot of telling colour to the talking points being tossed around above. I have not elaborated, but those cases put a very unflattering light on some of what has gone on. KFkairosfocus
May 10, 2019
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Hazel
For BB only: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AicfqEyOHvc
Thank you for that. I just listened to it. Dylan, at least in his younger years, could see through the all the BS to the root cause of social issues. I think that pretty much sums up my opinion of religion. There is nothing wrong with religion that couldn’t be fixed by getting rid of its pompous leadership.Brother Brian
May 10, 2019
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"I think we all agree that you have far more serious issues than what my opinions are. Far, far more serious." Says the man with a psychotic pathology against God Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth and all that is in them. In your psychopathic rejection of God, you have made it abundantly clear that you have absolutely no clue what "far, far more serious" issues are, nor what they could possibly be:
Luke 12 4 “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! 5 Stories of People Who Saw HELL During Near Death Experiences... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cDGKlIzQk Quantum Mechanics, Special Relativity, General Relativity and Christianity https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4QDy1Soolo
bornagain77
May 10, 2019
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BA77
Your personal opinion of what I write is the least of my concerns.
I think we all agree that you have far more serious issues than what my opinions are. Far, far more serious. :)Brother Brian
May 10, 2019
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Again, I'm not here to please you. So I'll post how I see fit. With as much evidence as I need whenever I want. Sometimes a point being made needs ample reference, sometimes it does not. Your personal opinion of what I write is the least of my concerns.bornagain77
May 10, 2019
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BA77, I would just like to tell you, and I say this with all sincerity, that you are much more engaging and convincing when you respond with short comments in your own words, rather than the extensive cut and paste that you are known for. Take this comment as you see fit, but I just wanted to let you know that i mean this sincerely.Brother Brian
May 10, 2019
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Well BB, since you are a dogmatic Darwinist who is impervious to reason and evidence, I have long ago given up ever trying to convince you of anything. I post mainly for unbiased readers and let them judge for themselves. footnote: My 'brand' of Christianity is first and foremost, the resurrection of Christ from the dead as a propitiation for our sins. You get that part right, then the rest is just minor detailsbornagain77
May 10, 2019
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BA77
BB “But who decides what church is truly Christian?” As I somewhat alluded to in my post, God does.
Fair enough. But that begs the question, why do you and KF expend all this energy to try to convince us that your flavor of Christianity is the right one? Are you really trying to convince us, or to convince yourselves.Brother Brian
May 10, 2019
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BB "But who decides what church is truly Christian?" As I somewhat alluded to in my post at 231, God does. ,, The "adulteress church" (i.e. number 4 on the list) in the following article seems a quite fitting description for the liberal church of today The Seven Churches of Revelation https://davidjeremiah.blog/seven-churches-of-revelation-bible-study/bornagain77
May 10, 2019
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BA77
Since you are defending the gender insanity of the left, and insisting that the Church endorse such insanity,
At what point have I insisted that the church endorse anything? The point of the OP was why people are leaving the church. I presented a reason that I think is partially responsible. Frankly, I don’t care what the church does about it. All I know is that their current course will free up some prime real estate and some impressive buildings for other ventures. Possibly massage parlors or gun shops.Brother Brian
May 10, 2019
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hazel,
Interesting: kf says he needs to go no further on tangential matters, and then adds two more tangential matters.
JAD stated above that we heathens were baiting KF but perhaps it's the other way around? Really makes you think ...daveS
May 10, 2019
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Since you are defending the gender insanity of the left, and insisting that the Church endorse such insanity, should you not claim the "No true Scotswoman" fallacy? :) i.e. You are the one insanely arguing that a scotsman can be a scotswoman simply by believing it to be so. LOL,,, Ha Ha Ha,,, It is humorous that your fallacy objection can be so easily turned against your argument! :) Ha,, Ha,, Ha,,, Whew,,, "no true scotswoman fallacy! :) LOL Ha Ha Ha You guys need to get out of your dungeons more and get some better arguments! LOL ha ha ha..bornagain77
May 10, 2019
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BA77
Well just because a liberal Church who officiates gay weddings calls itself Christian does not make that Church truly Christian
But who decides what church is truly Christian? You? KF? Me? That has been my point all along. And I tried to present it on KF’s gospel OP when he claimed that nobody had addressing his core points (not that any of us could figure out what the were), just to find out that he had closed comments. So, I ask you, who determines what is the correct interpretation of the bible and god’s true teachings? The 35+ examples I provided just from the US suggests that there are as many variations as KF claims the agit-prop agenda has for gender identity. You expect me to ignore most of these Christian sects as flakes but to accept these 100 or so gender identities as being legitimately argued for. Sorry, but that is BS.Brother Brian
May 10, 2019
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From Wikipedia
No true Scotsman or appeal to purity is an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample.[1][2] Rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"; i.e., those who perform that action are not part of our group and thus criticism of that action is not criticism of the group).[3] Philosophy professor Bradley Dowden explains the fallacy as an "ad hoc rescue" of a refuted generalization attempt.[1] The following is a simplified rendition of the fallacy:[4] Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge." Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge." Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
hazel
May 10, 2019
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Well just because a liberal Church who officiates gay weddings calls itself Christian does not make that Church truly Christian anymore than man calling himself a woman makes that man truly a woman.
