. . . and similar manipulative spin and mob-ocracy games masquerading as truth, news, knowledge/education, etc now clearly needs to be confronted — if we are to think straight and act soundly in good time to avoid going over the cliff as a civilisation:
Of Lemmings, marches of folly and cliffs of self-falsifying absurdity . . .
The Parable of Plato’s Cave (and the linked idea of the Overton Window):
. . . has much to teach us in a media-dominated age where manipulators keep trying to push/pull our window of acceptability through deceit, poison, accusation, polarising and more.
Especially if we ask ourselves: how does the shadow show come to be, and how is a community so manipulated that it loses contact with objective reality?
Acts 27 gives us a picture in miniature (once we realise that it was common knowledge that some seasons were dangerous for sailing in the Mediterranean basin of 2,000 years ago, but that many people can be induced to go along with those they look up to for leadership, power and expertise):
>>Ac 27:4 . . . putting out to sea from there [= Sidon] we sailed under the lee of Cyprus, because the winds were against us.5 And when we had sailed across the open sea along the coast of Cilicia and Pamphylia, we came to Myra in Lycia.6 There the centurion found a ship of Alexandria sailing for Italy and put us on board.7 We sailed slowly for a number of days and arrived with difficulty off Cnidus, and as the wind did not allow us to go farther, we sailed under the lee of Crete off Salmone.8 Coasting along it with difficulty, we came to a place called Fair Havens, near which was the city of Lasea.
9 Since much time had passed, and the voyage was now dangerous because even the Fast[a] was already over, Paul advised them,10 saying, “Sirs, I perceive that the voyage will be with injury and much loss, not only of the cargo and the ship, but also of our lives.”11 But the centurion paid more attention to the pilot and to the owner of the ship than to what Paul said.12 And because the harbor was not suitable to spend the winter in, the majority decided to put out to sea from there, on the chance that somehow they could reach Phoenix, a harbor of Crete, facing both southwest and northwest, and spend the winter there.
The Storm at Sea
13 Now when the south wind blew gently, supposing that they had obtained their purpose, they weighed anchor and sailed along Crete, close to the shore.14 But soon a tempestuous wind, called the northeaster, struck down from the land.15 And when the ship was caught and could not face the wind, we gave way to it and were driven along.16 Running under the lee of a small island called Cauda,[b] we managed with difficulty to secure the ship’s boat.17 After hoisting it up, they used supports to undergird [= frap] the ship. Then, fearing that they would run aground on the Syrtis, they lowered the gear,[c] and thus they were driven along.18 Since we were violently storm-tossed, they began the next day to jettison the cargo.19 And on the third day they threw the ship’s tackle overboard with their own hands.20 When neither sun nor stars appeared for many days, and no small tempest lay on us, all hope of our being saved was at last abandoned.
21 Since they had been without food for a long time, Paul stood up among them and said, “Men, you should have listened to me and not have set sail from Crete and incurred this injury and loss.22 Yet now I urge you to take heart, for there will be no loss of life among you, but only of the ship.23 For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship,24 and he said, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul; you must stand before Caesar. And behold, God has granted you all those who sail with you.’25 So take heart, men, for I have faith in God that it will be exactly as I have been told.26 But we must run aground on some island.”>>
Here, Mr Moneybags and his bought- and- paid- for technico manipulated the passengers and the Centurion into going along with a foolhardy voyage. That Jeremiah over there in chains with scars from three previous shipwrecks? Just ignore that half-mad idiot rejected by his own people. We are the experts and our consensus is, we can do it . . . it will only take an afternoon’s sail on a comfortable reach to go forty miles to a safe and commodious harbour. Of course, the predictable result of turning democracy into a manipulated de-mockracy, was shipwreck.
And, on many, many dimensions, that is exactly what we face today.
(BTW, I think we would all profit from reading and viewing this Melanie Philips article and video interview here.)
Our challenge is to de-spin the dominant agenda and its seven mountains/ commanding heights citadels, to come to a critical mass of prudence towards a sounder more sustainable alternative:
Oh yes, I doubt that it is a mere accident that the Limousine torched on Trump’s Inauguration day
. . . was rented for Wallnau, and that the bought and paid for “Anarchists” — a dead political movement if ever there was one — claimed to be “We the People.”
Where, it is worth the while to pause and unpack the old Soviet/Bolshevik term, agit prop.
Namely, it strictly/narrowly . . . per current dictionary definitions . . . speaks to twisting the theatre, arts, literature and the like into propaganda. However, on both the history and the inherent dynamics as work it readily extends to the mob-ocracy game, in which the streets and news media or institutions of intellectual leadership and education — notice the appeals to “consensus” on matters of controversy or where something is patently wrong with the dominant and too often domineering schools of thought . . . — are turned into a grand theatre projecting shadow shows confused for reality.
Often, such shadow shows are sponsored by governments, sometimes by powerful factions. And of course, such theatre too often becomes bloody, creating a horrific escalating spiral of chaos, confusion, retaliation and polarisation.
U/D, Feb 2 — it looks like live events are demonstrating my point:
Here is a girl being struck and pepper-sprayed at UC Berkeley for the thought crime of objecting to the riots:
(Ask yourself, what if she has a medical condition such as grand mal epilepsy or asthma or the like that could be triggered, sometimes with severe consequences? Do these rioters think or care about what fires they could be playing with?)
Likewise, people are being chased and struck to the ground by blackshirts (pardon language that pops up):
Here is some media coverage, in this case backgrounders leading up to a telephone interview with the proposed speaker whose speech event was shut down by the riot:
(I further understand her husband was beaten unconscious [which more or less implies concussion injuries] with several of his ribs being broken.)
