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Latest consciousness theory: Rocks have minds?

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File:A small cup of coffee.JPG Remember, we were talking recently about how researchers are seeking a compromise between materialist and non-materialist views of consciousness, principally because materialist theory has gone nowhere for centuries? You can be darn sure these people wouldn’t be offering a compromise if there was any hope at all of materialism/naturalism ever working.

Now there’s this, from the New York Times, ”Mind of a Rock”:

And the part of our world that is most recalcitrant to our understanding at the moment is consciousness itself. How could the electrochemical processes in the lump of gray matter that is our brain give rise to — or, even more mysteriously, be — the dazzling technicolor play of consciousness, with its transports of joy, its stabs of anguish and its stretches of mild contentment alternating with boredom? This has been called “the most important problem in the biological sciences” and even “the last frontier of science.” It engrosses the intellectual energies of a worldwide community of brain scientists, psychologists, philosophers, physicists, computer scientists and even, from time to time, the Dalai Lama.

So vexing has the problem of consciousness proved that some of these thinkers have been driven to a hypothesis that sounds desperate, if not downright crazy. Perhaps, they say, mind is not limited to the brains of some animals. Perhaps it is ubiquitous, present in every bit of matter, all the way up to galaxies, all the way down to electrons and neutrinos, not excluding medium-size things like a glass of water or a potted plant. Moreover, it did not suddenly arise when some physical particles on a certain planet chanced to come into the right configuration; rather, there has been consciousness in the cosmos from the very beginning of time.

So instead of nothing is mind, the latest proposal is, everything is. Hush, listen when your coffee cup is talking … 😉

Comments
KN:
I don’t think that’s true, let alone true “by definition” (whatever that means). It is true that ordinary consciousness in normal mature human beings has an subject-pole and an object-pole, but must that be true of all consciousness, just as such? Some kinds of powerful psychedelic drugs collapse the subject/object distinction, and Zen satori also collapses that distinction (from what I’ve been told). Yet achieving satori is not like going into a coma.
It is certainly true by definition, unless you want to play with semantics. Opposites are complementary by definition.
Some kinds of powerful psychedelic drugs collapse the subject/object distinction, and Zen satori also collapses that distinction (from what I’ve been told). Yet achieving satori is not like going into a coma.
Nothing can collapse the subject/object distinction. Nothing can be its own opposite. That's nonsensical. The object is never "out there" to begin with. It resides in one or more areas of the brain. Everything you consciously experience is in your brain.Mapou
September 27, 2013
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Now to bring all this into the focus of the Christian perspective, Jesus says that He is “The Truth, the Way and The Life”. And in regards to what is currently revealed in our scientific knowledge, I would have to say say that this is a VERY, VERY fantastic claim to make (at least to me personally)! If Jesus is speaking the truth, which I believe He is, then by the rules of logic this makes Jesus equivalent to God Almighty. Well,,, Is Jesus God??? Well, believe it or not, there actually is now some fairly strong scientific evidence that gives a very credible, and very persuasive, indication that the number one problem in physics and mathematics today, of reconciling General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics into a ‘Theory of everything’, finds a very credible resolution in the resurrection of Jesus Christ,, and in my book, if Christ truly is the elusive “Theory of Everything” then means that Jesus Christ is God i.e. The Jesus Christ is “The Truth” just as He claimed to be!
