This summer’s theory, chlorine-based life, struts the catwalk

_{Denyse O'Leary

July 8, 2011

Intelligent Design, Origin Of Life}

Share: Facebook; Twitter; LinkedIn; Flipboard; Print; Email

chlorine gas/W. Oelen

From Carl Zimmer at Discover Magazine’s “The Loom” blog, we learn, “Last year arsenic-based life, now chlorine-based life” (12011/07/06)

I checked in with Steven Benner, a chemist who has raised a lot of concerns about the arsenic-life research last year. What did he think of the new research?“It looks true,” he said.

Benner also pointed out that using chlorine in DNA is a pretty modest changed compared to what would have been required to substitute arsenic for phosphorus in the backbone of DNA. Swapping in chlorine doesn’t change how the compound reacts with other compounds, doesn’t
change its size much, doesn’t change its stability much, and so on.

On the other hand, it appears to have the advantage of being real.

That’s something, to be sure. Currently, fanzines are arguing as to whether it should be called”chlorine-based” life, anyway. Informative comment thread shows chlorine phenomenon well-known and used for practical purposes in the past.

File under: High hopes, alongside Arsenic-driven origin of life takes hit” and “This guy knows exactly what happened in the history of life on Earth”

Hat tip: Pos-Darwinista

Comments

Elizabeth, perhaps you can help me with a little problem?,,, Finely Tuned Big Bang, Elvis In The Multiverse, and the Schroedinger Equation - Granville Sewell - audio http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4233012 At the 4:00 minute mark of the preceding audio, Dr. Sewell comments on the ‘transcendent’ and ‘constant’ Schroedinger’s Equation; ‘In chapter 2, I talk at some length on the Schroedinger Equation which is called the fundamental equation of chemistry. It’s the equation that governs the behavior of the basic atomic particles subject to the basic forces of physics. This equation is a partial differential equation with a complex valued solution. By complex valued I don’t mean complicated, I mean involving solutions that are complex numbers, a+b^i, which is extraordinary that the governing equation, basic equation, of physics, of chemistry, is a partial differential equation with complex valued solutions. There is absolutely no reason why the basic particles should obey such a equation that I can think of except that it results in elements and chemical compounds with extremely rich and useful chemical properties. In fact I don’t think anyone familiar with quantum mechanics would believe that we’re ever going to find a reason why it should obey such an equation, they just do! So we have this basic, really elegant mathematical equation, partial differential equation, which is my field of expertise, that governs the most basic particles of nature and there is absolutely no reason why, anyone knows of, why it does, it just does. British physicist Sir James Jeans said “From the intrinsic evidence of His creation, the great architect of the universe begins to appear as a pure mathematician”, so God is a mathematician to’. ,,, Now Elizabeth, why in blue blazes is every basic particle of the universe obeying the transcendent logic of this equation??? Is or is not atheistic materialism true??? i.e. the Materialist is at a complete loss to explain why this should be so, whereas the Christian Theist presupposes such ‘transcendent’ control,,, John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. of note; 'the Word' is translated from the Greek word ‘Logos’. Logos happens to be the word from which we derive our modern word ‘Logic’.bornagain77_{July 12, 2011
July
07
Jul
12
12
2011
11:36 AM
11
11
36
AM
PDT}

Elizabeth Liddle, really??? This from a person who I've seen argue for the variability of the universal constants??? Yes, I guess it makes perfect sense coming from you, Absolute truth which governs this material reality exists except when it doesn't!!! At least I admire your consistency at being inconsistent in your worldview!!bornagain77_{July 12, 2011
July
07
Jul
12
12
2011
11:10 AM
11
11
10
AM
PDT}

ba77:
A worldview which ultimately denies the independent reality of such transcendent entities???
Except that it doesn't :)Elizabeth Liddle_{July 12, 2011
July
07
Jul
12
12
2011
11:03 AM
11
11
03
AM
PDT}