U/D Feb 6th: The friend “pepper” sprayed during an interview also speaks out about the attack, indicating that it was the identification as My/Trump supporters that triggered the first and second attacks:
(And in case you think pepper spraying is minor, consider the implicit threat as something much more destructive up to a poison gas could easily have been used. BTW, why didn’t someone realise, assault with a potentially deadly weapon and tackle this suspect/perpetrator to the ground? ANS: People are not trained for that and by the time you observe, orient, decide and begin to react [cf. on John Boyd’s OODA Loop, here] it is over for good or ill; that is why trained security should have been right there, preferably law enforcement. It is also why a clear entry area protected by barriers with adequate separation should have been in place . . . another point of negligence by the authorities. Likewise consider how dazzling was used to initiate the second attack, which ended in mayhem: disorientation that could easily have prepared for anything from kidnapping to stabbing or shooting. If the pepper spray woman can be caught and interrogated, this would be important as she — it is likely to have been one individual — initiated the attack sequence. Given the hostile nature of the interview, perhaps it would be useful to interrogate the interviewer as possibly being complicit given what happened and what could all too easily have happened. Then, compare this sort of coverage with how the major media have treated the events at UCB last Wednesday evening, to see how street agitation and bully-boy tactics then feed into the theatre of narrative propaganda, spin tactics, gaslighting and outright brainwashing. Something truly ugly is going on.)
U/D Feb 5th: Meanwhile, we have a picture of police in riot gear inside the student union while riot-induced chaos was going on outside:
The poster of this very tellingly asks:
>>I was at UC Berkeley last night. Here is a pic I got after the speech cancellation of nearly 100 SWAT and campus police sitting inside the student union building doing NOTHING while people were getting beaten outside. WHO told them to stand down?>>
Further U/D Feb 5, pm: Notice — HT Zero Hedge, Feb 2nd — how the street theatre then gets projected by the media houses (CNN as an example, but take note of ZH’s own perspectives, too . . . ) to suit their particular agendas and narratives:
Under certain circumstances, agit prop becomes not just rioting but rebellion and guerrilla war — these days, 4th generation war [think of how the Palestinian Arab uprisings and declaratively genocidal terrorism campaigns have come to be viewed as “liberation” struggles by many across the world . . . ] — or even radical revolution.
I again point to the de-spinning framework I developed a decade ago:
Let us wake up to what is in front of us regarding not just design debates but ever so many issues and agendas across our civilisation. Plato’s grim warning from nearly 2360 years ago, is again all too apt:
>>
Ath [in The Laws, Bk X 2,350+ ya]. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical “material” elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ –> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . .
[Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-
[ –> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics and law: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by “winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . ” cf a video on Plato’s parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]
These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,
[ –> Evolutionary materialism — having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT — leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for “OUGHT” is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in “spin”) . . . ]
and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ –> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality “naturally” leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ –> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, “naturally” tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush — as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them [–> nihilistic will to power not the spirit of justice and lawfulness].
>>
To be forewarned is — if we are wise — to be forearmed. END
Comments
Eyewitness X speaks: https://uncommondescent.com/atheism/an-eyewitness-report-on-the-44th-annual-march-for-life/
--> Note the vid clip, starting with when does a new human life begin and what the significance of the commandment, you shall do no murder, is.
PS: Exod 20:
Exodus 20English Standard Version (ESV)
The Ten Commandments
20 And God spoke all these words, saying,
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3 [1st:] “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
4 [2nd:] “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands[b] of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 [3rd:] “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
8 [4th:] “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 [5th, proper:] “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
13 [6th:] “You shall not murder.[c]
14 [7th:] “You shall not commit adultery.
15 [8th:] “You shall not steal.
16 [9th:] “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 [10th:] “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”
18 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid[d] and trembled, and they stood far off 19 and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.” 20 Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.” 21 The people stood far off, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was.
kairosfocus
February 2, 2017
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rvb8
we live in a country that still considers care and compassion for its citizens, a virtue
My own country has a woeful record on accepting Middle Eastern refugees,
You have care and compassion and a record of refusing refugees. Well, it's a good enough place for you and your friends to want to live there.
The important thing is that you skipped over my question about your own professed belief system. I'm left to guess that you either don't actually believe it, or you're embarrassed by it.Silver Asiatic
February 2, 2017
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RVB8 (et al):
WJM has taken time to reply point by point here: https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/rvb8-admits-to-being-a-useful-idiot/
I believe you need to pay close attention to his points of correction and to his overall point that the astroturf agit prop street theatre tactics that have been in use for decades create movements of the deluded who join in marches of folly on the assumption that the "consensus" they see represents reality.
DV, a bit later, I will headline a report on the 2017 March for Life, which will show by contrast the sustained work -- 44th annual -- of a well-informed, lawful and essentially sound but often despised civil rights movement (as in, right to LIFE for the ultimate voiceless, posterity in the womb)of conscience and reformation.
I clip WJM on a series of points that though implied above and brought out in the videos [have you followed the link to the Melanie Philips interview? watchhed the Plato's Cave parable animation?], are perhaps not sufficiently explained in my remarks above in the OP and its extension in the thread:
In [reacting to] KF’s expose on agit-prop history and techniques, rvb8 attempts to draw an [immoral?] equivalence between what the progressive left is doing in taking to the streets in “protest”, and KF’s stated views and groups that advocate for those views. He asks:
You see, I fail to see why the Soviet agit-prop is wrong, and your own right. I know your ‘right’ is self evident, but not to me, and not to millions like me; what in your opinion is to be done with mine, and others dissent?
Let’s draw the distinction clear; agit-prop is the process of removing rational discourse and civil debate from the equation and conditioning a populace psychologically to react en masse in intimidating, destructive and violent ways in order to achieve an agenda the population is largely ignorant of.Anyone who uses this technique is by definition attempting to avoid rational debate and intimidate or physically remove the opposition and avoid a fair debate and a fair election. Even as an atheistic evolutionist, surely rvb8 understands that the above, as defined, is wrong. If not, we simply don’t have grounds for a meaningful debate.
rvb8 then says:
For me, as an enlightened atheist, I say all power to you, your ID position is basically dead, so continue with your agit-prop, for all it’s worth; little!
To be taken seriously, rvb8 needs to show where ID advocates have used agit-prop techniques comparable (in principle if not scope) to what the progressives are using now when they (progressive politicians and public agitators) use polar opposite characterizations when they describe action X by Obama, and then virtually the same action X by Trump. There is no rational reason to characterize the travel restriction under Obama as good and necessary and reasonable, and then then a slightly broader temp travel restriction on the same 7 countries under Trump as fascistic, xenophobic, islamophobic, racist and unconstitutional. Obama endorsed the protests against the ban even though the list of countries and travel restrictions originated in his administration (and in other actions, total bans against Iraq and later, Cuba). Reason dictates that if one supported it under Obama, one should support it under Trump if there has been no appreciable decline in world terrorism or in the political nature of those countries.
