Defend the Children

_{Barry Arrington
May 24, 2022

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The madness will not end until we grasp the following truths:

1. There are hundreds of millions of guns in the US.

2. Even assuming for the sake of argument that it would be a desirable thing to do, no gun control law can eliminate all or even a small fraction of those guns.

3. Evil men will always be able to get a gun.

4. Schools are soft targets full of defenseless people.

5. We can’t hire enough cops to guard all of those people.

6. We need to equip and train school staff who are willing to do so to defend themselves and the children in their care.

7. Don’t tell me it can’t be done. It is being done in Israel.

Fight me. Show me that one of those statements is false.

Comments

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/ft_22-01-26_gundeaths_4/JHolo_{June 11, 2022
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Typical (Median) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings (U.S., Canada, and Europe, 2009-2015): United States — 0.058 Albania — 0 Austria — 0 Belgium — 0 Czech Republic — 0 Finland — 0 France — 0 Germany — 0 Italy — 0 Macedonia — 0 Netherlands — 0 Norway — 0 Russia — 0 Serbia — 0 Slovakia — 0 Switzerland — 0 United Kingdom — 0
JHolo_{June 11, 2022
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JH, Amazing;y, I just had to comment on your pattern of strawman arguments. Let's see some problems you demonstrated yet again:
KF,883 : >>If self defense is a right, it is a natural right, so no jurisdiction can repeal it, only, it can seek to suppress, leading to incoherent chaos . . . . The direct implication [of Mr Tudeau's comments] is, you have a duty to be a victim [especially in the face of a mob], something so absurd it speaks for itself. Ask the ghosts of the victims of the Holocaust and the Communist tyrannies how that went. Ask the woman trampled by a police horse and ask her why her address now says Florida.>> JH, 886: "using a gun for self-defence has never been a right in Canada."
In short, you here misrepresent what a core right is, and its root. In this case, the corollary right to defend oneself by effective means when one's life is threatened; life, being the first right. That is, core rights are not grants of the state, to be given or withheld at will, as say the Nazis did in Germany. And it is not for nothing that it was pointed out that Mr Trudeau et al even in Canada are protected by armed guards. This error is tied to the positivist view of law, which obviously opens the door to will to power nihilism. Core rights are rooted in our nature, and can neither be granted nor withdrawn by the state or its agents. What a sound state does is to acknowledge those rights, and certainly it does not inject the absurdity that those who are deemed worthy have protection but Lebensunwertes Leben are stripped of such protection. Of course, this breakdown extends to the single biggest instance of violence in our contemporary world, every week another million of our living posterity are slaughtered, adding to a total that per statistical reports exceeds 1.4 billions since the turn of the 70's. As for major cultural and historical differences between the US and neighbours, those have been noted but ignored. The underlying issue, in both criminality and state overreach, is nihilism which sets at zero as it wishes, here, the right to self defence by effective means. There is no duty to be a victim. KFkairosfocus_{June 11, 2022
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KF@884, using a gun for self-defence has never been a right in Canada. Neither has using force to protect your property. And this approach has worked very well. Canada has a lower homicide rate, a lower violent crime rate and a lower robbery rate than the US, where you have the right to use a gun to defend yourself and, in many states, to defend property.JHolo_{June 11, 2022
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A data base of self defense using guns. https://datavisualizations.heritage.org/firearms/defensive-gun-uses-in-the-us/jerry_{June 11, 2022
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Right on cue: https://thepostmillennial.com/watch-trudeau-says-using-a-gun-for-self-defence-is-not-a-right-that-you-have-in-canada/
"There are debates," Trudeau continued, "and we have a culture where the difference is, guns can be used for hunting or for sport-shooting in Canada, and there are lots of gun owners, and they're mostly law-respecting and law abiding, but you can't use a gun for self-protection in Canada. That's not a right that you have in the Constitution or anywhere else." "If you try and buy a gun and say it's for self-protection," Trudeau said, "No, you don't get that."
