A classic in scientism: ‘In Science Lives Hope.’

_{Denyse O'Leary

March 12, 2023

Intelligent Design, Philosophy, Science}

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At The Stream, a comment on a local billboard slogan for the city’s star research hospital:

‘In Science Lives Hope.’
I don’t want to make too much of a local city advertising campaign, but do you see the reflection of scientism in this billboard? It’s not just that science is a valuable pursuit. We live in a culture that thinks science is the pathway to hope.
This is the ultimate promise of scientism. And the first thing you should notice is that it’s not a scientific claim. You can’t do a science experiment to prove that “in science lives hope.” And you can’t use science to show that science is the only way to know things. That’s because those kinds of claims aren’t scientific. At best, they are philosophical. And in the end, they’re really religious. – Bob Perry (March 11, 2023)

Other bad things follow too (cf the potential risks of any religion):

Science gets defined as “hope,” no matter what is really going on.
Actual science gets suppressed in favour of an Establishment “hope parade.”
People who call out the bad stuff become heretics, not just critics. We saw plenty of that during the COVID crazy.

But hey, they voted for it, paid for it, they own it so…

Meanwhile, heartfelt apologies from a newly Unwokened writer. There is hope but it is not from “Trust the Science!”

Comments

I've often wondered why the Darwinian atheists here on UD dedicate so much of their precious little time here on this earth trying to promote Darwinian evolution? and trashing God in general and Christianity in particular? It seems very much like they are pathologically driven by some deep and ultimate purpose to try to distance themselves, and everyone else, from God and Christianity. The irony being, of course, if their worldview is actually true, (and thank God it isn't), then there are no deep and ultimate purposes for anything we do in life. According to Darwinian atheism "There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal-directed forces of any kind" and "there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
"When you die, you’re not going to be surprised, because you’re going to be completely dead. Now if I find myself aware after I’m dead, I’m going to be really surprised! But at least I’m going to go to hell, where I won’t have all of those grinning preachers from Sunday morning listening. Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear — and these are basically Darwin’s views. There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either. What an unintelligible idea." - William Provine - said in a 1994 debate with Phil Johnson at Stanford University: "In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” - Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life
But if, as Darwin atheists hold, there are no ultimate purposes and meanings for life, then why in blue blazes, as atheistic philosopher Alex Rosenberg asked, "bother getting out of bed(?). The self is just another illusion, like the illusion that thought is about stuff or that we carry around plans and purposes that give meaning to what our body does."
"There is no self in, around, or as part of anyone’s body. There can’t be. So there really isn’t any enduring self that ever could wake up morning after morning worrying about why it should bother getting out of bed. The self is just another illusion, like the illusion that thought is about stuff or that we carry around plans and purposes that give meaning to what our body does. Every morning’s introspectively fantasized self is a new one, remarkably similar to the one that consciousness ceased fantasizing when we fell sleep sometime the night before. Whatever purpose yesterday’s self thought it contrived to set the alarm last night, today’s newly fictionalized self is not identical to yesterday’s. It’s on its own, having to deal with the whole problem of why to bother getting out of bed all over again." - Alex Rosenberg, The Atheist’s Guide to Reality, ch.10
So we have a deep irony here. Under Darwinian atheism, nothing really matters. There are no ultimate purposes or meanings for anything we do in this life. We live, we die, and no one, and no thing, will ever remember anything that anyone has ever done on this planet. Darwinian atheists simply have no good reason for why they "bother getting out of bed". Under Darwinian atheism it is all complete and utter Nihilistic doom! Nothing matters. Yet, as Darwinian atheists themselves here on UD give ample evidence to, they, in their seemingly obsessive compulsion to, day in and day out, trash God and Christianity, act very much as if their lives do have some ultimate purpose and meaning. In short, the Darwinist's atheistic worldview, and the way they are actually living their lives, are in direct contradiction with each other. And this should be no surprise. It is simply impossible for Darwinists, or anyone else, to live their lives as if atheistic naturalism is actually true and as if their lives had no real meaning or purpose. As the following review of Thomas Nagel's book, "Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature Is Almost Certainly False", noted, "materialists never put their money where their mouth is. Nobody thinks his daughter is just molecules in motion and nothing but; nobody thinks the Holocaust was evil, but only in a relative, provisional sense. A materialist who lived his life according to his professed convictions—understanding himself to have no moral agency at all, seeing his friends and enemies and family as genetically determined robots—wouldn’t just be a materialist: He’d be a psychopath."
