Os Guinness: The Magna Carta of Humanity — our civilisation’s roots lie in Jerusalem/Mt Sinai too (not just Athens and Rome)

_{kairosfocus

February 3, 2023

Academic Freedom, Agitprop, Defending our Civilization}

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After telling of his experiences in China where he was born in the 1940’s, Guinness speaks of a moment when a civilisation loses touch with its roots. He suggests, there then are three alternatives: renewal, replacement or decline.

As the modern jacobins rise up again, our civilisation faces that choice, at kairos; with lawful, ordered freedom in the stakes as 1776 [not, 1619 — a toxic slander driven distraction] clashes with 1789, so, too, frankly, 1917 – 49. And we need to recall the challenge to not throw out the baby with the bath water. END

PS, ponder

Comments

Sev, has it registered that oppression is generally an expression of lawless oligarchy, that such comes in all sorts of guises including progress and science -- ponder dirty uni politics if you doubt -- and that much of the heart softening and reform that opened up lawful state, constitutional democracy was religiously rooted or strongly influenced? KFkairosfocus_{February 7, 2023
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The Woke Mob is the current God replacement. They establish the rules. They are the official accusers. And they apparently operate from some place of perfection where they, the self-chosen, can look out and judge others. As the "modern" guides of men, they demand attention. Not your church or your parents or your relatives - they have replaced them as well. And they have chosen certain groups of people over others as worthy of their protection. ONLY they can save them. No one else. The rest of us are labeled. We are automatically guilty. Of whatever the Woke say we are. But if we bow before them and follow their dictates, we might, maybe, fall into the OK category. Or we can ignore them entirely, since a lot of us have not hurt anyone in their groups of protected peoples. But I suspect that will still not stop them from accusing Every White, Heterosexual Male of something. (How those Woke who are white, heterosexual males deal with their whiteness is beyond the scope of this commentary.)relatd_{February 7, 2023
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Sev: "It promised a future led by science that I naively thought would be free of the oppression of religious and racial prejudice." Moreover Sev, besides Darwinism not being a hard science, Darwinism literally has pseudo-scientific racism built into its foundation.
Darwin reader: (Charles Darwin’s racism, quote from Darwin’s Descent of Man:) - February 14, 2009 Excerpt: “At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.” https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/darwin-reader-darwins-racism/ What Your Biology Teacher Didn’t Tell You About Charles Darwin - Phil Moore / April 19, 2017 Excerpt: ,,, the British thinker who justified genocide.,,, The full title of his seminal 1859 book was On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life. He followed up more explicitly in The Descent of Man, where he spelled out his racial theory: "The Western nations of Europe . . . now so immeasurably surpass their former savage progenitors [that they] stand at the summit of civilization. . . . The civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races through the world." - C. Darwin,,, Christian reformers had spent decades in the early 19th century teaching Britain to view non-European races as their equals before God. In a matter of years, Darwin swept not only God off the table, but also the value of people of every race with him. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-your-biology-teacher-didnt-tell-you-about-charles-darwin “History will mark us for having the vision and the gift and the will to advance the human race to greater purity in a space of time so short that Charles Darwin would be astonished.” – Reinhard Heydrich – (Nazi) Wannsee conference – 1942 https://www.chron.com/entertainment/article/Hodges-True-life-horror-story-changed-the-world-2029539.php
To see just how deeply imbedded systemic racism is built into Darwin’s theory you have to go no further than a natural history museum. Systemic racism is literally built right into the imaginary ‘artistic reconstructions’ of the “march of man” fossils that Darwinists offer to the general public in museums as supposed proof for human evolution.
