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Science and Miracles

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“Disagreement is not an easy thing to reach.  Rather, we move into confusion.”  John Courtney Murray

 

My “Mirror” post has generated quite a few comments concerning “miracles” and the relevance of “miracles” to ID.  Further thoughts are in order.

First, let us define terms.  My dictionary defines “miracle” as “an event that is contrary to the established laws of nature and attributed to a supernatural cause.”

Second, ID does not posit miracles.  In this post I established the following contest: “UD hereby offers a $1,000 prize to anyone who is able to demonstrate that the design of a living thing by an intelligent agent necessarily requires a supernatural act (i.e., the suspension of the laws of nature).”  The prize has gone unclaimed.  It should be clear by now that ID is a theory about the detection of patterns that point to design.  ID is agnostic about the nature of the designer.

Conclusion:  However one comes out on the question of whether science may take account of miracles, the question is a sideshow vis-à-vis ID, because ID does not posit that a miracle is necessary to create one of the “patterns that point to design” that are described by the theory.

Third, plainly scientists may take account of miracles.  If Jesus were to appear today and divide a few loaves and fishes to feed thousands and a scientist were to observe that event, the scientist would not be bound by naturalistic explanations.  He would be perfectly entitled to conclude the event constituted a miracle. 

Would such an explanation be a scientific explanation?  Well, in one sense it does not matter whether we append “scientific” to the explanation, because whatever category we place the explanation in, it remains the fact that it is the best explanation for the data.  I would suggest, however, that it is perfectly valid to call the explanation a “scientific” explanation.  Science is the process of forming hypotheses and testing them.  Here the investigator has a null hypothesis that it is not possible to divide a few loaves and fishes such that they can feed several thousand people with several baskets of leftovers.  He compares the data with the hypothesis and finds the hypothesis falsified.  At this point the scientist can either throw up his hands or posit an alternative hypothesis:  The laws of nature have been suspended, i.e., a miracle has occurred.  He can then compare the data to his alternative hypothesis and find that it has been confirmed.

Some read my comments in the “Mirror” thread and concluded that I believe science cannot take account of miracles.  I never said this.  In fact, I said exactly the opposite when I wrote the following in response to one of Mr. Murray’s comments: “Certainly a scientist can “take account” of a miracle in the sense of saying “this is beyond the ken of known natural causes” with respect to any given event.  A scientific theory cannot, however, be predicated on the occurrence of miracles, because they are, by definition, unpredictable. That was all I was saying. It is illustrated nicely by the following:  http://www.sciencecartoonsplus.com/pages/gallery.php “

