Doctor Ivette Lozano from Dallas, Texas on treating patients with HCQ Cocktails

_{kairosfocus

May 18, 2020

Defending our Civilization, Medicine, News Highlights, rhetoric, Sci-Tech watch}

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https://youtu.be/coyfWpwxedQ

Food for thought.

U/D: When it reaches the pharmacy . . .

U/D May 19, another Lozano interview:

And, oh yes, breaking 1: Mr Trump is praising — yes, I am NOT using, “touting” — a promising vaccination. Announcement by the firm, here.

Breaking, no 2, courtesy Daily Mail as usual:

Of course, the now standard, it’s risky is in the subheads.

U/D: Video:

Compare our Texas Doctor’s remarks. And then, there is the latest from Dr Raoult:

Whose report do you believe, why? END

Comments

Let’s pray this result isnt true for Coronavirus.... Human coronavirus reinfection dynamics: lessons for SARS-CoV-2 n the current SARS-CoV-2 pandemic a key unsolved question is the quality and duration of acquired immunity in recovered individuals. This is crucial to solve, however SARS-CoV-2 has circulated for under five months, precluding a direct study. We therefore monitored 10 subjects over a time span of 35 years (1985-2020), providing a total of 2473 follow up person-months, and determined a) their antibody levels following infection by any of the four seasonal human coronaviruses, and b) the time period after which reinfections by the same virus can occur. An alarmingly short duration of protective immunity to coronaviruses was found by both analyses. We saw frequent reinfections at 12 months post-infection and a substantial reduction in antibody levels as soon as 6 months post-infection. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341467148_Human_coronavirus_reinfection_dynamics_lessons_for_SARS-CoV-2rhampton7_{May 25, 2020
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“those middle-aged adults who go to church, synagogues, mosques or other houses of worship reduce their mortality risk by 55%.”
Can attending church really help you live longer? This study says yes – June 1, 2017 Excerpt: Specifically, the study says those middle-aged adults who go to church, synagogues, mosques or other houses of worship reduce their mortality risk by 55%. The Plos One journal published the “Church Attendance, Allostatic Load and Mortality in Middle Aged Adults” study May 16. “For those who did not attend church at all, they were twice as likely to die prematurely than those who did who attended church at some point over the last year,” Bruce said. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/06/02/can-attending-church-really-help-you-live-longer-study-says-yes/364375001/ Study: Religiously affiliated people lived “9.45 and 5.64 years longer…” July 1, 2018 Excerpt: Self-reported religious service attendance has been linked with longevity. However, previous work has largely relied on self-report data and volunteer samples. Here, mention of a religious affiliation in obituaries was analyzed as an alternative measure of religiosity. In two samples (N = 505 from Des Moines, IA, and N = 1,096 from 42 U.S. cities), the religiously affiliated lived 9.45 and 5.64 years longer, respectively, than the nonreligiously affiliated. Additionally, social integration and volunteerism partially mediated the religion–longevity relation. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/study-religiously-affiliated-people-lived-religiously-affiliated-lived-9-45-and-5-64-years-longer/ Can Religion Extend Your Life? - By Chuck Dinerstein — June 16, 2018 Excerpt: The researcher's regression analysis suggested that the effect of volunteering and participation accounted for 20% or 1 year of the impact, while religious affiliation accounted for the remaining four years or 80%. https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/06/16/can-religion-extend-your-life-13092 Atheism and health A meta-analysis of all studies, both published and unpublished, relating to religious involvement and longevity was carried out in 2000. Forty-two studies were included, involving some 126,000 subjects. Active religious involvement increased the chance of living longer by some 29%, and participation in public religious practices, such as church attendance, increased the chance of living longer by 43%.[4][5] http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_health “I maintain that whatever else faith may be, it cannot be a delusion. The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry and medicine generally. If the findings of the huge volume of research on this topic had gone in the opposite direction and it had been found that religion damages your mental health, it would have been front-page news in every newspaper in the land.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health - preface https://books.google.com/books?id=PREdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PR11#v=onepage&q&f=false “In the majority of studies, religious involvement is correlated with well-being, happiness and life satisfaction; hope and optimism; purpose and meaning in life; higher self-esteem; better adaptation to bereavement; greater social support and less loneliness; lower rates of depression and faster recovery from depression; lower rates of suicide and fewer positive attitudes towards suicide; less anxiety; less psychosis and fewer psychotic tendencies; lower rates of alcohol and drug use and abuse; less delinquency and criminal activity; greater marital stability and satisfaction… We concluded that for the vast majority of people the apparent benefits of devout belief and practice probably outweigh the risks.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health – page 100 https://books.google.com/books?id=PREdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA100#v=onepage&q&f=false Of snakebites and suicide - February 18, 2014 RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/of-snakebites-and-suicide/
