Defend the Children

_{Barry Arrington
May 24, 2022

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The madness will not end until we grasp the following truths:

1. There are hundreds of millions of guns in the US.

2. Even assuming for the sake of argument that it would be a desirable thing to do, no gun control law can eliminate all or even a small fraction of those guns.

3. Evil men will always be able to get a gun.

4. Schools are soft targets full of defenseless people.

5. We can’t hire enough cops to guard all of those people.

6. We need to equip and train school staff who are willing to do so to defend themselves and the children in their care.

7. Don’t tell me it can’t be done. It is being done in Israel.

Fight me. Show me that one of those statements is false.

Comments

KF: JH, at this point denial on your part seems increasingly hyperskeptical
Another buzzword used when you can't address the issues raised.
at no point have you cogently addressed research on the nature of mass attacks as extended suicides with ties to trauma and nihilism.
Irrelevant. Other western countries have suicide, trauma and nihilism. But they don't have near the gun violence and mass shootings that the US has. Nor have you and others been able to cogently answer point 7 from the OP, i.e. the Israeli example is clear
That has been addressed by myself and others. However, you have not addressed the fact that other western countries do not have near the gun violence that the US has. You have not addressed the fact that the states with the loosest gun laws and the most guns have the most gun violence, and those with the strictest gun laws have the lowest gun violence.JHolo_{June 15, 2022
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JH, at this point denial on your part seems increasingly hyperskeptical, especially as at no point have you cogently addressed research on the nature of mass attacks as extended suicides with ties to trauma and nihilism. Nor have you and others been able to cogently answer point 7 from the OP, i.e. the Israeli example is clear, with a further point of relevance that the explosives favoured there are highly regulated. KFkairosfocus_{June 14, 2022
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Jerry: Answered several times.
No it hasn’t. Just claiming that the comparisons are irrelevant doesn’t make it so. Aside: why not Brazil? It’s a very large western nation founded by an European country. Why is it not included?
Sure. Include it in the comparison if you would like. But don’t get me wrong. Comparisons are not easy due to numerous factors. For example, comparing gun violence in authoritative regimes against democratic regimes would be pointless. But I don’t see why you can’t conduct comparisons against countries with similar systems. Perhaps another factor to ensure that comparisons is to limit comparisons to countries with similar perceived levels of government corruption and similar levels of democracy. For example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index But to simply say that you can’t perform valuable comparisons is a cop-out.JHolo_{June 14, 2022
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when it is not necessary in any other western nation.
Answered several times. More important question: Why the willful ignorance? Aside: why not Brazil? It’s a very large western nation founded by an European country. Why is it not included?jerry_{June 14, 2022
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Paxx: Who here is for securing the schools as federal buildings are secured, and as Biden, Pelosi and Shumer are secured?
Sadly, I don’t think you have any option at this point. But the bigger question should be, why are you now in the position where this is necessary when it is not necessary in any other western nation.JHolo_{June 14, 2022
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On display here by some commenters - Useful Idiots by Garret Geer 6 years ago in 2016 Notice #4 - the useful idiots’ mentor knew about it so one way to obtain it is to deny it will have any effect.
Though Alinsky died 43 years ago on June 12, 1972, his writings influenced those in political control of our nation today, especially, Obama and Hillary Clinton. All eight of his radical rules are currently in play. Anyone out there think that this stuff isn’t happening today in the U.S.? How to create a socialist state by Saul Alinsky: There are eight levels of control that must be obtained before you are able to create a socialist state. The first is the most important. 1) Healthcare—Control healthcare and you control the people. 2) Poverty—Increaser the poverty level as high as possible; poor people are easier to control and will not fight back if you are providing everything for them to live. 3) Debt—Increase the debt to an unsustainable level. That way you are able to increase taxes, and this will produce more poverty. 4) Gun control—Remove the ability to defend themselves from the government. That way you are able to create a police state. 5) Welfare—Take control of every aspect of their lives (Food, Housing, and Income) 6) Education—Take control of what people read and listen to—take control of what children learn in school. 7) Religion—Remove the belief in the God from the government and schools. 8) Class Warfare—Divide the people into the wealthy and the poor. This will cause more discontent, and it will be easier to tax the wealthy with the support of the poor.
jerry_{June 14, 2022
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Paxx, do we have operational details? Or do you mean, guard detail, however composed, etc. KFkairosfocus_{June 13, 2022
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Who here is for securing the schools as federal buildings are secured, and as Biden, Pelosi and Shumer are secured? [ ] Yes [ ] NoPaxx_{June 13, 2022
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As Hans Rosling showed, the more educated one is, the more uninformed one is.