1: If self defense is a right, it is a natural right, so no jurisdiction can repeal it, only, it can seek to suppress, leading to incoherent chaos. 2: This is the same positivist error resurfacing. 3: The direct implication is, you have a duty to be a victim [especially in the face of a mob], something so absurd it speaks for itself. Ask the ghosts of the victims of the Holocaust and the Communist tyrannies how that went. Ask the woman trampled by a police horse and ask her why her address now says Florida. 4: The invited suggestion that the majority of firearms owners next door are lawless is equally nonsensical. 5: Raw power grab, pivoting on the notion that law is whatever those who control the legal presses decree. That's why justice -- due balance of rights, freedoms, duties -- is being frustrated. 6: The fundamental error is that of imagining one can soundly decree that a nine sided polygon is a hexagon. KFkairosfocus_{June 11, 2022
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JH, you refuse to attend to the balance of the case, the same error General Thomas Gage made; he clearly failed to understand the matches he was playing with. In addition, let me note another factor: power factions stained with the blood of 63 millions killed under false colour of law, who are playing reichstag fire incident games -- learn from history do not cynically label and dismiss it -- and are targetting the lawful not the lawless do not have a great deal of credibility, eg the latest resort to deceptive editing in service to show trials does not help. But then, there is already enough on the table to make the point, including correctives on crime and violence rates. At this point, that locked in approach is further evidence on why absent something of an undeserved grace, this is headed to disaster with even worse geostrategic consequences. KFkairosfocus_{June 11, 2022
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KF: April 19, 1775
Not relevant to the issue of the disproportionate incidents of Gun violence and mass shootings in the US. Maybe you should raise the Hitler card.JHolo_{June 10, 2022
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April 19, 1775kairosfocus_{June 10, 2022
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Relatd: Yes, I did misunderstand. Sorry.
Not to worry. If I had a nickel for every comment I misunderstood, I would be a rich man.JHolo_{June 10, 2022
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JHolo at 878, Yes, I did misunderstand. Sorry.relatd_{June 10, 2022
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Relatd: JHolo at 871, You apparently do not think well.
I’m afraid you misunderstood my comment. It was intended to relay the fact that those who are willing to use their guns to prevent the government from taking their guns are clearly delusional.JHolo_{June 10, 2022
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ET: Makes me think of Nazi Germany, JHolo
And, surprisingly, most developed countries have a level of gun control much more restrictive than that in the US, and they didn’t trigger a NAZI regime.JHolo_{June 10, 2022
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PPS, let's follow up: https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/12/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook/
How the Nazis Used Gun Control Share By Stephen P. Halbrook December 2, 2013 9:00 AM . . . In 1931, Weimar authorities discovered plans for a Nazi takeover in which Jews would be denied food and persons refusing to surrender their guns within 24 hours would be executed. They were written by Werner Best, a future Gestapo official. In reaction to such threats, the government authorized the registration of all firearms and the confiscation thereof, if required for “public safety.” The interior minister warned that the records must not fall into the hands of any extremist group. In 1933, the ultimate extremist group, led by Adolf Hitler, seized power and used the records to identify, disarm, and attack political opponents and Jews. Constitutional rights were suspended, and mass searches for and seizures of guns and dissident publications ensued. Police revoked gun licenses of Social Democrats and others who were not “politically reliable.” During the five years of repression that followed, society was “cleansed” by the National Socialist regime. Undesirables were placed in camps where labor made them “free,” and normal rights of citizenship were taken from Jews. The Gestapo banned independent gun clubs and arrested their leaders. Gestapo counsel Werner Best issued a directive to the police forbidding issuance of firearm permits to Jews. In 1938, Hitler signed a new Gun Control Act. Now that many “enemies of the state” had been removed from society, some restrictions could be slightly liberalized, especially for Nazi Party members. But Jews were prohibited from working in the firearms industry, and .22 caliber hollow-point ammunition was banned. The time had come to launch a decisive blow to the Jewish community, to render it defenseless so that its “ill-gotten” property could be redistributed as an entitlement to the German “Volk.” The German Jews were ordered to surrender all their weapons, and the police had the records on all who had registered them. Even those who gave up their weapons voluntarily were turned over to the Gestapo.
