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Sean Carroll: “Nowadays, when a more scientific worldview has triumphed and everyone knows that God doesn’t exist . . . ” — really?

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Carroll, here, was responding to a Weekly Standard cover article on the reactions to philosopher Nagel’s publication of Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False :

What I find particularly interesting in the captioned clip is the laudatory reference to “a more Scientific WORLDVIEW” which is immediately problematic, as worldviews are matters of philosophical points of view and linked cultural agendas. That is, they are categorically distinct from science in any proper sense.

A clue for what is really meant comes from what immediately follows: “and everyone knows that God doesn’t exist.” Really, and how can science actually establish such a thing, especially in a world with literally billions of theists, many being reasonably educated and informed? Plainly, what is actually implied is that in the academy and among the post-Christian Western chattering classes, evolutionary materialistic scientism is a dominant and in fact domineering ideology.

One that, in fact, rather inconveniently has had a 100+ year track record of not just marginalising, silencing or expelling critics or doubters, but a body count northwards of 100 millions. (So much for the snide characterisation of the West’s Christian heritage by the Torquemada standard. [Cf. here on in context on the sins and blessings of Christendom.])

We could make reference to a well known cat out of the bag remark in NYRB by Richard Lewontin on how a priori materialism has been imposed on science, or the like. However, that is liable to simply invite troll rants, let the link stand for those who need to re-familiarise themselves with the record.

Instead, let us simply note that in the captioned, Carroll more than amply confirms the point regarding the cat Lewontin let out of the bag. Where, too, scientism — the notion that, roughly, evolutionary materialism dominated, Big-S “Science” is “the only begetter of truth [and thus, knowledge]” — is immediately self-refuting. For, this claim is a claim about philosophy that tries to discredit such claims. Unfortunately, that is not going to help those trapped in the evo mat cave escape their bonds and delusions. The issue is how to move the Overton Window:

Of course, we have already taken step 1, by headlining and briefly exposing immediately fatal errors on the public record for one of the better known spokesmen for evolutionary materialistic scientism [= “naturalism,” more or less].

What can we do for step 2?

We have to look at warrant for theism (at least at intro to 101 level), and in my view a good place to start is an article responding to a dismissive article that popped up here in the Caribbean about a year ago. Here we go:

>>Over the years, many millions have met and been transformed through meeting God in the face of Christ. This includes countless Jamaicans [and many other people across the Caribbean and wider world]. It also includes many famed scholars, eminent scientists and leaders of powerful reformations. Logically, if just one of these millions has actually been reconciled with God through Christ, God must be real and the gospel must be true. (Where, if instead so many are deeply delusional, that would undermine the rational credibility of the human mind.)

However, for some years now various voices have tried to dismissively question God, the gospel and Christians. So, it is not unexpected to see Mr Gordon Robinson writing in the Gleaner recently (on Sunday, August 26, 2018),  about alleged “dangerous dogma promulgated by the Church and its many brainwashed surrogates,” “perverse propaganda spread by Christian churches,” “sycophants” and the like.

Along the way, he managed to ask a pivotal question: “Who/what is God?”

Regrettably, he also implied outright fraud by church leaders: “Either the Church has NO CLUE about who/what God really is, or it deliberately misrepresents God’s essence in order to frighten people into becoming church members and tithing. Nothing else makes sense.”

Fig 1 DNA, Showing the Genetic Code (HT ResearchGate)

In fact, a simple Internet search might give a better answer. For, thinkers such as a Thomas Aquinas or an Augustine of Hippo or a Paul of Tarsus or even a Wayne Grudem or a William Lane Craig have long since credibly addressed the idea of God and systematic theology at a little more sophisticated level than Sunday School lessons or Internet Atheist web sites. In so doing, they have made responsible cases that rise above the level of caricatures of the art on the Sistine Chapel’s ceiling.

We may begin with Paul in Romans 1, 57 AD: “Rom 1:19 . . . what can be known about God is plain to [people], because God has shown it to them. 20 For [God’s] invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So [people] are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.”  [ESV]

Here, one of the top dozen minds of our civilisation first points out how our morally governed interior life and what we see in the world all around jointly call us to God our Creator. But, too often we suppress the force of that inner testimony and outer evidence. (This, predictably, leads to unsound thinking and destructive deeds stemming from benumbed consciences and en-darkened minds.)

For one, consider how for sixty years now we have known that the DNA in the cells of our bodies has in it complex, alphanumeric, algorithmic code that is executed through molecular nanotechnology to build proteins, the workhorses of biological life. That’s why Sir Francis Crick wrote to his son Michael on March 19, 1953 that “we believe that the DNA is a code. That is, the order of bases (the letters) makes one gene different from another gene (just as one page of print is different from another).”

Crick’s letter

Figure 2: Crick’s March 19, 1953 letter, p. 5 with a highlight (Fair use)

Yes, alphanumeric code (so, language!), algorithms (so, purpose!), i.e. intelligent design of life from the first living cell on. Including, us. No wonder the dean of the so-called New Atheists was forced to admit that Biology studies complicated things that give a strong appearance of design. 

1947 saw the advent of the transistor age, allowing storage of a single bit of information in a tiny electronic wonder. We have since advanced to computers based on silicon chips comparable in size to a thumb-nail, with millions of transistors. These microchips and support machinery process many millions of instructions per second and have storage capacities of many gigabytes. Coded electronic communication signals routinely go across millions of miles through the solar system.  Every one of these devices and systems required careful design by highly educated engineers, scientists and programmers. The living, self-replicating cell’s sophistication dwarfs all of these; yet we question the all-knowing God, the author of life.