of note: 5-Chlorouracil is toxic,,, and furthermore,, which incorporate non-natural building blocks in their genetic material could neither compete nor exchange genetic messages with wild type organisms, but would die in the absence of the xenobiotic. http://www.sott.net/articles/show/230778 You know DrREC, this kind of is a big let down as far as showing a gain in functional complexity over the wild type in native environment. But instead of squabbling over different environments and what not - being the Darwin skeptic I am, perhaps you can show me just one example where DNA replication was evolved De Novo??? Dna Molecular Biology Visualizations - Wrapping And DNA Replication - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8NHcQesYl8bornagain77_{July 12, 2011
July
07
Jul
12
12
2011
11:01 AM
11
11
01
AM
PDT}

DrREC, you stated; 'I can’t begin to follow your logic in the last posts.' DrREC, has it ever struck you as odd that you are using the transcendent entities of logic and reason to try to prove the validity of the atheistic materialism worldview to others??? A worldview which ultimately denies the independent reality of such transcendent entities???bornagain77_{July 12, 2011
July
07
Jul
12
12
2011
10:20 AM
10
10
20
AM
PDT}

DrREC, I see the experiment as further evidence against your genetic reductionism model, whereas you don't, therefore it is up to you to prove that 'random' mutations to DNA can actually change body-plan morpho-genesis, as is required by the genetic reductionism model of neo-Darwinism, since clearly this experiment does not provide such proof for you, though by all rights it should have. In fact this experiment offers strong proof for higher levels of epigenetic information which are 'calculating' correct responses to 're-conform' to its primary shape.,,, And all this leads back to the 'elephant in the living room' you are denying the importance of, of 'What in the world is non-local quantum information doing in molecular biology if the local causes of neo-Darwinism are sufficient to explain all the wondrous complexity and diversity of life we see on earth???,,, and so it goes DrREC, keep plugging those pesky leaks with lies, but your atheistic ship goes down none the less!!!bornagain77_{July 12, 2011
July
07
Jul
12
12
2011
10:11 AM
10
10
11
AM
PDT}

" hold that it is part of a ‘designed’ feature that enables bacteria to detoxify the earth " Well, the bacteria are learning to use 5-chlorouracil, not detoxify chlorine (which most can do at some level by conjugating it to Glutathione. Others can reduce the chlorine or perchlorates. So, the bacteria aren't detoxifying anything, or fixing elemental chlorine, just incorporating and working with an unusual nucleotide. Moreover, the 'design' you perceive took around 1000 generations to emerge, and only in a system where chlorouracil was slowly ramped up. Why wouldn't a design work from the beginning? Why would it be present only to incorporate a man-made nucleotide?DrREC_{July 12, 2011
July
07
Jul
12
12
2011
09:28 AM
9
09
28
AM
PDT}

Bornagain, I can't begin to follow your logic in the last posts. You are arguing that E. coli did not evolve to use and depend on chlorouracil in this experiment, because it went through a less rod-like intermediate, and ANIMAL body plans are complex? Therefore?DrREC_{July 12, 2011
July
07
Jul
12
12
2011
09:21 AM
9
09
21
AM
PDT}