Human Evolution as a “Path to Whiteness” – November 24, 2021 Excerpt: Do Your Own Google Search I had never thought of this before. In contemporary museum displays and other evolutionary depictions, just as in Darwin’s Descent of Man and in the notorious Civic Biology textbook that was at issue in the 1925 Scopes Trial, human origins are portrayed as an upward progress from dark to white. Neanderthals, however otherwise “primitive” (which is questionable in itself), are shown as light-skinned. And maybe they were, but modern man — Homo sapiens — is almost invariably white and European, not African or Asian. Check out some examples from around the Internet, here, here, here, here, and here. (links on site) Do a Google image search for the phrase “human evolution” and you’ll see many others. Just a coincidence? Or is Darwin’s racist legacy still with us today? You tell me. For a deeper exploration of that legacy, see John West’s documentary Human Zoos. https://evolutionnews.org/2021/11/human-evolution-as-a-path-to-whiteness/
Moreover, there is far less science behind these 'artistic reconstructions' that purport to show man evolving man evolving from some ape-like creature than most people realize,
Ancestor bias - Museum depictions of ‘human ancestors’ challenged—by evolutionists by Philip Robinson - Nov. 2022 Excerpt: A team of researchers recently looked at artistic renderings of humans’ alleged ape-like ancestors. They openly discussed a wide range of issues of concern in how these are depicted.1 The team noted that there have been very few ‘hominin’ fossils ever found. In fact, they highlighted that the total number of finds is less than the number of anthropologists active today. So, comparing reconstructions of the small number of individual hominin finds is relatively easy. Lead researcher Ryan Campbell wrote, “I expected to find consistency in those reconstructions displayed in natural history museums, but the differences, even there, were so severe that I almost thought all previous practitioners had never encountered a single hominid reconstruction before commencing their own.”2 ,,, In addressing their original question about museums they suggested that while their artistic renditions are technically impressive, “There are potential educational harms in presenting unscientific reconstructions of hominins under the shroud of presumed validity.” They suggested that the reasons for museums doing so “can most likely be attributed to factors outside the control of science”.3 In wanting to appear to present a coherent and convincing story of evolution, a great deal of ‘scientific/artistic licence’ is inappropriately used in ‘hominin’ reconstructions.,,, In fact, australopithecines in many respects “clearly differ more from both humans and African apes, than do these two living groups from each other. The australopithecines are unique.”4 Also, they did not, as many believe, walk upright in the human manner.5 https://creation.com/museum-apemen-challenged-by-evolutionists
In May of 2020, via an article from the American Museum of Natural History, (which is certainly no creationist organization), it was stated, ““Humans are storytellers: Theories of human evolution often resemble “anthropogenic narratives” that borrow the structure of a hero’s journey,, but unless grounded in testable hypotheses, they are no more than “just-so stories”,,,, “When you look at the narrative for hominin origins, it’s just a big mess — there’s no consensus whatsoever.”
Scientists Conclude: Human Origins Research Is a Big Mess – Günter Bechly – May 10, 2021 Excerpt: Finally, the article concludes with this gem: “Humans are storytellers: Theories of human evolution often resemble “anthropogenic narratives” that borrow the structure of a hero’s journey to explain essential aspects such as the origins of erect posture, the freeing of the hands, or brain enlargement (166). Intriguingly, such narratives have not drastically changed since Darwin (166). We must be aware of confirmation biases and ad hoc interpretations by researchers aiming to confer their new fossil the starring role within a preexisting narrative. Evolutionary scenarios are appealing because they provide plausible explanations based on current knowledge, but unless grounded in testable hypotheses, they are no more than “just-so stories” (167).” Hardly any ID proponent could have said it better. Fancy storytelling in the style of Kiplingesque “just-so stories” is indeed a hallmark of the soft science of modern evolutionary biology in general, and paleoanthropology in particular.,,, In this press release the senior author of the new study, Sergio Almécija, a senior research scientist at the American Museum of Natural History, is also quoted as offering this remarkable admission: “When you look at the narrative for hominin origins, it’s just a big mess — there’s no consensus whatsoever.” https://evolutionnews.org/2021/05/scientists-conclude-human-origins-research-is-a-big-mess/
Thus Seversky, in his quest to embrace science and anti-racism, has embraced neither. He has instead embraced a pseudo-scientific atheistic religion, i.e. Darwinism, which literally has blatant racism built into its core. Verse:
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
bornagain77_{February 7, 2023
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the problem which has nothing to do with policy rather the problem is ideology.
it always has been. Guinness lays it out in detail but the problem is there is too much detail and the solution is Old Testament politics. Not going to fly.jerry_{February 7, 2023
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Sev: “It promised a future led by science",, 100th Reminder for you Sev., Darwinism is NOT a hard science!