A nerve cell

Next, Mr. Robinson and others inevitably appeal to our known duty to truth, right reasoning, fairness, prudent judgement, etc.  But, where did that inner moral law (testified to by our consciences) come from? Surely, it is not a delusion; or else responsible, freely rational discussion would collapse into nihilistic chaos: might and manipulation (= “power and propaganda”) make ‘right,’ ‘rights,’ ‘justice,’ ‘truth,’ ‘knowledge’ etc. Instead, our conscience-guarded hearts and minds clearly show the Creator’s design that we freely live by the light and law of truth and right.

Such considerations – and many more – point us to the only serious candidate for the source of reality that can bridge IS and OUGHT: the inherently good (and wise) Creator God, a necessary and maximally great being. Who is fully worthy of our loyalty and of humble, responsible, reasonable service through doing the good. Then, we may readily draw out the classic understanding of God described in scripture and studied in systematic theology: all-good, eternal, creator and Lord with sound knowledge and full capability to work out his good purposes in the right way at the right time. [Cf. Grudem, at Web Archive, here.]

Moreover, what we most of all need to know about God is taught by Jesus the Christ, recorded in scripture within eye-witness lifetime then accurately handed down to us for 2000 years now, at fearsome cost: the blood of the martyrs. Martyrs, who had but one incentive: that they directly knew and must peacefully stand by the eternal truth – cost what it will. They refused to be frightened by dungeon, fire or sword, much less mere rhetoric. Why would thousands die horribly to promote a known lie?

[I add, Strobel on the Case for Christ:]

Their record is that Christ is the express image of his Father, Logos – Cosmos-ordering Reason himself, prophesied Messiah, the Saviour who in love died for us on a cross. He rose from the dead as Lord with 500 eye-witnesses, precisely fulfilling over three hundred prophecies that were long since recorded in the Old Testament. (See esp. Isaiah 52:13 – 53:12, c. 700 BC.) He ascended to his Father in the presence of the apostles. He shall return as eternal Judge, before whom we must all account. (Yes, professing and “backsliding” Christians too.) The Bible also records Jesus’ prayer for us: “this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and [“thy Son”] Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent.” [John 17:1- 5, cf. 3:16.]

That is the truth witnessed by the church, whether it was 33 AD in Jerusalem before an angry Sanhedrin, or 50 AD before the laughing Athenians (who had built a public monument to their ignorance of God), or today . . .>>

So, Mr Carroll, no, it is not so that “everyone knows that God doesn’t exist.” Indeed, just the opposite is true: arguably, millions, having met and been transformed by God, know God. They don’t just know about him.

Perhaps, it is time for a more sober-minded discussion on the roots of reality. END

F/N: For reference, I attach, first on turning back at the brink:

Next, on the Overton Window (vs Plato’s cave of manipulated shadow-shows:

Then, on a model of key spheres and sources of influence:

Then, on a model of political possibilities, drawing out the significance of Constitutional Democracy:

U/d b for clarity, nb Nil

Also, on law:

Noting Augustine and Aquinas:

And Aquinas on law in general:

Comments
EG, I haven't said this is worse than say Rome in the days of Caligula then Nero; something we must never return to. What I have taken is that Epstein was clearly a trafficking node, actually grooming and "breaking in" some key victims (possibly with one or more confederates, at least one being female) then trafficked onwards including a key case that points to the UK upper classes. The implication is, pervading of the elites of our civilisation with a terrible network, today; one that connects directly to the abortion holocaust, ongoing perversion of law and usurpation by judges of unilateral Constitution over-ruling power, evident corruption of legislatures and media houses that now routinely resort to tactics of media-amplified reputation lynching by groundless or ill-founded accusation and and worse -- the corrupting influence of blood guilt is patent. In answer, I put on the table the principle that there is a manifest, built-in law that governs us, starting from our intellects and extending to civil society and government; a law of our morally governed nature which we did not create nor can we change. One, that also points, like a compass-needle, to the roots of reality and the implication that the source of worlds, given such morally governed creatures, must be a necessary [independent] being that is both inherently good and utterly wise, with capability to cause and sustain a world. However, while I have responded to your assertions to provide a degree of balance, that is not what this thread is about; the Carroll assertion is on the table with all that it implies, when it has to give an account before the bar of comparative difficulties. KFkairosfocus
October 2, 2019
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KF@25, thank you fore the lovely story of the children and mother. Sadly, the horrors of Epstein are not new. I don’t believe that it is any worse (or better) than it was at any time in history. It wasn’t that long ago that pedophiles and rapist were enabled by our cultural attitudes of family shame in the case of pedophilia and blame the victim in the case of rape. It wasn’t that many years ago that a husband could not be charged for raping his wife.Ed George
October 2, 2019
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Interesting who are not here.kairosfocus
October 1, 2019
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'From the womb, before the Day-Star have I begotten you.' - the mysterious 'uterus eternum', referred to in Psalm 109 (110)Axel
October 1, 2019
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Yes, KF, it's all front and centre, now, isn't it. Can't watch film on the box now, without finding yourself watching a couple going at it like knives. But how strange that you should remark : 'If moms aren’t angels they should be', as I was only thinking this morning', in relation to this thread, I wonder if mothers realise how incredibly lovingly, to what a privileged height, God must have created them, to give birth to a tiny, new human bieng and nurture it - to do so, as best they may, preparing them to cope with the world and its wickedness and yet remain 'other Christs', for a world in need of their love and wisdom. And to an extent, of course, that goes for fathers : that it is difficult to imagine a more epic and responsible vocation than to bring up a family ; which reminds me of the extraordinarlily perceptive saying of C S Lewis: 'The homemaker has the ultimate career. All other careers exist for one purpose only - and that is to support the ultimate career." However, if I am correct in my 'suspicion' that women are closer to God the Father in his eternal essence, it should be no surprise that they seem to be literally (in terms of the actual nature of angels as pure spirits) more angelic than us - for better or worse, moreover ! Is there not a greater immediacy, as well as intransigence about their reactions : in their gossip, at least, the first to judge, the first to condemn and the first to transgress ! Also, their general intuitiveness and psychic faculty would suggest a closer proximity to the world of the spirit. So, our testosterone seems to act as something of a damper on those finer, more angelic qualities. Of course, they are all broad generalisations, and no guarantee, in any case, that their angelic nature cannot fall, like that of Lucifer and his hordes angel-demons. However, it is worth noting, I believe, that true strength, spiritual strength, is pre-eminently passive, although of course, the grace of courage must surely also play a major role. Weird to read that Christ's moment of greatest glory on earth was that of his absolute degradation and death on Golgotha - Paul's evocation of it as a triumphal procession in which he led the vanquished demons as his captives. Actually, I am strongly inclined to believe - well, there seem to be indications - that women are closer to God the Father in his eternal essence. They certainly seem to be top-weights in life's patriarchal handicap, don't they. I'm reminded of film-star, ballroom dancer of the forties and fifties, Ginger Roger's 'bon mot', to the effect that she had to do everything Fred Astaire did... only backwards. Did you ever see the catechesis on the angels by John-Paul II I posted on here a whole back, KF ? I'll append it anyway, as others would probably find it as fascinating as I did. Here it is: https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/catechesis-on-the-angels-7960Axel
October 1, 2019
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Axel, We do forget the angels. What a lovely image. Sunday, I sat next to a little Haitian boy and just behind another. Mommy for no 1 was helping to lead the service. I yet remember her wedding, as they had to do the vows in French and English. Bravely, she answered in English, I do, I will. And now a lovely little boy was next to me, with his God Mother on the other side. In front, the other little boy -- both were sleeping -- was next to his mom, another lovely Haitian lady. I could see how she positively glowed. If moms aren't angels they should be. And what struck me was how I was watching living jewels, precious. And, there is scripture that talks of us as living stones built as a growing Temple, founded on and aligned with our Cornerstone. One of the horrors of our age is our violation of the precious, the innocent. Our transmutation of the beautiful and holy into the ugly, the twisted, the frustrated from rightful end, the evil, the downright demonic. And what happened with and around Mr Epstein is as solid a proof as can be that there is something rotten in the heart of our civilisation. It were better that a millstone . . . KFkairosfocus
October 1, 2019
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@ Your #21, KF : '.... their (the little ones') angels look on the face of God at all times.' It's not difficult to believe, is it ? Like little jewels, humming-birds- except, somehow, radiant. And, of course, the only one's with perfect intellectual integrity : they want to know the truth about everything they can 'get a handle on'. Period. The world and its Epsteins hasn't yet darkened their vision. Apparently, the very high-status ring of paedophiles is extremely large - many thousands strong. But I believe it would always have been so - though today's pornography cannot have improved matters. Mammon-worship, plus Moloch worship, seem to have destroyed the US. Yes, of course, the media have given so much exra power to the rulers of tjis world, if we did not have Christ, now in our faith and forever, it would all be very depressing. Isn't history largely a chronicle of the ministrations of psychopaths (with a sprinkling of sociopaths and misguided souls, right up to the present day)?Axel