Pete Buttigieg doesn’t get to make up his own Christianity – April 2019 Except: Oh, I can hear your reply before you even open your mouth, Mr. Buttigieg. It is as predictable as the sunrise. “You’re missing the point” you say. “This is not about sex. It is about marriage.” Well, aside from the transparent incongruity of this claim, let’s cut to the chase and close with this: What gives you the right to redefine a sacrament of the church? You don’t get to make up your own Christianity. You also don’t get to make up your own Jesus, and in case you missed it, He is explicitly clear on His definition of marriage: “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” No, our quarrel really isn’t with your creator, sir. Our quarrel is with you.” • Everett Piper, president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University, is the author of “Not A Day Care: The Devastating Consequences of Abandoning Truth” (Regnery 2017). https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/apr/14/pete-buttigieg-doesnt-get-to-make-up-his-own-chris/
At best one can say that liberal Christians, it they are deemed Christians in God's eyes, (and who but God can know a man's heart?), are, at best, severely confused Christians about both theology and biology. Verse:
Jude 1:4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
bornagain77
May 10, 2019
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BA77
Hmmm, BB lists all the Christian denominations of America as if that refutes the gender insanity on the left. ,,,
No. I was demonstrating the inanity of KF posting gender identities from a fringe group with the very real disparity in how Christianity is applied. Christianity covers everything from officiating at same sex weddings to protesting at the funerals of homosexuals who died of AIDS.Brother Brian
May 10, 2019
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BB@223, although I often share your frustration with KF, like his responses to you on the warranted gospel thread, I think this was uncalled for. Yes, there are many variations of Christianity, but the are all base on the same fundamental beliefs.Ed George
May 10, 2019
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Hmmm, BB lists all the Christian denominations of America as if that refutes the gender insanity on the left. ,,, Well granted, Christians may argue over doctrinal issues within Christianity til the cows come home, but I bet they, (at least the conservative churches), are not the least bit confused over the fact that a man who believes he is a woman is in denial of reality and is therefore delusional.
Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist: Transgender is ‘Mental Disorder;' Sex Change ‘Biologically Impossible’ By Michael W. Chapman | June 2, 2015 https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change
bornagain77
May 10, 2019
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For BB only: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AicfqEyOHvchazel
May 10, 2019
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I recommend Google, BB. This is not a song for kf.hazel
May 10, 2019
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Hazel
From Dylan’s “Hezakiah Jones”:
I am going to have to look that one up. Provide the link to KF. :)Brother Brian
May 10, 2019
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From Dylan's "Hezakiah Jones":
He says, "Hezekiah, you believe in the Church?" Hezekiah says, "Well, the Church is divided, ain't they, And... they can't make up their minds. I'm just like them, I can't make up mine either."
The whole song has great lyrics.hazel
May 10, 2019
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Following KF’s list of gender identity, I give you a list of Christian identity:
Catholic Baptist Methodist Wesleyan Lutheran Presbyterian Protestant Pentecostal Charismatic Episcopalian Anglican Mormon Churches of Christ Congregational United Jehovah's Witness Assemblies of God Evangelical Church of God Seventh-Day Adventist Eastern Orthodox Holiness Church of the Nazarene Disciples of Christ Church of the Brethren Mennonite Dutch Reform Apostolic New Apostolic Quaker Christian Science Full Gospel Christian Reform Independent Christian Church Foursquare Gospel Fundamentalist Born Again Salvation Army
And this is only the American ones. It appears that gender is not the only thing with an identity crisis.Brother Brian
May 10, 2019
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kf writes, "I need go no further on a tangent on a matter that is not germane to focal questions." The kf writes, "PS: Given recent events at a school in Colorado, do we need a reminder that there are other cases of relevance? Do I need to point to how Asia Bibi — who thankfully just found refuge in Canada — offended those looking to be offended by simply taking a drink of water? Do I need to point to what happened to florists and bakers?" Interesting: kf says he needs to go no further on tangential matters, and then adds two more tangential matters. It is sometimes hard to know what is acceptable to bring up on his threads, and what is not.hazel
May 10, 2019
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DaveS, re your post #211 : '.....and he doesn’t go off on unhinged rants about how the gays are plotting to destroy western civilization.' Well then, DaveS, they must have been destroying it by accident, since it has long been well under way ; a theme this article, notably its link given below it, expatiates upon : https://www.veteranstoday.com/2019/05/10/apocalypto-now-abortion-and-human-sacrifice-in-the-americas/ http://www.culturewars.com/2007/Apocalypto.htm At the very least, it seems many of you haven't been paying attention ; while J M Keynes, does appears to have been aware of it, as he commended the benefits Christianity had afforded our civilisation. However, I believe there are statistics indicating that male homosexuals tend to be unusually promiscous.Axel
May 10, 2019
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SM, very well and quite soundly said. I only add, we need to re-read 1984 and Animal Farm, as a reminder of where things can end up. We need to be reminded that truth says of what is that it is and of what is not that it is not. Our first intellectual duties are to truth, right reason, prudence and justice. KFkairosfocus
May 10, 2019
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DS, pardon but that is not so; the tactic of "outing" alone should be enough to make the point, as well as the history in Germany. There is already enough above in the thread on the matter, I need go no further on a tangent on a matter that is not germane to focal questions. KF PS: Given recent events at a school in Colorado, do we need a reminder that there are other cases of relevance? Do I need to point to how Asia Bibi -- who thankfully just found refuge in Canada -- offended those looking to be offended by simply taking a drink of water? Do I need to point to what happened to florists and bakers?kairosfocus
May 10, 2019
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Dave writes, " Many would just like to live their lives without harassment." Correction: Most (the vast majority) would just like to live their lives without harassment.hazel
May 10, 2019
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SM, I have some neighbors three houses down. They are a lesbian couple, and I have been hearing some grumbling from other neighbors about this. I don't think this will escalate further, but we do have our fair share of nuts who have been known to make others' lives difficult. I would like them to feel as secure as I do and not feel the neighborhood is against them.daveS
May 10, 2019
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