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Why Dawkins won’t debate Craig: “Look what happened to Atkins and Harris”

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In “Richard Dawkins’s Delicacy” (The Best Schools, October 21, 2011), James Barham comments on Dawkins’ refusal to debate William Lane Craig, and what it may portend:

Now, it is understandable that Dawkins should disdain to debate someone so far below his own celebrity star-power as Professor Craig. On the other hand, by that criterion, he really ought to limit himself to appearing with other bona fide media stars, like Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert (not that they would find much to disagree about).

If, however, Dawkins’s principal concern were the truth, as opposed to protecting his celebrity status, then he ought to jump at the chance to debate Craig. If modern science really has put the question of the existence of God to rest once and for all, then what better forum to get this across to the public than Oxford’s venerable Sheldonian Theatre next Tuesday? It really is a pity, because for many of us interested in the question of the existence of God, such a match-up would have the quality of a real clash of the titans.

Dawkins claimed Craig endorses genocide because of something he said about the Book of Deuteronomy (see here).

Now, I do not mean to defend the book of Deuteronomy, or even to defend Professor Craig’s defense of that recalcitrant book. But I do think it is a little rich that Dawkins should seize on Craig’s more or less unexceptionable exercise in Christian apologetics as a means of wriggling out of what had clearly become for him a very disagreeable situation.

I think the real reason for Dawkins’s refusal to debate Craig is plain enough to see. If you have any doubt on this point, I suggest you take a look at a couple of video clips from recent debates between Craig and the atheist apologists Peter Atkins (a former Oxford Professor of Chemistry) and Sam Harris.

Which he provides. And what happened to Peter Atkins and Sam Harris was grim.

Prediction: As long as Dawkins has his toff media and government TV in hand, he doesn’t need to debate anyone.

