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Protein Synthesis . . . what frequent objector AF cannot acknowledge

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Let us use a handy diagram of protein synthesis:

Protein Synthesis (HT: Wiki Media)

[U/D, Sep 2:] Where, to clarify key terms, let us note a key, classic text, Lehninger, 8th edn:

The information in DNA is encoded in its linear (one-dimensional) sequence of deoxyribonucleotide subunits . . . . A linear sequence of deoxyribonucleotides in DNA codes (through an intermediary, RNA) for the production of a protein with a corresponding linear sequence of amino acids . . . Although the final shape of the folded protein is dictated by its amino acid sequence, the folding of many proteins is aided by “molecular chaperones” . . . The precise three-dimensional structure, or native conformation, of the protein is crucial to its function.” [Principles of Biochemistry, 8th Edn, 2021, pp 194 – 5. Now authored by Nelson, Cox et al, Lehninger having passed on in 1986. Attempts to rhetorically pretend on claimed superior knowledge of Biochemistry, that D/RNA does not contain coded information expressing algorithms using string data structures, collapse. We now have to address the implications of language, goal directed stepwise processes and underlying sophisticated polymer chemistry and molecular nanotech in the heart of cellular metabolism and replication.]

Let’s add more from Lehninger and heirs, who went out of their way to make the point, Oct 29:

Further u/d Sept 2: A look at creating mRNA:

As Wikipedia admits (but, revealingly, does not duly emphasise) with a few telling words:

In molecular biology, RNA polymerase (abbreviated RNAP or RNApol), or more specifically DNA-directed/dependent RNA polymerase (DdRP), is an enzyme that synthesizes RNA from a DNA template. Using the enzyme helicase, RNAP locally opens the double-stranded DNA so that one strand of the exposed nucleotides can be used as a template for the synthesis of RNA, a process called transcription. A transcription factor and its associated transcription mediator complex must be attached to a DNA binding site called a promoter region before RNAP can initiate the DNA unwinding at that position. RNAP not only initiates RNA transcription [–> algorithmic start, notice, transcribing is generally stepwise], it also guides the nucleotides into position, facilitates attachment and elongation [–> notice direct parallel to stepwise synthesis of AA chains for proteins, cf Lehninger 8th edn p 3346: “RNA polymerase elongates an RNA strand by adding ribonucleotide units to the 3 ′- hydroxyl end, building RNA in the 5 ′ → 3 ′ direction”], has intrinsic proofreading and replacement capabilities [–> language], and termination recognition [–> algorithmic halting] capability. In eukaryotes, RNAP can build chains as long as 2.4 million nucleotides.

This is a corner of the general cell metabolism framework:

Where, Yockey observes (highlighted and annotated):

Yockey’s analysis of protein synthesis as a code-based communication process

Where, too, the genetic code is, and its context of application is:

Given, say, Crick:

Crick’s letter

. . . we need to ask, why. END

F/N1: It seems advisable to highlight the layer cake architecture of communication systems

, , , and of Computers, following Tanenbaum:

Clearly, the communication framework does not reduce to the physics of the hardware involved.

F/N2: Dawkins admits

He tries to deflect the force by appeal to “natural selection,” but protein synthesis and linked metabolic processes are causally antecedent to self replication and therefore pose a chicken before egg challenge especially for origin of life.