bornagain77_{May 25, 2020
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The North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services is reporting the highest number of hospitalizations so far in the pandemic. Currently, 627 people are hospitalized in the state due to complications from COVID-19. That’s up 40 from Sunday. Still, 28 percent of inpatient beds and 22 percent of ICU beds in the state are available. An additional 742 cases were reported on Monday, bringing the total to 23,964. https://www.wwaytv3.com/2020/05/25/nc-sees-highest-number-of-hospitalizations-since-start-of-the-pandemic-as-state-enters-first-full-week-of-phase-2/rhampton7_{May 25, 2020
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Mendocino County (CA) public health officials said Sunday that six more people who participated in a Mother’s Day service at Assembly of God Church in Redwood Valley contracted the virus, raising the number of cases to nine and making the outbreak responsible for a third of local infections. Meanwhile, Butte County health officials said two of 180 people who attended a Mother’s Day church service in Oroville have tested positive for COVID-19. They said a recent spike in local cases, mostly in the Oroville area, indicate increased community spread. https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/california/2-church-services-sources-of-virus-outbreaks-officials/2296360/rhampton7_{May 25, 2020
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Seven members of Evangelical Ebenezer’s congregation have tested positive; all members of the congregation are aware of their exposure, and are currently being contacted for testing. All members of the congregation have also been given instructions to quarantine until they receive a negative test result; those who test positive will be given isolation orders for 14 days. In addition, church leadership has been provided disinfection guidance. This brings Macon County (NC) to a total of 16 positive cases: 13 active, 2 recovered, and 1 death. MCPH is working to identify additional close contacts of these individuals. The CDC defines close contact asbeing within approximately 6 feet of a person with an infection with COVID-19 case for a prolonged period oftime of 10 minutes or longer. https://smokymountainnews.com/news/item/29158-covid-19-cluster-identified-in-macon-churchrhampton7_{May 25, 2020
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MONTGOMERY, Ala. (WSFA) - Over the last two to three weeks, hospitals in Montgomery have seen an alarming number of COVID-19 patients come through their doors. “We’ve really seen an influx of patients with COVID-19 over the past two to three weeks,” said Dr. Lisa Williams, a Pulmonary Critical Care Specialist at Baptist Medical Center South. “Our ICU beds are full. We’ve been having a lot of overflow in the ICU.” Williams said she has never seen this many patients coming into their hospital in such a short period of time. https://www.wsfa.com/2020/05/25/doctor-baptist-south-out-icu-beds-er-treating-patient-overflow/rhampton7_{May 25, 2020
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Are diagnostic tools to do this available?
Most definitely. Most C19 people exhibit a progression of symptoms from none to pneumonia and difficulty breathing symptoms. There are other symptoms in between which generally indicate a progression to the more severe symptoms. If they have no symptoms, then they are let go and no one will test them even though they have the virus especially if they are in the low risk group. Zelenko defines the low risk group as anyone under 60 with no comorbidities. If they are older and have no symptoms then they are also not tested. The next group are those that have mild symptoms such as a cough and a fever but are otherwise robust. They are also not tested and not treated if they are in the low risk group because most defeat the virus. In the high risk group they will be given the treatment if they have additional symptoms such as difficulty breathing and will be tested. Otherwise they will be monitored to see how they progress. All on an out patient basis. If they have mild but have more severe cough and fever and shortness of breath, they will be given the treatment immediately. Usually this relieves the symptoms in a short time. Zelenko would diagnose his patients clinically and test as best as he could but tests were limited and took 3 days to get back. So he prescribed the treatment that cost less than $10. Nearly everyone recovered and only 4 out 1500 needed hospitalization though 2/3 of these 1500 were low risk. I believe 4 went to the hospital and two died. He has not posted any recent statistics and has been busy classifying every patient based on anti bodies as to whether they had the virus. He is preparing his stats for publication. In most doctors offices, when one is diagnosed, they will not be given any treatment. If they don't recover then they will eventually be hospitalized when there usually be no treatments either against the virus but amelioration of symptoms only. As we have seen, a small percentage of hospitalizations were given HCQ or some combination at this stage with no marked improvement. Those given zinc in addition had a higher chance of survival. A good doctor will have no problem identifying someone who is likely to have the virus and then prescribe the treatment at an early stage. The treatment is inexpensive and With a little effort enough for the world could be produced. The treatment are pills that cost a penny or two to produce in bulk. It also appears that about a third of the people may carry an anti-body to the virus from previous exposures to other corona viruses which is why many are not affected. MedCram investigated that today,. Too early to tell anything here. All this should be common knowledge if one had been following the discussions.jerry_{May 25, 2020
