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Dr Zelenko on Israel National News, May 21, 2020 — forthcoming paper ~ two weeks?

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Dr Zelenko expects to be in publication along with some German colleagues, in about two weeks. In the following video (pardon quality issues):

. . . he asks, in effect, isn’t it standard to treat a disease as early as possible, so why the strange difference here? He makes a comparison to how a fire can flash over into a much more dangerous stage and notes how much easier it is to hit it while it is small. He expresses a measure of anger with medical and political establishments, /do allow for that.

He identifies that by the time people are at a Doctor’s office they are likely to be about day 5 in the disease process, on the verge of an explosion in viral load with attendant damage to the body.

He estimates turnaround time at about 3 days on tests, thus if you wait you likely have had serious damage due to explosion in viral load with attendant cell destruction to produce those viruses; linked doubtless, is immune response which can spin out of control in a potentially fatal cytokine storm.

He points to manageable toxicity and safety then suggests, go on the drug cocktail, then pull back if there is no need.

An implication of his discussion is what we may call the U-model of such a disease as this. As came up in a current UD thread:

The idea is that a fast-mover disease like this triggers a U-shaped trend (with a potentially catastrophic descending arm), where the crisis is the bend. Those who fail to make it, unfortunately die . . . a reverse J as the rising arm has been frustrated. Recovery then takes an onward period so recovery statistics lag death statistics, part of the epidemiologist’s headaches. Of course, relapses can move us to a W . . . double U . . . etc. So, we have a simple descriptive model of the trend of such an illness. [This is similar to the plucking model of recession in economics.] The stitch in time factor is, to hit the process early in the descending arm, so the U is shallow; you will probably recall the question of building up one’s “resistance” to colds, Flu and the like. In the context of Ivermectin, its preliminary indication is that it can help to pluck back up from further down the descending arm. And of course hospitalisation is an index of being fairly far down the arm, ICU being a yet worse sign. Intubation and Ventilation are grim signs.

While we wait on his announced publication, we may wish to discuss. END

PS: An interesting second vid comes from India, courtesy Tech for Luddites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8HtWHAr9rI

PPS: Here is the screen clip, June 3rd:

Screenshot from Twitter
Comments
Researchers at Hackensack Meridian Health group saw no difference in the survival among intensive care patients with COVID-19 who were given the controversial drug hydroxychloroquine. Researchers administered the malaria drug — touted by President Donald Trump as a cure for the novel coronavirus — to 2,512 hospitalized patients with COVID-19, according to the announcement. Among those involved in the study, 76 percent received at least one dose of hydroxychloroquine and 59 percent received a combination of hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic, https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/coronavirus/2020/05/27/coronavirus-nj-no-hydroxychloroquine-efficacy-new-drug-shows-promise/5270475002/rhampton7
May 28, 2020
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Jerry did you see this yet?
Thank you! Maybe we should get some of our HCQ deniers to tell us why the study is no good. I am sure they can find some nitpicks. By the way I thought the most interesting thing in the videos in the OP is the reference to China finding that lupus users seemed to be immune to the virus.jerry
May 28, 2020
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Jerry did you see this yet?