The Heretic - Who is Thomas Nagel and why are so many of his fellow academics condemning him? - March 25, 2013 Excerpt: Neo-Darwinism insists that every phenomenon, every species, every trait of every species, is the consequence of random chance, as natural selection requires. And yet, Nagel says, “certain things are so remarkable that they have to be explained as non-accidental if we are to pretend to a real understanding of the world.”,,, ,,,Fortunately, materialism is never translated into life as it’s lived. As colleagues and friends, husbands and mothers, wives and fathers, sons and daughters, materialists never put their money where their mouth is. Nobody thinks his daughter is just molecules in motion and nothing but; nobody thinks the Holocaust was evil, but only in a relative, provisional sense. A materialist who lived his life according to his professed convictions—understanding himself to have no moral agency at all, seeing his friends and enemies and family as genetically determined robots—wouldn’t just be a materialist: He’d be a psychopath. https://www.sott.net/article/260160-The-Heretic-Who-is-Thomas-Nagel-and-why-are-so-many-of-his-fellow-academics-condemning-him
Leading evolutionary materialists themselves have honestly admitted that they don't live their lives as if their atheistic materialism were actually true.
Darwin's Robots: When Evolutionary Materialists Admit that Their Own Worldview Fails - Nancy Pearcey - April 23, 2015 Excerpt: Even materialists often admit that, in practice, it is impossible for humans to live any other way. One philosopher jokes that if people deny free will, then when ordering at a restaurant they should say, "Just bring me whatever the laws of nature have determined I will get." An especially clear example is Galen Strawson, a philosopher who states with great bravado, "The impossibility of free will ... can be proved with complete certainty." Yet in an interview, Strawson admits that, in practice, no one accepts his deterministic view. "To be honest, I can't really accept it myself," he says. "I can't really live with this fact from day to day. Can you, really?",,, In What Science Offers the Humanities, Edward Slingerland, identifies himself as an unabashed materialist and reductionist. Slingerland argues that Darwinian materialism leads logically to the conclusion that humans are robots -- that our sense of having a will or self or consciousness is an illusion. Yet, he admits, it is an illusion we find impossible to shake. No one "can help acting like and at some level really feeling that he or she is free." We are "constitutionally incapable of experiencing ourselves and other conspecifics [humans] as robots." One section in his book is even titled "We Are Robots Designed Not to Believe That We Are Robots.",,, When I teach these concepts in the classroom, an example my students find especially poignant is Flesh and Machines by Rodney Brooks, professor emeritus at MIT. Brooks writes that a human being is nothing but a machine -- a "big bag of skin full of biomolecules" interacting by the laws of physics and chemistry. In ordinary life, of course, it is difficult to actually see people that way. But, he says, "When I look at my children, I can, when I force myself, ... see that they are machines." Is that how he treats them, though? Of course not: "That is not how I treat them.... I interact with them on an entirely different level. They have my unconditional love, the furthest one might be able to get from rational analysis." Certainly if what counts as "rational" is a materialist worldview in which humans are machines, then loving your children is irrational. It has no basis within Brooks's worldview. It sticks out of his box. How does he reconcile such a heart-wrenching cognitive dissonance? He doesn't. Brooks ends by saying, "I maintain two sets of inconsistent beliefs." He has given up on any attempt to reconcile his theory with his experience. He has abandoned all hope for a unified, logically consistent worldview. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/04/when_evolutiona095451.html
Shoot, even Richard Dawkins himself honestly admitted that it would be 'intolerable' for him to live his life as if his atheistic materialism were actually true,
Who wrote Richard Dawkins’s new book? – October 28, 2006 Excerpt: Dawkins: What I do know is that what it feels like to me, and I think to all of us, we don't feel determined. We feel like blaming people for what they do or giving people the credit for what they do. We feel like admiring people for what they do.,,, Manzari: But do you personally see that as an inconsistency in your views? Dawkins: I sort of do. Yes. But it is an inconsistency that we sort of have to live with otherwise life would be intolerable. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2006/10/who_wrote_richard_dawkinss_new002783.html
In what should be needless to say, if it is impossible for a person to live consistently as if their atheistic worldview were actually true, then their atheistic worldview cannot possibly reflect reality as it really is but their atheistic worldview must instead be based on a delusion.