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EG, I suggest you see my just now remark to BO'H. Jerry at 247 may also help. KFkairosfocus_{May 25, 2020
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BO'H: it is impossible to do a PCR test on the entire population, much less every five to fourteen days. Accordingly, the feasible option is to identify the symptomatic and vulnerable groups, then treat early. Testing seems to have somewhat of a speed/accuracy tradeoff. In that context, the cluster of effective treatments can significantly reduce hospitalisation for severe progress of the disease while immune systems defeat the virus. Long run, there may be a vaccine but as RNA viruses almost by definition rapidly mutate, I would not bet the farm on that. In the yet longer term, milder strains will likely outcompete the more aggressive ones and we will have another form of the common cold. In the meanwhile follow-on waves are to be expected. We may be dealing with this disease in fairly aggressive forms for a few years, judging by past pandemics. KFkairosfocus_{May 25, 2020
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People who are asymptomatic are by definition not at risk. Most will be that way.
But how do you distinguish between those and those who will later develop a more severe disease? Are diagnostic tools to do this available?Bob O'H_{May 25, 2020
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Then you fall into the same trap that KF has fallen into. If the treatment is required very early in its infection process now you must have a means of identifying these people
You have just demonstrated that you don’t understand the virus and its progression. Maybe you should read more before commenting. There is no problem identifying people at risk or then treating them at early stages. There is more than enough resources for the entire world. And the some. There’s also other combinations of treatments at latter stages after hospitalization to help. But the objective is to avoid hospitalization. People who are asymptomatic are by definition not at risk. Most will be that way.jerry_{May 25, 2020
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Jerry
The main reason for this is the fake new narratives put out by much of the world press especially the US press. If the country had followed the protocol of Zelenko and Trump, probably most of these people would be alive and so would most of those who died around the world.
Then you fall into the same trap that KF has fallen into. If the treatment is required very early in its infection process now you must have a means of identifying these people. Most people are asymptomatic in these very early stages and don't seek medical help. Add to this the fact that we do not have enough testing capacity to test even a low percentage of the population. You may be able to ramp up production of the test kits but you still have the limiting factors of qualified people to take the swabs and qualified people to perform the tests. Trump can't just snap his fingers and increase the number of qualified medical personnel. In spite of throwing huge amounts of resources at the testing issue, the US has tested less than 5% of the population in three months. If HCQ only works at very early stages, which appears to be the last refuge for those touting its curative powers, we must have an effective means of identifying the vast majority of infections at this early stage. We don't have that. The only fallback, therefore, would be to prescribe it to everyone as a prophylactic. To do this safely, weeding out those with conditions that would make taking it dangerous, would require the resources necessary to take take and interpret medical histories for everyone. Resources that we do not have. Not to mention the fact that there is already a shortage of HCQ, and that people would have to continue to take HCQ until the virus disappears, or a vaccine is found.Ed George_{May 25, 2020
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Obviously a down trend reflects that people get sick, get worse and may die, the up trend being if they recover.
oh, so you are just saying that people get worse, and then if they survive they get better! Why didn't you simply answer that yes, that's what you meant when I asked? it would have cleared things up straight away, without me puzzling about what you were trying to say, and what the relevance of the meaning of a Halls of residence was.
The more interesting issues have to do with what drives turning points and what can force an early upturn.
OK, so you're saying what's interesting is why some people recover and others don't. I agree.Bob O'H_{May 25, 2020
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BO'H, if you cannot make sense out of what I said already, I can do little to help you. Obviously a down trend reflects that people get sick, get worse and may die, the up trend being if they recover. The more interesting issues have to do with what drives turning points and what can force an early upturn. KFkairosfocus_{May 25, 2020
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kf @ 239, 240 - Now you've got that out of your system, I'll repeat my question
Trend in what? Are you just saying that people get worse, and then if they survive they get better?
You could just answer "yes" or "no" to the second question, and then I'll understand what you're on about.Bob O'H_{May 25, 2020
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Sadly, it looks like the US will hit 100,000 COVID-19 deaths tomorrow. Not quite the Memorial Day anyone wanted to see.
The main reason for this is the fake new narratives put out by much of the world press especially the US press. If the country had followed the protocol of Zelenko and Trump, probably most of these people would be alive and so would most of those who died around the world.jerry_{May 25, 2020
