. . . and similar manipulative spin and mob-ocracy games masquerading as truth, news, knowledge/education, etc now clearly needs to be confronted — if we are to think straight and act soundly in good time to avoid going over the cliff as a civilisation:
Of Lemmings, marches of folly and cliffs of self-falsifying absurdity . . .
The Parable of Plato’s Cave (and the linked idea of the Overton Window):
. . . has much to teach us in a media-dominated age where manipulators keep trying to push/pull our window of acceptability through deceit, poison, accusation, polarising and more.
Especially if we ask ourselves: how does the shadow show come to be, and how is a community so manipulated that it loses contact with objective reality?
Acts 27 gives us a picture in miniature (once we realise that it was common knowledge that some seasons were dangerous for sailing in the Mediterranean basin of 2,000 years ago, but that many people can be induced to go along with those they look up to for leadership, power and expertise):
>>Ac 27:4 . . . putting out to sea from there [= Sidon] we sailed under the lee of Cyprus, because the winds were against us.5 And when we had sailed across the open sea along the coast of Cilicia and Pamphylia, we came to Myra in Lycia.6 There the centurion found a ship of Alexandria sailing for Italy and put us on board.7 We sailed slowly for a number of days and arrived with difficulty off Cnidus, and as the wind did not allow us to go farther, we sailed under the lee of Crete off Salmone.8 Coasting along it with difficulty, we came to a place called Fair Havens, near which was the city of Lasea.
9 Since much time had passed, and the voyage was now dangerous because even the Fast[a] was already over, Paul advised them,10 saying, “Sirs, I perceive that the voyage will be with injury and much loss, not only of the cargo and the ship, but also of our lives.”11 But the centurion paid more attention to the pilot and to the owner of the ship than to what Paul said.12 And because the harbor was not suitable to spend the winter in, the majority decided to put out to sea from there, on the chance that somehow they could reach Phoenix, a harbor of Crete, facing both southwest and northwest, and spend the winter there.
The Storm at Sea
13 Now when the south wind blew gently, supposing that they had obtained their purpose, they weighed anchor and sailed along Crete, close to the shore.14 But soon a tempestuous wind, called the northeaster, struck down from the land.15 And when the ship was caught and could not face the wind, we gave way to it and were driven along.16 Running under the lee of a small island called Cauda,[b] we managed with difficulty to secure the ship’s boat.17 After hoisting it up, they used supports to undergird [= frap] the ship. Then, fearing that they would run aground on the Syrtis, they lowered the gear,[c] and thus they were driven along.18 Since we were violently storm-tossed, they began the next day to jettison the cargo.19 And on the third day they threw the ship’s tackle overboard with their own hands.20 When neither sun nor stars appeared for many days, and no small tempest lay on us, all hope of our being saved was at last abandoned.
21 Since they had been without food for a long time, Paul stood up among them and said, “Men, you should have listened to me and not have set sail from Crete and incurred this injury and loss.22 Yet now I urge you to take heart, for there will be no loss of life among you, but only of the ship.23 For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship,24 and he said, ‘Do not be afraid, Paul; you must stand before Caesar. And behold, God has granted you all those who sail with you.’25 So take heart, men, for I have faith in God that it will be exactly as I have been told.26 But we must run aground on some island.”>>
Here, Mr Moneybags and his bought- and- paid- for technico manipulated the passengers and the Centurion into going along with a foolhardy voyage. That Jeremiah over there in chains with scars from three previous shipwrecks? Just ignore that half-mad idiot rejected by his own people. We are the experts and our consensus is, we can do it . . . it will only take an afternoon’s sail on a comfortable reach to go forty miles to a safe and commodious harbour. Of course, the predictable result of turning democracy into a manipulated de-mockracy, was shipwreck.
And, on many, many dimensions, that is exactly what we face today.
(BTW, I think we would all profit from reading and viewing this Melanie Philips article and video interview here.)
Our challenge is to de-spin the dominant agenda and its seven mountains/ commanding heights citadels, to come to a critical mass of prudence towards a sounder more sustainable alternative:
Oh yes, I doubt that it is a mere accident that the Limousine torched on Trump’s Inauguration day
. . . was rented for Wallnau, and that the bought and paid for “Anarchists” — a dead political movement if ever there was one — claimed to be “We the People.”