The Center Of The Universe Is Life – General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics and The Shroud Of Turin – video http://vimeo.com/34084462 Centrality of Each Individual Observer In The Universe and Christ’s Very Credible Reconciliation Of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics – notes https://docs.google.com/document/d/17SDgYPHPcrl1XX39EXhaQzk7M0zmANKdYIetpZ-WB5Y/edit?hl=en_US
Verses and Music:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Natalie Grant – Alive (Resurrection music video) http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=KPYWPGNX Lyric from song: “Death has lost and love has won!” Matthew 16:16-18 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Solid Rock - the 5th service band Featuring TRU-SERVA - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4jD70Y-mQ0
bornagain77
September 27, 2013
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Quantum mechanics gives us compelling evidence that consciousness precedes material reality. Moreover, due to advances in Quantum mechanics, the argument for God from consciousness can now be framed like this:
1. Consciousness either preceded all of material reality or is a 'epi-phenomena' of material reality. 2. If consciousness is a 'epi-phenomena' of material reality then consciousness will be found to have no special position within material reality. Whereas conversely, if consciousness precedes material reality then consciousness will be found to have a special position within material reality. 3. Consciousness is found to have a special, even central, position within material reality. 4. Therefore, consciousness is found to precede material reality. Four intersecting lines of experimental evidence from quantum mechanics that shows that consciousness precedes material reality (Wigner’s Quantum Symmetries, Wheeler’s Delayed Choice, Leggett’s Inequalities, Quantum Zeno effect): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G_Fi50ljF5w_XyJHfmSIZsOcPFhgoAZ3PRc_ktY8cFo/edit
The following site is very interesting and adds an unexpected intersecting line of evidence to the preceding evidence:
The Scale of The Universe - Part 2 - interactive graph (recently updated in 2012 with cool features) http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white
The preceding interactive graph points out that the smallest scale visible to the human eye (as well as a human egg) is at 10^-4 meters, which 'just so happens' to be directly in the exponential center of all possible sizes of our physical reality (not just ‘nearly’ in the exponential center!). i.e. 10^-4 is, exponentially, right in the middle of 10^-35 meters, which is the smallest possible unit of length, which is Planck length, and 10^27 meters, which is the largest possible unit of 'observable' length since space-time was created in the Big Bang, which is the diameter of the universe. This is very interesting for, as far as I can tell, the limits to human vision (as well as the size of the human egg) could have, theoretically, been at very different positions than directly in the exponential middle; Verse:
Psalm 33:13-15 The LORD looks from heaven; He sees all the sons of men. From the place of His dwelling He looks on all the inhabitants of the earth; He fashions their hearts individually; He considers all their works.
Thus, although a material rock is not conscious, nor does it have a free will, I did write an essay on finding truth in a rock (and truth) a while back. An essay that revealed some rather unique insights to me personally in my process of writing it. And here it is: What Is Truth?
John 18:38 “What is truth?” Pilate asked. With this he went out again to the Jews and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.
The preceding verse happens, as far as I know, to be the verse on the oldest fragment of the New Testament discovered thus far:
The Oldest Known Fragment Of The New Testament – Serendipitous Gospel – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyfR0AsRaX4
To varying degrees everyone looks for truth. A few people back in the 60’s, such as the Beatles, went so far as to travel to distant lands seeking gurus in their quest to find “Truth”. People are happy when they discover a new truth into the mysteries of life. People who have deep insights into the truth of how things actually work are considered wise. In the bible Jesus says “You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.” So, since truth is considered such a good thing, let us look for truth in a common object; a simple rock. Few people would try to argue that a rock is not real. Someone who would argue that it is not real could bang his head on the rock until he was satisfied the rock is real. A rock is composed of three basic ingredients; energy, force and ‘truth’. From Einstein’s famous equation (e=mc2) we know that all matter (all solids, liquids and gases) of the universe are ultimately made up of energy and therefore the entire rock can “hypothetically” be reduced to energy.
E=mc2: Einstein explains his famous formula – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC7Sg41Bp-U
This energy is “woven” by various complex, unchanging, transcendent, universal forces into the atoms of the rock. The amount of energy woven by these complex interactions of various, unchanging, universal forces into the rock is tremendous. This tremendous energy that is somehow constrained within a rock is clearly demonstrated by the detonation of nuclear bombs.
Atomic Bomb Explosion – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-22tna7KHzI 6.4 mg of mass converted to energy in Hiroshima A-bomb 4,400,000 Hiroshima A-bombs equivalent to one ounce of mass 1 drop of water equivalent to 10 Hiroshima A-bombs Entire energy consumption of America, for 1 year, equivalent to 1 bowling ball 52 X 10^55 Hiroshima bombs equivalent at ‘Big Bang’ Big Bang After its (The Big Bang’s) initial expansion from a singularity, the Universe cooled sufficiently to allow energy to be converted into various subatomic particles, including protons, neutrons, and electrons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
This 'woven energy' is found in each and every individual “particle” of every atom, in the trillions upon countless trillions of atoms in the rock. While energy can be said to be what gives “substance” to the rock, energy in and of itself is a “non-solid” entity. In fact, it is the unchanging, transcendent, universal constants/forces, which are ‘unseen’, that tell the energy exactly where to be and what to do in the rock, and are what can be said to be the ONLY solid, uncompromising “thing” in the rock. The last part of this following video, starting at the 5:09 minute mark, has some excellent photographs of atoms that gets this ‘non-solid’ point of the energy/matter of a rock across, as well as giving a tiny glimpse of where the universal constants, constraining the tremendous energy in a rock, come into play.
