Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

A sociologist’s perceptive look at “theistic evolution”

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Recently, I have been reading Warwick U sociologist Steve Fuller’s Dissent over Descent: Intelligent Design’s Challenge to Darwinism, and was intrigued by his comments about “theistic evolution”, as understood by members of the American Scientific Affiliation and promoted by Francis Collins in The Language of God:

Theistic evolutionists … simply take what Collins calls ‘the existence of the moral law and the universal longing for God” as a feature of human nature that is entrenched enough to be self-validating. But is their dismissal anything more than an arbitrary theological intervention? If humans are indeed, as the Darwinists say, just one among many species, susceptible to the same general tendencies that can be studied in the same general terms, then findings derived from methods deemed appropriate to animals should apply to us as well. Collins’ own comprehensive but exclusive training in the hard sciences may explain why he believes in a God who communicates straightforwardly through the natural sciences but appears less willing to cooperate with the social sciences, including such biologically inflected fields as sociobiology and evolutionary psychology. Instead Collins finds intuition, anecdote, theology and sheer faith to be more reliable sources of evidence. Why God should have chosen not to rely on the usual standards of scientific rigour in these anthropocentric matters remains a mystery. (p. 104-5)

Collins is unlikely to understand the problem Fuller raises – why should anyone take Collins’s faith as anything more than an evolutionary glitch?

I am glad that a sociologist is researching the debate, because ASA-style theistic evolution makes sense only as sociology. It doesn’t make sense intellectually. As I have said elsewhere, it is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist (= how you can continue to believe in God even though the universe shows no evidence of design). But everyone realizes that the universe shows evidence of design. Design theorists must explain it, and materialists must explain it away.

The other, less benign role of theistic evolution is to confuse traditional religious people by implying that, for example, “you can believe in Darwin – and Jesus too!” Well, Darwin didn’t.

The way you believe in Jesus and Darwin too is by keeping yourself in a permanent state of confusion about the basic issues, or, Collins-style, not really understanding them. Some clergy are happy to help.

A friend alerted me to this article which nicely illustrates the muddle in progress. The article features the efforts of the Vatican to address the current Darwin cult. My friend asked me for a comment, and I replied,

Well, I hope the reason they are trying to play all sides of the table (except Dawkins’s) is that they know that “evolution” is in a state of meltdown.

If not, they will soon find out. I think the Church’s antiquity is partly the result of avoiding taking a position until necessary – and there is always the Galileo affair to remind us of what happens when we fail to adopt that course.

From the news article: “In his article, “Darwinism From Different Points of View,” he explained that Darwinian theories of natural selection are only completely unacceptable to the church when they are used to become the basis for justifying certain social policies and ethical choices.”

The main problem here would be instantly identified by ID godfather Phil Johnson: If Darwinian theories are a correct account of our origin and nature, then it is reasonable to use them to justify social policies and ethical choices.

To refuse to focus on whether the Darwinian account is true raises the possibility that we regard our own bases of action as a pleasant fiction and theirs as an unpleasant one. But that is a matter of taste, surely, and the subject should be put to a vote.

If, on the other hand, we can say Darwin was wrong about human nature (for that is the point at issue), we can reject the proposed social policies that depend on them without further consideration. More important, we can defend our own proposed policies as proceeding from a correct estimation of human worth, not merely our preference.

About that question, the most obscure backwoods six-day-creation crank is far more clued in than many a Jesuit prof, I fear.

Basically, I think Fuller is right. Theistic evolution is for people who find “intuition, anecdote, theology and sheer faith to be more reliable sources of evidence” when it comes to religion, and flee the implications of design in nature. No wonder the atheistic evolutionists use them but don’t respect them.

Also, just up at Post-Darwinist

Why the education system needs to inculcate materialism and Darwinism

Now that it’s all in ruins, they’re fighting over the rubble?

Another first for Canada? Intelligent comments about intelligent design?

So what has atheism done for science lately? Hint: a bunch of atheist books that use the word “science” a lot

Clergyman: Blame Darwin, not yourself, if you are unfaithful to your spouse!

Liberal fascism: A survival manual for non-fascists in Canada (and probably in Europe)

