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UB Sets It Out Step-By-Step

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UD Editors:  No one has come close to refuting UB’s thesis after 129 comments.  We are moving this post to the top of the page to give the materialists another chance.

I take the following from an excellent comment UB made in a prior post.  UB lays out his argument step by step, precept by precept.  Then he arrives at a conclusion.  In order for his argument to be valid, the conclusion must follow from the premises.  In order for his argument to be sound, each of the premises must be true.

Now here is the challenge to our Darwinist friends.  If you disagree with UB’s conclusion, please demonstrate how his argument is either invalid (as a matter of logic the conclusion does not follow from the premises) or unsound (one or more of the premises are false).  Good luck (you’re going to need it).

Without further ado, here is UB’s argument:

1.  A representation is an arrangement of matter which evokes an effect within a system (e.g. written text, spoken words, pheromones, animal gestures, codes, sensory input, intracellular messengers, nucleotide sequences, etc, etc).

2.  It is not logically possible to transfer information (the form of a thing; a measured aspect, quality, or preference) in a material universe without using a representation instantiated in matter.

3.  If that is true, and it surely must be, then several other things must logically follow. If there is now an arrangement of matter which contains a representation of form as a consequence of its own material arrangement, then that arrangement must be necessarily arbitrary to the thing it represents. In other words, if one thing is to represent another thing within a system, then it must be separate from the thing it represents. And if it is separate from it, then it cannot be anything but materially arbitrary to it (i.e. they cannot be the same thing).

4.  If that is true, then the presence of that representation must present a material component to the system (which is reducible to physical law), while its arrangement presents an arbitrary component to the system (which is not reducible to physical law).

5.  If that is true, and again it surely must be, then there has to be something else which establishes the otherwise non-existent relationship between the representation and the effect it evokes within the system. In fact, this is the material basis of Francis Crick’s famous ‘adapter hypothesis’ in DNA, which lead to a revolution in the biological sciences. In a material universe, that something else must be a second arrangement of matter; coordinated to the first arrangement as well as to the effect it evokes.

6.  It then also follows that this second arrangement must produce its unambiguous function, not from the mere presence of the representation, but from its arrangement.  It is the arbitrary component of the representation which produces the function.

7.  And if those observations are true, then in order to actually transfer recorded information, two discrete arrangements of matter are inherently required by the process; and both of these objects must necessarily have a quality that extends beyond their mere material make-up. The first is a representation and the second is a protocol (a systematic, operational rule instantiated in matter) and together they function as a formal system. They are the irreducible complex core which is fundamentally required in order to transfer recorded information.

8.  During protein synthesis, a selected portion of DNA is first transcribed into mRNA, then matured and transported to the site of translation within the ribosome. This transcription process facilitates the input of information (the arbitrary component of the DNA sequence) into the system. The input of this arbitrary component functions to constrain the output, producing the polypeptides which demonstrate unambiguous function.

9.  From a causal standpoint, the arbitrary component of DNA is transcribed to mRNA, and those mRNA are then used to order tRNA molecules within the ribosome. Each stage of this transcription process is determined by the physical forces of pair bonding. Yet, which amino acid appears at the peptide binding site is not determined by pair bonding; it is determined  by the aaRS. In other words, which amino acid appears at the binding site is only evoked by the physical structure of the nucleic triplet, but is not determined by it. Instead, it is determined (in spatial and temporal isolation) by the physical structure of the aaRS. This is the point of translation; the point where the arbitrary component of the representation is allowed to evoke a response in a physically determined system – while preserving the arbitrary nature of the representation.

10.  This physical event, translation by a material protocol, as well as the transcription of a material representation, is ubiquitous in the transfer of recorded information.

CONCLUSION:  These two physical objects (the representation and protocol) along with the required preservation of the arbitrary component of the representation, and the production of unambiguous function from that arbitrary component, confirm that the transfer of recorded information in the genome is just like any other form of recorded information. It’s an arbitrary relationship instantiated in matter.