DrREC, to further critique your 'beloved' experiment. Besides the resiliency to 'memory of form', which is inexplicable in your materialistic genetic reductionism model, is the fact, as I have pointed out before, that bacteria look exactly the same as they did hundreds of millions of years ago; 'Static evolution: is pond scum the same now as billions of years ago? Excerpt: But what intrigues (paleo-biologist) J. William Schopf most is lack of change. Schopf was struck 30 years ago by the apparent similarities between some 1-billion-year-old fossils of blue-green bacteria and their modern microbial microbial. “They surprisingly looked exactly like modern species,” Schopf recalls. Now, after comparing data from throughout the world, Schopf and others have concluded that modern pond scum differs little from the ancient blue-greens. “This similarity in morphology is widespread among fossils of [varying] times,” says Schopf. As evidence, he cites the 3,000 such fossils found;' But also is the fact, that on the molecular level, bacteria are almost exactly the same as they were a few hundred million years ago: The Paradox of the "Ancient" (250 Million Year Old) Bacterium Which Contains "Modern" Protein-Coding Genes: “Almost without exception, bacteria isolated from ancient material have proven to closely resemble modern bacteria at both morphological and molecular levels.” Heather Maughan*, C. William Birky Jr., Wayne L. Nicholson, William D. Rosenzweig§ and Russell H. Vreeland ; http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/19/9/1637 ,, Thus DrREC, what should be made of this, you hold that your 'beloved' codon replacement experiment is concrete proof of the ability of evolution to produce greater and greater levels of functional complexity, whereas I hold that it is part of a 'designed' feature that enables bacteria to detoxify the earth (Chlorine is poisonous!), and that once the 'anomalous' chlorine environment is dealt with the parent strain will always be more 'fit' than the 'evolved' strain. Well DrREC, what exactly does the evidence say??? And exactly how much absurdity are you willing to bear to maintain your atheistic worldview???bornagain77_{July 12, 2011
July
07
Jul
12
12
2011
07:23 AM
7
07
23
AM
PDT}

i.e. if your genetic reductionism/neo-Darwinian model were correct then changing the codon should have effected body plan morphogenesis in a significant way, as it initially did, but the resilience of 'memory of form' clearly indicates higher levels of information at work other than your 'out=dated' genetic reductionism model!!!bornagain77_{July 11, 2011
July
07
Jul
11
11
2011
09:08 PM
9
09
08
PM
PDT}

The Origin at 150: is a new evolutionary synthesis in sight? - Koonin - Nov. 2009 Excerpt: The edifice of the modern synthesis has crumbled, apparently, beyond repair. http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/literature/2009/11/18/not_to_mince_words_the_modern_synthesis Modern Synthesis of Neo-Darwinism Is Dead - Paul Nelson - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5548184/bornagain77_{July 11, 2011
July
07
Jul
11
11
2011
08:45 PM
8
08
45
PM
PDT}

