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The Problem of Improvable Design

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Dave Jarvis offers an interesting variant of the suboptimality anti-design argument at http://joot.com/dave/writings/articles/design.shtml. His variant is based on the recent finding that mammals under certain conditions can regenerate organs previously thought unregenerable. I responded to this line of objection in The Design Revolution, chapter 6 (“Optimal Design”). Here is a relevant portion of that chapter:

Just because a design could be improved in the sense increasing the functionality of some aspect of an organism does not mean that such an improvement would be beneficial within the wider ecosystem within which the organism finds itself. A functionality belonging to a predator might be vastly improvable, but also might render the predator that much more dangerous to its prey and thereby drastically alter the balance of the ecosystem, conceivably to the detriment of the entire ecosystem. In criticizing design, biologists tend to place a premium on functionalities of individual organisms and see design as optimal to the degree that those individual functionalities are maximized. But higher order designs of entire ecosystems might require lower order designs of individual organisms to fall short of maximal function.

Our view of design is shaped too much by sports competitions. We always want to go faster, higher, longer, and stronger. But do we really want to go faster, higher, longer, and stronger without limit? Of course not. It is precisely the limits on functionalities that make the game of life interesting (that’s why many games employ handicaps). A five-hundred-pound seven-foot-six football player with the strength of a gorilla and the speed of a cheetah would instantly be banned from the sport, because just by playing the game to the best of one’s ability, such a player would maim or kill all normal players who got in the way.

Fans might show up for the novelty or out of bloodlust, but such a player would destroy the competitive drama of the game. Indeed, before long this super-player would destroy or run off anyone willing to play the game and there would cease to be a game. Likewise, such a predator in an ecosystem would wipe out all the prey, after which it would go extinct. Or if the super-creature was omnivorous, it would reproduce optimally (like rabbits? like bacteria?) until it wiped out all life, after which it would again go extinct (unless it became an autotroph and could manufacture its food from scratch as some single-celled organisms).

Biology is among other things a drama. For dramas to be interesting requires characters who are less than optimal in some respects. In fact, authors of human dramas often consciously design their characters with flaws and weaknesses. Would Hamlet be nearly as interesting a play if Shakespeare had not designed the play’s lead character to exhibit certain flaws and weaknesses, notably indecisiveness?

I’m not saying that weaknesses or flaws in the design characteristics of organisms or ecosystems can be the basis for a design inference. Design inferences are drawn by identifying features of systems that are uniquely diagnostic of intelligence. At the same time, weaknesses or flaws in the design characteristics of organisms or ecosystems could be compatible with evolutionary changes guided by an intelligence. Nor would such an evolutionary scenario, in which not every aspect of organisms taken in isolation is optimal, entail that any intelligence guiding evolutionary change would have to be flawed.