This is classic agit-prop exposed for all to see: it’s not about the actual executive order, it’s about an entirely different agenda – weaponizing millions of people into an intimidating, threatening mob by employing over-the-top, aggressive and dehumanizing terms to characterize Trump regardless of what he does, even if it is the same thing Obama did and the same thing they supported a few years prior. Obama comes out and, incredibly, endorses protests against the very temporary immigration ban his administration created. If the protesters were operating from informed, rational consideration, how could they justify calling this temporary ban against these countries a “muslim ban”, when 86% of all muslims worldwide are not even affected by it?
More on agit-prop: anyone that shows any support for Trump whatsoever becomes the target of progressive intimidation tactics. Performers who were going to be involved at the inauguration were intimated into backing out. Trump could not even show up at one of his rallies because of the threat of violence. Clinton operatives incited violence at his rallies. There were several plans by left-wing organizations to disrupt many Trump rallies and the Republican Convention itself. Covert operatives were inserted into Trump events to interrupt and disrupt as he spoke. Are there any activities like this that are comparable from the ID camp or from Trump?
My own focus is of course far wider than Mr Trump and the shenanigans that have been let loose to create havoc and confusion in the aftermath of his surprise election as President of the USA. But, this is indeed a live case study.
When it comes to the ugly turnabout, immoral equivalency projection that tries to taint the ID movement as an agit-prop operation, the truth is obvious to those not swept up in the sort of hysteria and polarising indoctrrrination in defiance of truth and responsible duties of care that mark real agit prop. For, the heart of the design theory movement is a scientific argument backed up by literally trillions of directly observed examples: functionally specific complex organisation and associated information [FSCO/I] is a strong, readily recognised, quantifiable sign of intelligently directed configuration as credible material cause of entities showing FSCO/I. To overturn this, simply provide credible counter examples. Where also, the configuration space search challenge provides analytical context as to why that result is so, namely, search challenge on sol system or =observed cosmos scale. 500 - 1,00+ bits marks a threshold where it is simply not plausible that an entity exhibiting FSCO/I could have come about by blind chance and/or mechanical necessity.
This is objected to, but not because it is empirically or analytically fatally flawed, never mind the many attempts to create a false impression to that effect. When confronting such a claim, simply demand to see several credible examples of directly observed origin of FSCO/I where there is not implicit loading of intelligently directed configuration. Where, the issue is to FIND islands of function, not to climb hills of improved function in such an island. Where also, search for a golden search is exponentially harder than direct search as searches are subsets and the set of subsets for a given set of cardinality N is of order 2^N.
RVB8, you have been directly challenged with this many times, for many months. You and ilk have never given a cogent reply on the merits of fact, logic and sound analysis.
Your resort to turnabout false accusation is therefore a case of the big lie tactic. (This, we will discuss later in this reference discussion thread, DV.)
So, while this thread is not directly on ID, the attempt to drag in a false, turnabout accusation to taint the ID movement shows yet again how the agit prop game works: delegitimise and demonise the targeted scapegoat groups, by erecting strawman caricatures, soaking in ad hominems and igniting to cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere.
You have failed, failed in an instructive way that illustrates how those caught up in agit prop movements are swept up in shadow shows confused for reality and used to polarise and drive the attack agenda.
KFkairosfocus
February 2, 2017
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Orwell, politics and the English Language:
http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/
>>In our time, political speech and writing are largely the defence of the indefensible. Things like the continuance of British rule in India, the Russian purges and deportations, the dropping of the atom bombs on Japan, can indeed be defended, but only by arguments which are too brutal for most people to face, and which do not square with the professed aims of the political parties. Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness. Defenceless villages are bombarded from the air, the inhabitants driven out into the countryside, the cattle machine-gunned, the huts set on fire with incendiary bullets: this is called pacification. Millions of peasants are robbed of their farms and sent trudging along the roads with no more than they can carry: this is called transfer of population or rectification of frontiers. People are imprisoned for years without trial, or shot in the back of the neck or sent to die of scurvy in Arctic lumber camps: this is called elimination of unreliable elements. Such phraseology is needed if one wants to name things without calling up mental pictures of them . . . .
Political language — and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists — is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.>>
--> To lie, is to speak with disregard to truth in hope that what one says or suggests will be taken as true; that is, calculated deception.
KFkairosfocus
February 1, 2017
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RVB8, this thread is not about Mr Trump's or Mr Obama's immigration policy, a secondary thread has spoken to that. I suggest you take up the issues there; other than that I note here that settlement-/civilisation jihad are real and are discussed by the Islamists in captured documents. Jihad by bands, aka Islamist terrorism, is actually the oldest form going back to Mohammed's raids on Meccan merchant caravans plying trade routes in Arabia. This thread, has far more serious work in hand, addressing agit prop. DV, on the morrow, a bit on cultural marxism. KFkairosfocus
February 1, 2017
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SA,
I know this regularly comes as a surprise to certain parts of US society, but I feel after reading your comments at #58 that you should be informed of a rude truth: Migrants from parts of the world undergoing revolutions, religious wars and confrontations, are actually pleased just to get out of those conflicts. Althought they may indeed have the US as their first choice, they happily settle down in any part of the world that is ruled by LAW! Alas Mr Trump is attacking that particular US attraction!
You must get out of your peculiar world view that everyone is on a Bee-line to the States. I'm not, my friends aren't, none of my relatives are, mainly because we live in a country that still considers care and compassion for its citizens, a virtue; I believe in the States you consider this State supported care and compassion, as Communism.
The millions, yes I know millions, who are trying as we speak to leave Africa, and the Middle East to get to Europe, don't have the US as their first hope, that remains Europe. And despite all of the European backlash, Europe still offers these individuals considerably more hope than the US.
The persecuted Rohingya Muslims of Burma are trying to get to Australia via Malaysia, where their fellow Muslims despise them. I believe these people couldn't point to the US on a world map, they do however know where Australia is.
