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There are more things in heaven and earth, Paul, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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It’s funny how Paul Myers, Richard Dawkins, Eugenie Scott, et al say that evolution isn’t about religion yet you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting one of their rants on religion. But that’s not the point of this article.

I have a problem with these people in that they arbitrarily limit what science can potentially explain. The so called supernatural remains supernatural only as long as there’s no metric by which to measure it. Once a metric is discovered the supernatural becomes the natural.

Paul quotes someone on the virgin birth of Christ saying that it defies everything science has revealed in regard to mammalian reproduction. This is utter dreck. Even (especially!) Myers should know that meiosis is a two stage process wherein the first stage results in the production of two perfectly viable diploid cells. The second stage of meiosis then splits these two cells into four haploid gametes. Interrupting the process at the completion of the first stage results in parthenogenesis. Indeed, there are number of organisms in nature that have lost the second stage of meiosis and now reproduce parthenogenetically. See here for more detail. Moreover, it has also been scientifically established that an XX genome can produce phenotypical male offspring. Morever, while all observed XX males in humans are sterile, pathenogenetic populations can still reproduce sexually if sexual reproduction still exists in the species (Da Vinci Code fans will be happy to know this). While it was widely believed that mammals had completely lost the ability for parthenogenetic reproduction, in 2004 researchers in Tokyo managed to create viable parthenogenetic mice. So Paul, science now reveals that the virgin birth of a human male is quite possible. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. What I want to know now is whether ignorance or dishonesty explains why you’d quote someone who claims the virgin birth of Christ defies everything we know about mammalian reproduction. Neither explanation becomes you of course and it gives me immeasurable delight to put you in the proverbial position of choosing between a rock and a hard place. 😆

The next thing I’d like to debunk in Paul’s latest diatribe is his assertion that matter and energy is all that exists in the universe and science can explain it all without reverting to anything else.

The latest findings in cosmology are that the universe is composed of 5% visible matter, 20% dark matter, and 75% dark energy. The theory of gravity applied to the visible matter and energy in our solar system and local region of the galaxy predicts with exquisite precision the motion of visible bodies. However, when applied to larger structures such as our galaxy and our local galactic cluster the predictions break down. In order to explain those motions there must be 5 times the amount of visible matter existing in some form of normal matter that is not visible. That’s not very incredible and many hypothesis based on known physics are on the table to characterize the dark matter component. See here for more detail. What’s more bizarre is that recently it was discovered that in the universe writ large (relative motions of galactic clusters) it is revealed that the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate. This was not predicted by the theory of gravity and the amount of matter and energy inferred from the motion of local galaxies. In point of fact there must be something completely unknown going on in the universe. 75% of the “stuff” which makes up the universe is an unknown coined dark energy that diffuses the universe.

So you see, Paul, matter and energy that we know about are only a small fraction of what makes the universe go ’round, so to speak. Who’s to say at this point in time that this huge amount of unknown “stuff” is incapable of organization that produces intelligence? Could God be lurking in the dark energy of the universe? Can science investigate the nature of dark energy? You bet it can. The jury is still out, Paul. You don’t know half what you think you know about the nature of nature nor of what you presume to be the bounds of science’s capacity to investigate it. Hence the subject line of this article.

Update: It has been suggested in the commentary from Professor of Biology Allen MacNeil of Cornell that I don’t know what I’m talking about regarding meiosis in that there is no stage wherein 2 diploid cells are present. I present to you The Phases of Meiosis from Biology 032 at Brown University.

Meiosis begins with Interphase I. During this phase there is a duplication genetic material, DNA replication. Cells go from being 2N, 2C (N= chromosome content, C = DNA content) to 2N, 4C.

further down

In Cytokinesis I, the cells finally split, with one copy of each chromosome in each one. Each of the two resulting cells is now 2N, 2C.

Now I don’t know exactly where the good Professor MacNeil learned his elementary cell biology but where I did a 2n,2c cell is a diploid cell with the normal diploid chromosome count (2n) and the normal amount of DNA (2c). But I’d like thank the professor for keeping on my toes. For a moment there I’d thought I’d had a senior moment and forgotten basic things I learned 30 years ago.

Update 2: The preponderance of literature calls the intermediate cells 1N,2C. This appears to be just semantics. The cells contain 1n unique chromosomes but 2n total chromosomes. I can’t find a definition of “diploid” anywhere that says two identical paired chromosomes only counts as one chromosome. The situation is 23 paired chromosomes that are 100% homozygous. It’s still diploid except perhaps to a pedant.