They're not truly educated. They're indoctrinated. I watched a long interview with Naomi Wolf last night (Epoch TV) and she explained how absorbing information from select, mainstream media (NY Times, CNN, MSNBC) caused her to become misinformed. That's a startling admission from someone who still claims to be "of the left" as she does, but just openly admitted that she was propagandized by the news media and never even heard of the other side of the story. It's the same with higher-education. A student can spend years in a college or university and never be truly educated, even in a single topic of interest.Silver Asiatic_{June 13, 2022
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I have noticed that people here are more than willing to compare the US against other countries, both current and historic, when it supports their arguments, but claim that the comparisons are irrelevant when they don’t. Cake, meet mouth.JHolo_{June 13, 2022
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An excellent explanation for some of the commenters here. Why they act like zombies and don’t respond to logic. They are typical of a small but significant part of the educated. As Hans Rosling showed, the more educated one is, the more uninformed one is. They are also intransigent to evidence and logic. https://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2022/06/11/the-management-of-fanaticism-n1604302jerry_{June 13, 2022
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OK, how about comparing to the Nordic countries, which have a similar per capita GDP
Two things. First: They are small. Together they don’t equal Texas in population (30 million for Texas: Denmark 5.8 million, Sweden 10.4 million, Norway 5.4 million, Finland 5.5 million) Should I include Iceland and the Faroe Islands? Second: they are essentially homogeneous. They look like my state, New Hampshire in ethnicity. The US in total looks more like Brazil than any country of Scandinavia and especially if they are taken together. Their gdp per person is Denmark $67,000, Sweden $52,000 Norway $68,000, Finland $49,000 and US $76,000. (Norway essentially has free energy) Is this Jack Fruit vs strawberries? Again the question: why the nonsense comparisons?jerry_{June 13, 2022
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It is pointed out that all the countries compared to the US don’t resemble the US and yet they are repeated.. There is one statistic about the countries listed. They all have substantial gdp per person less than the US.
OK, how about comparing to the Nordic countries, which have a similar per capita GDP.Bob O'H_{June 13, 2022
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F/N: One of the underlying issues: https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/06/its_the_mental_health_system_stupid.html
The elephant in the room is mental health care in America, a problem which makes people uncomfortable and which they would rather not talk about. How bad is it? According to Johns Hopkins University: “An estimated 26% of Americans ages 18 and older -- about 1 in 4 adults -- suffers from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.” [--> 25% roughly] Going further, “Many people suffer from more than one mental disorder at a given time. In particular, depressive illnesses tend to co-occur with substance abuse and anxiety disorders.” [--> Depression is a leading influence on suicide; recall, we are dealing with extended suicides, where, too, worldview and incoherent, unrealistic patterns of thought are strongly implicated in many mental illnesses] They also note that, “9.5% of American adults ages 18 and over, will suffer from a depressive illness (major depression, bipolar disorder, or dysthymia) each year.” [--> about 1 in 10, probably made worse by lockdowns etc] And that, “Approximately 1% of Americans are affected by schizophrenia.” Is there any doubt that if 1 in 4 Americans suffered from breast cancer or AIDS, the attention currently devoted to these illnesses would increase by orders of magnitude? But with mental illness, society and elected officials yawn or awkwardly look the other way. Recent socio-economic conditions are certainly not helping matters . . . . According to the Colorado Coalition for the Homeless, “Research shows that 71 percent of people experiencing homelessness have a mental illness or post-traumatic stress. Additionally, 59 percent are struggling with long- term substance use disorders,” the latter often going hand in hand with mental illness in these situations. If quality mental health care is not available, self-care through street drugs becomes the alternative. [--> apparently 24 out of 25 of institutional beds in institutions that were there in the 50's are now gone under various activist campaigns to de institutionalise]
Tying in crime and mass murder:
A Stanford study reviewed, “35 mass shooting cases that occurred in the United States between 1982 and 2019 and involved shooters who survived and were brought to trial.” They discovered, “28 had mental illness diagnoses. Eighteen had schizophrenia and 10 had other diagnoses including bi-polar disorder, delusional disorder, personality disorders, and substance-related disorders.” 80 percent of mass shooters in this study had a mental illness, undertreated, or not treated at all. [--> we can note that suicide is closely linked to depression] It's not only mass shooters, but other random violent crime. As the New York Post recently reported, a man diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia who does not take his medication regularly was arrested after brutally beating a cell phone store employee in Phoenix. Decades ago, he would have been hospitalized or institutionalized if he was a danger to himself or others. Today he is free to terrorize people.
Something is fundamentally wrong. KFkairosfocus_{June 13, 2022