Top Ten Questions and Objections to ‘Introduction to Evolutionary Informatics’ – Robert J. Marks II – June 12, 2017 Excerpt: “There exists no model successfully describing undirected Darwinian evolution. Hard sciences are built on foundations of mathematics or definitive simulations. Examples include electromagnetics, Newtonian mechanics, geophysics, relativity, thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, optics, and many areas in biology. Those hoping to establish Darwinian evolution as a hard science with a model have either failed or inadvertently cheated. These models contain guidance mechanisms to land the airplane squarely on the target runway despite stochastic wind gusts. Not only can the guiding assistance be specifically identified in each proposed evolution model, its contribution to the success can be measured, in bits, as active information.,,,”,,, “there exists no model successfully describing undirected Darwinian evolution. According to our current understanding, there never will be.,,,” https://evolutionnews.org/2017/06/top-ten-questions-and-objections-to-introduction-to-evolutionary-informatics/ Robert Jackson Marks II is an American electrical engineer. His contributions include the Zhao-Atlas-Marks (ZAM) time-frequency distribution in the field of signal processing,[1] the Cheung–Marks theorem[2] in Shannon sampling theory and the Papoulis-Marks-Cheung (PMC) approach in multidimensional sampling.[3] He was instrumental in the defining of the field of computational intelligence and co-edited the first book using computational intelligence in the title.[4][5] – per wikipedia
bornagain77_{February 7, 2023
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Seversky at 41, "It promised a future led by science that I naively thought would be free of the oppression of religious and racial prejudice." And what else did science do? From the late 1950s till the early 1990s, I along with the other citizens of the United States lived under constant threat of Soviet ICBMs. You know what? I had a great time in the late 1950s and early 1960s. I had no illusion that I would survive a nuclear attack but life was great. Not perfect - great. You, on the other hand, view every non-colored/black person as a racist, don't you? I convinced my mom to buy me every magazine or book on astronauts and spaceships as I could get. The people that landed men on the Moon were Wernher von Braun and his team of German specialists who were brought here after the war. You, on the other hand, see only what you want to see. I remember going to the Farmers' Market and seeing normal black families. I had no problems with black/colored people. My first girlfriend in college was Native American. So get off your high horse.relatd_{February 7, 2023
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if some white people experienced the early 1960’s as some sort of “golden age” it was because the experiences of many black people were largely whitewashed out of the picture.
yet the US became least racist major country in the history of the world. The Tulsa massacre happened over 100 years ago. Why aren’t there other examples. Reference my previous comment, the US under Trump did well with minorities in term of economic opportunity. Why didn’t Seversky mention this? Will Seversky have a discussion about the truth of anything? Don’t bet on it. It hasn’t happened in the 16 years he has been commenting here.jerry_{February 7, 2023
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Jerry 39 “too many people look to material progress as the solution. Was that what Trump was promising and delivering?” If I am reading you correctly you have got to the root of the problem which has nothing to do with policy rather the problem is ideology. Vividvividbleau_{February 7, 2023
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Relatd/40
I lived through the Great America period. The economy was strong, the military was strong, and God and religion was strong. Most of the people had what they needed. The three pillars of God, family and country were firmly established.