October 1, 2019
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Inflationary paradigm in trouble after Planck - 2013 Anna Ijjas, Paul J. Steinhardt, Abraham Loeb Excerpt of abstract: More important, though, is that all the simplest inflaton models are disfavored statistically relative to those with plateau-like potentials. We discuss how a restriction to plateau-like models has three independent serious drawbacks: it exacerbates both the initial conditions problem and the multiverse-unpredictability problem and it creates a new difficulty that we call the inflationary “unlikeliness problem.”,, http://arxiv.org/pdf/1304.2785v2.pdf One of cosmic inflation theory’s creators (Steinhardt) now questions own theory - April 2011 Excerpt: Inflation adds a whole bunch of really unlikely metaphysical assumptions — a new force field that has a never-before-observed particle called the “inflaton”, an expansion faster than the speed of light, an interaction with gravity waves which are themselves only inferred– just so that it can explain the unlikely contingency of a finely-tuned big bang. But instead of these extra assumptions becoming more-and-more supported, the trend went the opposite direction, with more-and-more fine-tuning of the inflation assumptions until they look as fine-tuned as Big Bang theories. At some point, we have “begged the question”. Frankly, the moment we add an additional free variable, I think we have already begged the question. In a Bayesean comparison of theories, extra variables reduce the information content of the theory, (by the so-called Ockham factor), so these inflation theories are less, not more, explanatory than the theory they are supposed to replace.,,, after 20 years of work, if we haven’t made progress, but have instead retreated, it is time to cut bait. https://uncommondescent.com/cosmology/cosmology-one-of-cosmic-inflation-theory%E2%80%99s-creators-now-questions-own-theory/
Moreover, there are 'anomalies' in the CMBR that disconfirm the simplest inflation models,
Planck reveals an almost perfect Universe (Disconfirms inflationary models) – video Quote at 2:00 minute mark: "What's surprising in Planck's latest findings and is inconsistent with prevailing theories, is the presence of unexpected large scale anomalies in the sky. Including a large cold region. Stronger fluctuations in one half of the sky than the other. And less light signals than expected across the entire sky." Planck spokesman: "When we look at only the large features on this (CMBR) map you find that our find that our best fitting theory (inflation) has a problem fitting the data." "Planck launched in 2009,, is the 3rd mission to study the Cosmic Microwave Background to date. While these unusual features in the sky were hinted at the two previous US missions, COBE and WMAP, Planck's ability to measure the tiniest of fluctuations in the Cosmic Microwave Background has made these so called anomalies impossible to ignore." Planck spokesman: "Because of these features that we are finding in the sky, people really are in a situation now where they cannot ignore them any more. ,,, We've established them (the anomalies) as fact!". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2CWaLU6eMI
Moreover, what is curious about some of these 'anomalies' in the CMBR (that cannot be explained by the 'simple' inflation model of materialists), is that these 'anomalies' in the Cosmic Background Radiation also strangely line up with the earth and solar system.
What Is Evil About The Axis Of Evil? - February 17, 2015 The Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) Radiation contains small temperature fluctuations. When these temperature fluctuations are analyzed using image processing techniques (specifically spherical harmonics), they indicate a special direction in space, or, in a sense, an axis through the universe. This axis is correlated back to us, and causes many difficulties for the current big bang and standard cosmology theories. What has been discovered is shocking. Two scientists, Kate Land and João Magueijo, in a paper in 2005 describing the axis, dubbed it the “Axis of Evil” because of the damage it does to current theories, and (tongue in cheek) as a response to George Bush’ Axis of Evil speech regarding Iraq, Iran and, North Korea. (Youtube clip on site) In the above video, Max Tegmark describes in a simplified way how spherical harmonics analysis decomposes the small temperature fluctuations into more averaged and spatially arranged temperature components, known as multipoles. The “Axis of Evil” correlates to the earth’s ecliptic and equinoxes, and this represents a very unusual and unexpected special direction in space, a direct challenge to the Copernican Principle. http://www.theprinciplemovie.com/evil-axis-evil/
At the 13:55 minute mark of this following video, Max Tegmark, an atheist who specializes in this area of study, finally admits, post Planck 2013, that the CMBR anomalies do indeed line up with the earth and solar system
"Thoughtcrime: The Conspiracy to Stop The Principle" - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0eVUSDy_rO0#t=832
Here is an excellent clip from "The Principle" that explains all of these ‘anomalies’ that line up with earth and solar system in an easy to understand manner.
Cosmic Microwave Background Proves Intelligent Design (disproves Copernican principle) (clip of “The Principle”) - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htV8WTyo4rw
In other words, the "tiny temperature variations" in the CMBR, (from the large scale structures in the universe, to the earth and solar system themselves), reveal teleology, (i.e. a goal directed purpose, a plan, a reason), that specifically included the earth from the start. ,,, The earth, from what our best science can now tell us, is not some random cosmic fluke (and/or some random quantum fluctuation) as atheists had presupposed. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/our-solar-system-is-a-lot-rarer-than-it-was-a-quarter-century-ago/#comment-669546 https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-ever-cycling-universe-cycles-back-to-town/#comment-682338bornagain77
September 30, 2019
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TAMMIE LEE HAYNES, you may find these critiques of Carroll useful
