BREAKING: President Trump, Mrs Trump & Ms Hicks are Positive for CV-19

_{kairosfocus
October 2, 2020

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Tweets:

Tonight, @ FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this TOGETHER!
— Donald J. Trump (@ realDonaldTrump) October 2, 2020

Hope Hicks, who has been working so hard without even taking a small break, has just tested positive for Covid 19. Terrible! The First Lady and I are waiting for our test results. In the meantime, we will begin our quarantine process!
— Donald J. Trump (@ realDonaldTrump) October 2, 2020

When you thought an extraordinarily chaotic year could not pull out another twist. Well, here it is. END

PS: As broad context

PPS: For reference on HCQ

Also:

PPPS: A sampler from a former CEO, Twitter (cf discussion at Forbes [also here]) commented on by Michelle Malkin, a few days ago:

See, now, that this is NOT a normal silly season cycle?

PPPPS: A summary on the U/L trajectory of CV19:

Comments

MMT, while I will not be drawn into a crocodile death roll on details, I will first note that in my observation, due to the sort of two-minute hate hostility group-think pattern, it is fair comment that many things Mr Trump has said have been snatched out of context, twisted into accusations and worse. Three cases that spring to mind include the Charlottesville "fine people" comment (he explicitly excluded the neo nazis etc), the mexican criminality (he spoke specifically to well, criminals . . . Mexico is of course convulsed in in effect a civil war with narco terrorism), and the disinfectant (he spoke of UV light therapy not abuse of Sodium hypochlorite 5.25% or 8+% solution). That said, it is fairly obvious from your exaggerated dismissal that you have similarly failed to notice what I have in fact been significantly critical of Mr Trump, who is not a particularly nice figure. What do you think "NY Contractor in Chief" implies? Four years ago, I had to withdraw a double dis-endorsement as that was in an imprudent grey area. I have regarded him as needlessly abrasive and often boorish. I have called him a most unlikely champion of our civilisation, noting that he (as was so of a far more likeable personality who was harshly targetted, Reagan) is a displaced Democrat. A comparison is Churchill, someone the UK people never awarded an election victory until 1950 or thereabouts. That said, the root challenge is not a personality or likeability in general, the hinterland people of the US have rejected their coastal elites and have put in place an outsider champion because, for cause, they see that progressivist elite as on the wrong track and needing to be taught a harsh corrective lesson. That lesson is not finished and the sort of routine projection of slanderous groupthink we are seeing is part of how we know that. Mr Trump is likely to be re-elected and to win back the Representatives chamber, retaining the Senate. If he doesn't, esp in an atmosphere of post election chaos and lawfare, multiplied by the already declared radical agendas and clear policy intent on the table, the situation will rapidly get even worse. Court packing to protect holocaust of the unborn and to remove right and means of self defence in the face of the mob, cover up of clear deep state abuses and more will not be taken quietly by the people of the hinterland. The attempt to destabilise constitutional safeguards such as the Electoral College and to bring in new states on a partisan agenda will be taken very badly indeed, were the radicals to come to power through the upcoming election. And mischaracterising the hinterland as nazis etc will not sit well. I have noted, 4th Gen civil war is already in progress and will peak in coming months. Needless, bad geostrategic consequences will follow. The Cultural Marxism influenced, evolutionary materialistic scientism-dominated, morally bankrupt coastal progressivist elites have much to answer for, starting with the courts, the academic and educational elites and the major media houses and voices, as well as entrenched deep state apparatchiks. The red guards in the streets are cannon fodder, manipulated by an ecosystem of radical Alinsky community organiser front groups, backed by a network of powerful financiers and strategists in the shadows. I have repeatedly, for cause, pointed to the McFaul pattern for colour revolutions through 4GW operations. KFkairosfocus_{October 6, 2020
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RHolt
If you can’t put a number to the IC50 or EC50 for zinc and viral replication why should I, or anyone, believe your bald assertions?
I will take that as a rhetorical question. :)Mac McTavish_{October 5, 2020
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ET @ 148 "We have already played this game with respect to pH levels and the effect it has on ACE2 receptors. You lost." So while I post references supporting the position that HCQ has no effect on ACE2 receptor and covid infection all we get from you is all bluster and no data. Not surprising, though. ET @ 148 "More zinc is better" Is it? How much more is 'better' or even 'best'? If you can't put a number to the IC50 or EC50 for zinc and viral replication why should I, or anyone, believe your bald assertions?RHolt_{October 5, 2020
