13 Replies to “Steve Meyer: What is intelligent design?

  1. 1
    bornagain77 says:

    Dr. Meyer also mentioned that Dr. Dembski and Dr. Gordon were at that conference. But I could not find their lectures listed. Does anyone know if the videos are available somewhere?

  2. 2
    nightlight says:

    Meyer hasn’t advanced his story one millimeter for decades, replaying the same old, worn out theory. The real ID theory will be recognized by the new blossoms every year.

    Meyer’s core problem is that his “intelligent designer” is transcendental, perfect deity, which shortcircuits any development beyond that point, it is the end of his story (analogous to neo-Darwinian “randomness” also short-circuiting further inquiery). Without a scientific (falsifiable, empirically backed) hypothesis about the embodiment and implementation of the intelligence behind cellular nano machines and biological evolution, his version of ID is going to remain sterile.

  3. 3
    ET says:

    Wow. ID is not about the designer. ID is about the DESIGN. The DESIGN exists in the physical world and can be studied. And in the absence of designer input or direct observation the only possible way to scientifically answer any questions about the who and how is by FIRST determining intelligent design exists and then studying it and all relevant evidence.

    The science of ID is in the detection and study of intelligent designs in nature. There is plenty to study, so ID is far from sterile.

  4. 4
    bornagain77 says:

    Perhaps Nightlight should have actually watched the video, instead of his strawman version of it, to see what Dr. Meyer actually stated?

    I recommend the 46:00 to 58:00 minute mark for him. Particularly this quote,,,

    “This is not a deduction from religious authority. It is an inference from biological evidence, (an inference) that happens to provide support for a Theological proposition.” – 56:50 minute mark
    – Steve Meyer: What Is Intelligent Design?
    https://youtu.be/tu93Mw4mtec?t=2763

    And exactly what “Theological proposition” does the information in life happen to provide support for? Well, the following verse comes to mind,,,

    John 1:1-4
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

    Perhaps Nightlight would also like to criticize Anton Zeilinger, (one of the world’s leading experimentalists in quantum mechanics), for stating that the findings of Quantum Mechanics support Christian propositions?

    Why the Quantum? It from Bit? A Participatory Universe?
    Excerpt: “In conclusion, it may very well be said that information is the irreducible kernel from which everything else flows. Thence the question why nature appears quantized is simply a consequence of the fact that information itself is quantized by necessity. It might even be fair to observe that the concept that information is fundamental is very old knowledge of humanity, witness for example the beginning of gospel according to John: “In the beginning was the Word.”
    Anton Zeilinger – a leading expert in quantum mechanics
    http://www.metanexus.net/archi.....linger.pdf

    48:24 mark: “It is operationally impossible to separate Reality and Information”
    49:45 mark: “In the Beginning was the Word” John 1:1
    Prof Anton Zeilinger speaks on quantum physics. at UCT – video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ZPWW5NOrw

    49:28 mark: “This is now my personal opinion OK. Because we cannot operationally separate the two. Whenever we talk about reality, we think about reality, we are really handling information. The two are not separable. So maybe now, this is speculative here, maybe the two are the same? Or maybe information constitutive to the universe. This reminds me of the beginning the bible of St. John which starts with “In the Beginning was the Word”.,,,
    https://youtu.be/s3ZPWW5NOrw?t=2969

    constitutive
    1. having the power to establish or give organized existence to something.

  5. 5
    nightlight says:

    I have watched the video, while skipping over the old stories I already heard before from him, and didn’t notice anything new. The Seattle ID “theory” is scientifically sterile i.e. it is not a science.

    The kind of fruitful theories that will replace neo-Darwinism will be extensions of Natural Genetic Engineering by Shapiro or similar ideas, where intelligence, which is always active, comes from inside the nature, and not via Meyer’s capricious external interventions by transcendental being helping out the “nature” every now and then, when it gets stuck.

  6. 6
    PeterA says:

    Nightlight,
    BA77 raised a valid point @4.
    Sorry to disappoint you, but the 3rd Way daydreamed extensions are just wishful thinking at best. They are doomed to the same fate that the neo-Darwinian ideas had. Completely discredited for MACRO-evo, even by the 3rd Way folks themselves, who desperately try to puff up very modest results in order to rescue the outdated 19th century MACRO-evo ideas. Eventually they will come up with the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th ways in search of the magic solution to no avail.