In the 1960's I was fascinated by the Apollo Moon missions. I collected books, wall charts, magazines and articles and followed all the TV coverage. It promised a future led by science that I naively thought would be free of the oppression of religious and racial prejudice. Imagine my shock and surprise when I saw the movie Hidden Figures. Nowhere - nowhere - in all the material I collected was there any reference to the black women who had performed all the manual calculations that made the landings possible. Much later, we learned of the Tulsa Race Massacre that had been carefully expunged from the history of that city that was not taught to local students. We also leaned that it was far from the only atrocity committed against black individuals and communities over the preceding decades. If some white people experienced the early 1960's as some sort of "golden age" it was because the experiences of many black people were largely whitewashed out of the picture.Seversky_{February 7, 2023
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I lived through the Great America period. The economy was strong, the military was strong, and God and religion was strong. Most of the people had what they needed. The three pillars of God, family and country were firmly established. "Modern individualism, which is divorced from the moral foundations of Christianity and surrounded by a hedonistic society, has produced a way of life that is neither beneficial to individuals nor productive to society at large. Individualism used to be expressed positively within the context of the family, the community, the church, and the government. Personal rights were subjected to the overall good of society. But individualism today no longer observes such boundaries. The cry is, 'I want what I want when I want it!' Such selfish individualism weakens the very underpinnings of a nation built on strong moral foundations. (Holiness and the Spirit of the Age, [page] 78)" by Floyd McClung as quoted in Storm Warning by Billy Graham.relatd_{February 7, 2023
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Interesting comment by Guinness
To make America great again can only be done by taking seriously what made America great in the first place, and reconsidering Exodus is indispensable to that task. There are two orders to be considered in the rise and fall of nations—the physical order, including the economy and the military, and the moral order, including freedom and justice. To try to make America great through the economy and the military alone can only fail
too many people look to material progress as the solution. Was that what Trump was promising and delivering?jerry_{February 7, 2023
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Jery at 37, If you're going to quote Os Guinness, do it right. Especially for those who never heard of him. Progressive? Progress for who? Those who want to overthrow thousands of years of right living for momentary gain? Things have been tried but why? Boredom? A desire for pleasure? A lack of understanding about why some people live a certain way? In the United States, so-called Progressives only want permission to do what they want. Example: "Abortion on demand and without apology." Who are they asking about "apology"? Nobody? Wake up everybody. No one should just do whatever. That is why we have laws. That is why people seek the truth. That is why some seek to hide behind elaborate arguments to avoid the truth. Something that is yellow cannot also be blue. Every child needs to be brought up in the truth. Os Guinness is a wise man and he desires the good of all. Endless "disagreements" should not stand in the way of doing right.relatd_{February 7, 2023
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Os Guinness seems to believe a religious change is necessary to save the current world. While this maybe true, it is a non starter because people reflexively reject this. They might not reject an analysis of what is winning, namely Paris or progressive ideas.
After nearly two and a half centuries it is clear that Paris and the revolutionary faith that flowed from the great upheaval of 1789 has betrayed its promise again and again—in all three major forms. Shaped and bound by its assumptions, it cannot hope to do otherwise. It is flawed, it spells disaster for humanity, and it needs to be reexamined comprehensively and firmly rejected. Paris and 1789 in whatever form ends with revolutionaries who are wreckers and tyrants
but this will only buy a short fix.jerry_{February 7, 2023
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The Magna Carter is full of short expressions of the world’s conundrum. Some are
But rightly understood, Paris and the progressive left lead to repression, whereas Sinai is in fact the true and the original revolutionary faith, the best and most inspiring vision of freedom—the right way up for humans three of the most powerful modern claimants to human allegiance: the Jewish and Christian faiths, progressive secularism, and Islam the world finds itself torn between the two great bookends of human history, authoritarianism and anarchy Is it still possible in the advanced modern world to build societies with both freedom and order at the same time? Can we solve the conundrum on which the French Revolution was impaled: guaranteeing both freedom for all and power for the people—without producing chaos and thus prompting the control of dictatorship we must be clear what we believe is real We must be equally clear about what we believe is the right side up and why For many people the issue of reality is irrelevant if not frivolous