Comments
Mung, I hasten to think that Patti and Liz are the high point, but to answer your question - no. Dio and Kwok are standard-issue ideologues from the HuffPost and elsewhere. I just wanted to see how they reacted when they have to think.Upright BiPed
September 17, 2012
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So has TSZ finally sent over their best and their brightest to do intellectual battle? Or has it all been downhill ever since "MathGrrl" and Liddle?Mung
September 17, 2012
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And Allan Miller still thinks his imagination is evidence:
Of course, UB’s fundamental issue is that he cannot conceive of a mechanism by which ‘disorganised molecules’ can establish ‘the symbol system’. and the ‘information processing machinery’. I can.
It's settled then- science is done via imagination, evidence be damned...Joe
September 17, 2012
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...and bring John Kwok with you.Upright BiPed
September 17, 2012
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Diogenes, if this little piddle is supposed to represent your demolishing of ID, I would say you failed miserably. There's no need to run off claiming you haven't the time. Now that you've made an ass of yourself, come back and take the argument at face value. You can start by reading for context. You certainly blew it the first time around.Upright BiPed
September 17, 2012
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Diogenes,
My shadow represents me.
Your shadow doesn't represent you. Your shadow is simply the state of the ground with light either being blocked by you or not. For you shadow to "represent" you would first require someone to see it. It would require someone to know what a shadow was. It would require someone to know that a shadow could be cast on the ground. It would require someone to know that a shadow had a source. It would require someone to know that your body can block light, and that your body might be blocking that particular light. None of that is "in" your shadow. Moreover, when your shadow is seen, it is not then a shadow that is traveling through their optical nerve, its is a physically transcribed representation of that image that must be translated by a second arrangement of matter in their visual cortex. Your anthropocentric projection is a non-starter.
"My footprint..."
Same mistake.
Same goes for the genetic code– fixed by molecular interactions between random tRNA anti-codons and amino acid types. Fixed by physical laws.
The nucleic triplet is the source of the constraint in protein synthesis, and it is not only materially arbitrary to the effect it evokes in the system, but is also not reducible to physical law. It is a rate-independent causal structure which must evoke a response within the system through a temporally and spatially isolated protocol (which is does not and cannot physically interact with). This is not even controversial biology; people have won Nobel prizes demonstrating it.
Upright Biped invited me here to give him a hiding, it took me 45 seconds. That’s all I have time for, and all that’s needed to refute this ooga booga. You monkeys need to get over the evolution thing.
It took you 45 seconds to make two anthropocentric projections and fail a entry-level biology exam. Congratz.Upright BiPed
September 17, 2012
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Ugh, ooga booga. It's like talking to witch doctors. UB: If there is now an arrangement of matter which contains a representation of form as a consequence of its own material arrangement, then that arrangement must be necessarily arbitrary to the thing it represents. In other words, if one thing is to represent another thing within a system, then it must be separate from the thing it represents. And if it is separate from it, then it cannot be anything but materially arbitrary to it (i.e. they cannot be the same thing). No, the arrangement need not be "necessarily arbitrary" to the thing it represents. Me and my shadow. My shadow represents me. My footprint represents my foot. My fingerprint represents my finger. Not arbitrary-- required by physical laws. Same goes for the genetic code-- fixed by molecular interactions between random tRNA anti-codons and amino acid types. Fixed by physical laws. Upright Biped invited me here to give him a hiding, it took me 45 seconds. That's all I have time for, and all that's needed to refute this ooga booga. You monkeys need to get over the evolution thing.Diogenes
September 17, 2012
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By arbitrary, we do not mean random. We mean, "could have been otherwise" within the constraints of nature. - David L. Abel
To communicate a meaningful or functional message, first, we must arbitrarily assign an alphabet of usable symbols. Next, we must again arbitrarily assign meaning to letters or small groups of alphabetical characters, the equivalent of words. This is done according to arbitrarily defined rules, not constraints or laws. The rules are freely selectable, not constrained by physicodynamics. In short, symbol systems are entirely free, formal and cybernetic. Each choice of symbol represents a discrete unit of control - David L. Able, Editor, The First Gene
Does anyone have any idea why the folks over at TSZ think any of this for some reason needs to violate physical laws? Do spies violate physical laws when they come up with "secret codes"? Does SSH violate physical laws?Mung
September 17, 2012
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Fidelity of information transmission in biological systems and its (non)adaptive evolution
Evolution of life is fully based on digital information transmission processes - across generations via genome replication and from the genome to the effector molecules (RNA and proteins) ... - Eugene V. Koonin, The Logic of Chance: The Nature and Origin of Biological Evolution