Where, it is worth the while to pause and unpack the old Soviet/Bolshevik term, agit prop.
Namely, it strictly/narrowly . . . per current dictionary definitions . . . speaks to twisting the theatre, arts, literature and the like into propaganda. However, on both the history and the inherent dynamics as work it readily extends to the mob-ocracy game, in which the streets and news media or institutions of intellectual leadership and education — notice the appeals to “consensus” on matters of controversy or where something is patently wrong with the dominant and too often domineering schools of thought . . . — are turned into a grand theatre projecting shadow shows confused for reality.
Often, such shadow shows are sponsored by governments, sometimes by powerful factions. And of course, such theatre too often becomes bloody, creating a horrific escalating spiral of chaos, confusion, retaliation and polarisation.
U/D, Feb 2 — it looks like live events are demonstrating my point:
Here is a girl being struck and pepper-sprayed at UC Berkeley for the thought crime of objecting to the riots:
(Ask yourself, what if she has a medical condition such as grand mal epilepsy or asthma or the like that could be triggered, sometimes with severe consequences? Do these rioters think or care about what fires they could be playing with?)
Likewise, people are being chased and struck to the ground by blackshirts (pardon language that pops up):
Here is some media coverage, in this case backgrounders leading up to a telephone interview with the proposed speaker whose speech event was shut down by the riot:
(I further understand her husband was beaten unconscious [which more or less implies concussion injuries] with several of his ribs being broken.)
U/D Feb 6th: The friend “pepper” sprayed during an interview also speaks out about the attack, indicating that it was the identification as My/Trump supporters that triggered the first and second attacks:
(And in case you think pepper spraying is minor, consider the implicit threat as something much more destructive up to a poison gas could easily have been used. BTW, why didn’t someone realise, assault with a potentially deadly weapon and tackle this suspect/perpetrator to the ground? ANS: People are not trained for that and by the time you observe, orient, decide and begin to react [cf. on John Boyd’s OODA Loop, here] it is over for good or ill; that is why trained security should have been right there, preferably law enforcement. It is also why a clear entry area protected by barriers with adequate separation should have been in place . . . another point of negligence by the authorities. Likewise consider how dazzling was used to initiate the second attack, which ended in mayhem: disorientation that could easily have prepared for anything from kidnapping to stabbing or shooting. If the pepper spray woman can be caught and interrogated, this would be important as she — it is likely to have been one individual — initiated the attack sequence. Given the hostile nature of the interview, perhaps it would be useful to interrogate the interviewer as possibly being complicit given what happened and what could all too easily have happened. Then, compare this sort of coverage with how the major media have treated the events at UCB last Wednesday evening, to see how street agitation and bully-boy tactics then feed into the theatre of narrative propaganda, spin tactics, gaslighting and outright brainwashing. Something truly ugly is going on.)
U/D Feb 5th: Meanwhile, we have a picture of police in riot gear inside the student union while riot-induced chaos was going on outside:
The poster of this very tellingly asks:
>>I was at UC Berkeley last night. Here is a pic I got after the speech cancellation of nearly 100 SWAT and campus police sitting inside the student union building doing NOTHING while people were getting beaten outside. WHO told them to stand down?>>
Further U/D Feb 5, pm: Notice — HT Zero Hedge, Feb 2nd — how the street theatre then gets projected by the media houses (CNN as an example, but take note of ZH’s own perspectives, too . . . ) to suit their particular agendas and narratives:
Under certain circumstances, agit prop becomes not just rioting but rebellion and guerrilla war — these days, 4th generation war [think of how the Palestinian Arab uprisings and declaratively genocidal terrorism campaigns have come to be viewed as “liberation” struggles by many across the world . . . ] — or even radical revolution.
I again point to the de-spinning framework I developed a decade ago:
Let us wake up to what is in front of us regarding not just design debates but ever so many issues and agendas across our civilisation. Plato’s grim warning from nearly 2360 years ago, is again all too apt:
>>
Ath [in The Laws, Bk X 2,350+ ya]. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical “material” elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ –> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . .
[Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-
[ –> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics and law: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by “winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . ” cf a video on Plato’s parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]
These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,
[ –> Evolutionary materialism — having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT — leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for “OUGHT” is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in “spin”) . . . ]
and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ –> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality “naturally” leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ –> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, “naturally” tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush — as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them [–> nihilistic will to power not the spirit of justice and lawfulness].
>>
To be forewarned is — if we are wise — to be forearmed. END
Comments
KF:
PS: As you have tried to shoot at me personally implying hypocrisy,...
For the record, I was not the one who said that someone was "too short for the ride". Where I come from, that is not considered to be civil discourse.
AJ, I have already said enough to substantiate the context in which pedo networks and other perversions will be part of a morally deeply challenged culture of governance,...
And I have not disputed this. But we were not talking hypotheticals and generalities. We were talking about specifics that involve real people. Nothing you have said justifies the smearing of people's reputations with absolutely no solid evidence.
Wasn't it you that insist that people have a right to life, liberty and innocent reputation? Were you referring to everyone, or only yourself?
Likewise, my auntie was murdered by a vigilante stirred up by accusations, and jumping to conclusions then pulling a gun. If you cannot see how that is compatible with concern about the destructive nature of accusations that are malicious and unfounded [no reason to see there is smoke much less fire], then that is not my fault.
I sincerely simpathize with the death of your aunt. But, evidenced by your own words, her killer was incited by misinformation and misdirected emotions and hatred, not supported by reality and solid evidence. Do you honestly not see the parallels between your personal experience and what happened with the owners and staff of Comet Pizza?Armand Jacks
March 7, 2017
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AJ, I have already said enough to substantiate the context in which pedo networks and other perversions will be part of a morally deeply challenged culture of governance, and that there will often be a pattern of SMICE driven manipulation, intimidation and extortion. if you cannot bring yourself to see how symbols and coded words can fit into that picture, that will simply stand as record. I suggest that agit-prop depends for its effect on being in control of the dominant relevant media, which in these days is most definitely with the progressivists. Cases that fit the agenda with far less evidence have received and in fact have been receiving wall to wall coverage and breathless speculation etc; that which does not fit the narrative is marginalised, and the pattern we see is marginalisation. BTW, that is right there in the parable of Plato's Cave. Marginalised media and groups can indulge slander and polarisation but they are simply incapable of driving the dominant media narrative on their own. In addition, the relevant agitation is there on the streets for all to see, it is the black shirts, it is the PC campus culture run amok, it is the demand for toeing the party-line and virtue signalling, it is in the career busting and more that we are seeing, it is in the classic projective turnabout tactic that blames the victim as the one who is at fault or at least as at fault, it is in the sustained attempt to undermine peaceful transfer of power after legitimate election that we are seeing. This last is directly, extremely worrying as it leads directly to the recourse of civil war. Pulling back to get the wider picture across the whole plain, we are playing with utterly dangerous, dirty fire here as a civilisation. KF
PS: As you have tried to shoot at me personally implying hypocrisy, I note that I took time to show that there is general reason to expect pedo networks and to point to ugly smoke, then I repeatedly called for investigation of the dirty fire underneath; investigations and eventual court cases in responsible jurisdictions are not witch hunts. For specific example, GWG, reasonably, could have been tried or at least initially investigated. [In my view, he should have been cleared at once from a cross check with his physician -- who courageously wrote in protest in the newspaper on learning of the fate of his patient.] But being told on the ship heading to where martial law was in force that he was in effect going to be kangaroo courted and being refused the testimony of his physician which would have blown up the key point of the case that he was suspiciously absent from vestry meetings, is a travesty that led to judicial murder. (That transport to where a lower standard of evidence would be used, is another sign that something was wrong; he should have been tried in the capital city under normal courts, which would have brought his doctor out as pivotal witness -- not to mention, he got up from a sick bed at his sister's house to go to the Governor, who arrested him and packed him off to a kangaroo court.) Likewise, my auntie was murdered by a vigilante stirred up by accusations, and jumping to conclusions then pulling a gun. If you cannot see how that is compatible with concern about the destructive nature of accusations that are malicious and unfounded [no reason to see there is smoke much less fire], then that is not my fault. And if you cannot see how inappropriate your attempted immoral equivalency comparisons are, that too is not my fault.kairosfocus
March 7, 2017
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KF:
AJ, the tangent continues.