Comments
Allen Excuse my ignorance. Pedantry in the definition of "diploid" and "haploid" in describing meiosis is beyond me. I was under the impression that haploid and diploid refer to no more than the the normal number of chromosomes (haploid = n = 23 and diploid = 2n = 46 for humans) . The second stage of meiosis involves no DNA replication so I'm wondering how two cells with haploid number can become four cells with haploid number without DNA replication. Is there some sort of magic involved here or do the two daughter cells from the first stage of meiosis each contain 46 chromosomes arranged in 2 duplicate sets of 23 where they can then divide into four unpaired groups of 23 chromosomes each in another slightly modified mitotic division? Meiosis is described as two mitotic divisions with a little bit of modification to normal mitosis such that the first division instead of producing two heterozygous daughters identical to the mother cell produces two homozygous daughters, one with a pair of 23 chromosomes from the maternal side and the other with 23 chromosomes from the paternal side (with a little bit of crossover between maternal and paternal sides to make a novel result instead of an identical copy). If this is not correct then the literature is very misleading. This makes all kinds of sense in an evolutionary POV. Mitosis ostensibly evolved long before meiosis. The first stage of this evolution would simply be a modification of mitosis that resulted in two homozygous but perfectly viable cells. Then the second stage evolved where the homozygous cells divide again in a slightly modified mitosis into two haploid cells. This then handily explains why formerly meiotic organisms could devolve into parthenogenetic reproducers and also why the Tokyo researchers could coax a mouse into producing viable parthenogenetic offspring. Of coures I didn't come up with the semi-meiotic theory of evolution. That credit goes to J.A. Davison who published it in 1984 in the peer reviewed Journal of Theoretical Biology. http://hkusua.hku.hk/~cdbeling/Semi-Meiosis.pdf Why don't you be a maverick and be the first to find fault in Davison's work. I sure can't. It's as much as I can do to count up the chromosomes at the end of prophase 2 and arrive at a number of 46 in each of the daughter cells. Barring that maybe it's really you that should flunk out of Biology 101 for failing to count up the number of chromosomes at the end of prophase 2 and not coming up with the 2n number for humans.DaveScot
November 21, 2006
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"It’s funny how Paul Myers, Richard Dawkins, Eugenie Scott, et al say that evolution isn’t about religion yet you can’t swing a dead cat without hitting one of their rants on religion." I'm glad someone is calling these folks out on their anti-religious bias. Could it be a coincidence that the staunchest darwinians are also the staunchest atheists? Hmmm... "The so called supernatural remains supernatural only as long as there’s no metric by which to measure it. Once a metric is discovered the supernatural becomes the natural." This has been my position on the matter for some time. But it raises an interesting question--is the ID movement really trying to expand science to include supernaturalism, or is it trying to expand science so that it might naturalise what is now considered to be 'supernatural'. The former seems easier to support than the latter. After all, can't something only remain supernatural if it can't be explained? And doesn't science purport to explain things? I consider these (at least somewhat) open questions. "Who’s to say at this point in time that this huge amount of unknown “stuff” is incapable of organization that produces intelligence? Could God be lurking in the dark energy of the universe?" I'm afraid this is where I must respectfully disagree. (I won't comment on the section on parthenogenesis.) I'm more than a little bothered by the idea of a god that recedes into the far reaches of the universe where we have yet to probe--simply because we have yet to probe there. This is the 'god-of-the-gaps' par excellence. No god worth having should need to retreat into the darkness like that, and this position is simply not scientific. Apart from that, it seems a little absurd. Dark matter has a few things in common with familiar matter, and it differs in a few important details, but there's no theoretical reason to posit something so radical as that it has intelligence! Not only is there no theoretical basis for such a prediction, but there's also no theoretical framework in which it would make sense. That doesn't rule it out by any means, but it makes such speculation unscientific--at least until we have more data about dark matter.Reed Orak
November 21, 2006
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Actually it takes a measure of faith for Prof. Myers to accept that even matter and energy exist independently of Mind. What is more real in our experience are conscious, first-person perceptions of matter and energy. I'd like to see him explain that in physicalistically acceptable terms. Good luck, Paul. (You'll need all of it you can get.) ;)crandaddy
November 21, 2006
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Whoops - looking more closely, you may be referring to the XX male as the offspring of the posited virgin birth. But that certainly hasn't been shown possible. 80% of XX males are male because one X chromosome has acquired SRY from the father's Y chromosome - and the reason for the other 20% isn't yet known, so contribution from the father's Y (or even any other) chromosome hasn't been ruled out.Robin Levett
November 21, 2006
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DaveScot said: So Paul, science now reveals that the virgin birth of a human male is quite possible. From a phenotypically male human (which is what the discussion is about)?Robin Levett
November 21, 2006
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Allen, Would you flunk the student even if he/ she got everything else correct and that was only one of perhaps 100 questions they flubbed?Joseph
November 21, 2006
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Sorry Dave, Yup Bio 101: Telephase I- the cytoplasm of the germ cell divides at some point. There are now two haploid (n) cells. Each cell has one of each type of chromosome that was present in the parent (2n) cell. However, all chromosomes are still in the duplicated state. (italics in original) Biology- concepts and applications Starr fifth edition page 142Joseph
November 21, 2006
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Unfortunately, Dave, the first division of meiosis does NOT produce two "diploid" cells. It produces two HAPLOID cells (i.e. two cells that have a single set of chromosomes), in which the chromosomes are double stranded. The second division of meiosis simply divides the sister chromatids in these two cells, which doesn't change the fact that they are already haploid at the end of the first division. This means that the products of the first division of meiosis are totally incapable of producing a fully functioning organism. This would be like producing a fully functioning organism from a sperm or egg cell; impossible, in other words. Those vertebrates that are parthenogenetic (a few species of whiptail lizards in the southwestern US and the Caucasus mountains in Russia) do not produce fully functioning offspring from first division daughter cells. They produce them from hybrids between several sets of chromosomes from different species (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis for the details). This is freshman biology, Dave. If one of my students had made a statement this egregiously wrong, I would have flunked him or her on the exam.Allen_MacNeill
November 21, 2006
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