    The key thing is the explanation of the origin of the complex functional information observed in the biological systems.

    The best empirical explanation for the origin of the functional complexity of the observed complex functionality in biology is intelligent purposefully meaningful design by a conscious agent. Anything else is speculative cheap chat.

    “Have they never heard the phrase non sequitur? As strange as it may seem to people outside the charmed circle, many Darwinian biologists find it difficult to distinguish the question of what occurred in biology from the question of how it occurred.” —Dr Michael Behe (Cited here)

  7. 7
    bornagain77 says:

    Nightlight states

    The Seattle ID “theory” is scientifically sterile i.e. it is not a science.
    The kind of fruitful theories that will replace neo-Darwinism will be extensions of Natural Genetic Engineering by Shapiro or similar ideas, where intelligence, which is always active, comes from inside the nature, and not via Meyer’s capricious external interventions by transcendental being helping out the “nature” every now and then, when it gets stuck.

    What a confused bit of hogwash. First off, science itself is based on, and finds its origins in, Christian Theism, not in any other worldview.

    As Calvin Beisner points out in the following article, “science—not an occasional flash of insight here and there, but a systematic, programmatic, ongoing way of studying and controlling the world—arose only once in history, and only in one place: medieval Europe, once known as “Christendom,” where that Biblical worldview reigned supreme.” And that modern science arose precisely because Christians believe, “a personal, rational God designed a rational universe to be understood and controlled by rational persons made in His image.”

    The Threat to the Scientific Method that Explains the Spate of Fraudulent Science Publications – Calvin Beisner | Jul 23, 2014
    Excerpt: It is precisely because modern science has abandoned its foundations in the Biblical worldview (which holds, among other things, that a personal, rational God designed a rational universe to be understood and controlled by rational persons made in His image) and the Biblical ethic (which holds, among other things, that we are obligated to tell the truth even when it inconveniences us) that science is collapsing.
    As such diverse historians and philosophers of science as Alfred North Whitehead, Pierre Duhem, Loren Eiseley, Rodney Stark, and many others have observed,, science—not an occasional flash of insight here and there, but a systematic, programmatic, ongoing way of studying and controlling the world—arose only once in history, and only in one place: medieval Europe, once known as “Christendom,” where that Biblical worldview reigned supreme. That is no accident. Science could not have arisen without that worldview.
    http://townhall.com/columnists...../page/full
    Several other resources backing up this claim are available, such as Thomas Woods, Stanley Jaki, David Linberg, Edward Grant, J.L. Heilbron, and Christopher Dawson.

    And as was pointed out in the following article, “Real science arose only once: in Europe”—in Christian Europe. “China, Islam, India, and ancient Greece and Rome each had a highly developed alchemy. But only in Europe did alchemy develop into chemistry. By the same token, many societies developed elaborate systems of astrology, but only in Europe did astrology develop into astronomy.”,,,

    The Christian Origins of Science – Jack Kerwick – Apr 15, 2017
    Excerpt: Though it will doubtless come as an enormous shock to such Christophobic atheists as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and their ilk, it is nonetheless true that one especially significant contribution that Christianity made to the world is that of science.,,,
    Stark is blunt: “Real science arose only once: in Europe”—in Christian Europe. “China, Islam, India, and ancient Greece and Rome each had a highly developed alchemy. But only in Europe did alchemy develop into chemistry. By the same token, many societies developed elaborate systems of astrology, but only in Europe did astrology develop into astronomy.”,,,
    In summation, Stark writes: “The rise of science was not an extension of classical learning. It was the natural outgrowth of Christian doctrine: nature exists because it was created by God. In order to love and honor God, it is necessary to fully appreciate the wonders of his handiwork. Because God is perfect, his handiwork functions in accord with immutable principles. By the full use of our God-given powers of reason and observation, it ought to be possible to discover these principles.”
    He concludes: “These were the crucial ideas that explain why science arose in Christian Europe and nowhere else.”
    https://townhall.com/columnists/jackkerwick/2017/04/15/the-christian-origins-of-science-n2313593

    And as Dr. Michael Egnor points out in the following article, “The scientific method — the empirical systematic theory-based study of nature — has nothing to so with some religious inspirations — Animism, Paganism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Islam, and, well, atheism. The scientific method has everything to do with Christian (and Jewish) inspiration. Judeo-Christian culture is the only culture that has given rise to organized theoretical science.”