Existential Argument against Atheism - November 1, 2013 by Jason Petersen 1. If a worldview is true then you should be able to live consistently with that worldview. 2. Atheists are unable to live consistently with their worldview. 3. If you can’t live consistently with an atheist worldview then the worldview does not reflect reality. 4. If a worldview does not reflect reality then that worldview is a delusion. 5. If atheism is a delusion then atheism cannot be true. Conclusion: Atheism is false. - per answers for hope
Moreover, although atheists hold that our lives here on this earth have no ultimate meaning and purpose, I have news for them, everything we do and say on this earth has far greater meaning, purpose, and significance than we can possibly imagine. Around the 20 minute mark of the following Near Death Experience documentary, the Life Review portion of the Near Death Experience is highlighted, with several testimonies relating how every word, thought, deed, and action, of a person's life is gone over in the presence of God almighty:
Near Death Experience Documentary – commonalities of the experience – video https://youtu.be/5uDA4RgHolw?t=1200
Of course, atheists resolutely deny the reality of NDEs and/or life after death. But I simply note that the evidence for the validity of NDEs, and/or life after death, is far more compelling than the evidence for Darwinian evolution is.
Near-Death Experiences: Putting a Darwinist's Evidentiary Standards to the Test - Dr. Michael Egnor - October 15, 2012 Excerpt: Indeed, about 20 percent of NDE's are corroborated, which means that there are independent ways of checking about the veracity of the experience. The patients knew of things that they could not have known except by extraordinary perception -- such as describing details of surgery that they watched while their heart was stopped, etc. Additionally, many NDE's have a vividness and a sense of intense reality that one does not generally encounter in dreams or hallucinations.,,, The most "parsimonious" explanation -- the simplest scientific explanation -- is that the (Near Death) experience was real. Tens of millions of people have had such experiences. That is tens of millions of more times than we have observed the origin of species , (or the origin of life, or the origin of a protein/gene, or of a molecular machine), which is never.,,, The materialist reaction, in short, is unscientific and close-minded. NDE's show fellows like Coyne at their sneering unscientific irrational worst. Somebody finds a crushed fragment of a fossil and it's earth-shaking evidence. Tens of million of people have life-changing spiritual experiences and it's all a big yawn. Note: Dr. Egnor is professor and vice-chairman of neurosurgery at the State University of New York at Stony Brook. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/10/near_death_expe_1065301.html
So thus in conclusion, far from the complete and utter Nihilistic doom that atheists envision for humanity, it turns out that, in reality, we really do have a very good reason to get out of bed each and every morning. Our lives, every nook and cranny of them, really do have far greater purpose, meaning, and significance than we can possibly imagine right now. And that is VERY good news.
Luke 12: 6-7 Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. So do not be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. Mark 8:37 Is anything worth more than your soul?
bornagain77_{March 17, 2023
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“Well, I made a difference for that one!”
Uncommon Descent Global Rank #448,420 Country Rank #50,678 Category Rank #784 Total Visits 120.6K Last Month Change 11.83% Avg Visit Duration 00:06:43 Bounce Rate 31.75% Pages per Visit 2.13 Avg Visit Duration 00:06:43 https://www.similarweb.com/website/uncommondescent.com/#overview uncommondescent.com vs. theskepticalzone.com Ranking Comparison Total Visits 120.6K 22.4K uncommondescent.com #784 theskepticalzone.com #7,955 https://www.similarweb.com/website/uncommondescent.com/vs/theskepticalzone.com/#ranking A young girl was walking along a beach upon which thousands of starfish had been washed up during a terrible storm. When she came to each starfish, she would pick it up, and throw it back into the ocean. People watched her with amusement. She had been doing this for some time when a man approached her and said, “Little girl, why are you doing this? Look at this beach! You can’t save all these starfish. You can’t begin to make a difference!” The girl seemed crushed, suddenly deflated. But after a few moments, she bent down, picked up another starfish, and hurled it as far as she could into the ocean. Then she looked up at the man and replied, “Well, I made a difference for that one!” https://www.thestarfishchange.org/starfish-tale
Verse:
1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
bornagain77_{March 17, 2023
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JVL and PM!, Then why post here? Zero effect on the world and No one is paying attention. Yet here you are.relatd_{March 16, 2023
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has zero effect on the world
True! The pro ID posters here could care less about ID. The anti ID posters have contributed zero on anything. If anyone has contributed anything positive, it’s a rarity. It’s a place mainly for ranting.jerry_{March 16, 2023