So DrREC you claim body plan morphogenesis is attributable solely to the genetic reductionism model of neo-Darwinism??? If so, you seem to have clearly put your atheistic/materialistic beliefs before science in this matter.; notes: This inability for the DNA code to account for body plans is also clearly shown by extensive mutation studies to the DNA of different organisms which show 'exceedingly rare' beneficial morphological changes from mutations to the DNA code. The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories - Stephen Meyer "Neo-Darwinism seeks to explain the origin of new information, form, and structure as a result of selection acting on randomly arising variation at a very low level within the biological hierarchy, mainly, within the genetic text. Yet the major morphological innovations depend on a specificity of arrangement at a much higher level of the organizational hierarchy, a level that DNA alone does not determine. Yet if DNA is not wholly responsible for body plan morphogenesis, then DNA sequences can mutate indefinitely, without regard to realistic probabilistic limits, and still not produce a new body plan. Thus, the mechanism of natural selection acting on random mutations in DNA cannot in principle generate novel body plans, including those that first arose in the Cambrian explosion." http://eyedesignbook.com/ch6/eyech6-append-d.html Stephen Meyer - Functional Proteins And Information For Body Plans - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4050681 This following video and article are much more clear for explaining exactly why mutations to the DNA do not control Body Plan morphogenesis, since the mutations are the ‘bottom rung of the ladder’ as far as the 'higher levels of the layered information’ of the cell are concerned: Stephen Meyer on Craig Venter, Complexity Of The Cell & Layered Information http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4798685 Getting Over the Code Delusion (Epigenetics) - Talbot - November 2010 - Excellent Article for explaining exactly why epigentics falsifies the neo-Darwinian paradigm of genetic reductionism: http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/getting-over-the-code-delusion Hopeful monsters,' transposons, and the Metazoan radiation: Excerpt: Viable mutations with major morphological or physiological effects are exceedingly rare and usually infertile; the chance of two identical rare mutant individuals arising in sufficient propinquity to produce offspring seems too small to consider as a significant evolutionary event. These problems of viable "hopeful monsters" render these explanations untenable. Paleobiologists Douglas Erwin and James Valentine “Yet by the late 1980s it was becoming obvious to most genetic researchers, including myself, since my own main research interest in the ‘80s and ‘90s was human genetics, that the heroic effort to find the information specifying life’s order in the genes had failed. There was no longer the slightest justification for believing that there exists anything in the genome remotely resembling a program capable of specifying in detail all the complex order of the phenotype (Body Plan)." Michael John Denton page 172 of Uncommon Dissent This lack of beneficial morphological novelty also includes the highly touted four-winged fruit fly mutations: ...Advantageous anatomical mutations are never observed. The four-winged fruit fly is a case in point: The second set of wings lacks flight muscles, so the useless appendages interfere with flying and mating, and the mutant fly cannot survive long outside the laboratory. Similar mutations in other genes also produce various anatomical deformations, but they are harmful, too. In 1963, Harvard evolutionary biologist Ernst Mayr wrote that the resulting mutants “are such evident freaks that these monsters can be designated only as ‘hopeless.’ They are so utterly unbalanced that they would not have the slightest chance of escaping elimination through natural selection." - Jonathan Wells http://www.evolutionnews.org/2008/08/inherit_the_spin_the_ncse_answ.html#footnote19 Gene Regulatory Networks in Embryos Depend on Pre-existing Spatial Coordinates - jonathan Wells - July 2011 Excerpt: The development of metazoan embryos requires the precise spatial deployment of specific cellular functions. This deployment depends on gene regulatory networks (GRNs), which operate downstream of initial spatial inputs (E. H. Davidson, Nature 468 [2010]: 911). Those initial inputs depend, in turn, on pre-existing spatial coordinate systems. In Drosophila oocytes, for example, spatial localization of the earliest-acting elements of the maternal GRN depends on the prior establishment of an anteroposterior body axis by antecedent asymmetries in the ovary. Those asymmetries appear to depend on cytoskeletal and membrane patterns rather than on DNA sequences,,, http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/07/paul_nelson_jonathan_wells_tak048301.html Darwin's Theory - Fruit Flies and Morphology - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZJTIwRY0bs Deep Genomics: In the Case of DNA, the Package Can Be as Important as Its Contents, New Work With Fruit Flies Reveals - January 2011 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110113102158.htm Static evolution: is pond scum the same now as billions of years ago? Excerpt: But what intrigues (paleo-biologist) J. William Schopf most is lack of change. Schopf was struck 30 years ago by the apparent similarities between some 1-billion-year-old fossils of blue-green bacteria and their modern microbial microbial. "They surprisingly looked exactly like modern species," Schopf recalls. Now, after comparing data from throughout the world, Schopf and others have concluded that modern pond scum differs little from the ancient blue-greens. "This similarity in morphology is widespread among fossils of [varying] times," says Schopf. As evidence, he cites the 3,000 such fossils found; http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Static+evolution%3A+is+pond+scum+the+same+now+as+billions+of+years+ago%3F-a014909330bornagain77_{July 11, 2011
July
07
Jul
11
11
2011
08:45 PM
8
08
45
PM
PDT}

"‘what in the world is constraining the e-coli to ‘memory of form’ " Memory of form? As a purely epigenetic phenomena? Go on....explain this system....references? There are a known set of genes (gasp!) that control E. coli size and shape. It appears the evolving E. coli perturbed this system, then gained compensatory mutations that reset it to its more optimal size and shape. I don't see epigenetic memory, or a falsification of evolution here. Then again, your imagination probably exceeds mine, and I tend to be more skeptical than creative in my approach to the data. http://jb.asm.org/cgi/content/short/163/2/615DrREC_{July 11, 2011
July
07
Jul
11
11
2011
08:13 PM
8
08
13
PM
PDT}