COVID-IHU # 15 Version 1 of May 27, 2020 Early diagnosis and management of COVID-19 patients: a real-life cohort study of 3,737 patients, Marseille, France - Didier Raoult and company - May 27, 2020 Results: By testing 101,522 samples by polymerase chain reaction (PCR) from 65,993 individuals, we diagnosed 6,836 patients (10.4%), including 3,737 included in our cohort. The mean age was 45 (sd 17) years, 45% were male, and the fatality rate was 0.9%. We performed 2,065 low-dose computed tomography (CT) scans highlighting lung lesions in 581 of the 933 (62%) patients with minimal clinical symptoms (NEWS score = 0). A discrepancy between spontaneous dyspnoea, hypoxemia and lung lesions was observed. Clinical factors (age, comorbidities, NEWS-2 score), biological factors (lymphopenia; eosinopenia; decrease in blood zinc; and increase in D-dimers, lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), creatinine phosphokinase (CPK), and c-reactive protein (CRP)) and moderate and severe lesions detected in low-dose CT scans were associated with poor clinical outcome. Treatment with HCQ-AZ was associated with a decreased risk of transfer to the ICU or death (HR 0.19 0.12-0.29), decreased risk of hospitalization ?10 days (odds ratios 95% CI 0.37 0.26-0.51) and shorter duration of viral shedding (time to negative PCR: HR 1.27 1.16-1.39). QTc prolongation (>60 ms) was observed in 25 patients (0.67%) leading to the cessation of treatment in 3 cases. No cases of torsade de pointe or sudden death were observed. Conclusion Early diagnosis, early isolation and early treatment with at least 3 days of HCQ-AZ result in a significantly better clinical outcome and contagiosity in patients with COVID-19 than other treatments. Long-term follow-up to screen for fibrosis will be the next challenge in the management of COVID-19. https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/early-diagnosis-and-management-of-covid-19-patients-a-real-life-cohort-study-of-3737-patients-marseille-france/
bornagain77
May 28, 2020
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The preprint of the article by Yale epidemiologist recommending the use of HCQ and azithromycin. I wonder how long before he is hauled in and read the riot act and offered a job consulting with a drug company and to repeal his article. Notice extremely low rate of death due to use of HCQ in abstract below. But yet the Lancet study finds thousand times this rate in their data base. https://bit.ly/2ZM6bhy
Abstract More than 1.6 million Americans have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 and >10 times that number carry antibodies to it. High-risk patients presenting with progressing symptomatic disease have only hospitalization treatment with its high mortality. An outpatient treatment that prevents hospitalization is desperately needed. Two candidate medications have been widely discussed: remdesivir, and hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin. Remdesivir has shown mild effectiveness in hospitalized inpatients, but no trials have been registered in outpatients. Hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin has been widely misrepresented in both clinical reports and public media, and outpatient trials results are not expected until September. Early outpatient illness is very different than later hospitalized florid disease and the treatments differ. Evidence about use of hydroxychloroquine alone, or of hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin in inpatients, is irrelevant concerning efficacy of the pair in early high-risk outpatient disease. Five studies, including two controlled clinical trials, have demonstrated significant major outpatient treatment efficacy. Hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin has been used as standard-of-care in more than 300,000 older adults with multicomorbidities, with estimated proportion diagnosed with cardiac arrhythmias attributable to the medications 47/100,000 users, of which estimated mortality is <20%, 9/100,000 users, compared to the 10,000 Americans now dying each week. These medications need to be widely available and promoted immediately for physicians to prescribe.
jerry
May 28, 2020
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The anti RHampton site https://bit.ly/2Ag6ZAQ
Yale Epidemiology Professor Urges Hydroxychloroquine & Azithromycin Early Therapy for COVID-19
jerry
May 28, 2020
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KF @35 Thanks for that reply. I'll read it carefully and look into the references. Unfortunately, I don't have much time to devote to this discussion. As an AI researcher, I've known for years that the field is almost 100% dominated by atheist Jews and it has been so from the beginning. It's a good old boy's network and every one of them is a globalist Christophobe with a deep hatred for the concept of national territory and cultural identity (except their own). I personally call it treason. They go out of their way to create a false antagonism between Christianity and science. Nobody can have a career in Silicon Valley while being openly Christian. And it's all because of the atheist mindset fostered by the atheist Jews who control the field. As a Christian, I find it insulting. There's no doubt in my mind that their stranglehold over mainstream media, the high tech industry and education will eventually result in open hostilities and rebellion. They're pissing off a lot of people. Again, I wish the orthodox Jews did not remain silent on this issue because their atheist brethren are pushing the world to the brink of disaster. May God help us all.FourFaces