so far truth is not an issue. Is it just what he believes. But still only at the beginning. Aside: it seems every paragraph has a new idea, observation, conclusion or fact. The introduction is the most content full reading I have seen. But it is not so far a book of ultimate truth. If it was, it might get in the way.jerry_{February 6, 2023
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Relatd, lies are rewarded, truth is punished, people do not want to face high conflict with the nasty, powerful and ruthless or cruel. There is such a miasma of lies that it is hard to discern truth, cf Rom 1. Meanwhile, the BATNA of lawfulnes is being eroded by those wanting to precipitate lawless ideological oligarchy with their side in charge. They are suicidally anti civilisational but imagine they are part of a wave of progress. Such does not end well, but many have been led to despise sound history. That, too, is no accident.An empire of lies will eventually collapse. KFkairosfocus_{February 6, 2023
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Vivid, worshipping the father of lies. KF PS, part of the geostrategic problem is that the heart of the US was settled by people fleeing long term power rivalries and wars expressing strategic contests, e.g. Britain and France had 600 years of wars. The US Navy is replacement for the Royal Navy in guarding sea lanes, an inherently long term comitment, but the US mentality is not long term/strategic. Checkers, not Chess, Baseball, not Test Cricket. There is reluctance to admit to WW IV, a slow burn, nukes age global geostrategic contest of 4th gen character, just as no one admitted that WW III -- the cold war -- was a world war in progress. That is how Jamaica had an unacknowledged 4 year civil war. In key cases, if you go in, it is for the long haul. The alternative is punitive expeditions, plural, and you will be propagandistically portrayed as baby killing bullies. So, there is need to open to a geostrategic paradigm shift. BTW, Britain won the Irish war by taking disproportionate casualties to contain it until there was someone who could make a bargain that would stick. Sometimes, the alternatives are the bad and the worse than merely bad. For example China's Taiwan push is a blue ocean breakout push similar to the Kaiser c 1900 - 1918. If they seize Taiwan, Japan, S Korea, Australia and possibly Singapore will go nuclear. India is nuclear, so is N Korea. Nuclear war will be all but inevitable. What is the reality of a disaster averted? Where are the credible statesmen of serious integrity?kairosfocus_{February 5, 2023
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JVL, if his day work is anything like mine, confidentiality is a condition of sustainable success. You have to have a reputation for trusted information security, which is very hard to restore once broken. In a day of the lawless, ruthless, and anti civilisational, that means liars and slanderers have advantages. KFkairosfocus_{February 5, 2023
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Relatd: I am a professional researcher. I do a lot of fact checking from multiple sources. A number of them not being the mainstream media. What can you tell us about the nature of your research and your clients/employers?JVL_{February 5, 2023
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Wow talk about moving the Overton Window. From tonight’s Grammys sponsored by Pfizer https://twitter.com/tpostmillennial/status/1622449931121479680?s=61&t=fVGKERI2NtIFXF_YAESuKA Vividvividbleau_{February 5, 2023
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Vivid at 29, Thank you for your response. I do understand your position on senseless wars. Regards, relatdrelatd_{February 5, 2023
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Related 27 I don’t want to derail this thread anymore than I have already. I do want to apologize to you for going off on the military in response to one of your posts. Unfortunately I am so sick and tired of our young men being sacrificed in senseless wars and I took it out on you, that was not fair to you. What should people do? The only power we have is to exercise our displeasure by our vote and our money. We must fight for election integrity. More importantly we must focus our energies where we can actually affect outcomes ,that is locally, specifically school boards, state legislators, state Governors. We need to identify those news agencies that repeatedly lied to us, cancel subscriptions, don’t support Hollywood movies or entities like Net Flix ,Disney etc, etc. Yes I do conclude people want to be lied to. People want reasons regardless of whether it is true or not to justify their respective positions. “I don’t guess about things, I find out. Most people are like that” You are like that but most people don’t as evidenced by their vote and wallet. I believe what people do not what they say. Vividvividbleau_{February 5, 2023
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Correction the NBC reporter was suspended. Vividvividbleau_{February 5, 2023