The Universe Is Not Eternal - Johanan Raatz - March 1, 2014 Excerpt: Carroll pointed out that the BVG theorem only works within relativity but does not take quantum effects into account. Given a lack of a complete theory of quantum gravity, he argued that Craig can not claim that the universe began to exist. Though this is partly true, it turns out we are not completely in the dark. One thing known for certain about quantum gravity is something called the holographic principle. Precisely put, the holographic principle tells us that the entropy of a region of space (measured in terms of information) is directly proportional to a quarter of its surface area. The volume of this region is then actually a hologram of this information on its surface. Except this tells us something interesting about the universe as well. Entropy, or the amount of disorder present, always increases with time. In fact not only is this law inviolate, it is also how the flow of time is defined. Without entropy, there is no way to discern forwards and backwards in time. But if the holographic principle links the universe’s entropy and its horizon area then going back in time, all of space-time eventually vanishes to nothing at zero entropy. Thus Carroll’s argument is unsound. We already have enough knowledge about what happens beyond the BVG theorem that Craig cites. The universe is not eternal but created. It is interesting to note that this also undermines claims made by atheists like Hawking and Krauss that the universe could have fluctuated into existence from nothing. Their argument rests on the assumption that there was a pre-existent zero-point field or ZPF. The only trouble is that the physics of a ZPF requires a space-time to exist in. No space-time means no zero-point field, and without a zero-point field, the universe can not spontaneously fluctuate into existence. http://blog.proof.directory/2014/03/01/universe-not-eternal/ As a further point of interest, the Wall Theorem shows that even a quantum regime would have a beginning, and is therefore essentially to Quantum Physics what the BGV is to Classical Physics. You can read a post by Wall here where he explains why Carroll’s appeals to an eternal quantum regime are really unfounded and continue into the comments to see where he mentions his Theorem. - HeKS http://www.wall.org/~aron/blog/did-the-universe-begin-iv-quantum-eternity-theorem/ http://www.wall.org/~aron/blog/did-the-universe-begin-iv-quantum-eternity-theorem/#comment-2637787
This also may be of interest for you:
Cosmology: A Religion For Atheists? | William Lane Craig critiques (Hawking's) "The Theory Of Everything" movie - 28:00 minute mark – Hawking's quantum model still implies, despite misconceptions, a beginning for the universe https://youtu.be/i08-gCue7Ds?t=1687
As to "many cosmic inflation events resulting from quantum fluctuations",, The initial purpose of cosmological inflation was to try to explain why the universe is surprisingly flat and so smoothly distributed, or homogeneous. Yet, Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, who helped develop inflationary theory but is now scathing of it, states that the idea that inflationary theory produces any observable predictions at all,,, is based on a simplification of the theory that simply does not hold true. "The deeper problem is that once inflation starts, it doesn't end the way these simplistic calculations suggest," he says. "Instead, due to quantum physics it leads to a multiverse where the universe breaks up into an infinite number of patches. The patches explore all conceivable properties as you go from patch to patch. So that means it doesn't make any sense to say what inflation predicts, except to say it predicts everything.
Cosmic inflation is dead, long live cosmic inflation - 25 September 2014 Excerpt: (Inflation) theory, the most widely held of cosmological ideas about the growth of our universe after the big bang, explains a number of mysteries, including why the universe is surprisingly flat and so smoothly distributed, or homogeneous.,,, Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, who helped develop inflationary theory but is now scathing of it, says this is potentially a blow for the theory, but that it pales in significance with inflation's other problems. Meet the multiverse Steinhardt says the idea that inflationary theory produces any observable predictions at all – even those potentially tested by BICEP2 – is based on a simplification of the theory that simply does not hold true. "The deeper problem is that once inflation starts, it doesn't end the way these simplistic calculations suggest," he says. "Instead, due to quantum physics it leads to a multiverse where the universe breaks up into an infinite number of patches. The patches explore all conceivable properties as you go from patch to patch. So that means it doesn't make any sense to say what inflation predicts, except to say it predicts everything. If it's physically possible, then it happens in the multiverse someplace Steinhardt says the point of inflation was to explain a remarkably simple universe. "So the last thing in the world you should be doing is introducing a multiverse of possibilities to explain such a simple thing," he says. "I think it's telling us in the clearest possible terms that we should be able to understand this and when we understand it it's going to come in a model that is extremely simple and compelling. And we thought inflation was it – but it isn't." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26272-cosmic-inflation-is-dead-long-live-cosmic-inflation.html?page=1#.VCajrGl0y00
And as the old saying goes, a scientific theory that predicts everything predicts nothing at all. Max Tegmark himself, an atheist like Carroll, admitted that inflation sabotages our ability to make useful predictions. In fact, he stated that because of inflation “we physicists are no longer able to predict anything at all!”
WHAT SCIENTIFIC IDEA IS READY FOR RETIREMENT? Infinity - Max Tegmark - January 2014 and Feb. 2015 Excerpt: Physics is all about predicting the future from the past, but inflation seems to sabotage this: when we try to predict the probability that something particular will happen, inflation always gives the same useless answer: infinity divided by infinity. The problem is that whatever experiment you make, inflation predicts that there will be infinitely many copies of you far away in our infinite space, obtaining each physically possible outcome, and despite years of tooth-grinding in the cosmology community, no consensus has emerged on how to extract sensible answers from these infinities. So strictly speaking, we physicists are no longer able to predict anything at all! This means that today’s best theories similarly need a major shakeup, by retiring an incorrect assumption. Which one? Here’s my prime suspect: infinity. MAX TEGMARK – Physicist (personal note: actually the ‘theory’ that needs to be retired is the philosophy of Atheistic materialism in general) http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2015/02/20/infinity-ruining-physics/#.VOsRyS7cBCA
Here are a few more criticisms of Inflation theory:
A Matter of Considerable Gravity: On the Purported Detection of Gravitational Waves and Cosmic Inflation - Bruce Gordon - April 4, 2014 Excerpt: Thirdly, at least two paradoxes result from the inflationary multiverse proposal that suggest our place in such a multiverse must be very special: the "Boltzmann Brain Paradox" and the "Youngness Paradox." In brief, if the inflationary mechanism is autonomously operative in a way that generates a multiverse, then with probability indistinguishable from one (i.e., virtual necessity) the typical observer in such a multiverse is an evanescent thermal fluctuation with memories of a past that never existed (a Boltzmann brain) rather than an observer of the sort we take ourselves to be. Alternatively, by a second measure, post-inflationary universes should overwhelmingly have just been formed, which means that our existence in an old universe like our own has a probability that is effectively zero (i.e., it's nigh impossible). So if our universe existed as part of such a multiverse, it would not be at all typical, but rather infinitely improbable (fine-tuned) with respect to its age and compatibility with stable life-forms. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/04/a_matter_of_con084001.html Inflation Excerpt: In order to work, and as pointed out by Roger Penrose from 1986 on, inflation requires extremely specific initial conditions of its own, so that the problem of initial conditions is not solved: “There is something fundamentally misconceived about trying to explain the uniformity of the early universe as resulting from a thermalization process. […] For, if the thermalization is actually doing anything […] then it represents a definite increasing of the entropy. Thus, the universe would have been even more special before the thermalization than after.”[104] Penrose, Roger (1989). “Difficulties with Inflationary Cosmology”. Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 271: 249–264. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_%28cosmology%29#Criticisms