Mung
September 17, 2012
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I see that Alan Fox has commented on my argument. He says he's not convinced, yet he is either mistaken in his understanding, or simply ignores what is known:
Interactions between molecules involve their chemical properties; charge, conformation, level of hydrophilic and lipophilic residues etc. Nothing analogous to language goes on here. I respectfully remain unconvinced of UB’s argument from incredulity.
Firstly, the relationship between the arrangement of matter that evokes the effect within the system must be (by necessity) arbitrary to the effect it evokes. It is just that - an arbitrary relationship. A purely material connection between these two things would lock the system into determinism and its function would immediately fail. Secondly, the arrangement of that matter which evokes the effect is not reducible to physical law; it exists entirely independent of the rate and exchange of energy. And it is that non-reducible arbitrary arrangement which constrains the output and creates biofunction. So his assumptions as to the physicality of the system are simply incorrect. I suggest reading relevant materials, the Physics of Symbols by physicist Howard Pattee would be a good place to start.Upright BiPed
September 17, 2012
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F/N: It seems that, a year after Dr Liddle was repeatedly and specifically corrected that the inference to design is after rejecting not one but TWO defaults, that is still being raised as an objection over at TSZ. That speaks volumes. Let's outline again, for those unable to understand a classic flowchart [even UML preserves a version of this . . .). 1: Step one, we examine an aspect of an object, phenomenon or process (in science we examine relevant aspects, it did not matter what colour they painted the pendulum bob in assessing its oscillations). 2: Observe enough to see whether we have low or high contingency, i.e. high variability on similar initial conditions. 3: Lawlike regularities lead to inference of mechanical necessity expressible in deterministic laws, like Kepler's laws of planetary motion, or the law of the simple pendulum with small swings. Or, the observation that dropped heavy objects reliably fall under g = 9.8 N/kg near earth's surface. 4: If an aspect shows high contingency, this is not reasonably explicable on such a law. 5: Thus, we have to look at the two known sources of high contingency, chance and design. For instance, a dropped die that tumbles and settles can be fair and showing a flat distribution across {1, 2, . . . 6} or it can be artfully loaded. (This example has been cited over and over for years, that it has not sunk in yet is utterly telling on closed mindedness.) 6: The presumed default on high contingency, is chance, showing itself in some typical stochastic distribution, as is say typical of the experimental scatter studied under the theory of errors in science. Dice show a flat distribution if they are fair. Wind speed often follows a Weibull distribution, and so forth. 7: Sampling theory tells us that when we observe such a distribution, we tend to reflect the bulk of the population, and that rare, special zones are unlikely to come up in a sample that is too small. This is the root of Fisherian hypothesis testing commonly used in statistical studies. (As in far tails are special rare zones so if you keep on hitting that zone, you are most likely NOT under a chance based sample. Loaded dice being a typical case in point: as you multiply the number of dice, the distribution tends to have a sharp peak in the middle and for instance, you are very unlikely to get 1,1,1, .. or all sixes etc. The flipped coin as a two sided die, is a classic studied under statistical mechanics.) 8: So, once we have a complex enough case that deeply isolates special zones, we are maximally unlikely to see such by chance. But, the likelihood of seeing such under loading or similar manipulation is a different proposition altogether. 9: WLOG, we may consider a long covered tray of 504 coins in a string with a scanner that reports the state when a button is pushed: )) -- || Tray of coins Black Box || --> 504 bit string 10: Under the chance hyp, with all but certainty, on the gamut of the solar system, we would find the coins with near 50:50 distribution H/T, in no particular order. 11: That is an all but certain expectation on the gamut of the solar system. 12: But if instead we found the first 72 ASCII characters of this post in the 504 bits, we would have strong reason to suspect IDOW as the best explanation. There is no good reason otherwise to see the highly contingent outcome in so isolated a functional state. 13: Thus, having rejected the two defaults, coins are highly contingent and chance is maximally unlikely per the relevant distribution to provide such an outcome with FSCO/I, we infer to design. 14: In short,t eh logic involved is not so difficult or dubious, it is glorified common sense, backed up by billions of examples that ground an inductive generalisation, and by the needle in the haystack analysis that shows why it is eminently reasonable. 15: What needs to be explained is not why inference to design is reasonable, on seeing FSCO/I. Instead, it is why this is so controversial, given the strength of the case. 16: The answer to that is plain: it cuts across a dominant ideology in our day, evolutionary materialism, which likes to dress itself up in the lab coat and to fly the flag of science. That, it seems, is the real problem KFkairosfocus
September 17, 2012
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“Are you stupid or just dishonest? “ Tonto:
That’s a tough call.
Yes, most likely you are both stupid and dishonest. At least that is the call we can make by reading your posts...Joe
September 16, 2012
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Toronto is just a clueless strawman setter:
– I give Joe his first reading lesson.
Sed the person who obvioulsy cannot read
A) You **can’t just** “count bits” for information. B) You **can’t** “count bits” for information.
When MEASURING information that is what you do, count the bits. And guess what? We were discussing MEASURING information. IOW tonto, YOU need a reading lesson and a brain to be able to decipher what you are reading. Ya see tonto, YOU don't get to change what we were discussing and then interject your strawman into that change. Are you stupid or just dishonest?Joe
September 16, 2012
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And even better- Alan Fox chimes in with more evidence-free pontificating. Note to Alan Fox- WE are waiting for KeithS to explain his "summary" line for line using Upright Biped's argument in this OP as a comparison. But unfortunately KeithS has not done so. But Alan amuses by not understanding the definition of "default". He thinks the design inference is the default even though it is reached via research, observations, knowledge and experiences. Being a default means you don't do any of that but Alan is just clueless. Also Alan, any fair observer would notice that you have never presented any positive evidence that blind and undirected processes can construct the current transcription and translation process. So you can rant and rave all you want, you still have nothing to support your position.Joe
September 16, 2012
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Toronto sets up yet another strawman:
* evolutionist: You can’t just “count bits” for information.
IDist: When you are measuring the amount of information you HAVE to count the number of bits.Joe
September 16, 2012
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From the OP:
It is not logically possible to transfer information (the form of a thing; a measured aspect, quality, or preference) in a material universe without using a representation instantiated in matter.
Chapter 2 of The Ontogeny of Information by Susan Oyama is in fact titled: The Origin and Transmission of Form: The Gene as the Vehicle of ConstancyMung
September 16, 2012
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Check out the title of Chapter 4 from the following book: Information: The New Language of Science 4. Counting Bits: The Scientific Measure of Information lolMung
September 16, 2012
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...and the first 1,000,000 bits in the value of Pi as calculated by our best and finest computers.
A perfect example of what I mentioned earlier. He's just told us how to compute the amount of information by counting the bits while at the same time denying it's possible to do so. LOL!Mung
September 16, 2012
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kf, Point taken. God BlessMung
September 16, 2012
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From the OP:
It is not logically possible to transfer information in a material universe without using a representation instantiated in matter.
Note how Upright BiPed's argument isn't even specific to the information processing system we find within the cell, though he often refers to it when speaking of observations (e.g., Marshall Nirenberg). However, for those who doubt: Information Theory and Molecular BiologyMung
September 16, 2012
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More from Shannon:
We have represented a discrete information source as a Markoff process. Can we define a quantity which will measure, in some sense, how much information is “produced” by such a process, or better, at what rate information is produced? Suppose we have a set of possible events whose probabilities of occurrence are p1,p2,...,pn. These probabilities are known but that is all we know concerning which event will occur. Can we find a measure of how much “choice” is involved in the selection of the event or of how uncertain we are of the outcome? If there is such a measure, say H(p1,p2,...,pn), it is reasonable to require of it the following properties:
Mung
September 16, 2012
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Joe:
It can be when one is attempting to MEASURE it.
Or should one desire to STORE it or even TRANSMIT it (communication) as, for example, sending text across the internet. This is what kills me about these people. They USE this stuff every day, it's there staring them in the face. They have to USE the very thing they deny in order to deny that they know what it is we are talking about. And then they REFUSE to discuss that fact.Mung
September 16, 2012
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As one starwman gets exposed toronto just erects another one: “Counting bits is the way to MEASURE the information. THAT is what we have been discussing-> MEASURING the information present. No one was talking abiout any “whole story”. toronto:
Alright then, let’s count the bits in “Pi is the relationship between a circle and its diameter” and the first 1,000,000 bits in the value of Pi as calculated by our best and finest computers.
What does that have to do with anything we have been discussing? Do you really think that just because you can pull something out of your arse and post it that it means something? Geesh- expose toronto and he has a hissy-fit...Joe
September 16, 2012