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All us unguided evolution defenders could stop commenting here and nothing would change. Nothing. No one is paying any attention.
Completely agree. Uncommon Descent is sometimes enjoyable but has zero effect on the world.PyrrhoManiac1_{March 16, 2023
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Relatd: But you guys must – MUST – continue to hold some ground here. If you didn’t do this, the massive swarms of ID troops will win the day and convince the world. Not even close. The truth is that almost no one cares what is posted here. The Discovery Institute doesn't care, Dr Behe doesn't care, mainstream science doesn't care. All us unguided evolution defenders could stop commenting here and nothing would change. Nothing. No one is paying any attention.JVL_{March 16, 2023
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In that respect, ID is abject failure……..
How is that? ID represents the best scientific thinking on the planet. There is no way it is a failure. ID is science+ jerry_{March 16, 2023
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Jerry, Repeating the old "Evolution is a fact."? Based on what? I should get that line Trademarked. Your lengthy explanation is a lengthy explanation with very little, if any, explanatory value. You seem to think irreducible complexity applies then mix it in with randomness. Facts, not speculation, please.relatd_{March 16, 2023
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You know better than this Jerry. Let’s get a good definition of Evolution first.
No, it’s definitely a fact. Didn’t you see my sentence?
Just what caused it is the issue
For a definition see
The term “Evolution mean tiers 2 and 3 of this discription of life changes which was put forward 17 years ago here. No one disagreed with the distinctions made there but it can certainly be refined with better examples and descriptions. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-argument-from-incredulity-vs-the-argument-from-gullibility/#comment-40952 That is why I try to use a capital “E” anytime I am referring to what the debate is about. It is definitely not about the small “e” which only has relevance to genetics.
https://uncommondescent.com/biology/vox-offers-three-unexplainable-mysteries-of-life-on-earth/#comment-777446 I repeat
Evolution is a Fact
Meyer wrote a couple of books on this, especially Darwin’s Dilemma. He examined something called the “fossil record” in detail.jerry_{March 16, 2023
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"They shouldn’t because Evolution is definitely a fact." You know better than this Jerry. Let's get a good definition of Evolution first. One that is scientific and acknowledges what it can't explain. Andrewasauber_{March 16, 2023
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IDers trash evolution at least 10 times or more
They shouldn’t because Evolution is definitely a fact. Just what caused it is the issue.
add in Darwin and Dawkins, that proportion probably doubles
They have no coherent ideas on what caused Evolution so their ideas should be discarded. Why bring them up?jerry_{March 16, 2023
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CD at 32, Ooooh. Fight! Fight! It's all your fault !!! You know what Chuck, and Seversky and JVL and... unguided evolution is dead. Deader than a doornail. It has been shown to not be a credible explanation. But you guys must - MUST - continue to hold some ground here. If you didn't do this, the massive swarms of ID troops will win the day and convince the world.relatd_{March 16, 2023
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Absolutely, Relatd. For every one trashing of ID that I do, IDers trash evolution at least 10 times or more. If you add in Darwin and Dawkins, that proportion probably doubles. Great odds, I'd say.........chuckdarwin_{March 16, 2023
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Relatd writes:
29, Give yourself a pat on the back. You’ve done your weekly “I trash ID” post…
I must have missed it. Where in this thread did CD say anything negative about ID?Ford Prefect_{March 16, 2023
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CD at 29, Give yourself a pat on the back. You've done your weekly "I trash ID" post...relatd_{March 16, 2023
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I just finished listening to a much-anticipated conversation between Krauss and Dawkins recorded last November on the topic of science writing for the public. Dawkin's best takeaway line: you can't be a serious scientist and not be a reductionist. Before everyone gets their panties in a wad, this statement really should be uncontroversial. Reductionism is exactly what is entailed in good experimental design, whether it be clinical trials or isolating fundamental particles. It is all about eliminating confounding variables. Reducing nature to fundamental principles. Eliminating unknowns (Krauss has a book in publication addressing this notion). In that respect, ID is abject failure........chuckdarwin_{March 16, 2023
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CD at 27, Oh, poooor Chuck. God doesn't love anyone. Poor Chuck. God could have made human beings robots who obeyed His every command. Instead, He gave them free will. The same free will some deny. An enemy appeared, and our first parents made a wrong choice. We are all stuck with that. But Jesus Christ came, died as a sacrifice for all, and showed the way back. You should read the Bible. It's all there.relatd_{March 15, 2023