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Vb at 26, Jerry did not back up his claim with anything. Tell me, what should the people do when the mainstream media lies to them? Do you conclude that people want to be lied to? I am a professional researcher. I do a lot of fact checking from multiple sources. A number of them not being the mainstream media. Propaganda happens all the time but it's not invisible. If you think people want to be lied then tell us why they would like lies instead of the truth. Another thing. People need true and factual information to live their lives. I don't guess about things, I find out. Most people are like that. They distrust the media and continue on with their lives as best they can.relatd_{February 5, 2023
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KF 24 Unfortunately as Jerry has noted the American people drink the kool aid served to them by the press ( the propaganda arm of the left). They do no independent fact checking or seem to care. After so many exposed lies you would think at some point they would wake up but sadly I have concluded they are not ignorant they want to be lied to. In todays world the press get Pulizers for printing lies but fire journalists for telling the truth ( NBC reporter on Pelosi) etc. The biggest contributor to the agit prop is the press and the media who have totally discarded their role as a check to lies and disinformation, the holding of the powerful to account., they have become an arm of the govt, the rich and powerful spewing lies and propaganda 24/7. We’re seeing it in real time as more lies by the media are being perpetuated on the American people about the balloon which I only bring up as an example of real time propaganda. Vividvividbleau_{February 5, 2023
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Relatd, they don't need to host a traditional naval assault. 21 years ago, they hosted those who went to flight school then used utility knives to turn civil airliners into hostages loaded cruise missiles. Have we forgotten already? KFkairosfocus_{February 5, 2023
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Vivid, thanks. Slander by framing. For example, pushing yourself and your hand inside a person's personal space is extremely provocative harassment. The case of Nicholas Sandmann shows that even restrainet can be mischaracterised. The complicit media are party to the slander, and the cultural marxist scale of victimhood is part of the cynical tactics. And right now the US had better wake up to a Reichstag fire incident and where it points, i/l/o the issue of lawlessness. The agit prop turnabout projection tactic needs to be exposed, e.g. it was Poles who attacked German radio stations in Sept 1939. In reality, concentration camp prisoners were dressed in false uniforms and murdered. The rule in response is simple: lawlessness will not be tolerated, including slander -- and including grooming etc. KFkairosfocus_{February 5, 2023
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KF 21 I apologize it was my fault. More on topic have you heard of the book “Beautiful Trouble “ ? Supposedly it is a Saul Alinsky for radicals for the 21st century, the tactics to be used to expand the window. The link is only around 10 minutes. Basically it is not about the actions it is actions designed to get reactions. https://newdiscourses.com/2023/02/action-reaction-and-beautiful-trouble/ Vividvividbleau_{February 5, 2023
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to debating how the military lies etc? KF
People are here to rant not understand. The Magna Carter points out that the word rant means nonsense and that describes a lot of UD.
origin late 16th cent. (in the sense ‘behave in a boisterous way’): from Dutch ranten ‘talk nonsense, rave.’
Aside: further into Magna Carter Excellent on history - points to 5 major revolutions - English revolution of 1640s, American Revolution of 1776, French Revolution of 1789, Russian Revolution of 1917 and Chinese Revolution of 1949. First two led to a better world, the latter led to chaos and death but it is the latter three that are winning. interesting that the civilized world is choosing death for themselves and their children based on lies as opposed to freedom and flourishing. People really are ignorant. Being well educated doesn’t change that.jerry_{February 5, 2023
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Folks, how did we get from Metaxas and Os Guinness [BTW, one of Francis Schaeffer's proteges and so VERY aware of grand cultural trends analysis and iconic/epochal cases and events . . . and a descendant of THE Guinness (as in, is good for you) himself!] to debating how the military lies etc? KF PS, have a look at the PS to OP, it will help us use Overton Window analysis informed by the issue of lawless oligarchy. Speaking of which, I think I need to put up another long form video interview, with a historian.kairosfocus_{February 5, 2023
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Any idea coming from the left is by definition wrong. They are appealing but 100% wrong. If they were right then they would be adopted by conservatives and reflexive action by the left would deny it as true. The motivation of the left is against not for. So they have no ideology that is positive. They are definitely not interested in truth. Just started Magna Carter and Os while having good intentions is out of touch with reality. Os Hasn’t a clue as to what is wrong or how to correct it. He knows something is terribly wrong though. At least so far.jerry_{February 5, 2023
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