DrREC, let's take a closer look at this experiment that you are so enamored with: Excerpt: Automated selection was used to evolve an Escherichia coli strain unable to synthesize thymine nucleotides into a chemically modified organism whose DNA genome is composed of adenine, cytosine, guanine, and an artificial base, the thymine analogue 5-chlorouracil. Evolving cells were initially observed as irregular filaments and progressively recovered the appearance of short rods typical of wild-type E. coli (see picture). http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201100535/abstract Picture http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/store/10.1002/anie.201100535/asset/image_m/mcontent.gif?v=1&s=2d735114a3e1b21d3025a2117944bbca56294b94 OK DrREC, one thing that immediately jumps out at me is that despite, what you consider, such dramatic proof for evolution, of a change in a codon base, the e-coli in fact returned, after several rounds of compensatory mutations, to its original shape. Thus DrREC, to the unbiased observer, the question immediately arises, 'what in the world is constraining the e-coli to 'memory of form' since the DNA centered, genetic reductionism model, of neo-Darwinism, clearly is not responsible for the 'memory of form?? especially since switching a analog codon in fact disturbed the memory of form of the bacteria. i.e. This experiment, when considered carefully, actually falsifies the genetic reductionism model of neo-Darwinism, DrREC, and is further solid confirmation for 'epigenetic information!!! Cortical Inheritance: The Crushing Critique Against Genetic Reductionism - Arthur Jones - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4187488 Getting Over the Code Delusion (Epigenetics) - Talbot - November 2010 - Excellent Article for explaining exactly why epigentics falsifies the neo-Darwinian paradigm of genetic reductionism: http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/getting-over-the-code-delusion The second thing that jumps out at me DrREC is that chlorine is in fact poisonous to higher life forms, thus does this detoxification ability of bacteria not in fact actually conform to the many other lines of evidence pointing to long term 'designed' terra-forming' of the earth to make it suitable for higher life forms??? ,,, To this day, sulfate-reducing bacteria maintain an essential minimal level of these heavy metals in the ecosystem which are high enough so as to be available to the biological systems of the higher life forms that need them yet low enough so as not to be poisonous to those very same higher life forms. Bacterial Heavy Metal Detoxification and Resistance Systems: Excerpt: Bacterial plasmids contain genetic determinants for resistance systems for Hg2+ (and organomercurials), Cd2+, AsO2, AsO43-, CrO4 2-, TeO3 2-, Cu2+, Ag+, Co2+, Pb2+, and other metals of environmental concern.,, Recombinant DNA analysis has been applied to mercury, cadmium, zinc, cobalt, arsenic, chromate, tellurium and copper resistance systems. http://www.springerlink.com/content/u1t281704577v8t3/ http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/26/m026p203.pdf The role of bacteria in hydrogeochemistry, metal cycling and ore deposit formation: Textures of sulfide minerals formed by SRB (sulfate-reducing bacteria) during bioremediation (most notably pyrite and sphalerite) have textures reminiscent of those in certain sediment-hosted ores, supporting the concept that SRB may have been directly involved in forming ore minerals. http://www.goldschmidt2009.org/abstracts/finalPDFs/A1161.pdf Man has only recently caught on to harnessing the ancient detoxification ability of bacteria to cleanup his accidental toxic spills, as well as his toxic waste, from industry: What is Bioremediation? - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSpjRPWYJPg Metal-mining bacteria are green chemists - Sept. 2010 Excerpt: Microbes could soon be used to convert metallic wastes into high-value catalysts for generating clean energy, say scientists writing in the September issue of Microbiology. http://www.physorg.com/news202618665.html DrREC, if you become willing to step back away from your Darwinian worldview for a while of seeing evidence for 'vertical' evolution in every little experiment that comes along, then perhaps the evidence will form a more coherent picture for you???bornagain77_{July 11, 2011
July
07
Jul
11
11
2011
05:28 AM
5
05
28
AM
PDT}