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KF @15 "enough was given to trace a reasonable timeline and infer any reasonable need to know." Not even close. For example the info on his last negative test is crucial for tracking and tracing to make all those with potential exposure to the virus, via Trump, aware of their possibly being infected. Withholding this information places all of them, their families, and social contacts at risk of continued spread of the virus. It is irresponsible to withhold such information. Then there is the question that has now arisen is that Trump and his entourage arrived at the debate too late to be tested. Instead all present were required to 'trust' Trump and his entourage that they were negative. Give how sick he became between Thursday and Friday it is quite plausible that he was positive at the Tuesday debate. Totally irresponsible for the leader of the free world to pull such stunts. Trump also wishes to be reelected. The people of this country deserve to know if their leader is healthy enough to deal with the rigors of the office. It is quite possible Trump could become a covid long-hauler which has immediate ramifications on his fitness for the office. The purposeful withholding of information and misleading information is completely unacceptable given what we know of how covid is spread and its potential impact on the human body. It is an indefensible position and the polling demonstrates that a majority of the populous feel this way as well.RHolt_{October 5, 2020
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LoL! @ Mac and cheese- My comments here are dependent on the the lies, misconceptions and misrepresentations that I am responding to. Given your history of commenting here you will forgive me if I question your honesty and integrity.ET_{October 5, 2020
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ET
Just because you don’t like what he has to say doesn’t make it “agit prop, polarizing and outright crude behavior”
Given your history of commenting here you will forgive me if I question your ability to know what constitutes crude behavior.Mac McTavish_{October 5, 2020
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I love Mac's bald accusations of the President. Just because you don't like what he has to say doesn't make it "agit prop, polarizing and outright crude behavior". Putting words in his mouth just exposes your desperation.ET_{October 5, 2020
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RHolt- We have already played this game with respect to pH levels and the effect it has on ACE2 receptors. You lost. More zinc is better- that is more zinc than the existing zinc transport system affords. That is what an ionophore allows.ET_{October 5, 2020
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KF
I have seen the sort of over-wrought hysterical language and angry demonising projection before, it is a feature of an ideological war.
Mexicans are murderers and rapists. Muslims are terrorists. Refugees will destroy your way of life. Affordable housing will destroy the suburbs. And so on. Trump is an expert at over-wrought hysterical language and angry demonising projection. A president is supposed to represent everyone’s interests, even those who didn’t vote for him. Especially those who didn’t vote for him.Mac McTavish_{October 5, 2020
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KF
This sort of language is beyond the pale. This is not a normal election, we are looking at outright agit prop, some of it outright crude; an appeal to people induced into polarised hysteria.
I agree that the Mussolini comment was uncalled for, but I find it extremely hypocritical that you repeatedly criticize the media’s behavior on their coverage of Trump, but never criticize Trump on his agit prop, polarizing and outright crude behavior. You are guilty of the same thing you are accusing the media of.Mac McTavish_{October 5, 2020
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RH, enough was given to trace a reasonable timeline and infer any reasonable need to know. There is no right to detailed medical records. I find it astonishing that I am forced to say, the sort of speech I have noted is way too far, on a figure I do not particularly find attractive. I have seen the sort of over-wrought hysterical language and angry demonising projection before, it is a feature of an ideological war. KFkairosfocus_{October 5, 2020
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F/N: MSNBC speaks of Mr Trump saluting Marine One, as "a Mussolini moment." Read the projection back to the source. This sort of language is beyond the pale. This is not a normal election, we are looking at outright agit prop, some of it outright crude; an appeal to people induced into polarised hysteria. KFkairosfocus_{October 5, 2020