May 28, 2020
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Was the Lancet study cooked? Are the following accusations true? 1. Won't reveal data! 2.Contradicts other data sources! 3. Contradicts all other claims of harm by HCQ! 4.Researchers associated with Gilead! 5. Who funded study? 6. When did analysis start? 7. How did they get data since it is not public? One researcher said it would take years to get this data and get it analyzed based on his experience with medical research but yet it appears in about 6 weeks. For example, each hospital would have to be coded for when HCQ was administered and this was not being kept anywhere uniformly.jerry
May 28, 2020
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Jerry @ 8 - I've no idea if it did, but there are some severe problems with it, for example it was registered as a trail for traditional Chinese medicine, some of the numbers are impossible, and others don't make sense. Oh, and April seems to have had 60 days. Some of these problems might be mistakes that can be corrected, but it doesn't look great.Bob O'H
May 28, 2020
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Jerry, 8: Actually, likely the study you point to may well be in the base but its scale would drown out such indications under the weight of post hospitalisation, severely damaged patients with lung damage, cardiovascular damage and emerging cytokine storms. Framing, sampling choice and several other issues can lead to drowning out valid signals in a situation. Something, sustainability driven strategic change analysts are trained to look out for. This is also why stakeholder consultation based highly participative approaches to assessing business as usual and potential alternatives are part of the package deal. When power agendas dominate, truth and right are likely to be in key part marginalised, tainted, stereotyped and scapegoated. Not to mention, the gold standard fallacious lockout that is leading to improperly excluding the valid and otherwise cogent evidence of thousands of cases, that show manageable safety and strong signs of effectiveness when intervention is made before hospitalisation is indicated due to damage triggered by the disease process. In that context, casting a pall of suspicion over the safety of the drug in the context of CV19 then leads to suspending ALL studies that actively use it; neatly cutting off further evidence save from whatever countries defy the WHO. That is smelling of a pattern in drug investigation administrative and regulatory politics. How many actually credible treatments have been banished to the margins in recent decades? Could there be an emerging, growing gap between what ordinary people and minor paradigms marginalised by the dominant medical community know and what is the duly imprimatur-bearing dominant narrative. Is this part of why there is obvious, increasing disaffection with the Medical-Pharmacological establishment. And if that is so for a big slice of the global service economy, what is that pointing to regarding general disaffection from the civilisation's elites and their dominant narratives across the board? But a big clue is right there: it seems the average residence time in the body for the drug is ~ 3 weeks,suggesting some fat solubility I think (based on basic chemistry and the known flushing action of the kidneys). In that context, if HCQ is significantly cardio-toxic, then the primary targets would be those making long term use, where it would be built up and sustained in the body on a long term basis . . . Arthritis, Lupus and Malaria. So, the very narrowness of the ban and ferocious warnings says, something is afoot that didn't ought to be afoot. The statistics suggesting higher incidence of cardiovascular impacts post hospitalisation, given the known tendency of CV19 to attack the cardiovascular system indicates an interactive rather than primary effect. One that would be amplified through Azithromycin, which is noted for potential cardiovascular impacts. Hence, the suggested substitution of Doxycycline. In that context, taking the data on early stage positive impact seriously -- one of the problems with valid evidence vs gold standard fallacies I am seeing -- we can see that the body of evidence is in fact consistent in ways that support the efficacy of HCQ based cocktails as effective antivirals for SARS2. But, when we have a toxic climate, such nuanced thinking or suggestion will very likely be drowned out. Sad, and the lockoff on further study will then lead to predictable marginalisation and branding of intellectual dissent from the power imposed, logically deeply flawed dominant narrative. Which will ring a few bells as we ponder how ID has been treated over the past twenty or so years. Bad habits on addressing issues, analysis, evidence and thought have consequences. Surely, we can do better than this? KF PS: Sometimes, even the wild-eyed heretics have a point.kairosfocus