bornagain77
September 30, 2019
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Axel, our big problem is actually the ideological captivity of the media, the academy and education in a context of a global elite class that is riddled with perversities and corrupt behaviours [Epstein being an example of the problem]. It is not for nothing that we are warned against stumbling the little ones. KFkairosfocus
September 30, 2019
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'“argument” by assertion;.... another hilariously-pungent definition, KF ! I can think of two current, national leaders whose egregious narcissism seems to have prompted them to adopt that very 'argument by assertion', as their modus operandi.Axel
September 30, 2019
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AW, that's a certain Mr Gordon Robinson of Jamaica's Gleaner, not SC. Mind you, to say we all KNOW there is no God implies one cannot know God. Mr Carroll has not really thought through the implications of what he has asserted. KFkairosfocus
September 30, 2019
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TLH, one of the highly speculative models of our world is a limitless in the past underlying sub universe in which sub-cosmi like ours pop up and expand as fluctuations; there have been discussions here at UD. We only observe our cosmos so all of this is philosophy dressed up in Mathematics with a dusting of physics. My own basic problem is with any quasi-physical model that posits a causal-temporal, actually limitless, infinite, past. Whether the infinity is explicitly acknowledged or is left implicit (and we have had ding-dong exchanges here on it) the transfinite cannot be traversed in finite stage causally successive steps. My in a nutshell is we need to think in terms of the hyperreals (involving hyperintegers such that for some H of magnitude |H| greater than any |z| for any z in the integers, 1/H = h where h is closer to 0 than any 1/z) and see a negative H, so H+1, H+2 etc will never traverse in steps to some k finitely removed in 1-scale steps from 0. Bonus, h is an infinitesimal, which gives a solid gateway to calculus. And yes, it is more useful to think on hyper reals than reals, that's what your old high school handwaving by Math teachers was pointing to. So, the idea of a limitless actual quasi physical past is an absurdity. We can have a potentially infinite future that keeps on going without limit but not an actually completed transfinite past. Yes, if a world now is, it implies a necessary being world root that is causally independent and without beginning. Whatever candidates you care to put up, a transfinite past causal-physical succession is not credible as a candidate. But that is where a priori evolutionary materialistic scientism now seems to be driving its proponents. KFkairosfocus
September 30, 2019
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Could somebody help me. I haven't been able to get an answer to this question about Dr Carroll: In his biography it is stated that Dr. Carroll "posits that the Big Bang is not a unique occurrence as a result of all of the matter and energy in the universe originating in a singularity at the beginning of time, but rather one of many cosmic inflation events resulting from quantum fluctuations of vacuum energy in a cold de Sitter space. He claims that the universe is infinitely old but never reaches thermodynamic equilibrium as entropy increases continuously without limit due to the decreasing matter and energy density attributable to recurrent cosmic inflation. He asserts that the universe is "statistically time-symmetric," insofar as it contains equal progressions of time "both forward and backward". This obviously contradicts the recent determination of the cosmological constant. which shows that the universe is expending at an ever accelerating rate. This means that time does NOT "contain equal progressions of time "both forward and backward", but only forward. Thus leading to the "heat death first posited by Lord Kelvin in 1852. Is Dr Carroll merely "positing" some of the multiverse stuff that Dr Hossenfelder laughs at, or has he got something that a reasonable person could take seriously?TAMMIE LEE HAYNES
September 30, 2019
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“Who/what is God?” ... “Either the Church has NO CLUE about who/what God really is, or it deliberately misrepresents God’s essence in order to frighten people into becoming church members and tithing. Nothing else makes sense.”
Sean Carroll is wrong again. There is something else that does make sense. The term "Church", according to the Bible refers to all those who do know who/what God "really" is -- by definition. The part about people becoming "church" members and tithing is indeed a misrepresentation of what THE Church is, and describes the perception of what a church is according to those outside The Church. Like the blind man who doesn't have a clue what the color Blue is. (not every one in a church is in The Church, and there is no way of knowing for sure who is and who isn't, so the wheat and the tares coexist for a while, as was planned -- by the God who IS and refers to Himself as "I AM")awstar
September 30, 2019
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Here is part of an argument I have used at UD before.
If Big Bang cosmology is true then the universe had a beginning. Furthermore, if we accept the standard model of the big bang, based on Einstein’s theory of general relativity, not only did the universe have a beginning but so did space and time. Therefore, based on what we presently know that there was no time (no before) the origin of the universe. So that empirically rules out any possibility of an infinite regress. In other words, there is no evidence that the universe always existed—yet logically something must have always existed. What is that something? Leibnitz argued that there are two kinds of being: (1) contingent being and (2) necessary, or self-existent, being. Contingent beings or things (books, ink, paper, planets or people, rocks trees and poison ivy etc.) cannot exist without a cause. By contrast, a necessary being does not require a cause. Everything we observe in the universe, including the universe as a whole, appears to be contingent. However, it is logically possible that whatever it is that caused the universe exists necessarily or, in other words, is self-existent. An eternally existing (or self-existing) transcendent being, does not require any other explanation because it is the explanation. To prove this simply ask yourself the question, ‘what caused the always existing something to exist?’ The answer should be obvious to anyone who considers the question honestly. Obviously, since it has always existed, it wasn’t caused by anything else, therefore, doesn’t need to be explained by anything else. The evidence from the “big bang” for example suggests that whatever caused the universe transcends the universe. Furthermore, if it is the cause of the universe it must, in some sense, have always existed. It must be eternal. Transcendence and eternality are attributes of what theists call God. So big bang cosmology gives us two thirds of what we mean by God.