    Jerry Coyne on the Scientific Method and Religion – Michael Egnor – June 2011
    Excerpt: The scientific method — the empirical systematic theory-based study of nature — has nothing to so with some religious inspirations — Animism, Paganism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Islam, and, well, atheism. The scientific method has everything to do with Christian (and Jewish) inspiration. Judeo-Christian culture is the only culture that has given rise to organized theoretical science. Many cultures (e.g. China) have produced excellent technology and engineering, but only Christian culture has given rise to a conceptual understanding of nature.
    http://www.evolutionnews.org/2.....47431.html

    And as Professor Koons points out in the following article, “Far from undermining the credibility of theism, the remarkable success of science in modern times is a remarkable confirmation of the truth of theism. It was from the perspective of Judeo-Christian theism—and from the perspective alone—that it was predictable that science would have succeeded as it has.”

    Science and Theism: Concord, not Conflict* – Robert C. Koons
    IV. The Dependency of Science Upon Theism (Page 21)
    Excerpt: Far from undermining the credibility of theism, the remarkable success of science in modern times is a remarkable confirmation of the truth of theism. It was from the perspective of Judeo-Christian theism—and from the perspective alone—that it was predictable that science would have succeeded as it has. Without the faith in the rational intelligibility of the world and the divine vocation of human beings to master it, modern science would never have been possible, and, even today, the continued rationality of the enterprise of science depends on convictions that can be reasonably grounded only in theistic metaphysics.
    http://www.robkoons.net/media/.....ffd524.pdf

    And as the following article points out, “That the universe had an Intelligent Designer is the most fundamental of all scientific theories and that it has been successfully put to empirical tests again and again.”

    No False Gods Before Me: A Review of Rodney Stark’s Work by Terry Scambray (December 2018)
    Excerpt: As Stark writes, “Not only were science and religion compatible, they were inseparable—the rise of science was achieved by deeply religious, Christian scholars.”,,,
    So Christianity, then and now, never was antithetical to science. And this is because European Christians believed in a rational God whose imprint could be discovered in nature; thus, they confidently looked for and found natural laws. As Johannes Kepler, the venerable 17th century cosmologist, wrote, “The chief aim of all investigations of the external world” is to discover this harmony imposed by God in the language of mathematics.
    Stark concludes, “That the universe had an Intelligent Designer is the most fundamental of all scientific theories and that it has been successfully put to empirical tests again and again. For, as Albert Einstein remarked, the most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible” which Einstein called a “miracle.” And this “miracle” confirms the fact that creation is guided by purpose and reason.
    https://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=189497&sec_id=189497

    Besides modern science, Christianity also gave rise to Hospitals, Universities, The abolition of slavery, Representative government, and many other blessings.

    21 Positive Contributions Christianity Has Made Through the Centuries By D. James Kennedy (excerpted from “What if Jesus Had Never Been Born?”)
    (1) Hospitals, which essentially began during the Middle Ages.
    (2) Universities, which also began during the Middle Ages. In addition, most of the world’s greatest universities were started for Christian purposes.
    (3) Literacy and education for the masses.
    (4) Capitalism and free enterprise.
    (5) Representative government, particularly as it has been seen in the American experiment.
    (6) The separation of political powers.
    (7) Civil liberties.
    (8) The abolition of slavery, both in antiquity and in more modern times.
    (9) Modern science.
    (10) The discovery of the New World by Columbus.
    (11) The elevation of women.
    (12) Benevolence and charity; the good Samaritan ethic.
    (13) Higher standards of justice.
    (14) The elevation of common man.
    (15) The condemnation of adultery, homosexuality, and other sexual perversions. This has helped to preserve the human race, and it has spared many from heartache.
    (16) High regard for human life.
    (17) The civilizing of many barbarian and primitive cultures.
    (18) The codifying and setting to writing of many of the world’s languages.
    (19) Greater development of art and music. The inspiration for the greatest works of art.
    (20) The countless changed lives transformed from liabilities into assets to society because of the gospel.
    (21) The eternal salvation of countless souls.
    https://verticallivingministries.com/tag/benefits-of-christianity-to-society/

    Thus Christianity itself has been very fruitful for the world and certainly has not been sterile. In fact, all the fruit of modern science itself owes its very existence to the ‘tree of Christianity’.