May 28, 2020
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FF, you are continuing the same line, unconsciously and unfortunately revealing much. So, as I suspect this is part of the emergent fatal disaffection (and given some truly ugly history) I will further remark here, even though this is well off on a toxic tangent. Partly, in hope that we can refocus the main issue for this thread, instead of getting lost on successive toxic tangents. There is, after all, a pandemic to address and there are issues of inductive, scientific logic and warrant relating to how we address evidence regarding treatment; with wider implications for how our overall intellectual and moral capacity to prudently address issues is heading in the face of waves of crisis. Where, the issue of commanding heights of influence in our civilisation and how they may lead us astray, lurk. Perhaps, this matter is a lesson for other cases. By ancestry, I am Jamaican. In that country, apart from Windward Maroons and doubtless some far mixed out Arawak ancestry, the oldest identifiable ethnic group is Jewish. Some estimate that about 40% of Jamaica's current stock have Jewish ancestry. Others also point to W Africa and some suggested Jewish ancestry in THAT population also. I have friends who are in fact Jews, not merely having that extraction; though some are by religion Christian. Their names point to the Jews of the Mediterranean basin. When I hear you unconsciously using the one drop of tainted blood rule to point to Lenin and Stalin, that rings all sorts of bells. Especially as, notoriously, many of the leading members of Herr Schicklegruber's circle and key henchmen, even some Generals, evidently had fairly close Jewish ancestry. Down that road lie horrors I don't even want to suggest any further. I suggest, if you want a better frame for addressing twisting the issue of oppression, past and even as yet unfinished, into part of ideological plausibility structures that support various political power games you would find that neo-Marxism, in cultural form (as a post-Cold War resurrection), is a far better fit. Often, expressed in terms of the widespread, deeply influential cultural/critical studies/theory largely tracing to the Frankfurt School and other sources. Summarising by clipping SEP:
Critical Theory First published Tue Mar 8, 2005 Critical Theory has a narrow and a broad meaning in philosophy and in the history of the social sciences. “Critical Theory” in the narrow sense designates several generations of German philosophers and social theorists in the Western European Marxist tradition known as the Frankfurt School. According to these theorists, a “critical” theory may be distinguished from a “traditional” theory according to a specific practical purpose: a theory is critical to the extent that it seeks human “emancipation from slavery”, acts as a “liberating … influence”, and works “to create a world which satisfies the needs and powers” of human beings (Horkheimer 1972, 246). Because such theories aim to explain and transform all the circumstances that enslave human beings, many “critical theories” in the broader sense have been developed. They have emerged in connection with the many social movements that identify varied dimensions of the domination of human beings in modern societies. In both the broad and the narrow senses, however, a critical theory provides the descriptive and normative bases for social inquiry aimed at decreasing domination and increasing freedom in all their forms. Critical Theory in the narrow sense has had many different aspects and quite distinct historical phases that cross several generations, from the effective start of the Institute for Social Research in the years 1929–1930, which saw the arrival of the Frankfurt School philosophers and an inaugural lecture by Horkheimer, to the present. Its distinctiveness as a philosophical approach that extends to ethics, political philosophy, and the philosophy of history is most apparent when considered in light of the history of the philosophy of the social sciences. Critical Theorists have long sought to distinguish their aims, methods, theories, and forms of explanation from standard understandings in both the natural and the social sciences. Instead, they have claimed that social inquiry ought to combine rather than separate the poles of philosophy and the social sciences: explanation and understanding, structure and agency, regularity and normativity. Such an approach, Critical Theorists argue, permits their enterprise to be practical in a distinctively moral (rather than instrumental) sense. They do not merely seek to provide the means to achieve some independent goal, but rather (as in Horkheimer's famous definition mentioned above) seek “human emancipation” in circumstances of domination and oppression. This normative task cannot be accomplished apart from the interplay between philosophy and social science through interdisciplinary empirical social research (Horkheimer 1993).