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Comments
Petrushka: Pardon, but you seem to need a lesson in context. Mr Dawkins began some 20 years ago by saying in effect that those who differed with him are ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked; which he has never taken back. After trashing believers in God as child abusers, etc etc, he just now has ducked debating with an informed philosopher-theologian challenging his notion -- this is the title of a bestselling book by Dawkins -- that God is a delusion. To excuse ducking the debate, he has now falsely accused Mr Craig of supporting genocide. (Dawkins MUST know that neither Mr Craig nor just about any Christian you care to name supports genocide.) THAT is the context in which the exchanges around this blog have developed over the past several days. In that context, when you toss around rhetorical live grenades, they are going to blow up on you. Which is where you are just now. If you are really serious about issues, you already have in hand a link that you can start reading from to see how Bible-believing Christians really think on the matter. (Notice the onward links to six discussions.) Otherwise, you are simply adding to a poisonous situation. Good day GEM of TKIkairosfocus
October 23, 2011
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Petrushka, It is clear that you only struggle with your own subjective notions of God and morality. You should try the logical approach and find some objective attributes of God and what morality is. Most of the discussions that you don't understand is simply because of this unwillingness to accept objective and well explored attributes of God.mullerpr
October 23, 2011
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I simply state that I don't understand. Nations have done all kinds of things in war, including obliterating cities. What I don't understand is the claim that it has anything to do with God.Petrushka
October 23, 2011
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Dr BOT, you plainly have not looked at the pevious thread closely enough, and you should take a look at the just below. Besides, a snide insinuation is even worse than an outright accusation, for it entails that the false accuser thinks the party being slandered is too stupid to spot the subtext. Have you ever been in the position of being asked, have you stopped beating your wife? That's just a question, right? It cannot be loaded with a snide insinuation, right? Good day GEM of TKIkairosfocus
October 23, 2011
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F/N: Asa in, remember the planes had maybe 50 innocent people on them, so if you shot them down, you were killing 50 innocent people. If you didn't when you could have, thousands might die. But, if you shot them down, that would not be evident, and if you did not shoot them down, the cry would be why you did not do anything to stop the mess. Remember, there was a whole commission of blame in any case. Then, put that sort of decision up a few million notches, and sit in the seat of God. What do you do, why.kairosfocus
October 23, 2011
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Petrushka: Please stop slandering people. You know, or should know that there is no-one in this thread who supports genocide. Nil, nada, zip zilch. Zero. No one. To falsely accuse people like this is itself outrageous and beyond the pale. The new atheists like Dawkins KNOW that people like Craig do not support genocide, but oh how easy it is to take an irresponsible reading of a text and snip someone out of context to play at gotcha, and guess what I therefore don't have to answer for decades of smearing people and misleading other people to join me in the smear. Ta da! Look, even fellow atheists are coming out and saying, something is very, very wrong here. If you are at all interested in a more reasonable reading of what is going on -- and right now your continued misbehaviour in the teeth of easily accessible correction makes me seriously doubt it, I suggest you may want to start here and deal with the very difficult issues that are on the table. Including: how do you deal with a blood feud where nigh on 1,000 years later, someone wants to wipe out your entire nation on the flimsiest of excuses. (That is what Queen Esther faced at the hands of the Prime Minister of Persia.) (And in case you think this blood feud mentality is a dead issue, that is exactly the problem we are having with the IslamISTS -- as opposed to ordinary people who seek to serve God in the Islamic tradition -- today. As in, in their eyes any random Westerner is to blame for the sins of Christendom, real or imaginary, and can be taken hostage and used as a part of a plane being used as a missile targetted at buildings full of ordinary people going about the ordinary business of life. And, what would you have said if plane no 4 or another one had actually been shot or rammed down, as Mr Cheney said on the night of 9/11. If you cannot satisfactorily answer these sorts of issues, please stop playing at slanderous gotcha games.) Let me be pretty direct: to falsely and willfully accuse people of something heinous is to lie, Petrushka. And that, sadly, is what you just did. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is what is now on the table, from your side. Think about that. Think, seriously, about the matches you are playing with. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
October 23, 2011
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I have see several people appear to support genocide on this thread. I'm looking for some reason to believe I'm mistaken. I certainly don't understand the argument that genocide is justified if one group needs the land occupied by another. I certainly don't understand the argument the genocide is justified if some people are evil. I don't understand the argument that genocide is justified if some people in a society suffer unjustly. I don't understand the claim that God ordered genocide. I suspect that priests or some other authorities may have said that God ordered genocide, but I suspect that these would be the statements of humans and not the orders of God. I simply don't understand why anyone would believe that God ordered genocide. Or, if it is true that God ordered genocide, why anyone would consider this deity worthy of respect.Petrushka
October 23, 2011
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Voting Results: Bill Craig and Peter Williams vs Andrew Copson and Arif Ahmed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNJhfirAZI0bornagain77
October 23, 2011
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Wow, I knew that Darwinism and racism were connected but I was ignorant with respect to Darwin. His last years were terrible ones. Allegedly, he suffered from a psychiatric condition.Eugene S
October 23, 2011
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Perhaps I should yell 'LIAR' 'SLANDERER' at you. I haven't observed anyone, atheist of not, stating 'you Christians support genocide' on UD. Perhaps I missed it, can you point me to a specific example of someone accusing all Christendom of advocating genocide? This looks to me like a false — and known false — accusation by you KF.DrBot
October 23, 2011
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Onlookers: I have taken time to address the "you Christians support genocide" false -- and known false -- accusation that now seems to be in favour for the New Atheists, here. (Work in progress but I think it is sufficient to help those who are struggling with the real problem.) GEM of TKIkairosfocus
October 23, 2011
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It is ironic that Dawkins chose Craigs alleged support of genocide as his fallacious reason to avoid a debate. Darwin stated: "We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed." (Charles Darwin (1871) The Descent of Man, 1st edition, pages 168 -169) Writings such as this, by Darwin, inspired and provided "scientific" justification for what would become the modern eugenics movement. Darwins cousing, Francis Galton, coined the term "eugenics" and went on to become the first chairman of the British Eugenics Society, which he founded. His successor, one Leonard Darwin (Charles Darwins son) would eagerly succeed Galton as Chairman of The Society for nearly two decades, while writing books such as "The Need For Eugenic Reform", which he credited to his father. The rest is history.Alan
October 22, 2011
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Dawkins' attempt to justify his cowardly refusal to debate Craig is pathetic. He feigns righteous indignation at Craig all the while his fellow atheist Michael Ruse stated in his review of "What Darwin Got Wrong": At the beginning of their book, they (the authors) proudly claim to be atheists. Perhaps so. But my suspicion is that, like those scorned Christians, Fodor and Piattelli-Palmarini just cannot stomach the idea that humans might just be organisms, no better than the rest of the living world. We have to be special, superior to other denizens of Planet Earth. So, in light of that, I wonder if Dawkins is against people taking antibiotics and killing billions of bacteria? According to atheist Ruse, humans are not superior to bacteria...so it must be equally wrong to kill them as it is to kill humans. Poor Dawkins...does he really think he's fooling anyone? ;-)Blue_Savannah
October 22, 2011
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corrected link: http://www.premier.org.uk/unbelievablebornagain77
October 22, 2011
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Atheist Stephen Law used the argument from evil and, likewise, did not fair well at all facing William Lane Craig: Unbelievable? 18 October 2011 - William Lane Craig vs Stephen Law - Does God Exist? - radio podcast http://www.premierradio.org.uk/listen/ondemand.aspx?mediaid={D0EA6EB1-86E3-41FB-8CA9-F78B126F6416}bornagain77
October 22, 2011
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Does anyone else find it ironic that Richard Dawkins refuses to debate someone because they defend the idea of eliminating one gene pool for the sake of another?Waynekent00
October 22, 2011
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