Comments
Harvey wrote: "I get evolutionists asking me this question a lot. They ask why God would design things with faults in them but I don’t have a good answer. They say that a perfect designer wouldn’t make simple mistakes and give examples such as the giraffe and a nerve in the neck which goes the wrong way or something. Can anyone help me out? Sometimes I feel I’m losing the battle." It's a hard question for you to answer because you've accepted certain assumptions without realizing it. They assume that the designer wants a perfect world, because that's what they want. They might just as well ask "Why is there death?", since it's the ultimate "failure" of an organism. But what is their basis for assuming that a designer would want all living things to live eternally in their optimal state? What if there is some higher or even sinister purpose in the designer's mind? If I may make a Biblical paraphrase, these people are like children who sing a dirge that complain that you don't mourn, or they play wedding music and gripe that you don't celebrate. Who set evolution-believers up as arbiters of how the universe should be run? ID tries to determine what IS. Your antagonists are talking about what OUGHT TO BE. What does that have to do with science?russ
October 1, 2005
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Thinking about design in a holistic context seems to me to be the answer here, as Dr. Dempski has said. For instance, another historical objection to design has been the "dinosaur arguement": why would a designer create creatures that go extinct? But if you look at evolution as being a process of continuous unfolding of design (as Micheal Denton has argued in "Nature's Destiny"), the creatures of each era might (might - this is pure conjecture here) be necessary in order to prepare the ecosystem for the next stage of evolution.jimbo
October 1, 2005
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For the inverted retina in vertebrate eyes being designed, look at Michael Denton's article here: http://www.arn.org/docs/odesign/od192/invertedretina192.htm. Note that Denton is an expert in genetically induced retinal disease.William Dembski
October 1, 2005
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Benjii "The eye achieves perfect optimalization." Oh yeah? Then why do so many people wear corrective lenses?DaveScot
October 1, 2005
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The eye achieves perfect optimalization. It's not terribly designed. First of all, to say that something is terribly designed is purely subjective.Benjii
October 1, 2005
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Tom, in all fairness some questions aren't answered by the fall. The eyeball is one of them. The optic nerve in vertebrates comes off the eye from the front side creating a blind spot where it exits the eye. Evolution can easily explain it. Design cannot (or at least I haven't heard a reasonable engineering explanation for it). On the other hand, lack of a good explanation does not mean no good explanation exists. Just ask an evolutionist if no detailed series of mutations to get a flagellum means there is no detailed series possible. ;-) The vertebrate eye works exceedingly well and there may be a very good engineering reasons why the optic nerve feeds off the front side. In any case expecting perfection in biological design is a theological presumption. ID isn't about theology and using theological presumptions about the nature of a hypothetical designer is not a scientific argument. Evolutionists can't have their cake and eat it too. They must stick to arguments from science and so must we. Just as an aside, I don't posit detailed design at the macro level. It appears to me that the design was encapsulated in an original egg cell (omne vivo ex ovum - everything comes from an egg) which lacked exacting detail for every little thing in the adult forms but contained all the necessary complex specified information to unfold itself from an egg to the myriad forms we see today and the past forms we see in the fossil record. I don't think the designer(s), if there was indeed a designer, interfered with evolution once the ball was set rolling. Hard evidence for design is at the subcellular level in my opinion. It's hinted at by macroscopic forms and macroscopic properties of the universe which explains why creation explanations have been with us since the dawn of thinking but it's really the molecular machinery inside living cells (biological ID) and the physical laws governing matter and energy (cosmological ID) that inspire the modern design argument. The evidence and analysis thereof in the modern argument are 100% in the finest tradition of scientific inquiry. Indeed, every scrap of knowledge teased out of the universe by scientific inquiry is drawn into the modern design argument and not one tiny bit of anything that isn't science. The modern design argument may be wrong, many things in science turn out to be wrong, but it's still good science.DaveScot
October 1, 2005
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This problem, Harvey, is complicated by the political/scientific system we're in (at least in the U.S.), which requires us to separate ID as science from the implications that may come from it. If we were allowed to postulate the Christian God in answering your question, we could talk about the effects of sin on creation. Biblical theology says the original creation was perfect but has since been profoundly marred because of sin. We generally have to keep that kind of discussion separate from ID as science, though, for all kinds of societal reasons, as you're probably already aware.* Or rather, we have to keep those kinds of answers separate. The discussion is allowed to proceed as far as questions like the ones you've been asked. Detractors are allowed to ask questions, like these, that impinge on theology, but ID proponents are not allowed to explore theological answers. If the question comes up in a different (non-ID context), and if you believe Christian theology, then "sin" should be part of your answer, along with other good responses in previous comments here. We need to do more work on exploring the very odd intellectual/political climate surrounding this whole question of ID and religion, which has set the rules about what we're "allowed" to say and in what contexts. (I've taken a stab at it myself.) In spite of all this, ID can keep moving forward, just by doing its science. It's possible to conceptually separate the science from the implications that will have to be discussed if it gains more acceptance (as long as philosophical materialism is not in the initial set of "rules".) I expect the day will come when ID's research results will force all these other questions to the fore, and we'll be able to talk about answers then, too. *The main reason we have to keep religion separate from ID is spurious yet powerful. It is the accusation that ID is an attempt to bring religion into the public schools. The Discovery Institute's stand on this is so far from this that it should never be a concern, but dozens, maybe hundreds of pundits still say it's an attempt to sneak religion into the schools.TomG