Uncertainty Principle – The ‘Uncertain Non-Particle’ Basis Of Material Reality – video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4109172
,,,Yet there is another ingredient which went into making the atoms of the rock besides the universal constants/forces and matter/energy. An ingredient that is often neglected to be looked at as a “real” component of the rock. It is the transcendent and spiritual component of truth. If truth did not exist the rock would not exist. This is as obvious as the fact that the rock would not exist if energy and/or unchanging force did not exist. It is the truth in and of the logical laws of the interrelated unchanging forces of the universal constants that govern the energy in the rock that enable the rock to be a rock in the first place. Is truth independent and dominant of the energy and force? Yes of course, there are many philosophical truths of reason that are not dependent on energy or force for them to still be true (for example the Law of Non-Contradiction). Yet energy and unchanging force are precisely subject to what the unchanging “truth” tells them they can and cannot do in the rock. To put it another way, the rock cannot exist without truth yet truth can exist independently of the rock. Since truth clearly dictates what energy and/or unchanging force can or cannot do, it follows that truth dominates energy and unchanging force. Energy and unchanging force do not dominate truth. It is also obvious that truth is omnipresent in this universe. That is to say, the truth that is in the rock on this world is the same truth that is in a rock on the other side of the universe on another world. Thus, truth is present everywhere at all times in this universe (Indeed, Science would be extremely difficult, to put it very mildly, if this uniformity of truth, for all of nature, were not so). It has also been scientifically proven, by quantum non-locality, that whenever something becomes physically “true” (wave collapse of entangled electron, photon) in any part of the universe, this “truth” is instantaneously communicated anywhere/everywhere in the universe to its corresponding “particle”.
Light and Quantum Entanglement Reflect Some of the Characteristics Of God – video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4102182
Thus, truth is “aware” of everything that goes on in the universe instantaneously. This universal, instantaneous, awareness of a transcendent truth also gives truth the vital characteristic of being omniscient (All knowing). This instantaneous communication of truth to all points in the universe also happens to defy the speed of light; a “truth” that energy and even the unchanging force of gravity happen to be subject to (I believe all fundamental forces are shown to be subject to this “truth’ of the speed of light). This scientific proof of ‘instantaneous’ quantum non-locality also proves that truth is not a “passive” component of this universe. Truth is actually scientifically demonstrated, by quantum non-locality (and quantum teleportation), to be the “active” dominant component of this universe. Thus, truth is not a passive set of rules written on a sheet of paper somewhere. Truth is the “living governor” of this universe that has dominion over all other components of this universe and is not bound by any of the laws that “truth” has subjected all the other components of the universe to. Truth is, in fact, a tangible, independent, entity that enables and dictates this universe to exist in a overarching non-chaotic form so as to enable it to exist in the first place. This “Truth”, which is shown not to be subject to time in any way, shape, or form, by quantum non-locality, has also demonstrated foresight and purpose in the extreme fine-tuning for this temporal universe and, as such, can be said to be “alive” from the fact that a “decision” had to be made from the timeless/spaceless dimension, that ‘Truth’ inhabits, in order for this temporal reality to become real in the first place.