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The fundamental problem of communication is that of reproducing at one point either exactly or approximately a message selected at another point. Frequently the messages have meaning; that is they refer to or are correlated according to some system with certain physical or conceptual entities. These semantic aspects of communication are irrelevant to the engineering problem. The significant aspect is that the actual message is one selected from a set of possible messages. The system must be designed to operate for each possible selection, not just the one which will actually be chosen since this is unknown at the time of design. - Claude Shannon
Mung
September 16, 2012
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When it comes to how traffic lights function at an intersection too, the argument appears irrefutable.
1. A representation is an arrangement of matter which evokes an effect within a system (e.g. written text, spoken words, pheromones, animal gestures, codes, sensory input, intracellular messengers, nucleotide sequences, etc, etc).
In this case, red = stop, yellow = prepare to stop, green = go.
2. It is not logically possible to transfer information (the form of a thing; a measured aspect, quality, or preference) in a material universe without using a representation instantiated in matter.
At an intersection where vehicle traffic crosses in four directions, two sets of lights that can display these three colors are installed; one set pointing both directions along the x axis and one set pointing both directions along the y axis. While one set displays green for 45 seconds, the other set displays red. When the set displaying green changes to yellow for 3 seconds, the other continues to display red. When the set displaying yellow changes to red for 45 seconds, the set that was displaying red now displays green.
3. If that is true, and it surely must be, then several other things must logically follow. If there is now an arrangement of matter which contains a representation of form as a consequence of its own material arrangement, then that arrangement must be necessarily arbitrary to the thing it represents. In other words, if one thing is to represent another thing within a system, then it must be separate from the thing it represents. And if it is separate from it, then it cannot be anything but materially arbitrary to it (i.e. they cannot be the same thing).
I would say that it is self evident that lights displaying red, yellow, and green are arbitrary to and separate from vehicles which are stopped, preparing to stop, and going.
4. If that is true, then the presence of that representation must present a material component to the system (which is reducible to physical law), while its arrangement presents an arbitrary component to the system (which is not reducible to physical law).
How to make lights display red, yellow, and green is reducible to physical law. That red = stop, yellow = prepare to stop, and green = go is arbitrary. Obviously. Or perhaps I should say, "Duh..."
5. If that is true, and again it surely must be, then there has to be something else which establishes the otherwise non-existent relationship between the representation and the effect it evokes within the system. In fact, this is the material basis of Francis Crick’s famous ‘adapter hypothesis’ in DNA, which lead to a revolution in the biological sciences. In a material universe, that something else must be a second arrangement of matter; coordinated to the first arrangement as well as to the effect it evokes.
In a drivers license test, as an arrangement of matter that could be dubbed a wanna-be driver, go ahead and run a red light and see if you pass.
6. It then also follows that this second arrangement must produce its unambiguous function, not from the mere presence of the representation, but from its arrangement. It is the arbitrary component of the representation which produces the function.
Or dysfunction. Think, if all the lights got stuck on red. Or worse, on green...
7. And if those observations are true, then in order to actually transfer recorded information, two discrete arrangements of matter are inherently required by the process; and both of these objects must necessarily have a quality that extends beyond their mere material make-up. The first is a representation and the second is a protocol (a systematic, operational rule instantiated in matter) and together they function as a formal system. They are the irreducible complex core which is fundamentally required in order to transfer recorded information.
The representation of red = stop, yellow = prepare to stop, and green = go is made by the traffic lights, while the protocol has been instatiated in the gray matter of the licensed drivers' brains all the way from childhood storybooks through the licensing process itself.
8. During protein synthesis, a selected portion of DNA is first transcribed into mRNA, then matured and transported to the site of translation within the ribosome. This transcription process facilitates the input of information (the arbitrary component of the DNA sequence) into the system. The input of this arbitrary component functions to constrain the output, producing the polypeptides which demonstrate unambiguous function.
Likewise traffic signals produce the unambiguous function of traffic flow at an intersection.
9. From a causal standpoint, the arbitrary component of DNA is transcribed to mRNA, and those mRNA are then used to order tRNA molecules within the ribosome. Each stage of this transcription process is determined by the physical forces of pair bonding. Yet, which amino acid appears at the peptide binding site is not determined by pair bonding; it is determined by the aaRS. In other words, which amino acid appears at the binding site is only evoked by the physical structure of the nucleic triplet, but is not determined by it. Instead, it is determined (in spatial and temporal isolation) by the physical structure of the aaRS. This is the point of translation; the point where the arbitrary component of the representation is allowed to evoke a response in a physically determined system – while preserving the arbitrary nature of the representation.
