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Off-topic: Does a man’s honour really “lie between the legs of a woman”?

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Millions of men believe and act on that, as a murder trial was recently told by an expert witness, a refugee from Iran. In a global society, we need a philosophically coherent means of confronting cultures that believe and act on such views, not an excuse for accommodating them.

The trial in question features a couple and their son, charged with killing four women (all but one is a close relative). The expert said,

In some cultures, women are considered the property of men; men are responsible for controlling their behaviour, particularly their sexuality; a woman even perceived to be out of control reflects on the man’s honour, and “the way to deal with the dishonouring is through the shedding of blood. . . . It’s a way of purifying the honour of the family and the community.”

The drowned Shafia sisters, Zainab 19, Sahar 17, Geeti 13 and their father’s “other” wife were all found in a black Nissan submerged at the Kingston Mills (Ontario) lock on June 30, 2009. The family’s inability to give a straightforward account of the dreadful incident first alerted the police.


See also: When we celebrate “diversity,” what exactly are we celebrating?

And Is it still wrong if another culture says it is right? A teacher’s surprising discovery about what today’s students are really learning.

Note: UD news staff have all been off sick. Regular coverage resumes shortly.

OK wait- if women are the property of men, does that mean if the women have children those children are also the men's property? And wouldn't that then mean that those same men are someone's property? Can property haz other property? And if the women are property and another man haz her, wouldn't that be trespassing, not adultry? Joe
You asserted without any evidence that "this story does not misrepresent Islam". Can you provide any evidence, in the form of credible Islamic legal rulings, that would justify the murder of three daughters and an ex wife on account of "honour"? Alan
If God says so its right. Its a high standard to show mankind why we can't keep the standard. Thats why its Christmas. Jesus said even thoughts counted as adultery and deserved death. this case in cAnada shows how terrible it is in Canada today with massive immigration and of these peoples most unlike us. most Iranians are not like that but still yuck. There goes the neighbourhood. i don't welcome these people here but while they are still here they must obey our moral beliefs on such important matters and the laws thereof. Robert Byers
Hey, let’s see what the Bible says…. If a girl is not a virgin on her wedding night, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death.
Hmmm... What else does it say? Oh, yeah, when Mary was found to be with child, Joseph resolved to divorce her quietly to keep from putting her to shame. Instead of stoning her. And we are told that he did this because he was a righteous man. Please save your quote mining for the rabid atheist blogs. M. Holcumbrink
But Alan, this story does not misrepresent Islam. That is the point. What this man did is an accepted Islamic practice in traditional Islamic societies, and that is why the author raises the question of how do we respond to it. Of course anyone can call himself a Muslim and then decide to be anti-murder; but it's also true that any man can call himself a Christian and then declare that Buddha is God; and any person can claim to be a Marxist and then fight for a free market. The trouble is that Muslims and their sympathizers routinely deflect any honest criticism by pointing us toward such differences...as if the western world was not aware that there are different kinds of Muslims. But nobody is claiming that Islam is not diverse. Nobody is claiming that everyone who prays toward Mecca believes the exact same thing. What they ARE claiming is that there is a significant people group that calls itself Muslim and, because of its religion, DOES endorse and practice honor killing and other such atrocities. APM
The alleged perpetrators of these murders are being tried under the Criminal Code of Canada. In Canada, no one cares what various religious codes in various places say. People simply do not accommodate murder. Strange, but true. Check the crime rate. If you are so interested, have you considered a night school course in law? News
new Dr. Craig video -
Did God Command Genocide in the Bible? William Lane Craig vs Richard Dawkins http://www.youtube.com/user/drcraigvideos#p/a/u/0/bOgSxv37SbE
News, whoever you really are: Please suggest a "philosophically coherent means of confronting cultures that believe and act on" the WORD OF GOD. And I don't want to hear any "excuse(s) for accommodating them.". Jello
When some Darwinists struggle to deal with the arguments from ID opponents, they turn reflexively to demonizing and missrepresenting ID and ID proponents instead. ID proponents easily recognize this behaviour, so it is Ironic that a Christian ID proponent would choose to make scarely veiled attacks on the Islam using the same strategy of demonization and missrepresentation. While cherry picking instances of horrific brutality in the Islamic world is not likely to convince any Mulsims that Islam is a bad religion, selectively feeding such images to a captive Christian audience might well be an effective stategy by which to radicalise individuals to take up the "crusade". Whatever crusade the author is on, it would be better, for the sake of the ID movement, offering as it does a chance to bridge some of the gaps between the theistic faiths, to keep ID separate fom politics. If anyone really believes that demonizing and missrepresenting other faiths is a good idea, I'm pleased for them, but there are website set up specifically for that purpose. Alan
Jello, whoever you really are: These people are not being tried by the Old Testament. They are being tried in a courtroom in modern North America under English Common Law - by far the greatest achievement of the English-speaking peoples. Incidentally, to discourage you from looking unnecessarily foolish, we should point out that Christian-origin legal systems are based originally in Roman law, not Old Testament law. But go on and look foolish. We're all watching, briefly. News
Hey, let's see what the Bible says.... If a girl is not a virgin on her wedding night, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death. A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. Anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death. Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. ....OK, let's not. Jello

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