    “Of all signs there is none more certain or worthy than that of the fruits produced: for the fruits and effects are the sureties and vouchers, as it were, for the truth of philosophy”
    Francis Bacon – widely regarded as the founder of the scientific method,, a devout Anglican Christian

    Matthew 7:17-19
    A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire.

    Nightlight claims that biological ID, i.e. assuming the Intelligent Design of biology in particular, is sterile and is not a fruitful scientific theory. Again, that claim is a confused bit of hogwash on Nightlight’s part. Intelligent Design, far from hindering science, is found to be a ‘driver of science’:

    “It has become clear in the past ten years that the concept of design is not merely an add-on meta-description of biological systems, of no scientific consequence, but is in fact a driver of science. A whole cohort of young scientists is being trained to “think like engineers” when looking at biological systems, using terms explicitly related to engineering design concepts: design, purpose, optimal tradeoffs for multiple goals, information, control, decision making, etc. This approach is widely seen as a successful, predictive, quantitative theory of biology.”
    Systems Biology as a Research Program for Intelligent Design – David Snoke – 2014
    http://bio-complexity.org/ojs/.....O-C.2014.3

    Dr. Stephen Meyer, at the 38:00 minute mark of the following recent video, gives several examples where ID presuppositions are pushing science forward and fostering breakthroughs. (James Tour research on targeting cancer cells, via biomimetics, is particularly interesting)

    Intelligent Design 3.0 by Stephen C. Meyer
    https://youtu.be/dvwBaD8-00w?t=2277

    Nightlight shuns Darwinism, which is all fine and well since Darwinism has hindered scientific research with its predictions of junk DNA and vestigial organs, (not to mention Darwinian implications being a catastrophe for societies at large, i.e. Nazis, Communists etc..), but Nightlight also falsely claims that Natural Genetic Engineering, where ” intelligence, which is always active, comes from inside the nature” will be the fruitful theory that replaces Darwinism.

    That claim simply is not true. ID, and Christianity in particular, certainly does not claim that God is not always active.

    Acts 17:28
    ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.

  8. 8
    bornagain77 says:

    The claim that God is not always active is Nightlight’s own strawman version of Christianity and of ID in particular. ID, as a scientific theory, merely claims that the information found in life is best explained by Intelligence, not by natural processes, and does not claim anything about exactly when the Intelligence was active. Moreover, the claim from Nightlight that the intelligence that is creating biological information ‘comes from inside of nature’ is simply false.

    At about the 41:00 minute mark of the following video, Dr. Wells, using a branch of mathematics called category theory, demonstrates that, during embryological development, information must somehow be added to the developing embryo, ‘from the outside’, by some ‘non-material’ method.

    Design Beyond DNA: A Conversation with Dr. Jonathan Wells – video (41:00 minute mark) – January 2017
    https://youtu.be/ASAaANVBoiE?t=2484

    The following article adds weight to Dr Wells assessment and states: “the process of development should be thought of as being controlled by an “algebraic structure outside space-time itself”

    Intelligent Design and the Advancement of Science – Brian Miller – December 11, 2017
    Excerpt: DNA was expected to be the primary source of causality behind the operation and development of life. Such beliefs have previously raised concerns from leading scientists and mathematicians. For instance, physicist Walter Elsasser argued that the unfathomable complexity of the chemical and physically processes in life was “transcomputational” — beyond the realm of any theoretical means of computation. Moreover, the development of the embryo is not solely directed by DNA. Instead, it requires new “biotonic” principles. As a result, life cannot be reduced to chemistry and physics. An unbridgeable gap separates life from non-life.
    Similarly, mathematician René Thom argued that the 3D patterns of tissues in an organism’s development from egg to birth and their continuous transformation cannot be understood in terms of isolating the individual proteins generated by DNA and other molecules produced in cells. The problem is that the individual “parts” composing tissues and organs only take on the right form and function in the environment of those tissues and organs. More recent work by Denis Noble further has elucidated how every level of the biological hierarchy affects every other level, from DNA to tissues to the entire organism. Based partly on these insights, Thom concluded in his book Structural Stability and Morphogenesis that the process of development should be thought of as being controlled by an “algebraic structure outside space-time itself” (p. 119). Likewise, Robert Rosen argued that life can only be understood as a mathematical abstraction consisting of functional relationships, irreducible to mechanistic processes. He observed that life is fundamentally different from simple physics and chemistry. It embodies the Aristotelian category of final causation, which is closely related to the idea of purpose. The conclusions of these scholars challenge materialistic philosophy at its core.
    https://evolutionnews.org/2017/12/intelligent-design-and-the-advancement-of-science/