My own country has a woeful record on accepting Middle Eastern refugees, and I and friends constantly try to raise this issue. Unfortunately we have a leader Bill English, who like Trump is an avowed anti-facts populist.rvb8
February 1, 2017
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In his post @ 49 mike1962 cited, Federal immigration law Section 1182(f) which states: “Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate”.
According to Andrew C. McCarthy:
“Section 1182(f) plainly and sweepingly authorizes the president to issue temporary bans on the entry of classes of aliens for national-security purposes. This is precisely what President Trump has done. In fact, in doing so, he expressly cites Section 1182(f), and his executive order tracks the language of the statute (finding the entry of aliens from these countries at this time “would be detrimental to the interests of the United States”).”
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444371/donald-trump-executive-order-ban-entry-seven-muslim-majority-countries-legal
I said above @ 50, “that the only question in this debate over Trump’s executive order (EO) is whether it is constitutional (it is) or whether it is lawful (it is). He is the new President he has the right and authority to put his own policies in effect. That is what elections are for…”
Who is Andrew McCarthy?
According to his bio, “Andrew C. McCarthy III is a former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. He led the 1995 terrorism prosecution against Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman and eleven others. The defendants were convicted of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and of planning a series of attacks against New York City landmarks. He also contributed to the prosecutions of terrorists who bombed U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.”
Who is rvb8?
Who is more knowledgeable when it comes to the U.S. Constitution, U.S. Federal law or the war on terrorism? Clearly rvb8 has no clue what he(?) is talking about.
Personally, I am not here to have mindless and pointless debates. Rvb8 has yet to begin his “argument” with a factually true premise. McCarthy begins with the U.S. Constitution and the U.S. Code both of which have specific and factual things to say about the authority of the U.S. President and immigration.john_a_designer
February 1, 2017
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rvb8, the way you write in general, and your reply to me in particular, reminds me of these nincompoop semi-drunk "sovereign citizens" I converse with from time to time. You fulfill a sort of "village idiot" function around here and I'm glad your here. Thanks for the reply. Simply not worth a response beyond that.mike1962
February 1, 2017
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The "gaslighting" tactic as a facet of agit-prop is also relevant:
http://townhall.com/columnists/timothydaughtry/2017/01/04/gaslighting-and-the-lefts-war-on-reality-n2267154
>>gaslighting is a far more insidious tactic than political spin. Spin merely attempts to shift the interpretation of a real situation by presenting it in a different light. Gaslighting presents a completely false alternative to reality and is intended to erode the confidence of the target in his or her own perception.
Imagine two people standing outside in a severe rainstorm.
SPIN: “You say this is a downpour? It looks more like a heavy sprinkle to me.”
GASLIGHTING: “You say this is a downpour? What are you talking about? It’s sunny and pleasant. Are you feeling OK? You’re acting a little strange.”
Because it presents a false picture of reality, two elements are especially important for gaslighting to succeed. First, those doing the gaslighting must display confidence and audacity in pushing their view of reality and must persevere boldly in the face of evidence that contradicts their claim. Second, the target must be psychologically isolated and denied validation by others who see the same reality. The left’s dominance in the cultural institutions of education, news, and entertainment has given them both elements.
Consider the video by the Family Policy Institute of Washington in which Seattle University students were asked if there’s a difference between men and women. Instead of answering, “You’re kidding me, right?” these students actually took the interviewer’s question seriously and, even worse, they struggled to answer it. Some went so far as to parrot the far left’s narrative that the distinction between male and female is merely a social construct imposed on people by society and that it has no real significance otherwise.
Has news about who has the babies not reached Seattle? Or have those students been so browbeaten by the gaslighting of their leftist professors and the leftist culture on campus that they are hesitant to admit publicly to what their own eyes, their own bodies, and their common sense tell them?
That is the power of gaslighting, and the left’s institutions have been audacious in using it against those who question their agenda.
In the left’s alternate reality, the police are threats to law and order and rioters are victims of the system. Mainstream Americans who supported Trump are ridiculed as “anti-immigrant” even though we made an immigrant our next First Lady. The belief that refugees should be carefully vetted in order to keep more terrorists from exploiting our generosity is attacked as “xenophobic.” And leftists casually use both “homophobic” and “Islamophobic” to attack their opponents without even a moment’s reflection on Islam’s position on homosexuality.
After all, in gaslighting, it is the effect of words on the intended target that counts and not the truthfulness or logical consistency of those words. If the target is isolated, demoralized, and fearful of opposing the left’s agenda, the tactic has worked. >>
--> Think of how "gender" as a social construct has been used to push out the sex stamped into every cell of our bodies. Ponder how "marriage" has been perverted, how what sexual intercourse is or even what is is have all been manipulated in shadow shows
--> If you disagree with the PC agenda's ever more bizarre twists and turns, or -- worse -- are a supporter of the historic Judaeo-Christian values and vision of Christendom you are suddenly a fascist or a nazi to be sucker punched with a fist loaded with a steel wrench, or to be chased down and clubbed unconscious by a mob . . . to the gleeful rejoicing of those who put up cartoons of nazis being punched
--> Then, following Stalin's agit prop, nazi has been transmuted into a "right wing" ideology; never mind the obvious starting with that defunct party's name: National Socialist German Labour Party
--> But those are just some of the metastases, the motherlode has been the dehumanisation of our posterity in the womb, in support of the ongoing holocaust of posterity in the womb. 800+ millions since the 1970's and mounting up at a million per WEEK
For shame!
It is high time we woke up from shadow shows and refused to go along with the intimidation that seeks to redefine reality and morality in pursuit of agendas that if unchecked will ruin our civilisation.
It is time for reformation rooted in repentance.
And yes, they have been trying to make the very word "sin" disappear from our consciousness too.
Let us wake up.
KFkairosfocus
February 1, 2017
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rvb8
I would greatly prefer it if you wrote from an evolutionary perspective instead of from a theist one.
In other words, why is it a problem for evolution that some people cannot come to the United States?
They want to come to America, but America is a bad place because we elected Donald Trump. So, they're upset that they cannot come here and be ruled by the dictator Trump. He must be a very mean man.