As I thought DrREC, you have cited a paper that utilized compensatory mutations in its analysis,,,, abstract of your cite; 'Mathematical models predict that the future of the multidrug-resistant tuberculosis epidemic will depend on the fitness cost of drug resistance. We show that in laboratory-derived mutants of Mycobacterium tuberculosis, rifampin resistance is universally associated with a competitive fitness cost and that this cost is determined by the specific resistance mutation and strain genetic background. In contrast, we demonstrate that prolonged patient treatment can result in multidrug-resistant strains with no fitness defect and that strains with low- or no-cost resistance mutations are also the most frequent among clinical isolates.' but alas for Darwinism DrREC,,, increase the sensitivity of the fitness test by 'starving' both bacteria groups and you will find that the wild type maintains an edge even after compensatory mutations have been allowed to 'calculate' a response in the 'defective' bacteria!! ,,, As well DrREC, you ask,,, 'What don’t you get about this?' But alas once again DrREC, it seems that it is you that doesn't get it,,, for it is neo-Darwinism that is making the grand Darwinian claim for increased functional complexity above and beyond what was already present!!!bornagain77_{July 11, 2011
July
07
Jul
11
11
2011
02:08 AM
2
02
08
AM
PDT}

There is no parental strain. They all died.Mung_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
11:13 PM
11
11
13
PM
PDT}

And again, what is the percent difference in “functional complexity”, between CLU2, CLU4, CLU5 and the parental strain?DrREC_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
09:15 PM
9
09
15
PM
PDT}

"What don’t you get about this? Do you breathe underwater? That’s what those gill slits are for." I don't think you're interested in adult discussion. See ya later.DrREC_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
09:12 PM
9
09
12
PM
PDT}

"All by their lonesomes?" Your point?DrREC_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
09:10 PM
9
09
10
PM
PDT}

What don’t you get about this? Do you breathe underwater?
That's what those gill slits are for.Mung_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
09:10 PM
9
09
10
PM
PDT}

E. coli is functionless in the final environment (dead), while CLU2, CLU4, and CLU5 survive in 5-chlorouracil
All by their lonesomes?
Automated selection was used to evolve an Escherichia coli strain unable to synthesize thymine nucleotides into a chemically modified organism whose DNA genome is composed of adenine, cytosine, guanine, and an artificial base, the thymine analogue 5-chlorouracil. Evolving cells were initially observed as irregular filaments and progressively recovered the appearance of short rods typical of wild-type E. coli (see picture). http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/anie.201100535/abstract
Mung_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
09:05 PM
9
09
05
PM
PDT}

"you think a e-coli that does not demonstrate a gain in functional complexity above the parent strain in the native environment is fair how in proving your point??? " Your equation included function. The evolved strains function in their native, while the parental doesn't=0. Therefore, they are infinitely moe functionally complex. The rest of your answer is not germane to the discussion. Here is a article where bacteria gain antibiotic resistance without loss of fitness: "strains with low- or no-cost resistance mutations are also the most frequent among clinical isolates.” http://www.sciencemag.org/content/312/5782/1944.full In the corona of the sun, I would be blown to ions, with zero function or complexity. What don't you get about this? Do you breathe underwater?DrREC_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
09:03 PM
9
09
03
PM
PDT}