Comments
-----bfast: “I find there to be no theological advantage to ID over theistic evolution. I, like most IDers, no longer believe in a literal Adam and Eve. I, like many IDers believe that the line between human and pre-human is an extremely fuzzy one, that my direct ancestors were non-humans. Ie, I hold to common descent." What do you mean by “theological advantage?” I am not sure that most IDers deny the existence of a literal Adam and Eve, although it would be an interesting sociological study. -----“As such, I have had to abandon my evangelical “the Bible is the word of God inerant, accurate to the jot and tittle.” Once one has done this, theistic evolution is not far away.” Yes, but at least you are intellectually honest. Unlike the typical TE, you don’t claim to be a “devout” believer in Christianity while denying the existence of our first parents and their “original” sin. Unlike the typical TE, you don’t subordinate your faith to Darwinist ideology while claiming to have reconciled the two. Still, while I personally don’t believe in universal common descent, I don’t understand why such a world view would rule out a literal Adam and Eve. As long as it is explained in God-intervening, non-Darwinian terms, what’s the problem?StephenB
August 5, 2008
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bFast, 1 Corinthians 15:45 (ESV) 45Thus it is written,"The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. How could Jesus be the "last Adam" if there were no first? How could the Messianic prophecy in Genesis 3 have any meaning if there were no Fall? A deeper question is "When did death enter the world?". The Bible says death entered because of sin. How could there be death during common descent if there had been no sin yet? Because the prophecies in scripture are not refutable to me I must take it all as it is. These questions drive me to creationism.ellijacket
August 5, 2008
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bFast, you write, "What if God has decided that he would make himself undiscoverable by science. If he decided that, then science will not discover him. What if he decided that he would leave an implication of his presence, but nothing that would obliterate his faith model. Then concepts like ID will never become confirmed in science, but they will never be invalidated either." But my precise point is that he has apparently not done this (fine tuning, for example) nor has he said he would do it. Also, reason suggests that the creator of the universe must not be a part of it, for the same reasons as the novelist is not a character in her novel. The witness of Scripture urges us to know God in part through his works in nature. So we first have evidence from nature and reason to consider. There is also Scripture, understood as the works of people who - by their lives and witness - are assumed to have been in contact with God. They record many instances of God inviting us to know him in part through his works. The orthodox Christian tradition upheld this unity of witness - until the twentieth century when - along with so much else - it started to fall apart. A key moment for many Christians was the belief that they had to accommodate Darwin's theory of evolution, especially as applied to humans. That meant muffling other more reliable witnesses, as above. The rest is, as they say, history. As for Adam and Eve, given that so few individual humans are our direct universal ancestors (if the conventional theory of our origins is correct), I do not know of a compelling reason to doubt their actual existence, but a variety of views on the matter may be held by orthodox Christians, so far as I know. The reason I think that orthodox Christians could not be Darwinists is that Darwin held that virtues were simply the qualties that evolved to help us survive. But Christians (and all monotheists, I should think) think that they are the qualities by which our minds best reflect or enact the will of the divine mind. In other words, either virtues are merely survival aids or else they are independently* given, as part of a our unique relationship with God. Attempting to make some compromise between the two views leads to the muddle that is current Anglo-American "theistic evolution". *independently given - some might argue that God could so contrive matters that virtue "pays" and that it could thus be accounted for by Darwinian natural selection while still being given to us by God. But I don't think the evidence (at least from the history of my own religion) offers any strong signal that virtue "pays" in a this-worldly sense. The evidence is that virtue pays in terms of a closer relationship with God, but that closer relationship normally means more trouble with local ungodly authorities, not less.O'Leary
August 5, 2008
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bFast You made this comment #4: "I, like most IDers, no longer believe in a literal Adam and Eve" One of the shortcomings of this belief (and TE) if you still believe in a God, why would God make a covenant with anyone who didn't exist - past, present and future? He made a covenant with Eve, then Noah, then…Kay
August 5, 2008
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"The biggest puzzle I have reguarding TE is why most theistic evolutionists do not recognize themselves as a variant of intelligent design." In my opinion? A mix of miscommunication (buying into the idea that ID = stealth YEC), legitimate theological/philosophical concerns (the TEs I see believe that there is evidence, even abundant evidence, for design in nature - but they don't believe this is subject to scientific proof. ID popularly does not seem committed to mere apparent, even evident design, but out and out 'scientific proof of design'), and frankly, a lot of petty hostility coming from both camps.nullasalus
August 5, 2008
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I find there to be no theological advantage to ID over theistic evolution. I, like most IDers, no longer believe in a literal Adam and Eve. I, like many IDers believe that the line between human and pre-human is an extremely fuzzy one, that my direct ancestors were non-humans. Ie, I hold to common descent. As such, I have had to abandon my evangelical "the Bible is the word of God inerant, accurate to the jot and tittle." Once one has done this, theistic evolution is not far away. What if God has decided that he would make himself undiscoverable by science. If he decided that, then science will not discover him. What if he decided that he would leave an implication of his presence, but nothing that would obliterate his faith model. Then concepts like ID will never become confirmed in science, but they will never be invalidated either. The biggest puzzle I have reguarding TE is why most theistic evolutionists do not recognize themselves as a variant of intelligent design. The one bright exception is Michael Denton. His last book, Nature's Destiny, presents a TE model. Yet Denton sees himself as a descenter. If God set up a set of laws that would, of necessity, ultimately develop into intelligent beings, we are still designed. It only takes one design event to invoke design. The TEs that I know, like Miller, respect the strong anthropic principle. (Denton extends the principle well into the field of biology.) The strong anthropic principle, however, is a design argument -- a strong one. I hold to an agency model, that there is evidence of multiple design events. Yet I do not do so for any theological reason. I would actually find the concept that God built us on law alone, and that God intentionally left himself masked to be more spiritually rewarding than believing that there are multiple acts of agency in the record, that God tweaked along the way. I hold to an agency model because of the evidence alone, not because of a religious opposition to TE.bFast
August 4, 2008
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pubdef, that doesn't show that any other "estimation of human worth" is correct. It shows that the estimator believes that it is correct. Contrast that, if you will, with rejecting the outcome in social policy of "certain Darwinian theories" without rejecting the theories themselves. Because a Darwinian account of the nature of humanity and the origin of religion, for example, is completely incompatible with that of the Catholic Church, there should be no hesitancy on the point. In fairness, I think that some Catholic clerics are merely confused at present. It is a highly confusing picture, after all, and the theistic evolutionists have done much to becloud it.O'Leary
August 4, 2008
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If you want to have some real fun, ask a TE is he/she believes in the existence of a literal Adam and Eve.StephenB
August 4, 2008
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If, on the other hand, we can say Darwin was wrong about human nature (for that is the point at issue), we can reject the proposed social policies that depend on them without further consideration. More important, we can defend our own proposed policies as proceeding from a correct estimation of human worth, not merely our preference.
Wait a minute -- even if Darwin was "wrong about human nature," how does that show that any other "estimation of human worth" is correct?pubdef
August 4, 2008
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