Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

L&FP, 60: Illustrating an all too common atheistical attitude

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The below is taken from a typical Internet Atheist trollish rhetorical stunt, illustrating all too familiar patterns of fallacious reasoning that are here seen in an attempt to bully and stereotype Christians as ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked. For first level responses see here [Jesus], here [worldviews], here [evil Christians].

This sort of polarising snide stunt is what we need to recognise as a real problem (and no, turnabout projection is not an acceptable response), acknowledging that it is unacceptable bigotry and intellectual irresponsibility, and then set such aside, there are fate of civilisation issues on the table:

Now, let us ponder:

Where we do not need to go. END

U/D, Oct 1, on the real political spectrum by way of the Overton Window and BATNA concept:

Comments
FG, we are dealing with an age where people decry and trash what is inconvenient to them, not excepting self evident, plumb line first principles of logic that they don't like. This is a day in which -- as can be seen above -- the "simple" gospel (and its entrained ethics, cf The Lord's Prayer) has been trashed using such techniques and such trashing has been publicly and widely praised. So, many have been deeply warped thus polarised and have been granted a sense of social permission to pull the sort of rhetorical stunt you see above. For instance, what was your church's and your community's response just 15 years ago when globally prominent atheistical spokesman, Richard Dawkins, published the following in a runaway bestseller?
“The God of the Old Testament [= The God of Israel . . . ] is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully . . . ” [Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, Great Britain: Bantam Press, 2006, 31.]
As in, I did _____, my home church did _______ and the people of common sense and common decency in my community did ________ . My bet, little and nothing, in the face of a red flag warning (cf. the diagram on march of folly in the OP). A great many people, Christians and otherwise, across our civilisation don't even understand how warped and polarised many people are, how absurd their thinking is, how ill informed it is, just how much strawman caricature thinking is involved. Where -- on abundant, bloodily repeated history -- such predictably ends up in ruin, in a march of folly ending in disaster. (As in, what in outline is the history of the Peloponnesian war, what are its lessons for sound governance including sound international relations and the viability of democracies? Why is it that by and large we don't know about this key case?) Remember, some are now confused as to even whether they are male or female (which, is not a coincidence) and children in schools and libraries are being publicly groomed for destructive sexual exploitation etc (also, not a coincidence). This sort of absurd, crooked yardstick thinking is manifestly ruinous to sound civilisation. The "we" therefore includes all who hope for a decent and sustainable future. The public "taking down" -- by sufficiently repeated exposure of such absurdity that the message that this is utter folly is hammered home, is therefore a task for all people of common good sense, including at first level restoration of common decency and reasonableness. What is at stake is literally the viability of a civilisation of the civil peace of justice, with lawful freedom, where civilisational collapse and chaos leading to sliding into a dark night of tyranny -- lawless oligarchy is the NATURAL state of government and society -- would carry with it mass death in perhaps the dozens to hundreds of millions. Don't knock this, THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE PAST 100+ YEARS WITH ASSORTED IDEOLOGICAL TYRANNIES. And, surprise -- not -- the major media, pundits and profs are studiously avoiding telling the truth about such. Start by looking up the Reichstag Fire incident and asking yourself why this lesson on how a constitutional democracy failed within living memory is not widely and publicly taught with due lessons drawn. (A similar stunt was pulled in my homeland in 1976, leading to 4th generation civil war and chaos down to today.) So, again, the "we" is anyone serious about a reasonable future, the "taking down" is public exposure and correction of a march of folly, the stakes include averting a civilisational collapse. For Evangelical Christians, this is the responsible defence of sound citizenship and prudent governance exemplified by Ac 27, and again, surprise -- not! -- this lesson on a pivotal case study is not widely taught. Forget the background parable of the ship of state Luke subtly alluded to by making a point to draw out this fourth shipwreck Paul experienced. We have been systematically manipulated and misled into foolishness that has potentially disastrous consequences, so responsible people need to wake up to our peril, publicly correct gross imprudence, a rising tide of fallacies and the march of folly, calling for restoration of sanity, sense and common decency. Along the way, some pointed lessons on cognitive dissonance and projection to the despised other need to be drawn, as well as on how intimidation into conformity with folly and fashionable evil uses cognitive dissonance resolution mechanisms to brainwash us into a proverbial march of lemmings. Then, we can actually have a serious conversation on fundamental truth starting with today's equivalent to the altar to the unknown god in Ac 17. Not to mention onward on Nimrod, strong man-ism and sound civilisation. And more. KFkairosfocus
September 30, 2022