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Relatd Maybe despot is too harsh a word. Although when you factor in the whole hell thing it is hard to know what to make of your loving God. It just seems to me that before he created a train wreck of sinful and defective creatures, he should have worked out his own issues first…..chuckdarwin_{March 14, 2023
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CD at 25, The Chuck and Seversky tag-team match against God. You know what Chuck? You should talk to the source of your irritation. He does care about you.relatd_{March 14, 2023
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Relatd As I recall, it was Jesus who made the claim that only through him could one achieve redemption and eternal life, correct? John 14:6? As Seversky points out, you have described Christianity to a tee. The only difference is your despot lived 2200 years ago, give or take………chuckdarwin_{March 14, 2023
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PM1 at 21, Why the fancy words? "Smoke dope!" "Have lots of sex!" "Live with your 'old lady'!" Bad - very bad - role models.relatd_{March 14, 2023
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Seversky at 20, Spoken like a true Woke-Man.relatd_{March 14, 2023
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Seversky at 19, You are so... so... Seversky. Yes, Hippies. Those very real people I dealt with in the late 1960s. You know, the ones with the mandatory length hair, the mandatory clothes, the mandatory dope smoking, the mandatory "old lady," the mandatory Hippie-speak. They were more Orthodox than Orthodox religions. "We're non-conformists!" No, you're not.relatd_{March 14, 2023
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@19
I can understand the fear factor of an existential threat to humanity posed by the Illuminati or some other global cabal or zombies or alien shape-shifters or reptilians or some such. But hippies?
If someone has a deeply entrenched emotional investment in order and authority, then the hippies will be experienced as an existential threat.PyrrhoManiac1_{March 14, 2023
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Relatd/17
There’s a difference between actual persecution and the Leftist-Marxist Class Warfare System. Here’s the formula:
Oh, I think it works for everyone.
Create a Victims Class.
Christians
Create an Enemies Class
Non-Christians
Then, declare yourself to be the ONLY possible solution for the Victims – any Victims.
Christianity. See?Seversky_{March 13, 2023
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Relatd/16
Your non-analysis is noted. Starting in the mid-1960s, the Hippies began to spread their influence.
I can understand the fear factor of an existential threat to humanity posed by the Illuminati or some other global cabal or zombies or alien shape-shifters or reptilians or some such. But hippies?Seversky_{March 13, 2023
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CD at 15, You appear to have this obsessive-compulsive bent regarding certain people. It's as if you're saying, 'If it wasn't for those people.' What's the matter? Really. What's the problem? No one except people like you can have a say in politics or public policy? It should be clear to you, and everyone reading, that the mainstream news has very little to do with reporting actual news, but with repeating what their owners want them to say.relatd_{March 13, 2023
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CD at 15, There's a difference between actual persecution and the Leftist-Marxist Class Warfare System. Here's the formula: Create a Victims Class. Create an Enemies Class. Then, declare yourself to be the ONLY possible solution for the Victims - any Victims. You - Leftists, Marxists, Woke - again become the alternative to any religious organizations. God is bad. Atheists can save you because they are the self-chosen, the self-appointed saviors. Oh brother. For the record: Christians have noticed.relatd_{March 13, 2023
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PM1 at 14, Your non-analysis is noted. Starting in the mid-1960s, the Hippies began to spread their influence. So-called underground newspapers appeared followed by underground comix. The goal was clear: to detach people from their Church, their parents and other authority figures. They - the Hippies - became the God, parent, relatives, replacements. So kids got drawn into using illegal drugs and other unhealthy life choices thanks to them. I lived through this. Imagine some trusting young kid hearing the following about illegal diugs: "It'll expand your mind." No, that was not the truth. Illegal drugs were not "cool."relatd_{March 13, 2023
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Relatd Some people seem to have an inherent need to feel persecuted, whether in fact they are or not. It’s one characteristic that evangelical Christians share with the woke crowd. Given their respective outsized influence on current American politics and public policy, it’s difficult to have any sympathy whatsoever for either of them.chuckdarwin_{March 13, 2023
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