Comments
Gil is correct. The laws of the universe, or more precisely, the regularity that they symbolize, cannot be their own cause. Among other things, they are fixed in their nature and do not have the flexibility to perform a creative act. They must do what they do and nothing else. Logic dictates that they must be the direct or indirect effects of a first cause (law/lawgiver). If one should object to the notion that the first cause is "contrary to" these physical laws, then just substitute the words "prior to" or "distinct from." Granted, from an ID scientific perspective, a designer, could, in principle, be material, but that is only because science, given its limitations, cannot speak to the metaphysical realities. Science is powerless to pass judgment on the texture of antecedent causes using inductive logic and, for that reason, cannot rule anything out. On the other hand, philosophy, using the principles of deductive reasoning can easily establish the fact that the first cause must be immaterial and personal, which means that a creative act that issues forth from that first cause would obviously be a miracle by any reasonable definition.StephenB
October 18, 2011
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Scott, those aren't exactly functional hypotheses. Its pretty easy to draw comparisons when you leave out all the details. Know what HUGE detail you left out? Intelligent. I think I study design in nature. I do it with methodological naturalism. I think (and demonstrate at times) that these designs are the result of natural processes. Pretty much what every scientist does. But you left out the INTELLIGENT part. Curious omission. If we superimposed that on the first statement, we'd get: Hi, I’ve inferred a cause that I am unable to directly observe. It’s called dark matter. I can’t tell you one thing about it, but I'm sure it has an Intelligent origin. See the devil in the details? Can you tell what tacking "Intelligent" on gained anyone? "Educated people who can read still think that ID is creationism. Is that accident?" No, I think it is historical. It is fairly undeniable that ID the public knows emerged as a new creationism. This is why politicians, teachers, etc. still refer to "intelligent design creationism." *Phillip Johnson: "Our strategy has been to change the subject a bit so that we can get the issue of Intelligent Design, which really means the reality of God, before the academic world and into the schools." Johnson 2004 "cdesign proponentsists". Etc etc.....DrREC
October 18, 2011
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DrREC, You are missing the point.
The limit isn’t arbitrary, and it is accepted by many people of diverse ideologies.
How is it not arbitrary, if one theory is considered within the limit and another outside of it on purely ideological grounds? The limitation is not the problem. The problem is that it can be applied inappropriately, like pulling someone over in a 55mph zone when they were going 50 because the officer doesn't like the way they look or disagrees with their bumper sticker. The supposed violation of methodological naturalism is cited capriciously. In the guise of protecting science from sorcery it is used to censor ideas that some find personally distasteful and protect others from valid questioning. You're asking, what is the problem with the 55MPH limit if you're driving 45? I'm answering, none, but why did I get pulled over?ScottAndrews
October 18, 2011
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DrREC, I'll tell you exactly what's being limited. Statement: Hi, I've inferred a cause that I am unable to directly observe. It's called dark matter. I can't tell you one thing about it, but it seems logical that we should take a closer look. Response: Of course. Good scientist. Here's your funding. We look forward to your research. Statement: Hi, I've inferred a cause that I am unable to directly observe. It's called design, in the context of biology. I can't tell you one thing about it, but it seems logical that we should take a closer look. Response: That throws a big red flag. Science can't examine what it cannot observe directly. Although your premise doesn't mention anything supernatural or miraculous, we've decided to place it in that category anyway, outside the boundaries of proper science. A dark cloud shall follow you hereafter for attempting to sneak in religion and bring back the dark ages. Educated people who can read still think that ID is creationism. Is that accident? The open-minded pursuit of knowledge, that is what is being limited. No big deal, right?ScottAndrews
October 18, 2011
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"If you’re comfortable with arbitrarily and ideologically limiting scientific inquiry" The limit isn't arbitrary, and it is accepted by many people of diverse ideologies. No one can tell me a SINGLE DISCOVERY, or even a coherent hypothesis and experiment in a framework that explicitly rejects methodological naturalism. So what is it I'm limiting? "you don’t consider it important enough to protect ideas from censorship" I'm the one defending HIV research from censorship in your absurd scenario.DrREC
October 18, 2011
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DrREC, It's not weak at all. If you're comfortable with arbitrarily and ideologically limiting scientific inquiry, then you must accept the consequence that until that fog has lifted, there are certain things we cannot be permitted to know. Then I ask you to look at past scientific discoveries and ask whether you would object to their having been prevented based on the same type of censorship. Your reply is telling. When it's "real" science, like investigating diseases, you would consider that extreme. But the origin of life and of species is a sandbox where research has much less immediate impact. And in this case either you don't consider it important enough to protect ideas from censorship or you're just content that it's your worldview being defended.ScottAndrews
October 18, 2011
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How so? If the designer in ID is natural, as Barry suggests, ID can adhere to methodological naturalism. And no one seems able to come up with a method of doing non-methodologically naturalist science, or a single example of a research program that rejected methodological naturalism and had success. So what is being limited?DrREC
October 18, 2011
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Because it is unnecessarily limiting.Joseph
