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Off topic: Single payer health care

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Here I was recently treated to an interesting display of Darwinist logic.

A commenter demanded that I provide proof that in a single-payer health system like Canada’s, older people are being abandoned to die. Another suggested I just shut up about it.

Sorry. Go here for how bad it can get.

It’s a matter of simple logic, really. Sarah Palin’s death panels are alive and well in Canada because we have a single government payer health system.

I don’t care what you think of Palin. But this much I know is true:

If the government is the only entity permitted to open a new bed in a hospital, this is what happens: You have a 55 year-old high school math teacher (Old Lady Smith*) and a 75 year-old retired high school math teacher (Old Lady Jones).

Who gets the bed? Who gets shunted off to die somewhere?

The obvious solution is more beds. But if only the government can pay …

The big problem with single payer government systems is that everyone is into government’s pocket for anything from an Olympic skating pavilion to new benches in the public park.

Only a few people have serious core health care issues, and they are usually diverse. So the lobby is small, fragmented, largely unheard.

Hey, if you can figure that one out, you are smarter than some of our commenters/trolls/ex-trolls.

The last time I took a politics test, I flunked “right wingness”, which is fine with me. I am talking about a practical issue. In Canada, Old Lady Jones isn’t legally allowed to just make her own arrangements, assuming she wants to be 85 or so before she pegs out.

I was intrigued by the difficulty some Darwinists had understanding her problem (= she needs a hospital bed but can’t legally pay for one), when it is a matter of simple logic.

Maybe they overdosed on “natural selection” and “the mind is an illusion created by neurons”?

*No, Old Lady Smith is not old by my standards, but that is how the teens on whom she forces algebra regard her. They can’t believe she ever had a life, even if she has a husband and six kids, which pretty much guarantees you would have a life.

Meanwhile, “Now, class, please turn to page 63 …. Factorials.”

Comments
Voting Granny off the Island is an entirely different type of question. It is a core ethical question.
And we are still waiting to see you substantiate the claim that the Canadian government does this.Heinrich
October 11, 2009
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Kyrilluk at 3, I am describing Canada, not France. So is Blazing Cat Fur. Can we send all our old ladies to France? Please provide details. In an earlier post, I had suggested sending them to Graceland, but remember, I ain't nothin' but a houn' dog and I don't even get Graceland. Core health services ("doctors don't keep you alive; we nurses do"*) are a government monopoly in Canada, but that makes them difficult to fund, in light of other demands. Non-core services can be bought privately (= tummy tucks and boob jobs). *I am impressed and moved by the quality of our paramedics but saddened by the difficulty of providing enough longer term care beds. If you come off a highway accident in Canada, you will get the best care in the world. I have seen the gurneys lined up in rows in the emerg after a blizzard, with all the injured tucked into wrapware. The problem is what happens if you need longer term care. While we are here, my point about Graceland in the post that prompted the "shut up" response was this: A prosperous, stable democracy like Canada should have the following type of problem: It turns out - counterfactually in this particular case - that the government spent $60 million gratifying the wishes of elderly ladies to visit Graceland (recreational therapy?). Is that a wise use of public funds? Doubtless, a big hoo-haw would ensue in Parliament, with eloquence on both sides. Voting Granny off the Island is an entirely different type of question. It is a core ethical question.O'Leary
October 11, 2009
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Frankly, I don't understand the position of people who don't want a national health care system. In France and in most of Europe anyway, this is so common that when we hear about countries that don't have one, we usually think about Africa or Bangladesh... Regarding your Old ladies, if it was in France, they would have had beds, both of them. And then, back to their home, they would have had nurse taking care of them. Free of charge. Now, private hospital and clinics do exists. This is if you want 3 stars menu and your own room and can afford it. On the other hand, if your "old" ladies don't have insurances in your country, what happen to them? Are they left to die?Kyrilluk
October 11, 2009
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I also participated in this discussion. When you say one person suggested you shut up I guess you are referring to Nakashima's comment #2 which finished with "Mrs O’Leary – please stop. Please." I was rather surprised by this as he is one of the politest and most logical posters on this forum. I suspect there was something missing from the comment. Nevertheless it is hardly the same as "shut up". As to the other comment. Is it bad form to ask for proof of what you assert? Meanwhile you appear to be saying it is illegal in Canada for anyone to provide healthcare except the government. The Wikipedia entry seems to be saying something different. Is it wrong?Mark Frank
October 11, 2009
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A commenter demanded that I provide proof that in a single-payer health system like Canada’s, older people are being abandoned to die. Another suggested I just shut up about it. Sorry. Go here for how bad it can get.
The link describes a case where an old lady receives care, and is not "abandoned to die". Yes, the standard of care given was way below what we might expect, but it does nothing to answer the question asked.Heinrich
October 11, 2009
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