“The Big Bang represents an immensely powerful, yet carefully planned and controlled release of matter, energy, space and time. All this is accomplished within the strict confines of very carefully fine-tuned physical constants and laws. The power and care this explosion reveals exceeds human mental capacity by multiple orders of magnitude.” Prof. Henry F. Schaefer – What Properties Must the Cause of the Universe Have? – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SZWInkDIVI
i.e. ‘Truth’ is a major characteristic of the necessary Being, “uncaused cause”, the Alpha, that created all reality/realities that can possibly exist. Well, lets see what we have so far; Truth is eternal (it has always existed and will always exist); Truth is omnipresent (it is present everywhere in the universe at all times); Truth is omnipotent (it has dominion over everything else in the universe, yet is not subject to any physical laws); Truth has a vital characteristic of omniscience (truth is apparently instantaneously aware of everything that is happening in the universe and makes appropriate adjusments); and Truth is alive (Truth has created a temporal universe from a reality that is not subject to any physical laws of time or space for the express purpose of creating life; (fine-tuning) Surprisingly, being eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, and alive are the foundational characteristics that are used by theologians to describe God. Thus, logically speaking, spiritual/transcendent truth emanates directly from God and is coexistent with the Character of His Being. So in answer to our question “What is Truth?” we can answer that ‘Truth’, as far as the scientific method is concerned, is God.bornagain77
September 27, 2013
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"a hypothesis that sounds desperate, if not downright crazy." I'd say they skipped desperation and went straight to downright crazy, with stops along the way at ridiculous and stupid. Does this mean that eventually peer-reviewed papers will appear on what rocks dream about?Barb
September 27, 2013
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When the materialist can no longer deny the influence, at the end of the explanatory chain, of an unembodied mind - the new talking point evolves into "Ok, so then everything has a mind". - the dog and pony show absolutely must continue to proceed no matter what the evidence actually reflects.DinoV
September 27, 2013
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Actually, as crazy as this hypothesis may sound, and born of desperation as it is, this is not at all original. In the Vedanta schools of philosophy the overarching presence of consciousness is discussed in minute details. One such detail is that, on the Absolute platform/dimension, everything is "made" of consciouss particles and resides within the conscious awareness of the supreme consciousness -- Paramatma, the soul of all souls. The inconceivable, simultaneous oneness and difference between the Paramatma (God) and the atmas (the souls) is somewhat complex discussion but, for those interested, you can google "acintya bhedhabedha tattva")). Anyway, the spiel in Vedanta philosophy, is that altough a soul has the eternal capacity to be conscious, to will and to enjoy, it can temporarily lose its conscious awareness (of its own choice) and act as a "prop" for the creation of the material world, the world of unconscious objects that would be used by souls leaving the Absolute dimension (where everyting is fully conscious -- imagine a conscious river that you need to have a relationship with in order to cross it); for souls with exploitative curiosities (born out of free choice), the material world is perfect, since it is full of things to exploit, that is use for your own satisfaction, without a conscious relation to the Source, the Supraconsciousness. So, to conclude, this hypothesis has already been developed in Vedanta philosophy and, compared with the other one -- in which everything is unconscious, it is much more promising. So, kudos for that...tarmaras
September 27, 2013
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Consciousness obviously requires a knower and a known, a subject and an object. The two are necessarily complementary opposites. In other words, that which is known cannot know and that which knows cannot be known. This is true by definition.
I don't think that's true, let alone true "by definition" (whatever that means). It is true that ordinary consciousness in normal mature human beings has an subject-pole and an object-pole, but must that be true of all consciousness, just as such? Some kinds of powerful psychedelic drugs collapse the subject/object distinction, and Zen satori also collapses that distinction (from what I've been told). Yet achieving satori is not like going into a coma.
Unless materialists can identify what constitutes the knower and the known in a rock, they’re just spitting in the wind and making fools of themselves.
For one thing, panpsychism is not materialism. Did you not read the article News linked to? For another, the pragmatic naturalist regards the knower-known relation as a special case of the organism-environment relation. Still not panpsychist, though. I could go so far as "biological panpsychism": life is a necessary and sufficient condition for mind. Going beyond that to the full position is a bridge too far for me, but maybe I just lack empathy for boulders.Kantian Naturalist
September 27, 2013
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Consciousness obviously requires a knower and a known, a subject and an object. The two are necessarily complementary opposites. In other words, that which is known cannot know and that which knows cannot be known. This is true by definition. Unless materialists can identify what constitutes the knower and the known in a rock, they're just spitting in the wind and making fools of themselves.Mapou
September 27, 2013
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In my part of the world, 2007 does not count as "now". (C'mon, News can't even be bothered to look at the date on the articles it links to?)Kantian Naturalist
September 27, 2013
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