Comments
AF at 20, "carry information"? Where does that information come from?relatd
September 1, 2022
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Fine, let's refer to the templating process whereby DNA and RNA pair, replicate and copy and carry information as encoding. What difference does that make? [ED: Doubling down on the side tracking distractor while studiously ignoring correction. Sadly familiar techniques. KF]Alan Fox
September 1, 2022
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AF, as further correction, Crick starts with like a code then progresses to IS a code, see the box around key statements. You were corrected but insist on falsehood, that tells us further about your want of credibility, this is stuff right before us. Further, Nobel prizes for the work in question started with Crick and Watson, and went on and on including Monod. You are clearly utterly unreliable. I have already put Lehninger on record, that shows that the consensus as described in OP is indeed the consensus, confirming your basic disregard for facts. KFkairosfocus
September 1, 2022
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F/N: Let me refer to what is perhaps the classic text of Biochem, Lehninger (which I first met on Hall in my Uni in the late 70's), now in 8th Edn by a committee, pp. 194 - 5, as a point of reference:
The Linear Sequence in DNA Encodes Proteins with Three-Dimensional Structures The information in DNA is encoded in its linear (one-dimensional) sequence of deoxyribonucleotide subunits, but the expression of this information results in a three-dimensional cell. This change from one to three dimensions occurs in two phases. A linear sequence of deoxyribonucleotides in DNA codes (through an intermediary, RNA) for the production of a protein with a corresponding linear sequence of amino acids . . . The protein folds into a particular three-dimensional shape, determined by its amino acid sequence and stabilized primarily by noncovalent interactions. Although the ?nal shape of the folded protein is dictated by its amino acid sequence, the folding of many proteins is aided by “molecular chaperones” . . . The precise three-dimensional structure, or native conformation, of the protein is crucial to its function.
Clearly, AF's irresponsible rhetorical bluff attempt fails. We see, that D/RNA is a string data structure that ENCODES through linear sequence of AGCT/U, just as was long since already noted. This is essentially Crick's point in his Mar 19, 1953 letter to his son, as highlighted. Manifestly, the code in question is as tabulated in the OP, with minor variants. The code conveys information through the pattern of the sequence of bases, as was separately noted, i.e. codons, with start, elongation and stop. Obviously, the role of Ribosomes and tRNA with loading enzymes is also as described. Notice, these are not controversial matters, they are a matter of fact summary of core long since warranted points. The Cell A Molecular Approach, 8th Edn, Cooper, adds, p. 122:
Although the sequence of nucleotides in DNA appeared to specify the order of amino acids in proteins, it did not necessarily follow that DNA itself directs protein synthesis. Indeed, this appeared not to be the case, since DNA is located in the nucleus of eukaryotic cells, whereas protein synthesis takes place in the cytoplasm. Some other molecule was therefore needed to convey genetic information from DNA to the sites of protein synthesis (the ribosomes). RNA appeared a likely candidate for such an intermediate because the similarity of its structure to that of DNA suggested that RNA could be synthesized from a DNA template [--> notice where templating happens and from Lehninger where string data structure encoding and expression toward protein synthesis happens] . . . RNA differs from DNA in that it is single-stranded rather than double-stranded, its sugar component is ribose instead of deoxyribose, and it contains the pyrimidine base uracil (U) instead of thymine (T) . . . However, neither the change in sugar nor the substitution of U for T alters base pairing, so the synthesis of RNA can be readily directed by a DNA template. Moreover, since RNA is located primarily in the cytoplasm, it appeared a logical intermediate to convey information from DNA to the ribosomes. These characteristics of RNA suggested a pathway for the flow of genetic information that is known as the central dogma of molecular biology: DNA --> RNA --> Protein
And more. In short, the irresponsible attempt to bluff and hyperskeptically dismiss by AF fails. As should have been obvious. Why did he make such a resort? Because, the consequences of massive coded information in the cell, claims of molecular evolution etc notwithstanding, are devastating to evolutionary materialistic scientism and fellow travellers. As we go on to see other hyperskeptical rhetorical gambits by AF and co, let us bear this track record of ill founded bluffing in mind. KFkairosfocus
September 1, 2022
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AF, the biochem, despite your denials and dismissals, shows the framework in which the genetic code is a code.
Like code, says Crick.
It is all actually tabulated and works in a string data structure using mRNA as the means of numerically controlling the Ribosome.
Poor analogies show your ignorance of the biochemistry. This is curable, KF. There are books that are not too technical that you wouldn't benefit from reading them.
Several Nobel Prizes were won showing that. KF
I don't think so.Alan Fox
September 1, 2022
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AF, the biochem, despite your denials and dismissals, shows the framework in which the genetic code is a code. It is all actually tabulated and works in a string data structure using mRNA as the means of numerically controlling the Ribosome. Several Nobel Prizes were won showing that. KFkairosfocus
September 1, 2022
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Oops. How that got posted four times? Immaterial forces at work?Alan Fox
September 1, 2022
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Yes the biochemistry is well established. I excuse your ignorance as you have never studied the subject at an academic level.Alan Fox
September 1, 2022
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AF, no. The biochemistry is well established and several Nobel Prizes were awarded. It is now literally taught down to primary schools in some measure. Your problem is you refuse to acknowledge the information system architecture that rides on the molecular nanotech. You see string data structures with start, elongate in ways 1 to n, stop and refuse to acknowledge codes in action. Much less algorithms. You snatch at any straw you hope will keep that afloat, such as above not noticing the boxed remark by Crick. You have gone out on a rhetorical limb and it is cracking behind you. KFkairosfocus
September 1, 2022
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RNA world says no to F/N 2Alan Fox
September 1, 2022
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Well biochemistry is what I'm somewhat qualified to discuss. Anyone else?Alan Fox
September 1, 2022
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See F/N 1 and 2.kairosfocus
September 1, 2022
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But Immaterial mind (mine) creates the sequence and the thoughts flowing into this keyboard.
I suppose we could segue off into philosophy of mind, determinism, philosophical zombies and free will if you want. The OP is about the biochemistry of protein synthesis.Alan Fox
September 1, 2022
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AYP, actually in the 3rd chart Yockey was elaborating the Shannon T/comms framework architecture and applying it to protein synthesis. KFkairosfocus
September 1, 2022
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AF, the usual framework is a layer cake architecture. There is a physical layer but that does not mean there are no informational, software layers. Crick's letter to Michael used fountain pen marks on paper but the text in English does not reduce to the physics of marks on paper. KFkairosfocus
September 1, 2022
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The first diagram from KF reminds me of how messages are sent and received in a distributed but connected communication system. The sender encloses the message between a set of start and stop bits, and the receiver then scans the incoming stream for those start and stop bits and captures the message for downstream use. Analogy!ayearningforpublius
September 1, 2022
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AF, slide down to the box, you will see emphatically, this IS a code. This may be the light bulb moment caught in this letter to his son. KFkairosfocus
September 1, 2022
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AF: And another analogy is this very message I am typing. Every step involves electromechanical interactions once the keys are depressed, and the keystroke is accepted by the computer. But Immaterial mind (mine) creates the sequence and the thoughts flowing into this keyboard.ayearningforpublius
September 1, 2022
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At all stages of the process, notwithstanding that DNA-to-RNA copying is called translation, every step involves physicochemical interactions. [ED: AF full well knows the focus is protein synthesis, which uses the genetic code as a code to effect stepwise assembly of AA chains as a key stage of protein synthesis. He evades the illustrative diagrams in the OP and tries to use the template mechanism as a red herring led away to a strawman. But in fact mRNA creation is ALSO a stepwise algorithmic process as was added to OP on Sept 2. KF]Alan Fox
September 1, 2022
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In Francis Crick's letter to his son, he explains his use of 'code'. This is like a code Not 'this is a code'. It's an analogy. [ED: Kindly see p. 5 of the letter above, AF strategically omits a few lines later where Crick affirms that DNA IS a code using underscore. That sort of misdirection, regrettably, is a typical rhetorical tactic AF uses. KF]Alan Fox
September 1, 2022
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Protein Synthesis . . . what frequent objector AF cannot acknowledgekairosfocus
September 1, 2022
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