This is also why drivers must be licensed! :D
10. This physical event, translation by a material protocol, as well as the transcription of a material representation, is ubiquitous in the transfer of recorded information.
"The light is red, Ethel! Hit the brakes!"
CONCLUSION: These two physical objects (the representation and protocol) along with the required preservation of the arbitrary component of the representation, and the production of unambiguous function from that arbitrary component, confirm that the transfer of recorded information in the genome is just like any other form of recorded information. It’s an arbitrary relationship instantiated in matter.
Fascinating, how the cosmos all fits together. Ain't it?jstanley01
September 16, 2012
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And a clueless toronto chimes in with another strawman:
When we’re talking about “information” in the real world, “counting bits” doesn’t tell the whole story.
Counting bits is the way to MEASURE the information. THAT is what we have been discussing-> MEASURING the information present. No one was talking abiout any "whole story".
Information is NOT simply something that can be modeled by mathematics or “counted as bits”.
It can be when one is attempting to MEASURE it. Toronto should apply his skepticism to his position. Unfortunately evos are too intellectually dishonest to even attempt such a thing.Joe
September 16, 2012
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PS: Those who may think it clever to play at school-yard level turnabout rhetoric games: we have a duty of care to warrant our views, and it is warrant that is the difference between opinion and knowledge. The above is well-warranted, twisting it into rhetorical pretzels simply shows willful ignorance (as is on display all along the length of this thread, on topics like, what is information and how is it measured, etc).kairosfocus
September 16, 2012
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Mung, Is there an understanding that we can count, do arithmetic and other logical or mathematical operations in base 2 not just base 10? Or, that a suitably structured and contextualised string of yes-no questions [1 bit per answer!] can rapidly converge to the specific member of a set that can be structured -- especially, ordered -- in accordance with comparatives? That, this is a way to measure information? In bits? Just count 'em up . . . [E.g. seven yes/no questions suffices to specify alphanumeric characters in textual English. Strings of such are used to communicate text. Augmented with parity checks and markup characters, and we have a representation of written language such as HTML etc. This should be basic but I am wondering whether anger-fed arrogant contempt is leading to a failure to transfer background knowledge to this situation. (Let us never underestimate the stupefying power of overgrown teenager rebellion turned against God in the teeth of a more sober assessment on that subject, aka atheism. I think there is a reason why various atheism dominated circles keep on pounding away at the design theory is creationism in a cheap tuxedo slander. In a significant part, it is a coded stimulus to psychologically evoke and manipulate the judgement-warping rage at God that so plainly cripples the thinking of a lot of people who should know and do better. Certainly, that was a strong underlying problem with a lot of Marxists; who also loved to fly the flag of "science" as an ideological banner -- scientific socialism, nothing less.)] That, similarly, we can reduce any arrangement of 3-D objects to a pattern of nodes and arcs connecting them? That a wireframe representation of an object at suitably fine mesh, is a nodes-arcs view? That a functionally specific arrangement of particular components can be reduced by this means to a suitable collection of strings? Where, strings are a data structure that is like a string with beads on it, the successive beads holding information-bearing values, such as t-h-e-s-e-_-l-e-t-t-e-r-s? That D/RNA is a string structure with 4-value places? {where ASCII code uses 128 value places for alphanumeric text, each being a sub-string of seven bits, e.g A = 100 0001, a = 110 0001 (the space being for convenience in reading) But if the likes of O/L-Petrushka-KeithS-TWT-LouFCD . . . et al refuse to be docile -- teachable -- before facts and logic, such lock themselves up in a Plato's Cave world of materialist shadow shows and intoxicating smoke of burning ad hominem soaked strawmen, confused for reality. And how sweet such intoxication can feel. But, it is a species of socio-psychologically induced collective irrationality or even outright deception and lunacy. AKA groupthink. That is why in part a greater teacher than any of us warned that if the "light" in us is darkness, our darkness is deep indeed. Resemblances to the presumptions and attitudes of the "brights" are NOT coincidental. KFkairosfocus
September 16, 2012
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Onlooker is either incredibly ignorant or incredibly obtuse. Either way, she's not credible.Mung
September 15, 2012
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The question of units must be discussed before proceeding. It has become customary, in information theory, to consider teh information I as a dimensionless quantity (a pure number), and hence the constant K is a pure number. The most convenient unit system is based on binary digits (abbreviated "bits"). - Leon Brillouin, Science and Information Theory
Mung
September 15, 2012
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