DrREC, and you think a e-coli that does not demonstrate a gain in functional complexity above the parent strain in the native environment is fair how in proving your point??? My reaction is to point out that the bacteria give every indication of being designed to 'detoxify' the earth to make it suitable for higher life forms and that once the 'anomalous' environment is detoxified, then the parent strain will always be more fit!!! Seeing that the earth has indeed been terra-formed by such bio-geochemical processes, and that thousands of bactie look exactly the same as they did hundreds of millions of years ago,I surely think my view is correct and hold your view to be an ideologically driven pipe dream!!! As well, you should provide the papers again for you 'gain' for if I remember correctly you mistook compensatory mutations for gain in functional complexity!!!bornagain77_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
08:50 PM
8
08
50
PM
PDT}

To clarify, I mean the first equation in Kirk Durston's video.DrREC_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
08:41 PM
8
08
41
PM
PDT}

bornagain77- E. coli is functionless in the final environment (dead), while CLU2, CLU4, and CLU5 survive in 5-chlorouracil. By that equation, they are infinitely more functionally complex than the parental. Evolution applies only to the environment selected in. Nevertheless, there are antibiotic resistant bacteria more fit than the parental strains, even in the absence of antibiotics. I have provided you the links to those papers previously. The quote from gpuccio is incoherent in this context.DrREC_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
08:40 PM
8
08
40
PM
PDT}

DrREC, here is the test to show a gain in functional complexity over and above what was already present: Is Antibiotic Resistance evidence for evolution? - 'The Fitness Test' - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3995248 ,,,and here is the equation for calculating a gain in functional information; Mathematically Defining Functional Information In Molecular Biology - Kirk Durston - short video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3995236 Entire video: http://vimeo.com/1775160 and this paper: Measuring the functional sequence complexity of proteins - Kirk K Durston, David KY Chiu, David L Abel and Jack T Trevors - 2007 Excerpt: We have extended Shannon uncertainty by incorporating the data variable with a functionality variable. The resulting measured unit, which we call Functional bit (Fit), is calculated from the sequence data jointly with the defined functionality variable. To demonstrate the relevance to functional bioinformatics, a method to measure functional sequence complexity was developed and applied to 35 protein families.,,, http://www.tbiomed.com/content/4/1/47 ============== here is a comment by gpuccio, who has been fairly heavily involved in calculating gains in functional complexity: antibody maturation could be an example of relevant information gain obtained by an intelligent algorithm incorporating specific target information (the antigen). Anyway, it is not certainly of the range of UPB (Universal Probability Bound). UPB is really an extreme value. It corresponds to about 115 AAs (if we consider a value of 1:10^150), and is IMO beyond the reach of any known adaptive response. However, it is probably not beyond the reach of some theorical intelligent system of protein engineering. A more practical biological limit for random systems could be set at 30-35 AAs. And you know very well that the empirical limit (always for random systems) is in the range of 3 – 10 AAs (at present, 3 seems a very good candidate). But intelligent search can operate true miracles. Adaptations in the active site, which are probably of the order of a few AAs, are certainly in the range of an intelligent search, even in the form of a targeted random search with intelligent selection based on active information, like in the case of antibody maturation.bornagain77_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
08:26 PM
8
08
26
PM
PDT}

bornagain77- The genomes of parental and evolved E. coli are sequenced. Please provide the equation for calculating "functional complexity", and show me how CLU2, CLU4, and CLU5 are less functionally complex than the parental strain.DrREC_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
08:03 PM
8
08
03
PM
PDT}

DrREC, since the change is not a gain in functional complexity over and above what was already present, do you think it is fair to call it 'evolution'? If so, why are you content to accept 'flexibility' of form as proof for the much grander claim when clearly such contentment is not warranted??bornagain77_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
07:57 PM
7
07
57
PM
PDT}

Nevertheless, a fascinating experiment in evolution.DrREC_{July 10, 2011
July
07
Jul
10
10
2011
07:43 PM
7
07
43
PM
PDT}

At Carl Zimmer's page I suggested a name: Mutatis mutandi based life!!!Enezio E. De Almeida Filho_{July 8, 2011
July
07
Jul
8
08
2011
12:26 PM
12
12
26
PM
PDT}

1 2 Next

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Leave a Reply