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Kf, Bob O’H has revealed that he understands little about this virus, has read little about it, reads few if any links provided and just repeats fake negative news he found someplace. It is similar with others here.jerry_{May 25, 2020
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BO'H: but, isn't a graphic picture using a familiar shape not notoriously a very effective way to communicate a trend line, inviting a more dynamics-driven, causal factor oriented understanding . . . with turning points highlighted? Or, is that too right brained a way of thinking? KF PS: At more sophisticated level, disease process modelling https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40495-016-0066-xkairosfocus_{May 25, 2020
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BO'H: It has been on the table here for many weeks, that Pharmacology is the study of poisons in small doses. That phrase was the standard introduction by a notorious prof in Med in my Uni, we used to spot that first lecture in Hall of Residence [not, "dorm" . . . more like Fraternity] by the subdued mood of bright and shiny new med students (just like the shock of their first Anatomy lab). In effect, EVERY drug is toxic . . . and so is "every" spice and so are surprisingly many foods (e.g. Jamaica's Ackees, half of the National Dish) . . . so the issue is immediate and cumulative dosage and somatic load. Hence, dangers of fat soluble active factors like THC in ganja and hence cumulative lead poisoning. Hence, too, drink plenty fluids. Yes, HCQ is toxic and yes by their very name antibiotics are literally "against life." The issue is balanced management so we gain benefits as early as possible in the U process, promoting early recovery before more damaging and potentially catastrophic phases set in. That process requires expert intervention and supervision, hence the well-known role of a licensed physician. I am disappointed but not surprised to see the way toxicity of HCQ cocktails is being spun by the agenda-driven media and such like, exploiting failure to understand significance of where one is along the disease U. KFkairosfocus_{May 25, 2020
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BO’H, pardon but the U model has been on the table for weeks here at UD.
I'm sorry, but this was the first I had seen of it.
The idea is that a fast-mover disease like this triggers a U-shaped trend (with a potentially catastrophic descending arm), where the crisis is the bend.
Trend in what? Are you just saying that people get worse, and then if they survive they get better?Bob O'H_{May 25, 2020
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BO'H, pardon but the U model has been on the table for weeks here at UD. The idea is that a fast-mover disease like this triggers a U-shaped trend (with a potentially catastrophic descending arm), where the crisis is the bend. Those who fail to make it, unfortunately die . . . a reverse J as the rising arm has been frustrated. Recovery then takes an onward period so recovery statistics lag death statistics, part of the epidemiologist's headaches. Of course, relapses can move us to a W . . . double U . . . etc. So, we have a simple descriptive model of the trend of such an illness. [This is similar to the plucking model of recession in economics.] The stitch in time factor is, to hit the process early in the descending arm, so the U is shallow; you will probably recall the question of building up one's "resistance" to colds, Flu and the like. In the context of Ivermectin, its preliminary indication is that it can help to pluck back up from further down the descending arm. And of course hospitalisation is an index of being fairly far down the arm, ICU being a yet worse sign. Intubation and Ventilation are grim signs. KFkairosfocus_{May 25, 2020
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Jeery @ 226 - Thanks. I wondered if it was something like that. But, as you point out, most people in the early stages have mild symptoms, and they won't get worse. As you know, HCQ has side effects, and can be fatal (as the Lancet paper shows). I don't know if the side effects will be as bad in milder cases, but isn't it something to be worried about? If you give a treatment with fatal side effects to people who won't need it?Bob O'H_{May 25, 2020
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EG, first, EVERY doctor in the world is trained in a standardised, global diagnostic system originally developed in C19 - 20. In turn, that rests on longstanding inductive inference on signs [think, Hippocrates of Cos, yes, that far back]. You will doubtless recall the standard profiling that is taken down by nurses and by the physician maintaining a file, and how blood pressure, heart rate and the like are commonly taken. In turn, that rests on the principle of identity, here, for the human being influenced by an internalised alien agent triggering a disease process. Such is here influenced by a known context of pandemic, which dramatically shifts priors in conditional probabilities. What Jerry describes is eminently feasible, from early phases; indeed frontline physicians have been highlighting key clusters of symptoms and signs. In the pandemic context, such then point to locus and trajectory relative to the U, hence indications on best action. Over-dependence on lab tests as gold standard -- here we go yet again -- is not a healthy sign. Further to this, the evidence is that early intervention with a cocktail makes a difference; and we have preliminary results noted above pointing to things that reach further down the descending leg of the U. Jerry indicates that modification with OTC supplements is an option for civilians trying to fortify their basic resistance. Sanitisers, personal protection, distancing and in case of highly vulnerable, isolation can make a difference. KF PS: The US is indeed going across one of the magic numbers that can have considerable rhetorical impact; which will predictably be exploited