In other countries, people are dying (literally) to leave. Here, they're trying everything they can to come in.
Even some Hollywood stars actually said they were going to leave, but somehow they think it's better living under the tyrant Trump than going to a place of socialist freedom and happiness - like North Korea. They didn't even want to go to Canada - but probably the Canadians didn't want them.Silver Asiatic
February 1, 2017
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Well, Pindi - it takes two to tango. I think there should be a lot around here for you to disagree with.
Or why not tell us why you're an atheist? Do you think all the theists here should give up belief in God and also become atheist? If so (or not), why?Silver Asiatic
February 1, 2017
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F/N: A warning from 2000 years ago, complete with bought and paid for -- astroturfed (as in fake grassroots) -- riot:
Ac 19:21 Now after these events Paul resolved in the Spirit to pass through Macedonia and Achaia and go to Jerusalem, saying, “After I have been there, I must also see Rome.” 22 And having sent into Macedonia two of his helpers, Timothy and Erastus, he himself stayed in Asia for a while.
23 About that time there arose no little disturbance concerning the Way. 24 For a man named Demetrius, a silversmith, who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought no little business to the craftsmen. 25 These he gathered together, with the workmen in similar trades, and said,
“Men, you know that from this business we have our wealth. 26 And you see and hear that not only in Ephesus but in almost all of Asia this Paul has persuaded and turned away a great many people, saying that gods made with hands are not gods. 27 And there is danger not only that this trade of ours may come into disrepute but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis may be counted as nothing, and that she may even be deposed from her magnificence, she whom all Asia and the world worship.”
28 When they heard this they were enraged and were crying out, “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” 29 So the city was filled with the confusion, and they rushed together into the theater, dragging with them Gaius and Aristarchus, Macedonians who were Paul's companions in travel. 30 But when Paul wished to go in among the crowd, the disciples would not let him. 31 And even some of the Asiarchs,[e] who were friends of his, sent to him and were urging him not to venture into the theater. 32 Now some cried out one thing, some another, for the assembly was in confusion, and most of them did not know why they had come together. 33 Some of the crowd prompted Alexander, whom the Jews had put forward. And Alexander, motioning with his hand, wanted to make a defense to the crowd. 34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, for about two hours they all cried out with one voice, “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”
35 And when the town clerk had quieted the crowd, he said, “Men of Ephesus, who is there who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is temple keeper of the great Artemis, and of the sacred stone that fell from the sky?[f] 36 Seeing then that these things cannot be denied, you ought to be quiet and do nothing rash. 37 For you have brought these men here who are neither sacrilegious nor blasphemers of our goddess. 38 If therefore Demetrius and the craftsmen with him have a complaint against anyone, the courts are open, and there are proconsuls. Let them bring charges against one another. 39 But if you seek anything further,[g] it shall be settled in the regular assembly. 40 For we really are in danger of being charged with rioting today, since there is no cause that we can give to justify this commotion.” 41 And when he had said these things, he dismissed the assembly. [ESV]
The lessons of history were bought with blood and tears. If we ignore them today, we doom ourselves to pay much the same coin over and over again.
Notice the Asiarchs -- who ran the Temple among other duties and the Town Clerk in action. The first may have differed with Paul, but were on friendly terms with him. The latter laid down the law on riotous assembly, pointing out that there are proper means for torts if such happened.
I am struck by the sharp differences to what we are seeing and how ever so many voices are failing to uphold community order.
Big warning signs.
KFkairosfocus
February 1, 2017
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RVB8, I suggest that you are beginning to side track this discussion; I note that I do not like Mr Trump esp after his grabbing remark, but that some respect and acceptance of the democratic mandate he has won is appropriate -- aka peaceful transfer of power per results of an election, or a trend will be fed that you will not want to see play out. Playing with fire. I further note that with the USA you are dealing with a federal republic. Contrary to the delegitimisation narrative -- part of the dirty agit prop now playing out -- the USA does not have a single election, but fifty in parallel, and the electoral college assures that the one chosen as president is broadly acceptable across the states. That is actually a stabilising factor. It is also quite obvious that radical islam and jihad by bands are running amok, so that the undoubted executive power to act to secure borders is an appropriate response, never mind the patently twisted media narratives and whatever mis-steps are happening. But it seems that there is a death wish that is playing with the fire of undermining stabilising supports to constitutional democracy under rule of law. I suspect, on history going back to the Peloponnesian war, that the consequences of such destabilisation will not be pretty or beneficial at all, if unchecked. Agit prop is utterly destructive and ruinous. It is high time for a reality check, and to step back before things really go over the cliff. KF
PS: when "protesters" start to torch vehicles, injuring drivers, and mobs start to run down and criminally assault and batter victims, the proper term to use is RIOT. I only mention the ongoing agenda of sustaining the ongoing worst holocaust in history, 800+ millions.kairosfocus
February 1, 2017
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mike1962,
I'm flabbergasted, and j_a_d, you say to mike, "well said"!?
Firstly mike1962, Trump was not 'hired', he was elected, and by the peculiarities of your 'electoral college', not even popularly elected; whatever, he was elected.
Secondly, he was not elected (hired), to 'protect' the American people, he was elected to, 'defend the Constitution of the US', did you not learn this in elementary civics classes.
You see the idea of the framers was that by strictly defending the Constitution, and Bill of Rights the government would then be directly defending the people; difficult notion to grasp I know, but makes perfect sense to me, why do you find it so difficult to grasp?
And judging by his weird reading of that document, he is at present ignoring it willfully. The protestors you loathe, are actually expressing a notion far nearer the intentions of the authors of that wonderful piece of clear thinking; Trump is at present plastering IT, with muck.rvb8
January 31, 2017
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F/N: Street stabbing rampage in LA:
http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20170131/lapd-officers-fatally-shoot-man-after-stabbing-rampage-near-cnn-hollywood
>>A man wielding a butcher knife stabbed three people along Sunset Boulevard and inside a Jack in the Box restaurant in Hollywood before police shot and killed him Tuesday afternoon, Los Angeles Police Department officials said.