https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/michael-egnor-gets-mail-from-jerry-coyne/#comment-684472 Something which is transcendent (even if it’s in a trivial sense) is empirically non-detectable. If it’s not empirically detectable it is not “scientific,” therefore, it cannot claimed to be the basis of a “scientific worldview.” The only thing that a scientist like Sean Carroll can claim is that the universe had a beginning and scientifically we have no idea how it began. However, that doesn’t rule out other logically valid possibilities. There is nothing logically impossible about an eternally existing transcendent Creator.john_a_designer
September 30, 2019
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AW, it is an implication of evolutionary materialistic scientism. Big-S Science in thralldom to atheism dressed up in a lab coat monopolises knowledge and so there is no room for the dreaded "divine foot" in the door of what is called knowledge. But the notion that such ideologically captive "science" is "the only begetter of truth [and so, knowledge]" is an epistemological -- thus philosophical, claim. Scientism is self-referentially incoherent. It falsifies itself. Question begging founded on self-refuting arguments. Fail. KF PS: ironically, millions do not merely believe that there is a God but have sufficient of transformational encounter that we have warrant to report that we know God personally. As the OP notes, if instead so many were to be deeply delusional on this; it would bring the credibility of the human mind into serious question. Of course, that is exactly where evolutionary materialism ends up: undermining rationality itself.kairosfocus
September 30, 2019
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“Nowadays, when a more scientific worldview has triumphed and everyone knows that God doesn’t exist . . . ”
It seems to me that Sean Carroll's argument is logically flawed because it is impossible to prove something doesn't exist in the universe. So his argument has to read "everyone believes that God doesn't exist" in order to be a valid argument. And that statement is patently wrong. Surely he is perceptive enough to recognize some people believe God exists.awstar
September 30, 2019
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BR, yes, and there are many other flaws there. Sad, really, but the Dan Brown- Jesus Seminar- History Channel fashion is moving along. On historicity of Jesus of Nazareth [Jesus being anglicised from Gk where orig Heb more directly came to us as Joshua also] cf here on as was originally linked in the OP and as has been put to VM for him to address. No one has claimed that theism is synonymous to Christian faith, but instead the article replied to a challenge to that faith which implied educational and/or financial fraud by church leaders; in the context of which the issues of philosophical warrant for God and the bridge from idea of God to Christian Systematic Theology and its pivot on the gospel were central. The notion that the Christian Faith and before it Judaism were founded on Pagan myths fails the giggle test, but is common in a world of fringe thought. Far from being sloppy as thought, the NT is deservedly a foundational classic in its own right, just as an anthology of thought. The Sermon on the Mount and the wider story of Jesus and his thought, Luke's two-volume masterful history, the writings of Paul as one of the top dozen minds shaping our civilisation, alone, would secure that. The Torah and Tanakh (differently arranged in our OT) are not so easily dismissed as lies. There may be a lot of revisionism but the story of a refugee semitic family/small tribe of essentially syrian extraction becoming at first welcome refugees then reduced to slavery and leading a successful revolt and founding their own state fits the temper of the times, with enough support to be taken seriously. There is an interesting exploration on gem mining operations and origin of alphabet, tied to this. You have aptly answered on Pharaoh [name of the house used eventually for the king] and on enslavement -- which comes in many forms. No one has seriously doubted that Jews and Arabian Arabs mutually recognise one another as cousins. To this day, resemblance in language alone is instructive. Finally, one may claim to be master of the facts, sneering at mere believers, while failing to understand that facts [real and imagined], faith and reason are inextricably intertwined in the roots of our world views. And again that was linked in the OP. That said, the main focus remains, that Mr Carroll was ill informed in his captioned remark. It will be interesting to hear what our atheistical objectors now have to say about it and similar remarks by Lewontin, US NSTA and NAS, Mahner, Alex Rosenberg and others. KFkairosfocus
September 30, 2019
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vmahuna I guess your knowledge of Egypt trumps every expert. What was the title given to the king during the New Kingdom? That would be pharaoh. https://www.ancient.eu/pharaoh/ As for slavery, everyone else must be wrong as well: Slaves in Egypt were either criminals, those who could not pay their debts, or captives from foreign military campaigns. These people were considered to have forfeited their freedoms either by their individual choices or by military conquest and so were forced to endure a quality of existence far below that of free Egyptians. https://www.ancient.eu/article/933/daily-life-in-ancient-egypt/BobRyan
September 30, 2019
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How sad. Carroll is as intellectually challenged as the trolls who keep showing up here at UD. Who knows he may be one of the many sock puppets who keeps popping up on this site.john_a_designer
September 29, 2019
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Ah, Bill, it seems "argument" by assertion, ideological imposition, question-begging a prioris, accusation and the like are taking over. A sad sign indeed for our evidently declining civilisation. We need to go back to fundamentals of worldviews analysis, including the pivotal principles of right reason. KFkairosfocus
September 29, 2019
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Does Sean know assertion is not argument. How does he deal with the evidence above for Gods existence, simply deny it is really evidence?bill cole
September 29, 2019
