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The ID Hypothesis

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A friend writes and asks how ID comports with the “scientific method.” I respond:

As for the scientific method, I am all for it:

Question to be Investigated: What is the origin of complex specified information (CSI) and irreducibly complex (IC) mechanisms seen in even the simplest living things?

Hypothesis: CSI and IC have never been directly observed to have arisen though chance or mechanical necessity or a combination of the two. Conversely, CSI and IC are routinely observed to have been produced by intelligent agents. Moreover, intelligent agents leave behind indicia of their acts that can be objectively discerned. Therefore, using abductive reasoning, the best explanation for CSI and IC is “act of intelligent agent.”

The intelligent design project is, essentially, the scientific investigation of this hypothesis.

Interestingly, Darwinists make mutually exclusive attacks on the hypothesis. Some claim the hypothesis is not scientific because it cannot be, even in principle, falsified. Others claim the hypothesis fails because it has been falsified. Surely you will agree that it cannot be both.

The answer is that the hypothesis is, in principle, falsifiable.


All it would take is even one instance of CSI or IC being observed to arise through chance or mechanical necessity or a combination of the two. Such an observation would blow the ID project out of the water.

I have to add that typical Darwinist circular reasoning and “just so stories” will not do the trick. That is to say, reasoning of the following sort fails to impress: CSI arose though the combination of chance and mechanical necessity. How do you know this? Well, we inferred it from the data. And on what was your inference based? It was based on our a priori commitment to explanations based solely on chance and mechanical necessity through which all interpretations of the data must be filtered.