Notice, the central archetypal construct, slavery/ liberation, with all that is then connected to it and all that plays off the implied tainting and toxic atmosphere that undermines sound and balanced thought. Down that road lie all the lurking issues of branding and scapegoating the perceived oppressor, thus silencing messages we most urgently need to hear. Plato's Parable of the Ship of State and its echo in Ac 27, could not be more urgently relevant and unheeded. You useless stargazer . . . And yes, several of the key scholars from Germany, from Italy, I think France and definitely the US were Jewish. That holds true for any significant academic, political or cultural movement of our civilisation. Where, obviously, you need to learn that the Y Chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA studies have shown that key Ashkenazi Jewish populations were rooted in Jewish men settling in regions and marrying local girls, then closing the ancestral circle within that community. Eventually, those communities then interbred. This is consistent with the known history, also with up to perhaps 10% of the early Roman Empire's population being Jewish. Then came the triple uprisings from 66 - 135 AD. Myths about Asiatic tribes have little foundation, though you should note clear evidence of accession, such as Joshua being a Kennizite Edomite ancestrally, David having Moabite roots and clear links to the royal house of Moab (carrying suggestions as to what Ruth was), and even the story of the Herods and the Hasmoneans. Connect dots. Yes, many Jews have been taught to be suspicious and fearful of and even in some cases subtly hostile to Christians. That is unsurprising on the relevant history. It is also now under challenge from within Judaism on several fronts, many tracing to the rise of openly Messianic Judaism connected to the impact of the Charismatic Renewal from the 1960's forward and thus also the Pentecostal and Methodist/Wesleyan movements, among others. So, there is clear need to rebalance. It is high time that the sins of racism were acknowledged and turned from. Across the board. An excellent place to begin is Paul's Mars Hill presentation:
Acts 17:22 So Paul, standing in the center of the Areopagus, said: “Men of Athens, I observe [with every turn I make throughout the city] that you are very religious and devout in all respects. 23 Now as I was going along and carefully looking at your objects of worship, I came to an altar with this inscription: ‘TO AN [d]UNKNOWN GOD.’ Therefore what you already worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24 The God who created the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; 25 nor is He [e]served by human hands, as though He needed anything, because it is He who gives to all [people] life and breath and all things. 26 And He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands and territories. 27 This was so that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grasp for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 For in Him we live and move and exist [that is, in Him we actually have our being], as even some of [f]your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’ 29 So then, being God’s children, we should not think that the Divine Nature (deity) is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination or skill of man. 30 Therefore God overlooked and disregarded the former ages of ignorance; but now He commands all people everywhere to repent [that is, to change their old way of thinking, to regret their past sins, and to seek God’s purpose for their lives], 31 because He has set a day when He will judge the inhabited world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed and destined for that task, and He has provided credible proof to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”
If you look for a model for gospel communication through prophetically insightful intellectual leadership, across worldview, ideological, geostrategic, cultural, racial and class divides, there it is. (And BTW, here on in context is how I address this.) KFkairosfocus
May 27, 2020
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EG, I don't hate Jews. I worship one. I love Jews in general just I as love Christians in general. It's just that there is a minority among Jews that are not really Jews in the orthodox or OT sense. They're secular atheists pretending to be Jews as a way to play the victims even though they're filthy rich and powerful. They make a lot of trouble for the world, starting wars, creating more division and hatred among the races, religions and the sexes, and doing the one thing that they do best, weaving lies and deception. Jesus had a few choice words to say to them, something having to do with Satan. Then he prophesied about the coming destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. He also sent his Jewish disciples, not to the Jewish people, but to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, the brothers of the Jews who had migrated to Europe. They can stop their treason and shenanigans anytime they want. We can still be friends.FourFaces
May 27, 2020
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FF
... because it will get ugly, I’m afraid.
With mindless hatred like you are demonstrating, it has already gotten very ugly.Ed George
May 27, 2020