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You foolish, foolish person, Vmahuna ! Sure, 'Take up your cross and follow me', is a great sales pitch. Certainly, attractive enough on which to found an empire, called Christendom, which was to make its adherents, voluntary and involuntary, more technologically advanced by an order of magnitude than the rest of the world. And the cream of the joke is that the congenital, worldly intelligence of the Chinese and the Indians generally tends to be more acute, imo, than that of Europeans. I believe in India you have the weird situation in which you have an often brilliant, highly-educated ruling class and many poor people having to defecate in the street, although I believe here s a progamme for building public conveniences. All the saddder in that Vedanta* was such a spiritual version of Hndusim - as well as unbelievably ancient. Religion matters ! As for your comments on Christ, they are beoynd laughable. He is the only God whose origin is outsideof space and time. The rest are earthbound demi-gods, and not omnisicient and omnipotent. So much for your dismissal of him. Here is what Einstein had to say about Jesus, when he was asked whether he accepted the historical Jesus (his existence historically documented in any case): '“- To what extent are you influenced by Christianity?" "– As a child I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene." "– Have you read Emil Ludwig’s book on Jesus?" "– Emil Ludwig’s Jesus is shallow. Jesus is too colossal for the pen of phrasemongers, however artful. No man can dispose of Christianity with a bon mot." – "You accept the historical Jesus?" '"Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.” (Einstein, as cited in Viereck 1929;' If you look at the YouTube video-clips on the Shroud of Turin, the Sudarium of Oviedo, and the video of Saint Padre Pio, below, and then tell us it's all hokum, we shall know that you are beyond help - which does sound like the most likely outcome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbgXRODiT04 *Vedanta is a philosophy taught by the Vedas, the most ancient scriptures of India. Its basic teaching is that our real nature is divine. God, the underlying reality, exists in every being. Religion is therefore a search for self-knowledge, a search for the God within. - from Wikipedia.Axel
September 29, 2019
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VM, I have to be moving for the day, but it is blatantly obvious that theism and the Judaeo-Christian, theistic, scriptural tradition are not identical, theism is wider. However, there is a very specific warrant for the Christian faith that you may find it advisable to address. It is mentioned and linked in the above. From Ac 17, AD 50, it is presented as the offer of proof to all men: Jesus of Nazareth, crucified and risen on the 3rd day "according to scripture." KFkairosfocus
September 29, 2019
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Vmahuna your supposed scholarship of this issue has been shown to be atrocious numerous times: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/swedish-mathematician-explains-why-he-sees-design-in-nature-and-became-a-christian/#comment-675205 and:
PaV April 8, 2019 at 12:00 pm Vmahuna: You must be a Darwinist because you’re ready to believe anything that confirms your worldview. Here’s a review of Freke and Gandy’s book: This is one of the worst books I have ever read. There is a legitimate wing of Gospel scholarship that looks at the Greco-Roman influence on Christianity, especially the Mystery Religions. What this book does is out and out deny the Jewish roots of Christianity and claim Jesus as a semi-mythical saviour hero in the same vain as Orpheus or Osiris. Despite the 90 pages of notes and the 7 page bibliography, this book is poorly thought out but I think the authors argue their twisted view well. They remind me of the deluded 18th and 19th century authors that tried to prove the pagan roots of Roman Catholicism. It relies on some superficial similarities between Christianity and Paganism. There are lots of things like pointing out this pagan philosopher worked miracles like raising the dead or calming winds (like Empedocles or Apollonius of Tyana) and so did Jesus. Gasp here! Of course, the general commonalities of Mediterranean culture might be an explanation but Freke and Gandy will have none of this. For them there is a direct connection. For me, according this logic Judaism and Greek paganism must be connected because the Jews had 12 tribes and the Greeks had 12 Olympian gods. Gasp here!! The authors obviously have an axe to grind. They are forever going on about those bad ‘Literalist’ Christians and how they surpressed the good, old mystery religion Christians.They conveniently gloss over the disagreements between Gnostic groups and some of the more weird (read here totally crazy) beliefs of these groups. The Nag Hammadi Library and other finds gives scholars an inside view of the Gnostics. One thing I haven’t figured out is where these ‘Literalist’ Christians originated. Why were these people convinced of the truth of the Gospels? This book acknowledges the existence of these Literalist Christians from the earliest days like Justin, Irenaeus and Tertullian but doesn’t explore its origin. This is ultimately a forgettable book. It dresses itself up as some explosive expose but it isn’t. As to the nonsense you subscribe to, look here. https://voice.dts.edu/article/was-the-virgin-birth-story-created-by-the-church-mikel-del-rosario/ Keep your nonsense to yourself. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/swedish-mathematician-explains-why-he-sees-design-in-nature-and-became-a-christian/#comment-675225
bornagain77
September 29, 2019
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Um, no. You TERRIBLY weaken the argument in favor of God by insisting that the Jehovah of the Bible IS God, and that believing in God REQUIRES the belief in the Bible. Christianity was created by the guys who flunked out of the prep class for The Mystery Religion. There is absolutely ZERO historical evidence for any noteworthy person using the name "Jesus of Nazareth" in what is now called "the 1st Century" by back construction. The existence of God NEVER required belief in the sloppiness that became The New Testament. The Old Testament is a pack of lies. Egyptians NEVER called their kings "pharaohs", and there is absolutely no mention of any "Hebrew" people coming into Egypt and then being expelled. Also, Ancient Egypt NEVER had slaves. Etc., etc., etc. The people who came to be called "Hebrews", etc., were/are in fact a VERY minor group of Arabs who lived in the area generally north of what is now Yemen. Etc., etc., etc. I could name books to read, but clearly "believers" don't want to be upset by mere facts.vmahuna
September 29, 2019
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Posted the below commentary in another discussion but, after reading this quoted text “When A More Scientific Worldview Has Triumphed” here, I just realized that the same comment may fit well within this topic too: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/sabine-hossenfelder-explains-the-problem-with-the-many-worlds-hypothesis/#comment-684499OLV
September 29, 2019
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I have never, before, seen a Zen koan composed for the purpose of high humour. I think Sean has changed sides, parodying his erstwhile colleagues. How they will react, I dread to think ! Welcome aboard, Sean !Axel
September 29, 2019
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Sean Carroll: “Nowadays, when a more scientific worldview has triumphed and everyone knows that God doesn’t exist . . . ” — really?kairosfocus
September 29, 2019
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