But, to be fair, the tangent only continues because you keep responding. And another but, it is not a tangent. Your OP is about agit-prop tactics. Are you suggesting that the attacks against Comet Pizza can't possibly be agit-prop tactics?
Have you read the two summaries I linked?
Yes.
Do you appreciate why I expect that a pedophilia network will exist, alongside all the other networked perversions (some overt, some covert)?
No.
That, pedo is actually, for example, the historically typical form of male homosexuality — which often propagates through abuse of vulnerable boys? Hence, corrupters of boys as a classic description and the case of Zeus reflecting this thence the naming of the Galiliean moons?
What does this have to do with pizza? Besides, did I tell you that I am homosexual? Are you suggesting that I am a pedophile? Because if you are, you can expect to hear from my lawyer.
Do you now recognise the difference between merely having a triangle-based logo or a butterfly-based one and the specific forms used by pedo networks?
No, I don't. It concerns me that you do.
Have you seen the onward linked specific animated line art image I mentioned? The former advocacy for pedo hosted in certain progressivist sites that was recently scrubbed in context of the brew up over Yiannopoulous?
No I haven't. But I do notice that you have an unhealthy obsession with pedophilia.
As in, it is inappropriate to dismiss ugly smoke on grounds that there is no undeniable proof of fire?
You have provided hundreds of words and inuendo, but I don't see anything resembling smoke with regard to this pizza joint. They used triangles in their sign, as do hundreds of other pizza joints. They are mentioned in emails, as are hundreds of other pizza joints. Neither you nor WM have provided any specifics with respect to pizzagate that can be examined.
I have never said that pedophilia does not exist. Or that it isn't reprehensible. What I have a serious problem with is people making accusations, assertions, suggestions, of pedophilia against people when there is no solid evidence. These rumours have been known to ruin careers and lives. And have resulted in suicides and murders. The fact that this doesn't concern you speaks volumes.
You have often mentioned relatives that have been killed due to unfounded accusations against them. And I agree that this is terrible. But I don't see the same level of caution, concern and abhorrence from you with regard to unfounded accusations against the owners and staff of Comet Pizza. Sadly, that does not speak well in your favour.Armand Jacks
March 7, 2017
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AJ, the tangent continues. Have you read the two summaries I linked? Do you appreciate why I expect that a pedophilia network will exist, alongside all the other networked perversions (some overt, some covert)? That, pedo is actually, for example, the historically typical form of male homosexuality -- which often propagates through abuse of vulnerable boys? Hence, corrupters of boys as a classic description and the case of Zeus reflecting this thence the naming of the Galiliean moons? [Cf also, the recent brew-up over Yiannopoulous as to his experience of such initiation at 13 and its impact on his life as a relevant case in point.) Do you now recognise the difference between merely having a triangle-based logo or a butterfly-based one and the specific forms used by pedo networks? Similarly for artwork and for coded words? Have you seen the onward linked specific animated line art image I mentioned? The former advocacy for pedo hosted in certain progressivist sites that was recently scrubbed in context of the brew up over Yiannopoulous? And more? Why, I therefore have pointed to ugly smoke indicating dirty fire to be more stringently investigated? (Notice, the force of this consistent imagery?) As in, it is inappropriate to dismiss ugly smoke on grounds that there is no undeniable proof of fire? The ugly smoke is there, it points to fire, and this is longstanding in the case of the USA, cf the extremely troubling Franklin Bank-boy's town etc scandal going back to the 1980's - 90's. The roots of the smoke need to be probed as part of a much wider cleansing of our governance culture, across our civilisation -- and especially so given the SMICE honey trap issue. Beyond this, I request that this thread be allowed to re-focus on its principal focal matter. I have no desire to create any thread here for rehashing the above, the wider issue of agit-prop feeding a culturally dominant media shadow show and destructive power agenda is properly focal as how the major threat is playing out. At most pedo and other perversions and networks are relevant to this as manifesting how SMICE honeytrap tactics and cultural marxist so-called critical studies agendas are used to carry identity politics, intimidation, manipulation and extortion that creates artificially weakened objections. I also point out that our civilisation's thinking and conscience are fatally indicted through the impact of the abortion holocaust of 800+ millions that mounts up under false colour of law at a million more per week, on Guttmacher figures and a simple calculation. This is a generation utterly perverse and reprobate in many quarters, insistently headed for ruin by march of folly. It has no credibility to address any significant, morally challenged issue, absent a definite large scale repentance and reformation. Under these circumstances, for credibility we look for a remnant, not the dominant narrative -- and yes, that is Nook from 1936 in an astonishingly apt essay I just learned of a few days past. And yes, too, I definitely mean that the dominant narratives are almost automatically suspect. KFkairosfocus
March 7, 2017
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KF:
If you so lightly dismiss symbols, signs and codes, you are not tall enough for this ride.