The attacker, who went on a rampage along Sunset about 2 p.m., also tried to enter a nearby coffee shop, but a customer held its glass door shut, witnesses reported.
Korbyn Gomez, a student at the L.A. Film School near Sunset and Ivar Avenue, said he watched as the attacker approached with a ‘big ... bloody knife.”
“He was 15 feet away from me,” Gomez said. “I got away. You could tell he was going to give it to anyone who was near.”
Police responding to an assault-with-a-deadly-weapon call confronted the suspect inside the Jack in the Box, “at which time an (officer-involved shooting) occurred,” said LAPD Officer Sal Ramirez. “The suspect went down and was taken into custody.”>>
I doubt this is a knife jihad attack (as recently was happening in Israel and that the man was reportedly black is probably not relevant either, but this shows just how lethal being close to rioters can be even when they do not have firearms.
And please don't try oh we need knife control.
FYI, kitchen knives are not going away and even a car leaf spring can be turned into a truly lethal Kukri-style knife using common tools and techniques.
KF
PS: My earlier call for creation of a civilian marshal corps is looking more and more sensible. But I have little confidence that common sense will prevail in today's world of dirty faction politics.kairosfocus
January 31, 2017
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PS: Let me clip from 21 above, Wm S Lindh, on 4th gen war:
Characteristics such as decentralization and initiative carry over from the Third to the Fourth Generation, but in other respects the Fourth Generation marks the most radical change since the Peace of Westphalia in 1648. In Fourth Generation war, the state loses its monopoly on war. All over the world, state militaries find themselves fighting non-state opponents such as al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the FARC. Almost everywhere, the state is losing.
Fourth Generation war is also marked by a return to a world of cultures, not merely states, in conflict. We now find ourselves facing the Christian West’s oldest and most steadfast opponent, Islam. After about three centuries on the strategic defensive, following the failure of the second Turkish siege of Vienna in 1683, Islam has resumed the strategic offensive, expanding outward in every direction. In Third [--> 4th] Generation war, invasion by immigration can be at least as dangerous as invasion by a state army.
Nor is Fourth Generation warfare merely something we import, as we did on 9/11. At its core lies a universal crisis of legitimacy of the state, and that crisis means many countries will evolve Fourth Generation war on their soil. America, with a closed political system (regardless of which party wins, the Establishment remains in power and nothing really changes) and a poisonous ideology of “multiculturalism,” is a prime candidate for the home-grown variety of Fourth Generation war – which is by far the most dangerous kind.
Where does the war in Iraq fit in this framework?
I suggest that the war we have seen thus far is merely a powder train leading to the magazine. The magazine is Fourth Generation war by a wide variety of Islamic non-state actors, directed at America and Americans (and local governments friendly to America) everywhere. The longer America occupies Iraq, the greater the chance that the magazine will explode. If it does, God help us all.
kairosfocus
January 31, 2017
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RVB8 & Pindi et al:
30+ years ago, I lived through a mini civil war and its aftermath, largely triggered through Commi agit-prop, on a marxist-dominated uni campus. I had to deal with agitators, front groups, useful idiots, slander games and ruthless counter-moves. I saw street tactics far more up close and personal than I wish on anyone. The process also cost me an aunt, murdered in her shop by a gunman moved by slander and calls for vigilantism -- I can never forget my rage when the same front group agitator went back on radio to blandly deny responsibility for murder . . . that taught me a lot. So did observing Grenada as a case of successful radical subversion and coup molly-coddled by the usual run of pols, journo's and educators until it blew up in a bloody murderous coup that triggered an invasion. When you sit across from a man on a death list who is alive because of the invasion that you saw roundly despised in the same circles that cossetted murderous radicals year after year and hear his story dovetail with your own experiences and observations, it changes you.
(And along the way, due to my lifelong interest in history, I studied Hitler and context. Then, there is a lot of deeper history and thought that used to be taught but is of course now despised by those who imagine they know better than what was bought at bitter price of blood and tears over 3000 years of history of our civilisation and its roots in Jerusalem, Athens and Rome, with Germanic injections.)
In short, I know the fire that is being played with in our civilisation far more up close and personal than you want to know.
Far too much of what I am seeing today rings all sorts of warning bells. Our civilisation is heading over a cliff and there are forces and folk out there playing with fire that they do not begin to understand.
Agit prop was pioneered by the bolsheviks, with innovations added by the National Socialist German Labour Party [I deliberately use a 1930's translation] and Mao et al, multiplied by ruthless Western marketing tactics.
Let me again clip my summary from the OP:
it is worth the while to pause and unpack the old Soviet/Bolshevik term, agit prop.
Namely, it strictly/narrowly . . . per current dictionary definitions . . . speaks to twisting the theatre, arts, literature and the like into propaganda. However, on both the history and the inherent dynamics as work it readily extends to the mob-ocracy game, in which the streets and news media or institutions of intellectual leadership and education — notice the appeals to “consensus” on matters of controversy or where something is patently wrong with the dominant and too often domineering schools of thought . . . — are turned into a grand theatre projecting shadow shows confused for reality.
Often, such shadow shows are sponsored by governments, sometimes by powerful factions. And of course, such theatre too often becomes bloody, creating a horrific escalating spiral of chaos, confusion, retaliation and polarisation.
Under certain circumstances, if becomes not just rioting but rebellion and guerilla war — these days, 4th generation war [think of how the Palestinian Arab uprisings and declaratively genocidal terrorism campaigns have come to be viewed as “liberation” struggles by many across the world . . . ] — or even radical revolution.
Agit prop, linked front group and issues street theatre shading over into fifth column subversion and with fourth gen war lurking in the wings backed by rising nuke powers cossetted by feckless -- or outright cynically traitorous pols -- are collectively exactly what I am highly confident that I am seeing. I am seeing a global geostrategic meltdown developing, with particular foci on the triangle across the ME from Sinai to the Bosporus, and along the Nile Corridor ranging into targetting Africa's strategic minerals as an unfortunately open continental target. I am seeing -- first saw it online 01- 09-11 -- a 100 year Islamist global subjugation plan now in progress, I am seeing settlement-/civilisation subversion jihad in action, I am seeing a West that is willfully blind. I am seeing the implications of evolutionary materialism warned against by Plato playing out on the ground. I am seeing an untoward generation that is deeply implicated in the ongoing holocaust of 800+ million unborn children, mounting up at another million or so every WEEK.