Comments
Scott Andrews: What commonality are you assuming between the the designer(s) and the designed? ------ Nothing. I am not in the game of making assumptions about the designer. I am just using Barry's line of reasoning, changing the asumptions in a way I thought no ID proponent could disagree with. But if I'm wrong, please correct me. Which of the premises in my version of the argument do you disagree with? Thanks. fGfaded_Glory
August 5, 2011
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So now I am stupid? For highlighting that there is a problem with either the assumptions or the reasoning in the paragraph I quoted? Is ID agnostic about the orgin of life? Or does it claim that the origin of life is Intelligent Design? If the latter, then what is wrong with my version of Barry's argument? Let's look a it again: 1. CSI and IC have never been directly observed to have arisen from non-living entities. Do you agree or not? 2. Conversely, CSI and IC are routinely observed to have been produced by living entities. Do you agree or not? 3. Moreover, living entities leave behind indicia of their acts that can be objectively discerned. Do you agree or not? 4. Therefore, using abductive reasoning, the best explanation for CSI and IC is “act of a living entity.” Do you think this is sound reasoning or not? Something has to be wrong here because this line of thinking leads to a logical absurdity: that the origin of life was alive itself. fGfaded_Glory
August 5, 2011
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Ergo, Life was designed by a living entity. Whoops
fg, you can't be that stupid.Mung
August 5, 2011
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dmullenix:
99% of the scientific world says that evolution generates CSI through mutation (which generates information) and natural selection (which weeds out the useless information). Do you disagree with this?
I absolutely disagree. 98% of the scientific world probably doesn't even know what CSI is.Mung
August 5, 2011
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Faded Glory, are you suggesting that Craig Ventor is not a living entity? Does his mother know?Barry Arrington
August 5, 2011
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Faded Glory, Ergo, Life was designed by a living entity. Whoops… Why is that a "whoops?" What commonality are you assuming between the the designer(s) and the designed?ScottAndrews
August 5, 2011
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But anyway ID does say that not all mutations are genetic accidents, meaning some, most and maybe all are directed and the designer need not be there, just as a programmer doesn't have to be present to run a program nor to do any auto spell checking. Read "Not By Chance" by Dr Lee Spetner.Joseph
August 5, 2011
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dmullenix:
So the scientific world has it all wrong?
All we have is your bald assertion about it. dmullenix:
CATGCATGCATG and you change it to CATGCATGCATT you haven’t generated new information?
What information? dmullenix:
That would be big news to science and to the information industry.
I am an information technologist and no one in my industry would confuse what you posted for information. But anyway YOU said something about CSI. Now you are mething called "new" information. Can you please keep your "argument" straight? Please focus on your original argument and stop back-peddling.Joseph
August 5, 2011
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So the scientific world has it all wrong? Are you saying that if you have CATGCATGCATG and you change it to CATGCATGCATT you haven't generated new information? That would be big news to science and to the information industry. Are you saying that when the DNA that generates the protein Apolipoprotein AI mutated to produce a variant called Apolipoprotein AIM which makes its possessor almost immune to heart attacks, that changed DNA didn't contain new information? Or are you saying that a Designer did the mutation? If so, what is your evidence for that?dmullenix
August 5, 2011
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dmullenix:
99% of the scientific world says that evolution generates CSI through mutation (which generates information) and natural selection (which weeds out the useless information).
Except there isn't any evidence for that. So that would be a problem. (and mutation does not generate information) Ya see every time we have observed CSI and knew the cause it has always been via agency involvement- always, 100% of the time.Joseph
August 5, 2011
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Barry: "All it would take is even one instance of CSI or IC being observed to arise through chance or mechanical necessity or a combination of the two. Such an observation would blow the ID project out of the water." No it wouldn't. ID could still be in operation in addition to evolution. That's basic theistic evolution: God set up the world to generate species mostly through evolution, but He adds a little design when it suites His purposes. Or in other words, God can make a cake by mixing flour, eggs, sugar, water, and the other ingredients together in a bowl and bake it in an oven. He doesn't have to manufacture every molecule from scratch and place it in its final position by hand. 99% of the scientific world says that evolution generates CSI through mutation (which generates information) and natural selection (which weeds out the useless information). Do you disagree with this? If intelligent design is the investigation of the generation of the CSI found in living organisms by an intelligent agent, could you give us some examples of people who are investigating this and some of their experiments? All the intelligent design research I've ever heard about, both theoretical and experimental, just tries to falsify evolution. If I was an alien and I saw Mount Rushmore, I would say it was designed because it looks like four human faces, which would be massivly improbable through chance alone, but rock doesn't reproduce so evolution couldn't have generated it.dmullenix
August 5, 2011
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“a false negative is possible initially without any prior knowledge of the designer” you left out "or geology." I'm assuming the same physics. A thorough examination of earths geology is all that alien should need to infer design as argument to best explanation for mt. rushmore, cave drawings or a washing machine in the woods.junkdnaforlife
August 5, 2011
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Well, Dr. Bot, perhaps we should have our aliens come across an abandoned washing machine in the woods. Could they infer design? Remember, they just landed a spacecraft.avocationist
August 4, 2011