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JH, I spoke to the Commonwealth cases but principles are far wider. The fundamental difference is I believe there is something that is of the essence or nature of being human and that it confers rights antecedent to any state, with associated duties, and hold the core is self evident. There is no duty to be a victim. I note that a state that is as the US has become has forfeited the presumption of innocence given abuse of law and guilt of blood. As for what I hold please do not project to me what you assume, my views are laid out in 30 above. I suggest you examine the traditional Swiss approach. KFkairosfocus_{June 12, 2022
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KF, this isn’t limited to commonwealth countries. There are many other countries where the use of guns in self defence is not a given. In many US states, you can shoot anyone who is on your property if you believe that your life is threatened (castle laws). That has resulted in numerous people being killed, usually people of colour, because they happened to be in the wrong neighbourhood. Several states also have “stand your ground” laws, which have also resulted in the deaths of many unarmed people. I honestly don’t see the rationale for your opposition to basic gun control. Licensing, waiting period, background checks, etc.JHolo_{June 12, 2022
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PS, a review and excerpts from Locke on self defence https://drrichswier.com/2020/07/04/the-natural-law-of-self-defense/ Ponder here from 799 above:
PS, the underlying issue is, is there a manifest right to and/or duty of effective self defence and defence of the local community from enemies foreign and domestic; in an era of violent lawless nihilism in the street and the halls of government. The US Framers and early modern thinkers traditionally pointed to means of flight or fight built into the bodies of animals and even some plants. Humans are not particularly fast or fearsomely armed but have intelligence and manual dexterity. As Otzi showed, flint knapping, metal making and wood working provided tools, weapons and means of protective mobility as part of our earliest technology in defence of human thriving. Unfortunately for him, he seems to have been ambushed and shot in the back with an arrow. Self defence with effective means provides for thriving of the protected community, its families and individuals. Where, principal-agent theory clearly teaches us a lesson backed by Machiavelli and the collapse of the W Roman Empire alike. Hired protection with monopoly on the means of force soon has its own interests and agendas such that it is likely to manipulate or seize power in pursuit of its own agendas, a known threat to the civil peace of justice. This is part of why the US framers, who had just liberated themselves through having people and communities that were locally and personally armed [minutemen, April 19, 1775], in appending a demanded explicit bill of rights, recognised principles of reasonable armament for local and individual defence, a check and balance to abuses and usurpations. This is, again, implied in the DoI, 1776. Police, national armed forces, courts, elections can all fail or become corrupted, knowing that states and communities can withdraw consent and defend it is a salutary check to and balance of the tendency of agents to compromise the interests of their principals. This implies access of individuals and families to infantry weapons. [Until v recently, in Switzerland one kept a full auto capable battle rifle and ammunition with uniform so one could defend locally and/or fight through to mobilisation centre]. It implies that communities should have local effective control of heavier weapons. It implies the unorganised militia principle in the above, with room for individual conscientious dissent, every able bodied person of relevant age and sound mind is automatically a member of the militia and is liable for conscription. At Chernobyl in 1986, men were taken off the streets and put into the fight with the meltdown, on this self same principle. In that context given limited utility of automatic weapons, semiauto intermediate cartridge arms are reasonable, and reasonable regulations to address criminality are reasonable. In 30 above, I used the militia principle to suggest that abusers of weapons or potential weapons to include vehicles, fertiliser, cooking gas bottles, kitchen knives, utility knives etc, are liable to court martial with full powers. Trial in civil court is a privilege of courtesy for such matters of violation of lawful use of militia equipment. Reasonable armament clearly includes 9 mm semiauto pistols and AR15 or similar semiauto rifles with standard magazines. The sly disarmament by backdoor subterfuges in current exploit the crisis pushes speak to abuses and usurpations. Likewise the refusal to headline and emphasise the case of a car mowing down at a Christmas parade in Wisconsin also speaks. If you think it is bizarre and backward for 100 million Americans to take seriously their self defence, that is suggestive. Especially for someone likely benefitting from the umbrella of the USN and the marines and army they would convey. That holds for Europe, it holds for the ME, it holds for the island chain off China, it holds for Oceania, it holds for the Indian subcontinent and S Asia, it holds for the Americas. 100+ years ago, that was the RN, but now Britain has retired. Who else would back a carrier fleet of about a dozen top level ships, with more of second rank? Without the consent of the US heartlanders, that shield would fail. And don’t suggest NATO or the UN, they already show how they disqualify themselves. Geostrategic vultures are the threat not the defence. Ponder the consequences.
And of course more.kairosfocus_{June 12, 2022
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JH, you still fail to see that self defence by reasonable, effective means is a corollary right to the right to life. There is no duty to be a victim, whatever twisted thinking certain Commonwealth jurisdictions have managed to put on the books. Where, it was precisely the push to disarm colonies facing credible threat that specifically triggered the events of April 19, 1775. KFkairosfocus_{June 12, 2022