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From the beginning, the serpent claimed to have knowledge superior to God's: "Gen3:4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die." The serpent always makes God out to be an evil, unfair meanie, keeping the really 'good stuff' from people: "5a For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened," The serpent promises that the superior knowledge to be gained by some "easy way" (eating an apple, joining 'Atheists International') will make the doer as wiser or wiser than God Himself: "5b....and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." This line of BS is literally as old as mankind itself. It comes from the pit of hell. The lost who repeat are very sad, sick people.Red Reader
September 30, 2022
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KF: ""These things need to be identified and a whole class of polarised, ideological rhetoric needs to be identified, acknowledged as out of order, taken down. KF:""...This shows what we need to fix. "" What actions do you propose to realize this? How are you going to fix it? And who's the "we"? From a Christian perspective isn't this the reason and purpose of spreading the gospel? Almost sounds like you want to impose some kind of censorship on people before they even hear the gospel? What do you mean by "taken down" exactly and how is that going to come to pass?Fordgreen
September 30, 2022
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VL, this is, as stated, a case study, albeit a negative one. This shows what we need to fix. Notice, for example that he starts by inadvertently implying key first duties of reason, which here again show their inescapable presence. He then proceeds to material breach and becomes a poster child for a serious problem. KFkairosfocus
September 30, 2022
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OK, it is verbatim. Thanks. Pretty poor language. Why post it here? That seems a bit trollish itself, it seems to me.Viola Lee
September 30, 2022
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VL, I refuse to do this troll the favour of promotion. It is real, it runs in sentences in just the order given, it was an unprovoked attack and it illustrates serious problems. KF PS, This particular rhetoric comes from the so called new atheists, and Dan Brown and Dawkins provide a pair of notorious examples from widely praised books. I cite Dawkins, already noting his ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked. Here he is,
“The God of the Old Testament [= The God of Israel . . . ] is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully . . . ” [Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, Great Britain: Bantam Press, 2006, 31.]
Why is it this man continued to be feted after publishing toxic and irresponsible rhetoric like that? Sadly, there are far too many other cases in point, the problem is real, widespread and getting worse. It infests all sorts of topics and issues.kairosfocus
September 30, 2022
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So, KF it was verbatim? Could you provide a link to the source? I do not know what GP Pundit is.Viola Lee
September 30, 2022
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FG, we need diagnosis based on undeniable real life cases. For cause, I hold that deep down, we know ourselves to be duty-bound towards truth, right reason, warrant and wider prudence, sound conscience, neighbour, so fairness and justice etc. Indeed, the rhetorical stunts in this case pivot on that right from the outset, notice, he tries to dismiss things as mythology and nonsense, in opening words: false, poorly reasoned, lacking warrant. And yet, he is instantly in breach as he sets up and knocks over strawmen rather than addressing actual evidence and argument, all the while showing outright scorn. He is blinded by rage and is grossly ill informed and unfair, taking all too common online vituperation for fact. And more. These things need to be identified and a whole class of polarised, ideological rhetoric needs to be identified, acknowledged as out of order, taken down. Especially when we know from still living memory, that unchecked loaded stereotypes, stigmatising and scapegoating lead to hate and can end in crimes against humanity. It is only when there is a restoration of responsibility that genuine discussion and reasonable conclusions can be had. So, no, it is not time for shoulder shrugging, it is time to face, then turn from gross irresponsibility. KFkairosfocus
September 30, 2022
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VL, the only change to the LH column is to break it up into successive cells. The case is chosen from a trollish attack posed as shut up, marginalising and belittling rhetoric because it is a clear example of a seriously problematic attitude, not just to Christians but to too many ideologised serious issues. I suspect it reflects focus group tested rhetorical, agit prop devices and aptly illustrates a kind of hostile, strawman tactic, ad hominem polarisation that is now too often seen as supplanting civilised reasoning. This is where too many are and we need to fix this before it spins out of control. KFkairosfocus
September 30, 2022
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Isn't this what would be expected of unbelievers and what the Bible states would be the case? I don't think I get the purpose of the post. But perhaps this offers a possible solution? 2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.Fordgreen
September 30, 2022
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Why post this when it's from another site? Are the parts in the left column verbatim, or your paraphrases?Viola Lee
September 30, 2022
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L&FP, 60: Illustrating an all too common atheistical attitudekairosfocus
September 30, 2022
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