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KF, You should really research what Solzhenitsyn wrote about atheist Jews in the USSR apart from the Gulag Archipelago. Both Lenin and Stalin had Jewish ancestry. Jews were the only ethnic group to have had special protection in the USSR instituted by Stalin. Most of the killing of Christians occurred during and before WWII when Bolsheviks were in power. Bernie Sanders, an atheist Jew and Senator from Vermont never once visited Solzhenitsyn when the latter lived there for 20 years. There's a reason for that. Guess what it is. And as far as atheist Jews being racial supremacists is concerned, you really need to educate yourself about their incessant propaganda of having a higher IQ than any other ethnic group. It's a good old boys club that control many national and internal institutions dedicated to making themselves look superior with powerful jobs in industry, government and academia, not to mention frequent Nobel Prizes and other self-given rewards. So stop being scared of the enemy within. Their only goal is to destroy all nations (especially Christian nations) and create a borderless, monocultural, planet-wide super state with themselves at the top. I only pray that orthodox Jews would make themselves heard and oppose what the others are doing in their name because it will get ugly, I'm afraid.FourFaces
May 27, 2020
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FF, Just on one point, perhaps, it has not dawned on you that it is easy to show that the Communist state in the USSR was not a Jewish conspiracy, though a significant number of Communists were Jews, starting with Marx. Engels -- his key partner -- was not. Lenin was not, Stalin was not, Khrushchev, Brezhnev et al were not. And, on my recall of The Gulag Archipelago as read at the time it came out, Solzhenitsyn targetted malevolent, demonic evil running through the individual human heart and its roots in deception, not any particular race. However, there was indeed someone who did champion that the kissing cousin ideology he hated and set out on the bloodiest war within a war in history over was a Jewish conspiracy. I am not speaking out of fear of Jews or for that matter out of blindly naive pro Zionist sentiment or the like, but out of fairness and readily established truth. Please, please, please, think again. KFkairosfocus
May 27, 2020
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KF, You're not correcting me. Unless you're hiding something, you're just afraid of secular Jewish retaliation. I'm not. Between 50 and 80 million Christians died at the hands of atheist Bolshevik Jews in the Soviet Union according to Solzhenitsyn. But all we hear about are racists and Nazis and 6 million Jews that they allegedly murdered even though the Jewish population in Europe at the time was probably less than 2 million. I worship a Jewish God named Jesus of Nazareth who was born of Mary, a descendant of King David, and had 12 Jewish disciples. So anyone accusing me of antisemitism can kiss my you know what. So go ahead and ban me.FourFaces
May 27, 2020
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DS, I do not know whether Ms Barr has had serious issues to raise (nor do I know who/what she is other than some sort of US media figure), but whatever we may think of the man, on this specific matter Dr Corsi does raise sobering issues, regardless of whatever else he may be, have done, have said or is up to. I am pointing to a WARNING-sign on which fatal disaffection may well be settling in. I have already noted to Sev and have already pointed EG to my point by point comments for cause on the Lancet paper. KFkairosfocus
May 27, 2020
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FF, correction is not threat. KFkairosfocus
May 27, 2020
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Sev, the whole bias towards in-hospital treatments and trials under those circumstances is already a factor in the issues. The issue of where we are on the U is pivotal to understanding and responding to what is warranted, e.g. the cases and balances of outcomes we see are critically dependent on how far down the U we are. Concerns about what may well be happening when cardiovascular damage is setting in due to the disease process and that interacts with what are strong drugs doing some pretty harsh things to cellular processes may be severely mis-aligned when extended to higher on the U. In that context, singling out ferocious advisories, suspensions etc on use of HCQ for CV19 when, were it generally cardio-toxic, it should extend far more to long term use for Lupus and Arthritis as well as to widespread use on Malaria, is to my mind a flag on improper inductive inferences likely being present. KF PS: Speaking as an outside observer concerned about the path of the leading global economic and geostrategic power which is also the pioneer of mmodern democracy, I would say that the down-spiral of ever increasing polarisation now in low kinetic high agit prop and lawfare civil war, dates back to at least the 1960's and 70's, with the Vietnam War, the rise of holocaust of living posterity in the womb and several other factors as highlights. I have openly stated my concerns on fatal disaffection, on important historical geostrategic antecedents such as the 1914 catastrophe, and have specifically identified that urban, largely coastal elites and groups in their patronage are facing a peasant uprising on both sides of the Atlantic. There being a very long tradition of such among the English Speaking peoples. Of course, events from April 19 1775 on are a particularly striking example. The current circumstances simply mark one phase in that process and those elites and those influenced by them would be well advised to consider the likely eventual outcomes of their power moves should full bore fatal disaffection set in. I say that, without any particular endorsement of any current or future champions of the hinterland peoples, knowing all too well the sort of dangerous lottery that such uprisings are and the long history of would be political messiahs. I do think that some very ill advised things have obviously been in train for 50 years in the case of the USA. But then, arguably, the powder train to 1914 and 1940 goes back to 1870.kairosfocus
May 27, 2020
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KF @21 I stand by what I wrote. Don't threaten me. Just ban me. I'll be fine with that.FourFaces
May 27, 2020