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Jerry, you keep saying irrelevant but other than broad generalizations, you have failed to demonstrate why this claim is valid.JHolo_{June 12, 2022
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comparing apples and Jack Fruit
I believe someone used this expression. That’s what you are doing. I’m not sure which is which. Take your pick. The crime/use of guns is in the differences with the US but yet you persist. Everything you say is irrelevant but I guess you know that. The interesting question is why most of your posts are so illogical.jerry_{June 12, 2022
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Jerry: am I point out that countries like Australia, New Zealand and Canada are irrelevant for comparison to the US and immediately there is a rehash of irrelevancies between them and the US.
Claiming comparisons are irrelevant and proving they are are two different things. Canada has large cities, it is racially and culturally diverse, it has homeless and poverty, it has big cities and gangs. It has high divorce rates and single parent families. It has a higher rate of atheism than the US. One thing that is very different is the ready access to weapons.JHolo_{June 12, 2022
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I point out that countries like Australia, New Zealand and Canada are irrelevant for comparison to the US and immediately there is a rehash of irrelevancies between them and the US.
I’m not sure. Is there a term for dismissing comparisons with irrelevant nonsense?
Yes, it is called logic.jerry_{June 12, 2022
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From our friend Wiki about guns used for self defence.
Australia gun laws and self defence: A person must have a firearm licence to possess or use a firearm. Licence holders must demonstrate a "genuine reason" (which does not include self-defence) for holding a firearm licence[2] and must not be a "prohibited person". All firearms must be registered by serial number to the owner, who must also hold a firearms licence. New Zealand gun laws and self defence: In the Arms Code, a manual on firearms safety, the New Zealand Police advise that "[t]he law does not permit the possession of firearms 'in anticipation' that a firearm may need to be used in self-defence." Canada gun laws and self defence: The Firearms Act, 1995 provides a legal framework wherein an individual may acquire, possess, and carry a restricted or (a specific class of) prohibited firearm for protection from other individuals when police protection is deemed insufficient.[56] This situation is extremely rare: the RCMP authorization to carry application refers only to protection of life during employment that involves handling of valuable goods or dangerous wildlife.
I might add that Canada and Australia have safe storage and transportation requirements that would make a firearm ineffective as a defence weapon under most circumstances.JHolo_{June 12, 2022
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https://twitter.com/donwinslow/status/1535814479480430592?s=21&t=SWhQaegBAaCnFiDXfO4noQJHolo_{June 12, 2022
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Jerry: Is there a term for repeating the same irrelevant nonsense over and over?
I’m not sure. Is there a term for dismissing comparisons with irrelevant nonsense?JHolo_{June 12, 2022
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There is a term for willful, closed minded, deaf to fact and reason selectively hyperskeptical, often cynical objectionism, willful obtuseness.kairosfocus_{June 12, 2022
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Is there a term for repeating the same irrelevant nonsense over and over? It is pointed out that all the countries compared to the US don’t resemble the US and yet they are repeated.. There is one statistic about the countries listed. They all have substantial gdp per person less than the US. Maybe that is relevant in addition to ethnic makeup of the poor in US. If one were to look at the areas with high crime/homicide/rates in the US they all would be run by the political faction calling for gun confiscation Everyone who has half a brain and is honest knows this has nothing to do with guns or violence to children.jerry_{June 12, 2022
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Again, as it is being studiously side stepped [another all too typical rhetorical pattern], no one has or can have a duty to be a victim.kairosfocus_{June 11, 2022
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As was long since noted https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-countrykairosfocus_{June 11, 2022
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In states where elected officials have taken action to pass gun safety laws, fewer people die by gun violence. https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/

But there's one thing that is indisputable in the available data on gun violence -- and the data is limited since until recently the federal government was effectively barred from gathering it. The indisputable fact is that where there are more guns, there are more gun deaths. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/26/politics/gun-violence-data-what-matters/index.html
And further:
These are the 20 states with the highest firearm homicide rates in the country along with their gun-friendliness scores: Louisiana: 11.0 (3) Mississippi: 10.2 (5) Alabama: 9.5 (4) Missouri: 8.5 (5) Maryland: 7.4 (1) South Carolina: 7.4 (3) Tennessee: 6.7 (4) Illinois: 6.5 (2) Arkansas: 6.2 (3) Georgia: 6.2 (4) Alaska: 6.0 (5) New Mexico: 5.7 (4) Oklahoma: 5.7 (4) Indiana: 5.3 (4) Delaware: 5.1 (2) North Carolina: 5.0 (4) Nevada: 4.8 (3) Ohio: 4.8 (4) Kentucky: 4.7 (4) Florida: 4.6 (4) https://www.criminalattorneycincinnati.com/comparing-gun-control-measures-to-gun-related-homicides-by-state/
JHolo_{June 11, 2022
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