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KF @ 141. "The best I can suggest is to use the mirror principle that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and projects to others." There is no question that the WH has surpassed information on the presidents health and covid infection. Not providing the date of his last negative test and first positive test is telling. initially refusing to answer if he had even been administered any oxygen at any time is also telling. Not providing info on the results of his lung scans is also a very large red flag. Administration of dexamethasone is consistent with his having severe covid as well as his blood-oxygen sats going below 94% are characteristic of severe covid. It will come out eventually that Trump has covid pneumonia and this is the reason for his steroid treatment and also why they won't divulge the scan results. You know if the scans were clear he would be crowing from the rooftops about how he came through the infection unscathed. The display of bravado he is projecting is certainly, in part (likely large), characteristics of the effects of steroids. Looking at him tonight when he took his mask off (irresponsible behavior and putting others at risk aside) you could see his breathing is labored. Once it all comes out it will erode his credibility further....not that he has such left in any case. Only 26% of those polled trust him for info on covid and the recent Stanford article highlights him being a major source of misinformation in the 'infodemic' realm.RHolt_{October 5, 2020
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KF @ 140 What is the IC50 or EC50 for zinc and viral replication inhibition? I didn't find medcram all that impressive or informative when I looked at it prior to my taking a break from civilization the last weeks. If there is something stunning or revolutionary that you think should be viewed on medcram post the episode # and why you think it pertinent. When I get the time I'll give it a look if it sounds interesting.RHolt_{October 5, 2020
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UPDATE: US President Trump speaks on arrival back at the White House: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1313267615083761665 He suggests medicines are to be approved shortly and vaccines. I of course have doubts on vaccines for corona viruses. KF PS: I found some remarks by Mr Stelter of CNN:
It's not a real show of strength but it's a performative show of strength, this is what strong men do in autocratic regimes. Thankfully we’re in a democracy, but this is what you see from strong men who want to appear to be leading, it's Dear Leader sort of approach. That’s what we are seeing on the television screens . . . Meanwhile, there are big questions about the coverup. Why won’t they tell about his testing history, when he was tested. We moved from possibly being a coverup to actually being a coverup. Whether the President's at Walter Reed or back at the White House, reporters will keep demanding answers to those questions.
The best I can suggest is to use the mirror principle that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and projects to others. The slanderous suggestions of dictatorship, corruption etc with little or no basis tell us volumes on what lurks in the hearts behind such words. Clearly, this is not a normal election and something has gone very dark among the progressivists. Also, has he forgotten that medical records and history are not open information, nor should a precedent be set on that.kairosfocus_{October 5, 2020
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RH, scroll up to OP. Zn ionophore is not a biochem pathway but ion transport, and weak base frustrates paths. You will find MedCram interesting. KFkairosfocus_{October 5, 2020
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ET@136 "HCQ affects the pH levels." lysosomal pH, yes. And as your reference that you previously posted it takes a long time to do that and have any effect on biochemical processes. ET@136 "That, in turn, has an effect on the ACE2 receptors" No, it doesn't. Feel free to elucidate the biochemical pathway that you believe causes this change. As much detail as possible, i.e. enzymes involved, supporting data demonstrating this mechanism, and of course some references that this pathway is present in human lung and airway cells. ET @ 136. "This allows for more zinc to be absorbed by cells." Eucaryotic cells have lots of zinc in them. From all appearances this virus replicates just fine. KF @ 138 I've been at sea and out of contact with the real world until a few days ago. You'll have to explain to me what Dr. "Been mechanisms' are. Have you accepted the research results that demonstrate the proposed biochemical pathway that HCQ and CQ are hypothesized to work by don't exist in human lung cells?RHolt_{October 5, 2020
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I find it amusing how our objectors studiously refuse to face the Dr "Been" mechanisms. That tells me something. KFkairosfocus_{October 5, 2020
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RH7:
Trump did not take HCQ in June, July, August, and September.
By then alternative treatments were availableET_{October 5, 2020
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RHolt:
Yes, it tells us that he had no contact with the sars-cov-2 virus.