and trumpeted. My perception on such is modified forever by the comparison of a cluster of countries in Europe. Also, by recognition that perhaps 2/5 is in the Hudson River estuary zone and neighbouring areas, with a strongly intersecting 2/5 being nursing home residents. Which was manifest from the very first headlined cluster in was it Washington State. Once pandemic broke out of Wuhan and set up lodgements, grim consequences were sure to follow especially in densely populated urban zones, of which the Hudson River bay zone is one of the biggest in the world. The issue then became a race between epidemic and implied deaths from isolation and its damaging economic and social impacts, leading to the dismal calculus of minimising deaths. In that calculus, painful errors are inevitable, the key test is responsiveness and learning. Onward, the expectation is a series of further waves, hopefully we can manage them better.kairosfocus_{May 25, 2020
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kf @ 219 -
Bo’H, late stage is far down the U descending leg.
This is utterly meaningless, because "U descending leg" is meaningless unless you explain what the "U descending leg" is. Are you able to explain it without jargon?Bob O'H_{May 25, 2020
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Sadly, it looks like the US will hit 100,000 COVID-19 deaths tomorrow. Not quite the Memorial Day anyone wanted to see.Ed George_{May 24, 2020
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KF
kindly note the above.
Sorry, but if mass produced tests are limited, what do you think the limitations are associated with skilled diagnosticians? How many are there in the US? How many people can they see a day. You recently posted an excellent OP on scale within the solar system but are completely blind to scale within society. The US has 337,000,000+ people and 335,700 clinical lab technicians. And with this number they are stretched beyond capacity because of COVID-19 (obviously Not all are trained on COVID-19 testing protocol). And you are suggesting that testing isn’t necessarily required, that skilled diagnosticians can diagnose COVID-19 with a high degree of accuracy, without testing. And I accept this as true. But if the 335,700 technicians aren’t sufficient using a test that only takes minutes of manpower, how are the 9,000 infectious disease doctors in the US (not all qualified for corona viruses) going to fill in this gap?Ed George_{May 24, 2020
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Operations have been halted at the world's deepest operational mine after more than one-quarter of COVID-19 tests given to those who work there produced positive results. AngloGold Ashanti said Sunday that it had stopped work at the Mponeng gold mine in South Africa after learning of the 650 tests it has administered since May 14, 164 were positive and "a handful" have yet to be processed. The "vast majority" of those who tested positive had not shown any symptoms of COVID-19, the company said. Contract tracing has been taking place through data from an electronic tracking system normally used to locate miners who go missing.Ed George_{May 24, 2020
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RH7, I now think masks are complicated, especially as significant numbers struggle to breathe right in them for hours on end day by day. I think that that struggle is cumulative and may be debilitating. For sure, hard physical work becomes more challenging. KFkairosfocus_{May 24, 2020
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Jerry, thanks. I add, Zelenko reported that clinical diagnosis on key signs was about 90% right. EG, kindly note the above. Such has been discussed in fair detail across weeks. Now, set in the context of the U model, which BTW implies a crisis of life and death as things head down. A familiar, grim pattern. KFkairosfocus_{May 24, 2020
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If the HCQ treatment must be used at very early stages, how do you identify the people with new infections?
This indicates that you have not been reading or looking at links provided. Zelenko went over in detail what he has done. He would test as best as he could because tests were limited and took 3 days to get results. But he would diagnose clinically everyone who showed symptoms as well as test those in what he called the high risk group. He divided the population into two groups, high risks which was anyone over 60 or younger than 60 with a comorbidity such as diabetes or heart problem. He would also classify as high risk anyone showing symptoms such as shortness of breath. For the low risk patients he would send them home with instructions to monitor themselves and report back any worsening. Thus, he over diagnosed but since his treatment was very inexpensive and harmless, there was nothing lost. His last reported figures were out of over 400+ confirmed with C19 there has been 2 deaths and four hospitalizations, since released and two intubations both of which came off of it. There is no need to test everyone but those in the high risk category who have symptoms. It is not hard to get a test these days if you have a prescription and some come back in a. couple hours. So diagnosing early is most definitely possible and not an issue. The object is to not get to the hospital and Zelenko has done that almost 100% with his patients. So these tests done in hospitals are invalid for evaluating HCQ as a treatment in early stages. I suggest you watch the MedCram videos to learn about the virus and some of Zelenko's videos are still up in places. Google has made it their policy to remove anything to do with zinc. They even took down one of MedCram's videos on zinc. It's one of the top medical sites in the world. Here is a podcast interview with Zelenko that Google could not take down https://bit.ly/2XrYwlLjerry_{May 24, 2020
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