October 18, 2011
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"ID is perfectly comfortable assuming a natural designer." Is usually the response I get when I start asking what non-methodologically naturalist science is. Fine, but it seems at odds with the rants against methodological naturalism, such as the topics here: https://uncommondescent.com/faq/#scivsup 17,18,19 for example If ID is methodologically naturalist, why rail against methodological naturalism?DrREC
October 18, 2011
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Resorting to extreme hypotheticals, in which the problem (HIV denialism) seemingly contradicts the question at hand (methodological naturalism/scientific method/respect of empirical data) is pretty weak.DrREC
October 18, 2011
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DrREC, what does your question have to do with the topics discussed on this site? ID is perfectly comfortable assuming a natural designer.Barry Arrington
October 18, 2011
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DrREC, I'll go out on a limb and say none. A better question is, what outstanding scientific discoveries of the last 50 years would not have been made if the research were arbitrarily decreed to be outside of methodological naturalism? There are nut jobs who claim HIV didn't cause AIDS. What if it caught on and suddenly researching HIV or even mentioning the connection was career suicide? Granted, this isn't a case of life and death. But it is de facto censorship because ideas are filtered through ideology and then both arbitrarily and selectively said to violate principles of science.ScottAndrews
October 18, 2011
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I didn't see an answer to my question, so I'll repeat it: "What outstanding scientific discovery has been made in the last 50 years by a research program that explicitly rejects methodological naturalism?" I'm especially curious as to the non-naturalist hypothesis and methodology.DrREC
October 18, 2011
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Mr. Murray is correct. "Law" is shorthand for forces acting in a lawlike way; "Chance" is shorthand for forces acting randomly.Barry Arrington
October 18, 2011
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The birth of the universe is contrary to the established laws of nature (matter, energy, chemistry, Newton’s laws, etc.) because these laws are not capable of creating a universe.
How is it logical to say that the establishment of a law is contrary to that law? Anyway, never mind! I just don't think that "miracle" is a terribly appropriate word for the creation of the laws of nature if we are going to define it as a violation/suspension of the laws of nature! However where I think you have a good point is in your implication that if the laws of nature themselves are created by a divine creator, that all of nature is miraculous. But then we don't need a specific word. That's why I suggest that the distinction should be between events where God directly acts creatively within the universe and events that are the consequent working out of previous creative acts. In that context, human free will can be seen as a direct creative act of God - the suspension of causality within the human being to create space for free choice - a true miracle. As my favorite theologian used to say (paraphrasing): we are never so free as when we are subject to the direct creative action of God's will. (Herbert McCabe). Sometimes I miss theology :)Elizabeth Liddle
October 18, 2011
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Maybe the laws of nature did exist prior to nature? Maybe nature is a consequence of 'laws'. Really we just have observations, no explanation.butifnot
October 18, 2011
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An explanation, The explanation, must account, must explain everything including the 'cause' as well as the description. We have 'explained' very little. We know no cause of the 'fundamental laws' we have observation and description. If a miracle is contradictory to natural law, is something merely independent of natural law 'supernatural'? Then everything ever made by a person is supernatural. As the materials, the atoms even, lay embedded in the earth, no law or force acting has anything to do with causing them to become arranged into say a music box. Total description of every particle will not allow prediction of their future description. Now if the chemistry going on in a 'neural cascade' happening in a brain is accounted for...butifnot
October 18, 2011
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The birth of the universe is contrary to the established laws of nature (matter, energy, chemistry, Newton's laws, etc.) because these laws are not capable of creating a universe.GilDodgen
October 18, 2011
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Sorry, somehow I got logged in under the wrong name. Meleagar = William J Murray.William J Murray
October 18, 2011
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I think saying that chance and natural law cause things is a shorthand way of saying that chance and natural law (necessity) describe the cause & effect relationships of events. It is the ID position that a third description - intention - is necessary to account not just for the gaps that those descriptions leave, but because, unlike chance and natural law, we regularly experience intention as a causal factor in generating the effects known to be unaccounted for by chance and natural law. It is interesting that the only descriptive commodity that we actually experience directly - intention - is the one that physicalists deny is necessary, or even exists as its own independent category. The other two descriptive categories are arrived at by noting their variance from intention, and from each other.Meleagar
October 18, 2011
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Got it- but if nature could not have produced those laws, what does that mean?Joseph
October 18, 2011
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I mean, "both are reliably predictable and **not** immutable".Meleagar
October 18, 2011