It might tell you that. He was taking it with zinc. And the science supports the efficacy of using both. HCQ affects the pH levels. That, in turn, has an effect on the ACE2 receptors. It is also an ionophore. This allows for more zinc to be absorbed by cells. Zinc is known to prevent the virus from replicating. And it is very telling that no one has been able to collect the $200,000 from Dr. Zelenko.ET_{October 5, 2020
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ET@131" it is very telling that he did not contract the virus back then." Yes, it tells us that he had no contact with the sars-cov-2 virus. HCQ an CQ fail to prevent infection with covid in vitro (using human lung cell lines and modified VERO cell lines). Why would you think it has any efficacy in vivo given that this mechanistic study demonstrates the once-thought-plausable mechanism of action for HCQ and CQ is unavailable in human lung and airway cells? Here is the take away line from the study:
These results indicate that chloroquine targets a pathway for viral activation that is not active in lung cells and is unlikely to protect against the spread of SARS-CoV-2 in and between patients.
Chloroquine does not inhibit infection of human lung cells with SARS-CoV-2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2575-3RHolt_{October 5, 2020
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KF, Rod Dreher has some thoughts on what history should teach us... I have mentioned in this space — and I write about inLive Not By Lies— how the Imperial Russian government’s botched handling of the 1891-92 famine was a key turning point in the Russian Revolution of 1917. Why? Because it badly shook the confidence of the Russian people in their government’s competence. Marxist radicals never really got much traction with the broader Russian public until the famine debacle made people wonder if the system really could be counted on to keep them safe. People began to wonder if maybe the radicals were onto something in their critique of the regime. The Tsarist establishment lost a great amount of credibility with the public, and never, of course, got it back. Trump’s failures on Covid, epitomized by his own failure to manage his exposure with regard to White House staffers and supporters, come at a time of historic loss of public faith in institutions. As Brooks writes in his detailed essay, we are living in an era of great insecurity because of this loss of trust — and Millennials and Generation Z are the most dramatically affected by it. Again, I’m going to explore this in a separate post, but the things Brooks talks about regarding the fear, anxiety, and eagerness for protection running rampant among Millennials and Gen Z are exactly the things that Hannah Arendt observed as present in pre-totalitarian Russia and Germany. What Trump has done with his own Covid diagnosis is a monumental act of self-sabotage. What he is helping to sabotage is more than his own administration and re-election campaign, I fear. https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/rhampton7_{October 5, 2020
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ET Trump did not take HCQ in June, July, August, and Septemberrhampton7_{October 5, 2020
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Gilles Roche is not as well known as Didier Raoult. Yet he has a journey very similar to the professor who has hit the headlines since the start of the coronavirus pandemic. Like the Marseille researcher, he is an infectious disease specialist. He even knows Didier Raoult very well for having worked with him during their internship "in Claude-Bernard, in Paris, the Mecca of infectious diseases, now destroyed". If they are also of the same generation - "He is 68 years old, I am 70", specifies Gilles Roche in the columns of Midi Libre - the comparison stops there. The Montpellier native does not share the Marseillais’s ideas at all and has decided to break his silence by addressing his colleague in a devastating open letter. Now retired, Gilles Roche explained why he could no longer be silent in an interview for Midi Libre. He, who is familiar with Didier Raoult in his letter, wants to bring the Marseillais down from his pedestal: “The familiarity is important. Raoult is not God the Father. We have to bring it back to what it is: we are both infectious diseases ". From the time they knew each other, he retains the image of a "very capable" boy. What has changed according to him: "But like Doctor Christian Perronne, the only one to support him, he has completely broken off." Gilles Roche has decided to sound the alarm bells because of the multiple statements made by his colleague which, since January, have "turned out to be false". His letter therefore begins with an advice to the Marseillais: “Didier Raoult, please stop !!! The researcher who "worked for twenty-five years with the pharmaceutical industry" continues by asking "how far will the delirium go? ", While he accuses his colleague of a" fucked up methodology "while accusing him of using" totally inadequate communication channels ". Gilles Roche evokes here the “viral videos on social networks” of Didier Raoult, which would have “shamelessly encouraged the lowest conspiracy and populist tendencies, carried by the enthusiasm of the delirious crowds who [him] comforted in [his] idea of ??being some kind of divinity and made [him] blind to reality. "Before concluding his letter by recalling his" background similar to that of Didier Raoult, Gilles Roche assassinates him one last time: "So, out of pity, stop saying all your stupidities which are so damaging to society, to patients, to medicine and science! Let the professionals do their job and stop playing smart ”. https://www.voici.fr/news-people/actu-people/didier-raoult-attaque-par-un-ancien-camarade-de-classe-lui-aussi-infectiologue-689236rhampton7_{October 5, 2020