October 1, 2005
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I get evolutionists asking me this question a lot. They ask why God would design things with faults in them but I don't have a good answer. They say that a perfect designer wouldn't make simple mistakes and give examples such as the giraffe and a nerve in the neck which goes the wrong way or something. Can anyone help me out? Sometimes I feel I'm losing the battle.harvey
October 1, 2005
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Norman asked: You lost your arm in an accident, so the doctor offers you a shot that will change your body so it will regrow limbs — are you going to turn the doctor down? No.RussellBelding
October 1, 2005
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Just one little irrelevant, hypothetical question: You lost your arm in an accident, so the doctor offers you a shot that will change your body so it will regrow limbs -- are you going to turn the doctor down?Norman Doering
October 1, 2005
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The comment "poor design means there was no design", should not I suggest be dismissed easily. Not becuse the comment has a criticism to make, but because the comment seems to flag a lack of understanding of design discipline. A designer of complex systems would normally work to a specification or even a wish list. They would often have a budget for their designing effort and a budget for the design object's share of the resources of the system containg it. The offhand comments about a lack of regenerative capability for body parts is a cute observation. Nothing more. Would it be nice to have regerating limbs? Possibly. Would this feature have encouraged more fights and wars? Possibly. Would it have helped children who loose limbs in accidents? Probably. Richard Dawkins has often claimed the human eye is poorly designed as the light sensing receptors face "the wrong way". (The Blind Watchmaker, chapter 1) To my knowledge he has never provided an alternative design, nor discussed why the current design's light sensitivity would be improved, without degrading other performance criteria, if the receptors were reversed. His comments are also cute observations. Nothing more. By contrast Michael Denton has discussed this "poor design" feature (http://www.arn.org/docs/odesign/od192/invertedretina192.htm ) suggesting the energy needs of the eye need the exiting design. Biology used to be more of a descriptive science. Perhaps it will come to grips with its need to get involved in systems engineering as well. Dave Jarvis' comments could just as well have been "It is better to be immortal than to be mortal, so designers do not exist because if they did they would have designed humans to be immortal".RussellBelding
October 1, 2005
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"we have to keep on fixing the bugs left there by earlier (intelligent) designers!" As Archie Bunker said: "I resemble that remark!"DaveScot
September 30, 2005
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A mind is a terrible thing to waste. The ability to grow a new head should your current head get cut off is an even more terrible thing to waste. I've always wondered what could possibly have been more important to survival than regeneration of lost parts that caused evolution to trade it away. The story of King Arther and the Black Knight would have been much more entertaining if people could regrow lost limbs too! http://www.rit.edu/~smo4215/monty.htm#Scene%204 By the way, I think there's an analogy between Arthur (ID) and the Black Knight (evolution) to be made here.DaveScot
September 30, 2005
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tried it agin but same thing, its not working :( i quit :( :(Charliecrs
September 30, 2005
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it says duplicate post detected but i dont see the long post anywares :( what happend ? :(Charliecrs
September 30, 2005
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Dave Jarvis wrote in his attack: "Humans do it with skin, hair, and nails. Newts always get another piece of tail. Fish use their eyes to do it. Starfish and earthworms multiply like rabbits when they do it. So why are mammals excluded from the elite groups of animals that can regrow organs and limbs?" Mammals are no longer excluded -- just read this: http://wired.com/news/print/0,1294,68962,00.html I quote: "Mice discovered accidentally at the Wistar Institute in Pennsylvania have the seemingly miraculous ability to regenerate like a salamander, and even regrow vital organs."Norman Doering
September 30, 2005
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Wrote a long post / argument but its not going through :(Charliecrs
September 30, 2005
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This guy is interested in winning an argument. If he were interested in clarity and understanding he wouldn't employ such bogus reasoning. He knows what is "true", so it's now just a matter of discrediting his opponents. The ends justify the means.russ
September 30, 2005
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It may be that there are good arguments against ID, but "poor design means that there was no design" is certainly not one of them. The fact that people keep on recycling this idea is so illogical, that its spooky. Human technology (clearly designed) is full of "poor" designs. In fact, this is what keeps the computer-programming industry going - we have to keep on fixing the bugs left there by earlier (intelligent) designers! Also: if the IN-ability of some animals to regenerate is evidence against ID, then is the KNOWN ability of some animals to regenerate evidence FOR ID? It only takes one instance of reasonably suspected ID to cast doubt on Darwin. I think that the real motive behind the "poor design means no design" argument is "if there really is a God, then why does he allow so much suffering in the world?" This is a totally separate issue from the question of whether life has a designer.Tim Sverduk
September 30, 2005
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