    To provide further evidence for information coming into the developing embryo from ‘outside space-time itself’, it is also important to note that ‘non-local’ quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,,,

    Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory – 29 October 2012
    Excerpt: “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,”
    http://www.quantumlah.org/high.....uences.php

    And these quantum correlations which somehow arise from outside spacetime, are now found in molecular biology on a massive scale. In every DNA and Protein molecule,,,

    “What happens is this classical information (of DNA) is embedded, sandwiched, into the quantum information (of DNA). And most likely this classical information is never accessed because it is inside all the quantum information. You can only access the quantum information or the electron clouds and the protons. So mathematically you can describe that as a quantum/classical state.”
    Elisabeth Rieper – Classical and Quantum Information in DNA – video (Longitudinal Quantum Information resides along the entire length of DNA discussed at the 19:30 minute mark; at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper remarks that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it)
    https://youtu.be/2nqHOnVTxJE?t=1176

    Classical and Quantum Information Channels in Protein Chain – Dj. Koruga, A. Tomi?, Z. Ratkaj, L. Matija – 2006
    Abstract: Investigation of the properties of peptide plane in protein chain from both classical and quantum approach is presented. We calculated interatomic force constants for peptide plane and hydrogen bonds between peptide planes in protein chain. On the basis of force constants, displacements of each atom in peptide plane, and time of action we found that the value of the peptide plane action is close to the Planck constant. This indicates that peptide plane from the energy viewpoint possesses synergetic classical/quantum properties. Consideration of peptide planes in protein chain from information viewpoint also shows that protein chain possesses classical and quantum properties. So, it appears that protein chain behaves as a triple dual system: (1) structural – amino acids and peptide planes, (2) energy – classical and quantum state, and (3) information – classical and quantum coding. Based on experimental facts of protein chain, we proposed from the structure-energy-information viewpoint its synergetic code system.
    http://www.scientific.net/MSF.518.491

    Quantum criticality in a wide range of important biomolecules – Mar. 6, 2015
    Excerpt: “Most of the molecules taking part actively in biochemical processes are tuned exactly to the transition point and are critical conductors,” they say.
    That’s a discovery that is as important as it is unexpected. “These findings suggest an entirely new and universal mechanism of conductance in biology very different from the one used in electrical circuits.”
    The permutations of possible energy levels of biomolecules is huge so the possibility of finding even one (biomolecule) that is in the quantum critical state by accident is mind-bogglingly small and, to all intents and purposes, impossible.,, of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,”,,,
    “what exactly is the advantage that criticality confers?”
    https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/the-origin-of-life-and-the-hidden-role-of-quantum-criticality-ca4707924552

    Moreover, the following article points out that the unresolved enigma of protein folding, that is to say, the unresolved enigma for how a protein might achieve its basic 3-dimensional form, can be easily explained if the process of folding is a quantum affair.

    Physicists Discover Quantum Law of Protein Folding – February 22, 2011
    Quantum mechanics finally explains why protein folding depends on temperature in such a strange way.
    Excerpt: First, a little background on protein folding. Proteins are long chains of amino acids that become biologically active only when they fold into specific, highly complex shapes. The puzzle is how proteins do this so quickly when they have so many possible configurations to choose from.
    To put this in perspective, a relatively small protein of only 100 amino acids can take some 10^100 different configurations. If it tried these shapes at the rate of 100 billion a second, it would take longer than the age of the universe to find the correct one. Just how these molecules do the job in nanoseconds, nobody knows.,,,
    Today, Luo and Lo say these curves can be easily explained if the process of folding is a quantum affair. By conventional thinking, a chain of amino acids can only change from one shape to another by mechanically passing through various shapes in between.
    But Luo and Lo say that if this process were a quantum one, the shape could change by quantum transition, meaning that the protein could ‘jump’ from one shape to another without necessarily forming the shapes in between.,,,
    Their astonishing result is that this quantum transition model fits the folding curves of 15 different proteins and even explains the difference in folding and unfolding rates of the same proteins.
    That’s a significant breakthrough. Luo and Lo’s equations amount to the first universal laws of protein folding. That’s the equivalent in biology to something like the thermodynamic laws in physics.
    http://www.technologyreview.co.....f-protein/

    Besides quantum information providing direct empirical falsification of neo-Darwinian claims that say information is emergent from a material basis, as well as falsification of Nightlight’s claim that ‘intelligence,, comes from inside nature’, the implication of finding ‘non-local’, beyond space and time, and ‘conserved’, quantum information in molecular biology on such a massive scale, is fairly, and pleasantly, obvious.