The central issue is not firearms, it is nihilism. KFkairosfocus_{June 10, 2022
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Relatd & JH, it is not the individual in isolation, it is the train of will to power abuses and usurpations to get there, that points to balkanised disintegration of the societal compact. That is why some pols have talked about nukes and armoured forces. This is also why the imposition of mass slaughter of living posterity under colour of law and the extreme threats used to try to sustain it are also pivotal: life is the first right. Unfortunately, given the linchpin role of the US Navy in global stability, chaos in the US will predictably have grave geostrategic consequences. Those who have been pushing, pushing, playing reichstag fire incident games and neatly sidestepping what does not fit their agenda (e.g. the car attack in Wisconsin two days after Rittenhouse's self defence argument won his case) are playing with big matches next to a powder keg. KF PS, were the Jews allowed to "keep" their rights, not just their weapons?kairosfocus_{June 10, 2022
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Paxx at 870, Another invincible person who has a large weapons supply. The U.S. government has the time and the manpower to dig you out and take your weapons.relatd_{June 10, 2022
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ET at 872, Back to the favorite villain, NAZIs? What do you know about "Nazi" Germany? I had a relative who was in Nazi Germany during the war. He had a gun. He was neither a Nazi or German. JHolo at 871, You apparently do not think well. When your group armed with dozens of assault rifles and hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition are surrounded by U.S. government agents in your underground bunker, how long do you think you'll last? When the tear gas starts seeping in, it won't be long. Back when the Second Amendment was written, they did not have the armored vehicles and listening devices that will be used against you.relatd_{June 10, 2022
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Makes me think of Nazi Germany, JHoloET_{June 10, 2022
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Does the fact that people would be willing to use their guns to prevent the government from taking them away their guns not make people think?JHolo_{June 10, 2022
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Here's the thing: We're not giving up our guns. So piss off.Paxx_{June 9, 2022
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Jerry re 853 Thanks for the link, that was an excellent analysis. Vividvividbleau_{June 9, 2022
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The Epoch Times !!! The Propaganda Rag ??!!!!??? Forget about this person. I can tell everyone with confidence that we never left Feudal Times. Kings no longer wear robes or crowns but continue as Presidents and Prime Ministers. The peasants are still the working class. Today, the idle rich have a new toy - the internet - to amuse themselves with. They can spread fake information globally, and in multiple languages, almost instantly. They have created fake money and insist it's real. They have burned a lot of electricity in the NON- ""mining"" of Bitcoin. So the wealthy and the landowners are still in charge, and some are inclined to follow whim and personal fancy. And why not? Especially when the world is your own personal oyster.relatd_{June 9, 2022
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In 2007 Naomi Wolf was still a well credentialed progressive who wrote a long article in the Guardian about a coup by the fascist Bush administration. Now that she has abandoned many of her left leanings, she is persona non grata. Here is what she wrote 15 years ago when she was a darling of the left.
Fascist America, in 10 easy steps Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy Create a gulag Develop a thug caste Set up an internal surveillance system Harass citizens' groups Engage in arbitrary detention and release Target key individuals Control the press Dissent equals treason Suspend the rule of law
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment Now an article about her and the current world. https://www.theepochtimes.com/naomi-wolf-were-now-in-the-last-stage-of-a-tyrannical-takeover_4513369.htmljerry_{June 9, 2022
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Jerry and others here repeatedly claim that the world’s security and freedoms are dependent on the US. If this is true, then US policies are definitely my business
Yes! But one has to be able to differentiate between unrelated things when the only connection is that both could be true. There is a lot of conflating of irrelevant things going on in this thread. And most are missing the basic point. Which is why Big Tech and Big Money are behind all the attempted oppression going on?jerry_{June 9, 2022
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Paxx: You being a Canadian, this is all really none of your business.