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KF, I mean there is plenty of serious evidence concerning the topic at hand, isn't there? Lots of studies, analysis of those studies by various competent individuals, etc. Then you just drop Jerome Corsi into the discussion---it's almost like you're taunting us. Should we expect a link to Roseanne Barr's take on the subject next? 😛daveS
May 27, 2020
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RH7, Dr Zelenko's personal and community issues are irrelevant to the substantial issues at stake. Let us look towards the forthcoming paper. KFkairosfocus
May 27, 2020
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Sev, Dr Zelenko has been fighting a rare cancer that reportedly has effectively 100% fatality rate; per description in earlier vids. He regards himself as a miracle to simply be alive. Such will indeed tend to give people a sense of mission. The paper has been in discussion for several weeks, and a key part of the OP is that there is a proposed timeline. KFkairosfocus
May 27, 2020
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Kairosfocus @ 13
One thing I am sure is that the atmosphere has been well and truly poisoned. Poisoned in the first instance by professionals who should understand the stitch in time principle for medical intervention. KF
Aren't Dr Zelenko and Dr Raoult professionals? I am not aware of any health professionals who have denied the importance of early intervention. The poisonously partisan atmosphere in this country is due in no small measure to a president who paid lip-service to uniting the country on a few occasions but otherwise has worked hard to court his right-wing base and separate them from the rest of America which he and they are coming to regard as mortal enemies.Seversky
May 27, 2020
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FF, you have again made an ETHNIC rather than an ideological identification. I suggest, you would be well advised to rethink, given the sad and unfinished history of hatred towards and violence against Jews. I suggest, that a characterisation that media are racially controlled by people identified as supremacists is a further indication of grave error. Please, think again. KFkairosfocus
May 27, 2020
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DS, you resorted to blanket dismissal without addressing substantial issues, not noting that I specifically do not endorse his general opinions. Do you see what I mean about a toxic environment? KFkairosfocus
May 27, 2020
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Dr Zelenko on Israel National News, May 21, 2020 — forthcoming paper ~ two weeks? — he also speaks to the stitch in time factor, but make allowance for that he is plainly somewhat angry (and is himself fighting life-threatening cancer in the meanwhile)
I'm sorry to hear Dr Zelenko is ill but glad to hear he is publishing a paper at last.Seversky
May 27, 2020
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In a video shared by the Orthodox news site Yeshiva World News, Zelenko announced he would leave Kiryas Joel, the town north of New York City where, until the coronavirus pandemic, he was known as a beloved community doctor. “ Things have happened,” he said speaking directly to the camera. “I’ve decided that it’s time for me to move on. I’m not sure yet what I’m going to do.” Leaders of the Kiryas Joel community spoke out publicly against Zelenko in an open letter in March. “We the undersigned institutions strongly believe that the predictions presented by Dr. Zelenko have been proven false and are not supported by the overall medical establishment, specifically in his wild conclusions as to the spread of the virus in our community,” The letter was written to contradict Zelenko’s claims, which he promoted in videos posted to YouTube, that 90% of the Kiryas Joel community would be infected with COVID-19. Zelenko is also being investigated by a federal prosecutor over his claim that a study of the drugs he promoted had won approval from the Food and Drug Administration. https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-md-who-promoted-virus-cocktail-leaving-community-where-he-tested-it/rhampton7
May 27, 2020
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Galia Rahav, head of the Infectious Disease Unit and Laboratories at Sheba Medical Center, Tel Hashomer, told The Jerusalem Post that at the onset of the coronavirus pandemic, her team treated some patients with hydroxychloroquine and enrolled others in a clinical trial that involved the drug. Rahav told the Post that she does not believe the side-effects of the drug are a significant danger. “We have not seen any scary side effects,” she said, noting that this is true even among those patients who have received high doses of the drug for long periods of time. She said there have been isolated cases of arrhythmia and rashes, but that these were not consistent or common symptoms. “I don’t think the side effects are a big deal, but I also think it does not do anything.” https://www.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-specialist-hydroxychloroquine-ineffective-treatment-for-covid-19-629493rhampton7
May 27, 2020
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KF, Eh? Surely it can't help your case to link to a 2-hour youtube video by a schizo like Jerome Corsi?daveS
May 27, 2020
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Kairosfocus @12 If you're going to put words in my mouth and accuse me of "projecting racial supremacism to Jews in general" (which I clearly did not do seeing that I made a distinction between orthodox and secular Jews), just go ahead and ban me and I'll be on my way. The fact remains that secular atheist Jews control mainstream media and they're the ones who are badmouthing Hydroxychloroquine. So yes, I am on topic.FourFaces
May 27, 2020
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