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Gil asks: "This is simple reason and logic. How can this not be obvious?" Here is why I think it is fallacious. Gil's argument can be written thus, I think: P1: a miracle is an event that is contrary to the established laws of nature, P2: the established laws of nature did not exist “before” nature (time included) came into existence C: therefore the origin of the universe [i.e. the origin of nature] is a miracle. OK? But how can an event that occurred "before" there were natural laws be "contrary" to them? To defy the law of gravity there has to a law of gravity to defy! To defy a predictive rule, there has to be a rule whose prediction fails! Thus, unlike, for example, a miraculous levitation, which violates the law of gravity, the creation of the natural laws can violate none at all, because there are none to violate. So the creation of nature, with its laws, cannot be said to be "contrary" to those laws, and thus cannot be said to be miraculous (although it could well be said to be something else, e.g. Divine). But then, presumably, if you believe in God the Creator, all events are Divine in origin. So why single out miracles?Elizabeth Liddle
October 18, 2011
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It doesn't matter if it is circular (you haven't shown it to be). Gil asked "How can this not be obvious?"Joseph
October 18, 2011
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No, it means your grandson’s behavior can be modeled in a statistically significant way, which is what behavioral scientists do every day.
That sounds like another way of saying that my grandson's behavior is predictable. Since neither phenomena guided by natural law or whatever is guiding my grandson's behavior is 100% predictable, but both are reliably predictable or immutable, then by your own claim, they must both be caused by natural law. Which I disagree with; free will, IMO, is a supernatural agency, and it is as predictable as many things which are described by reference to natural law.William J Murray
October 18, 2011
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Because it's circular, Gil :)Elizabeth Liddle
October 18, 2011
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I disagree with Aristotle :) I don't think "Chance" is an "cause" at all. Nor, in fact is "Natural law" if the law in question is considered "fundamental". And a fundamental law is one with no more fundamental "cause" (unless you count God).Elizabeth Liddle
October 18, 2011
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Gil: "How can this not be obvious?" It's the elephant in the room. The beginning, (t=0), as identified by the equations of relativity and evidenced by cosmic microwave background radiation is the singularity event that brought the laws of nature into existence. Therefore the singularity event was outside nature, by definition, a supernatural creation event. It follows that a creation event would logically support a creator, rather than ~creator.junkdnaforlife
October 18, 2011
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I think it does follow, William, but I'd do it this way: Rather than defining the supernatural as simply as events that are "contrary to the laws of nature" I'd first define "the laws of nature" as laws - regularities- that allow us to predict events. That is all they are. They are not "explanations" - a law is not a theory, it's an observed regularity - a heuristic that allows us to predict that "if this, then that". That means that if a "miracle" is predictable, it is no longer contrary to the laws of nature; what we have instead is the discovery of a new law, for example "if you pray for x in manner y, x will occur". We may have no idea why this law exists, but then we have no idea why any of the fundamental laws of nature exist. That's why they are "fundamental"! They are not derived from more fundamental laws. This is why I think why attempting to assign regularities to nature and irregularities to the "supernatural" is ultimately incoherent. If you believe in a creator God, then the distinction should not be between "natural" and "supernatural" but between "lawlike" and "arbitrary". It may well be that when God created the universe God left open a port for tinkering with the program in ways that would defy any attempts by his/her Creation's denizens to predict the universe's behaviour. In which case, as Barry says, those events might fall into a different category as being "contrary to the laws of nature" - but not because they are divine and other events aren't, but because they are events when God intervenes directly. In which case, by definition, they are outside the domain of science to explain, or even predict them. And because science is necessarily always incomplete, we cannot even infer an irregularity from our lack of an existing known law to cover it. We cannot - and must not - rule out the possibility that we have merely come across the workings of a hitherto undiscovered natural law. It is not anti-theistic to do so. Indeed, I'd argue theologically (heh) that it is much better monotheistic theology to ascribe all events to God, and merely distinguish between those that result from the workings out of the laws embedded in God's creation from the beginning, and those (if there are any) that result from some kind of direct bypassing of those laws.Elizabeth Liddle
October 18, 2011
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"At this point the scientist can either throw up his hands or posit an alternative hypothesis: The laws of nature have been suspended, i.e., a miracle has occurred." By that definition, the possible breaking of c as recorded by CERN (assuming there was no error and it stands that the suspension of c can not be reproduced), would be (by the above definition), a miracle. And as we speak, prominent physicists all over the globe are studying (as it stands now) a "suspension of natural law". Science studies what it studies, and the "science does not study miracles" is a materialist strawman. Rather, science does not determine what is considered a miracle. That is a theological/philosophical question to be addressed in a theological context. Science simply studies phenomenon in the universe, it does not assign meaning. Thus, if the breaking of c holds error free and is not reproduced, in a theological context, there would be no basis to consider a miracle occurred. Contrasted with the phenomenon of the Shroud of Turin, whereas in a theological context, there would be grounds to consider a miracle had occurred. However, in all cases, consideration of these events in a scientific context could only lead to a shrug and an astrisk.junkdnaforlife
October 17, 2011
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