Actually I am Australian, originally from Canada. And with regard to it being my business, Jerry and others here repeatedly claim that the world’s security and freedoms are dependent on the US. If this is true, then US policies are definitely my business.JHolo_{June 9, 2022
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Paxx, good points generally. I do note, there are potential geostrategic, global consequences that are a lot more frightening than April 19, 1775. That means we are all stakeholders, but so many are taken in by clever talk points and media dominance, including when one does a search. The other day searching on cannabis concerns, I saw how that manipulation covers everything. KFkairosfocus_{June 9, 2022
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JH, crocodile death roll involving turnabout projection. Meanwhile you are not cogently addressing the issues on the table, 850, that start with
What part of, those whose hands are stained with democide under false colour of law to the tune of 63 millions growing at 25,000 more per week long term average have forfeited the presumption of innocence, do you fail to recognise? Apart from, what part of the many cat out of bag statements and the implications, auras and penumbras of precedents do you not understand? For example, a seemingly innocuous allegedly ban on magazines can effectively ban classes of firearms, the magazine being a key part of functionality. Where, a pattern of lying, slander, lawfare and reichstag fire incident exploitation of incidents further degrades community social capital, with several contrasting cases being highly instructive on the nihilism at work. That is part of why the US DoI speaks of a long train of abuses and usurpations. That is also part of why I am warning — it is a warning — on potential flashpoints.
Track record has consequences and we are dealing with the same factions that for 49 years have advanced mass slaughter of the defenceless unborn under colour of law, rights and freedom [to kill at will]. 49 years is long enough to be well within long train of abuses and usurpations territory. Of course, you will not substantially address Heller, you will simply spout twisted misreadings that Heller exposed. Further reason to take you as less than credible with words. Far above and in your presence this was addressed. The fundamental problem is there has been material breach of trust, coming from factions that embedded mass killing of the defenceless innocent under colour of law. Until that is dealt with, nothing can be resolved. And no, continued projections and drumbeat repetitions of long since cogently answered assertions simply show further the breach of the civil compact. Of course, these are ever so many tangents away from the issues in OP and which I amplified in 30 above. https://uncommondescent.com/off-topic/defend-the-children/#comment-755900 KFkairosfocus_{June 9, 2022
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JHolo: well regulated In 1789 "well regulated" simply meant "well functioning." The "militia" is every able bodied man. It has nothing to do with "government regulation" as is known today. "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" still means exactly that. Heller vs D.C. settled the matter. I suggest you read Federalist Paper 29. Driving Driving isn't a Constitutional right. I would be very happy if similar requirements were applied to gun ownership. Wouldn't matter to the criminals who want to commit crimes. If you are really concerned for children's lives in schools, get behind making schools secure and safe regardless of gun laws. You being a Canadian, this is all really none of your business.Paxx_{June 9, 2022
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KF: Any one seeking to impose a novel reading of the US Const 2nd Amdt needs to substantially address Heller
I wasn’t aware that the 19 children were killed by a well regulated militia.
PS, Why is it that firearms use and safety is not a routine part of high school curricula, similar to driving?
Driving isn’t part of the routine curriculum. But if you want to drive you have to demonstrate that you can safely and competently operate a motorized vehicle, understand the rules of the road and obtain a licence that must be renewed on a scheduled frequency. I would be very happy if similar requirements were applied to gun ownership.JHolo_{June 9, 2022
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KF: PS, on turnabout tactics exposed. Yup, we have seen them before here at UD.
Demonstrating that someone is guilty of the same thing that they are accusing others of is not a turnabout projection. It is simply a statement of fact. For example, you keep accusing me of raising strawman arguments. If I am doing this it is because your arguments are almost indecipherable, not an intentional tactic on my part. But when I point out that I have never suggested disarming the citizenry, your responding arguments are about the dangers of disarming the citizenry. This is a glaring example of a strawman argument.JHolo_{June 9, 2022
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