I am seeing the corrosion of the supports needed to stabilise the precious but inherently unstable framework of small- c, small- d constitutionally stabilised democratic self-government.
In the case of the USA, I am seeing factions willing to burn down that framework in the context where they narrowly lost what they obviously imagined was the final tipping point election. And, who is to deny them that, the last two election cycles put in power a trained agit prop operator who has utterly corrupted through false colour of law, the number one stabilising factor for civilisation, marriage.
So, there is a lot for the progressives to answer for.
And, don't even try to plaster the right wing nazi slander on me. Just the blunder of allowing Stalin's propaganda to shape political thought eighty years later speaks volumes about how much we have failed to understand Fascism and its associated states and ideologies. I point out, Mussolini was an Internationalist Socialist turned Nationalist in the context of the onset of WW I, and Hitler's Party -- for cause -- bore the name: National Socialist German Labour Party. Fascism is at root an ideology of statist political messianism, coming from the Left in an era when even the conservatives thought socialist-marxist views were fundamentally correct; which is part of why they struck the sort of deals they did with Fascists, Nazis and Bolsheviks alike and in the post depression, post WW2 era moved to socialist influenced welfare states. That consensus collapsed across the 1980's as the great stagflation broke the consensus then the closing act of the cold war . . . de facto WW 3 . . . played out to a financially ruinous victory as we passed into the 1990's. Then, starting with the Watermelon environmentalists and involving Frankfurt School Cultural Marxist strategies [critical studies driven politically correct astroturf movements fed by shadowy financiers and identity group agit prop are diagnostic signs], internationalist socialism has begun to rise again and has struck deals with the Islamists as it obviously sees the West as what is wrong with our world. So, they let the civilisation-/ settlement jihadists in the door and want to keep them coming in under whatever excuse. Refusing to recognise jihad by bands for what it is.
I again clip my in a nutshell on that:
FASCISM: At heart, it is the notion that in a day of “unprecedented” crisis that targets a large — locally dominant or pivotally influential — perceived victim group or class or religious or racial/national body, a super-man figure emerges to rescue the victims; one who is beyond ordinary human powers and limits (including those of morality and just law). A political messiah who stands as champion for the identity group to save it, defending it from the various scapegoated out-groups who are held to be to blame for the victimisation of the in-group. That super-man political messiah then seizes power and is widely recognised as a man of “destiny.” In an atmosphere of hysteria, slander and propagandistic deception that is usually multiplied by chaos and violence or at least riotous assemblies in the streets baying for blood, the power blocs, political, legal, military, corporate, religious, etc then align with him, giving him effectively unlimited power in the face of a crisis. We have now reached the threshold of tyranny. And because of the perceived unprecedented crisis, that super-man “people’s champion” figure is cheered on and supported in taking extraordinary measures; measures that sacrifice liberty and justice for the sake of the promised utopian order. And so reigns of terror and aggressive wars naturally emerge.
Where what happens on the streets etc is likely to be like:
[blackshirts] at the airports etc sucker-clubbing those they mob . . . or loading a hidden wrench up the sleeve to crack the skull of who they sucker-punch [or . . . ], to be online playing at cyber-trolling and stalking, too. Or, maybe, too busy enabling the black-shirts. [BTW, all of these and worse are known or suspected street agitator tactics; the danger zone for an attacker with a possibly concealed arm’s-length body contact weapon like a knife or a club or knuckleduster or a length of metal pipe or a bottle is 20+ feet. Keep away from such blackshirts unless prepared to use lethal force on a 1/2 second response time, AND to back yourself up in Court from King’s Attorneys and false witnesses out for your neck or life’s savings or career. This is now low grade civil war. And, on what was done to people in Pizza Parlors and bake shops, do not speak to them off mike beyond a standard script. Advisable, I need to call my supervisor or the like. This is now deadly serious, why on God’s earth did the USA elect a trained “Community Organiser” as President, this is his legacy.]
In my homeland there is a folk saying, fire deh 'pon mus-mus [= mouse] tail, but him tink seh a cool breeze deh deh.
Fatal misunderstanding of fire.
KFkairosfocus
January 31, 2017
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Well said Mike1962. Let me add that the only question in this debate over Trump’s executive order (EO) is whether it is constitutional (it is) or whether it is lawful (it is). He is the new President he has the right and authority to put his own policies in effect. That is what elections are for. As Barack Obama said after he won his first term for President in 2008, "Elections have consequences – and at the end of the day, I won."
We do not create laws in our country by mob rule. People in the U.S. do have the right to petition the government and peacefully demonstrate. But if they want to change the laws they need to do so through Congress who are elected to represent the people. If they are unhappy with Trump's EO they can petition congress to change the law. That’s how it is done. (Good luck getting the law changed with the Republicans in control of both houses of Congress.)
What is of concern is why the mainstream media is using factually inaccurate reporting (propaganda) in an attempt to delegitimize a lawfully elected President and actively incite angry demonstrations in the streets and airports etc., which have already lead to violence against Trump supporters. That is not a responsible use of their freedom, nor does it serve the greater good of the country.john_a_designer
January 31, 2017
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rvb8:Trump is at present plainly using the Constituion of the US as something that can be molded, or ignored, depending upon how he feels at any given moment...I’ll give you a hint it rhymes with Shmuslim. Is this a religious test of citizenship? Is this constitutional? Should US citizens be worried about Trump’s cavalier approach to the use of the Constitution?
Nothing cavalier about it. He was hired to do a job, to protect the American people first, and he's doing it legally. 86% of muslims worldwide are not affected by the temporary 90 day freeze on immigration from the Seven Countries while Trump makes sure our immigrant vetting is strong enough. This is sensible given there is a high degree of radical Islamist terrorists in these countries who have vowed to kill Americans, take over the USA, and use the holes in the immigration vetting process to get terrorists inside. Expect more countries to be added to the list soon.
8 U.S. Code § 1182 - Inadmissible aliens
(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.