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President Trump took hydroxychloroquine back in May. And it is very telling that he did not contract the virus back then. :razz:ET_{October 5, 2020
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KF, Eh? I thought I was the one making the point. Which is that if your historical analysis leads you to unsound prognostications, perhaps your analysis is faulty. If I turn out to be wrong, then the same applies to me.daveS_{October 5, 2020
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DS, you are clearly missing the point. Again, do you see the McFaul pattern? Can you confirm provenance and date? Do you see why I annotated with a dirty form? Now, have there been cases that compare in say Egypt? What would that suggest? How could it be adapted to say Mao's circumstances 1966? Now, compare to developments with the US. KF PS: Do you understand why, if the US votes power to radicals of the order we are seeing, things are much worse than I think?kairosfocus_{October 5, 2020
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since no randomized controlled trials to date have shown any significant benefit to COVID-19 patients with the drug.
None have been done so how could any show anything.jerry_{October 5, 2020
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No single strategy or technology is going to rescue society from the pandemic: not masks, not better testing, not a drug, not vaccines. For any of these, it’s easy to get caught up in optimism and hope. But the reality is that fighting the coronavirus requires doing many things correctly. That hasn’t stopped people — President Trump among them —— from grasping for single, easy solutions. In March, Trump tweeted that hydroxychloroquine, given with the antibiotic azithromycin, could be “one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine.” They were not. He said the virus would miraculously disappear with warmer weather. Outbreaks have continued. And lately, he’s been betting on a vaccine, saying it could even come before “a very special date,” meaning Election Day. “The entire pandemic has been about magic bullets,” says Ashish K. Jha, dean of the Brown School of Public Health. What’s required now to return to a more normal life is the same thing that has been required all along: a series of incremental strategies (pushing testing, requiring masks, developing vaccines and treatments), and clear priorities (do you want to open schools or bars?) driven by an informed public debate about what matters to society. As H.L. Mencken famously said, for every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. What’s required here isn’t Rambo-style heroics. It’s clear strategy, and the kind of courage and patience under fire that soldiers in the American Revolution needed when they were told, “Don’t fire until you see the whites of their eyes.” https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/05/with-covid19-there-are-no-magic-bullets/rhampton7_{October 5, 2020
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From Reason.com Hydroxychloroquine Is Conspicuously Absent from Trump's COVID-19 Treatment Regimen. And that's good. You might wonder why the president's doctors aren't treating him with hydroxychloroquine, the compound Trump has been touting as a COVID-19 treatment for months? The answer: lack of evidence from clinical trials that it works. A July report of a randomized trial in which patients with early diagnoses of COVID-19 were treated with hydroxychloroquine found that the compound "did not substantially reduce symptom severity in outpatients with early, mild COVID-19." An August study reporting the results of a multicenter randomized trial using hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 patients concluded that adding the drug "to standard care did not add significant benefit, did not decrease the need for ventilation, and did not reduce mortality rates in COVID-19 patients." An August 26 systematic meta-analysis of the effect of hydroxychloroquine administered with and without the anti-bacterial azithromycin reported that "hydroxychloroquine alone was not associated with reduced mortality in hospitalized COVID-19 patients but the combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin significantly increased mortality." It is not surprising that the president's medical team have declined to prescribe hydroxychloroquine as a treatment, since no randomized controlled trials to date have shown any significant benefit to COVID-19 patients with the drug. https://reason.com/2020/10/05/hydroxychloroquine-is-conspicuously-absent-from-trumps-covid-19-treatment-regimen/rhampton7_{October 5, 2020
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