    That pleasant implication, or course, being the fact that we now have direct physical evidence strongly indicating that we do indeed have an eternal soul that is capable of living beyond the death of our material bodies.
    As Stuart Hameroff notes in this following video, “the quantum information,, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed.,,, it’s possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”

    “Let’s say the heart stops beating. The blood stops flowing. The microtubules lose their quantum state. But the quantum information, which is in the microtubules, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed. It just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large. If a patient is resuscitated, revived, this quantum information can go back into the microtubules and the patient says, “I had a near death experience. I saw a white light. I saw a tunnel. I saw my dead relatives.,,” Now if they’re not revived and the patient dies, then it’s possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.”
    – Stuart Hameroff – Quantum Entangled Consciousness – Life After Death – video (5:00 minute mark)
    https://youtu.be/jjpEc98o_Oo?t=300

    Thus, Christianity, far from God being an aloof, capricious, tinkerer as Nightlight strawman caricature of God implied, and with these recent breakthroughs in quantum biology,,,

    Darwinian Materialism vs Quantum Biology – video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHdD2Am1g5Y

    ,,,Christianity is found to be very well supported in its claim that God has formed each of us in our mother’s womb. i.e Christianity is found to be, contrary to Nightlight’s strawman caricature, very well supported in its claim that God is always presently active in the world.

    Verses:

    Psalm 139:13-14
    For You formed my inward parts;
    You covered me in my mother’s womb.
    I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
    Marvelous are Your works,
    And that my soul knows very well.

    Jeremiah 1:5
    “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

  9. 9
    ET says:

    Nightlight clearly doesn’t understand ID and clearly doesn’t know what science entails. Intelligence cannot and does not come from inside of nature, unless nature is the mind of the intelligent designer.

  10. 10
    bornagain77 says:

    Excellent presentation by Dr. Doug Axe on evidence of design in nature.

    Dr. Doug Axe – Get a Grip Conference 2019
    https://www.facebook.com/apologetics.radio/videos/362388344346629/UzpfSTIwMTU1MDE5ODY1ODpWSzozNjIzODgzNDQzNDY2Mjk/

  11. 11
    ScuzzaMan says:

    Judeo-Christian culture is the only culture that has given rise to organized theoretical science

    For any person willing to deal honestly with the evidence (I pause here to nod morosely in memory of what the darwinists did to poor Stephen J Gould for daring to admit that the fossil record denies gradualism most emphatically) this is a slam dunk, but you’re dealing with people who pretend to themselves that the cry of “Coincidence!” is a philosophical get-out-of-jail-free card …

    By which I mean to advise, don’t hold your breath waiting for them to deal honestly with the evidence. Were they so willing we’d not be having this discussion; it simply would not be necessary.

  12. 12
    ScuzzaMan says:

    On the subject of Intelligent Design, it’s a bit like Christianity in this sense: it’s a big tent, capable of housing a great diversity of views.
    For example I’m an unashamed creationist, what once was termed a fundamentalist, while many IDers are believers in deep time, common descent with modification, mostly uniformitarian in their views on the physical sciences, and etc, with their primary dissent from modern scientific dogma being about the source of the information inherent in the modifications. Some of these latter IDers are also Christians of various sorts.
    I have no particular beef with them, preferring to speak of such matters with those who are interested rather than shouting at random strangers as they pass by.
    It’s just that as a creature I worship a creator not an engineer.

  13. 13
    EricMH says:

    My take on ID is that it means there must be other causal mechanisms besides chance and necessity. Namely, there must be causes that exhibit teleology. Intelligence is one, but there are other sorts of logically possible teleological causes. For example, the discarded idea of vitalism is one such cause, that there is some kind of ‘life force’ that guides creatures towards goals. Instinct is another such view. Aristotelian functionalism yet another. The medievals summarized this concept that love is what makes the universe go around, the notion is that teleology and love are the same thing.

    For a currently accepted form of teleology within science we have things like gravitation and magnetism. So, in that sense, the teleological aspect ID is already a well established scientific theory.

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