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As for landing on another planet and seeing formations that may or may not be design, a false negative is possible initially without any prior knowledge of the alien race or geology of the planet. But after a thorough inspection of the geology of the planet and a little club hopping with the alien chicks, correctly inferring design as argument to best explanation for a particular feature would be commonplace. Just as after acquiring a reasonable understanding of Earths geology and a weekend bender in vegas would permit the alien to confidently infer design on this planet. Just as after the acquiring of a thorough understanding of chemistry and physics on planet earth has led many to infer design as argument to best explanation for the OOL phenomenon.
All these examples except the last require a direct observation of the designers in order to eliminate false positives. ID says nothing about the designer and doesn't require any knowledge of the designer in order to reliably infer design - or so we are told. Let me paraphrase you - "a false negative is possible initially without any prior knowledge of the designer"DrBot
August 4, 2011
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Actually, I think people go a little too far in assuming that an alien life form, one capable of building and piloting spacecraft, would have so little biological resemblance to earthly life forms as to find them unrecognizable.avocationist
August 4, 2011
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David: "I was recently driving through the black hills, and I was struct by a formation that looked amazingly like the Mt. Rushmore carvings." It is not the resemblance that is important, it is whether or not it can be produced by means of chance and necessity. This is similar to the cloud formation fallacy. Clouds can look like dragons and cats. And no one argues that these formations can be attributed to chance and necessity. But if you looked up and saw, "Marry me Theresa," written in cloud or smoke, you would infer an intelligent agent was the cause. As for landing on another planet and seeing formations that may or may not be design, a false negative is possible initially without any prior knowledge of the alien race or geology of the planet. But after a thorough inspection of the geology of the planet and a little club hopping with the alien chicks, correctly inferring design as argument to best explanation for a particular feature would be commonplace. Just as after acquiring a reasonable understanding of Earths geology and a weekend bender in vegas would permit the alien to confidently infer design on this planet. Just as after the acquiring of a thorough understanding of chemistry and physics on planet earth has led many to infer design as argument to best explanation for the OOL phenomenon. Back in the day, Darwin was exactly that earthling studying the formations on an alien planet: The cell. But Darwin didn't recognize much, so he shrugged his shoulders, got in his spaceship and flew away. Nothing to see here. A century later however, another team flew to the same planet, to the same spot Darwin examined, and put a microscope against the same formations and discovered the novel war and peace etched into the crust.junkdnaforlife
August 4, 2011
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Hypothesis: CSI and IC have never been directly observed to have arisen though chance or mechanical necessity or a combination of the two. Conversely, CSI and IC are routinely observed to have been produced by intelligent agents. Moreover, intelligent agents leave behind indicia of their acts that can be objectively discerned. Therefore, using abductive reasoning, the best explanation for CSI and IC is “act of intelligent agent.” ------------ Equally: Hypothesis: CSI and IC have never been directly observed to have arisen from non-living entities. Conversely, CSI and IC are routinely observed to have been produced by living entities. Moreover, living entities leave behind indicia of their acts that can be objectively discerned. Therefore, using abductive reasoning, the best explanation for CSI and IC is “act of a living entity.” Ergo, Life was designed by a living entity. Whoops... fGfaded_Glory
August 4, 2011
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We simply DO NOT KNOW whether there is “reason” to find alien portraits, because we lack any basis for comparison. If we’ve seen any aliens, we haven’t recognized them as such. No, we don't know. DrBot seemed to find fault with that uncertainty. I don't. Admitting limitations to what we know or think we know is good. (And it's not the same thing as declaring something "unknowable.")ScottAndrews
August 4, 2011
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Are you saying you have a problem with not inferring design when there is no reason to?
I think the crux of the issue is the "reason" in your question. We simply DO NOT KNOW whether there is "reason" to find alien portraits, because we lack any basis for comparison. If we've seen any aliens, we haven't recognized them as such. The only conclusions that are not tentative, are those we assume a priori. Tentative conclusions are always subject to change at any time. A priori conclusions are the Rock of Ages. So the question becomes, would we rather be absolutely certain, or would we rather be probably correct, but not completely, most of the time, depending, when the processes leading to either condition are mutually exclusive? I would love to be sure I'm right. I've achieved that condition many times in my life, and it's very pleasant. Of course, I've been wrong each time, and that's a bummer, but I would STILL prefer to be sure I'm right.David W. Gibson
August 4, 2011
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I wish I could reproduce photographs on this site. But I was recently driving through the black hills, and I was struct by a formation that looked amazingly like the Mt. Rushmore carvings. Granted, I couldn't find any human faces, but there was definitely a pattern to the rocks, and the overall presentation looked amazingly similar. If I were an alien, and totally unfamiliar with human faces, I probably would not consider either of them to be artificially carved, and equally improbable. I took a high resolution picture of that formation, and blew it up to 16x20 to hang on my wall. Nature can do amazing things. Or maybe it WAS carved by an alien?David W. Gibson
August 4, 2011
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DrBot, I have news for you all, the earth is littered with the portraits of aliens carved into rock, unfortunately because we have never seen the aliens first hand we keep mistaking them for natural formations and concocting naturalistic (or as KF would say the evolutionary materialist) just so stories to explain their presence. Are you saying you have a problem with not inferring design when there is no reason to? Why would that be bad? You reject design when it's a valid conclusion but expect it to be found when there's no basis for seeing it. It sounds like you're going to find fault no matter what.ScottAndrews