At any rate, nothing un-Constitutional about any of this. Carter did it. Obama did it. Bizarre that anyone would take exception to this. I, for one, am glad to see Trump is fulfilling his campaign promise to put American safety first. He is not the president of Syria. He is the president of the USA.mike1962
January 31, 2017
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Excellent quote, J-Mac, amply demonstrated by the partisan press and the rioters!
I'm also an immigrant to the U.S. and I favor faster legal immigration--something that the Democrats failed to fix in the eight years when they were in power. Maybe the Republicans will fix it now. Or not. We can only hope.
-QQuerius
January 31, 2017
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"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success."
- "War Propaganda", in volume 1, chapter 6 of Mein Kampf (1925), by Adolf HitlerJ-Mac
January 31, 2017
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'Q'
I'm not a US citizen, but I do understand the right of protest. Many times as a student in the 80s I would see abunch of my fellows marching and protesting, and would join, only to later find out what the protest was about; I did this many times, and strangely, not once was the protest by the students I joined counter to my own sensibilities, both then and now.
Your last sentence beginning, 'Supposedly..', is extremely sad to read, and makes me question whether you understand what 'Democracy' even means.
There is no 'honeymoon' period where an elected leader is given the benefit of the doubt, at least not in my democracy, this appears to be a peculiarly American concept; where elected officials are off limits until a certain period has passed by; how absurd. Democratically elected officials are on the backfoot from day one, and if your democracy demands respect for these officials for a certain period of time, may I respectfully suggest your concept of democracy falls woefully short of the ideal; to hold elected officials accoutable for their policies and decisions.
Trump is at present plainly using the Constituion of the US as something that can be molded, or ignored, depending upon how he feels at any given moment.
Seven countries, besides the fact that all of these countries are emotional defalt countries, (Libya, and Iran, stand out), can anyone else, in the ID community see a connecting factor amongst this group of countries?
I'll give you a hint it rhymes with Shmuslim. Is this a religious test of citizenship? Is this constitutional? Should US citizens be worried about Trump's cavalier approach to the use of the Constitution?
And worse, he, Trump, is using really effective agit/prop.rvb8
January 31, 2017
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Sorta reminds me of the drunk cowboy who loses at poker, and then draws his gun and accuses the winners of cheating.
There are some people, powerful people, who won't tolerate a peaceful transition of power. They whip gullible idiots into a frenzy of hatred and violence.
So, the cowboy draws his gun. "If I can't be happy, nobody can be happy," he slurs. Taking pictures, the reporter for the Tombstone Epitaph eggs him on, telling the cowboy that he really was cheated, The schoolteacher loudly demands that the cowboy be made sheriff of the town to stop the violence. Then, the reporter and the schoolteacher start lighting fires in the town, and the cowboy starts firing wildly into the confused crowd.
Me? I don't hold much hope for politics, but I'd rather have my say with ballots rather than bullets.
The people who want to escalate political disagreement into physical violence are traitors to the democratic process regardless of their views! They have learned nothing from history. They would love a totalitarian government over a pile of smoking rubble as long as they can be in charge.
Supposedly, we have elected representatives to convey the will of the people, and we don't need to assemble massive mobs for every decision. What a concept!
-QQuerius
January 31, 2017
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j_a_d,
the op is about the effectiveness, or otherwise of street protest, and its reporting by the media, Kairos explains;
'where manipulators keep trying to push/pull our window of acceptability through deceipt, poison, accusation, polarising, and more.'
I'm not a troll, I was simply astounded at the accusation of supposed bias,(by the left orientated media I suppose), to manipulate; who exactly? A vulnerable ill informed public? Perhaps that public should become involved, educated on subjects that effect it.
At present Trump has declared seven Muslim countries to be persona non-grata, in the US. Do you accept this policy? If you do, you are ill-informed.
None of these seven countries have produced jihadis that have in any way been effective in harming US interests, or citizens.
However, the citizens of Saudi-Arabia, the U.A.E, and Egypt and their associated jihadis have killed thousands of US citizens and remain off the Trump list; some have been as nasty as to suggest that this is because Trump has property investnents in these basket case countries.
Kairos talks about agit/prop, and fails to point out the use by the Commander in Chief, of all his Executive power to agit/prop himself, and his absurd predjudices.
Pindi's 'echo-chamber' observation is a sound criticism, indeed agit/prop works best within echo-chambers, albeit in ones considerably larger, and attracting far more contributors than this particular echo-chamber.rvb8
January 31, 2017
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an enlightened atheist
There is no such thing. There is no such thing as an atheist at all. There are only bags of meat making noises.
Andrewasauber
January 31, 2017
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Trolls and the drive-by interlocutors who show up here never provide anything that is required for a substantive debate because apparently they don’t understand the need to start with factually grounded or even plausibly true premises. Personally I think it is pointless to argue with someone over their uniformed (and sometimes vacuous) personal opinions.john_a_designer
January 31, 2017
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Kairos,
one line cought me, out of the hundreds;
'speaks to twisting the theatre, arts, literature and the like into propoganda.'
I know you are referring to old Soviet, 'Agitation/Propoganda', but I have to ask; "What is your preferred message?"
Is it a Christian one, that denies evolution, is it one that denies the right to a safe abortion for women? Is it one where Donald Trump's immigration plan is sensible?
You see, I fail to see why the Soviet agit-prop is wrong, and your own right. I know your 'right' is self evident, but not to me, and not to millions like me; what in your opinion is to be done with mine, and others dissent?
For me, as an enlightened atheist, I say all power to you, your ID position is basically dead, so continue with your agit-prop, for all it's worth; little!
As Pindi rightly points out, agit-prop works best with an audience, not within the limited arena of ten or twelve posters.rvb8
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KF @34 - no. Serious comment. I used to enjoy the debates. Now there are no more debates here.Pindi
January 31, 2017
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03:49 PM
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JAD @ 37: The silence is deafening.Truth Will Set You Free
January 31, 2017
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02:43 PM
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JAD cf 33 above, and the OP, esp the straight or spin grid. All part of the grand shadow show game. KF
PS: When mobs start chasing and attacking people giving them concussions we are dealing with riots and potential lynch mobs not protests.kairosfocus