August 4, 2011
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Therefore, using abductive reasoning, the best explanation for CSI and IC is “act of intelligent agent.”
Actually, the above has a hidden bias - the assumption of a singular act by a singular agent. A more accurate version would read; "Therefore, using abductive reasoning, the best explanation for CSI and IC is “one or more acts by one more intelligent agents (in competition and/or cooperation)"rhampton7
August 4, 2011
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Here we demonstrate how [fill in the blank] ... evolved by a stepwise Darwinian process. They always forgot to mention step two in their rigorous, thoroughly scientific analysis. Darwinists believe in miracles. They just won't admit it.GilDodgen
August 4, 2011
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Elizabeth, You have a copy of Signature in the Cell, and last I heard you were reading it and had reached at least as far as Chapter 8. So why are you bugging Barry? SitC isn't about the origin of life?
On another thread there is an ongoing discussion on how to define “information” in such a way that its presence can be unambiguously determined in the produces of Chance and Necessity.
My my how differently things can look to two different people. We're not trying to define information. Information is what it is, or to put it another way, information is as information does. Elizabeth rather rashly claimed (months ago now) that Chance + Necessity sans Intelligence could generate Information. And she proposed to demonstrate this to be the case and to thereby demonstrate that a central claim of ID is false. Since then, it's been a constant struggle to get her to proceed with her falsification of ID. Her current excuse for not continuing is that she has not been able to "operationalize" the concept of information. IOW, she has no clue how to demonstrate Information. (Perhaps she should have been more circumspect.) So now it's all about what is required to show that information is present. And so when she talks about trying to "define" information, what she means is she hasn't been able to come up with an "operational definition" which would allow her to say that her proposed simulation has generated information. CSI is completely irrelevant to this exercise. The question is not, what is information. The question is, how do we know when we've found it? What should we look for? Elizabeth doesn't like the answers because she can't conceive of a way to program them into her sim. But it is not the case that the things we should look for have not been given to her. They have. Repeatedly. ad nauseam.
For quite good reasons, I think, we have eschewed CSI.
lawl. If you have "good reasons" other than "CSI is irrelevant to your claim," name them. If you can't generate Information do you think you can generate CSI? It is Dembski who has claimed that Chance + Necessity cannot generate CSI. Surely there's already a refutation out there! Surely! And if Chance + Necessity can generate CSI, doesn't it follow that Chance + Necessity can generate plain old Information?Mung
August 4, 2011
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There is a finite number of counting operations that could have been performed since the beginning of time.Mung
August 4, 2011
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Wouldn't/ couldn't it also be akin to archaeology and forensic science- RE Intelligent Design? That is when agencies act they tend to leave behind traces of their involvement. In Barry's OP IC and CSI would be such traces based on our knowledge of cause and effect relationships. Therefor to refute the design inference all one would need to do is demonstrate IC and CSI can indeed be produced by necessity and chance*. *Dr Behe:
In fact, my argument for intelligent design is open to direct experimental rebuttal. Here is a thought experiment that makes the point clear. In Darwin’s Black Box (Behe 1996) I claimed that the bacterial flagellum was irreducibly complex and so required deliberate intelligent design. The flip side of this claim is that the flagellum can’t be produced by natural selection acting on random mutation, or any other unintelligent process. To falsify such a claim, a scientist could go into the laboratory, place a bacterial species lacking a flagellum under some selective pressure (for mobility, say), grow it for ten thousand generations, and see if a flagellum--or any equally complex system--was produced. If that happened, my claims would be neatly disproven.(1) How about Professor Coyne’s concern that, if one system were shown to be the result of natural selection, proponents of ID could just claim that some other system was designed? I think the objection has little force. If natural selection were shown to be capable of producing a system of a certain degree of complexity, then the assumption would be that it could produce any other system of an equal or lesser degree of complexity. If Coyne demonstrated that the flagellum (which requires approximately forty gene products) could be produced by selection, I would be rather foolish to then assert that the blood clotting system (which consists of about twenty proteins) required intelligent design.
Joseph
August 4, 2011
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They mostly look like rocks...mostlymaterial.infantacy
August 4, 2011
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RK, the design comes from the artificial constraint. That can be accomplishred by the hand, or the machine.Upright BiPed
August 4, 2011
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I don't think if "mechanical necessity" were proven it would invalidate ID. Behe, e.g., says that life could have originated via purely natural means without recourse to agent intervention. As do other ID spokespersons, who at remain publicly agnostic on the issue of agent intervention. Think of a signature-writing machine. Once set up, it writes signatures entirely via "mechanical necessity". So, is the signature a result of intelligent design, or not?RkBall
August 4, 2011
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Hey Tragic (20) Ya got me :) fair and square. Of course, I could just say that my "1-2-3" was simply a demonstration of counting, and was never meant to be comprehensive. I could further the scam by humbling myself to say "I am sorry" for leading you to believe otherwise. :) I like that one. I picked it up from our recent opponents.Upright BiPed
August 4, 2011
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