I have not disparaged your intelligence. Please refrain from using this rude tactic.
I agree. Symbols can be very powerfull. The swastika, the acronym KKK, the cross, the Star of David. But a symbol without strong supporting evidence means very little.
Taking the leap from a triangle in a pizza joint brand to a pedophile ring, without strong supporting evidence, defies logic. Especially considering that a slice of pizza closely resembles a triangle. Just a quick google search finds hundreds of pizza restaurants that employ the triangle in their logo.
Again, I don't want to derail your OP, but if you would be willing to start another thread to discuss this, I would certainly participate.Armand Jacks
March 7, 2017
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AJ, this thread is on the whole about agit prop and media shadow shows. The exchanges show that the SMICE- honey trap, we got pics of you with hands in the cookie jar stratagem is also relevant as if enough of the elite have to watch how they can be hurt or destroyed by a strategic media leak, that may readily explain artificially weak opposition to some destructive pushes that I have noticed for a very long time. For that, the case of a what, 11 year old locker-room, grab the groupies tape that suddenly became the media narrative on Mr Trump speaks volumes, especially when much worse issues hardly stirred a whisper. There is ugly smoke, pointing to dirty fire. And, it points further to how deep is the trouble our civilisation is in. KF
PS: If you so lightly dismiss symbols, signs and codes, you are not tall enough for this ride. Indeed, you are part of the enabling, sorry to say. I suggest you look again at the specific type of double triangles etc and the patterns that for me culminated in the asterix- marks- the- spot gif line art animation of a boy subjected to something that makes him lose bladder control. The ugly smoke is there and points to dirty fire.
PPS: Remember too the vast difference between burden of proof to put you away in Her Majesty's Hotel and the burden anyone bears who puts himself forward for major offices of trust. One of the surest roads to ruin is to put inner rings of scoundrels -- as C S Lewis famously discussed -- in positions of grave trust. And it is patent that that is the blunder our civilisation has embarked on, for a full generation. The Baby Boomers are proving to be the ruin of our civilisation, rather like the game of musical chairs played in Paris until Hitler's Panzers swept it all away. And yes, I deliberately echo the wake-up call in Alistair Horne's To Lose a Battle. The lessons of history were bought with blood and tears, if we neglect, dismiss or ignore them, we doom ourselves to pay the same coin over and over again. That is written into my name, and it is the obvious reason why, after Breaker Morant paid the price to cover up Kitchener's de facto no prisoners order, Australia never again allowed its soldiers to be tried under British military tribunals. In 1943, bet on the White Rose students, not the august officials. And BTW, buy prison futures, I am confident, the trials that will put a lot of people away for cause are coming -- after the SMICE blackmail collapses and the shadow shows fail in cold light of day. I only hope we won't go over the cliff first, that's why I keep saying let us back away NOW -- by definition a cliff edge is prone to collapse.kairosfocus
March 7, 2017
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It's hard to disprove wild accusations. Trump has accused Obama of wiretapping him. This has been denied by Obama and the FBI. Trump and no doubt the extreme right news sources he relies on, maintain its true. How should that story be discredited? And why should we discredit crazy theories?
I think the Trump administration is a front for an international paedophile ring. Can someone prove me wrong?Pindi
March 7, 2017
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WM:
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not the evidence available is enough to warrant investigation by authorities.
This is something that we agree on.
I have no capacity or desire to prove anything to anyone here, and certainly to to coopt KF’s thread further or impose on Mr. Arrington’s forum for this kind of content.
I agree that I don't want to cause a distraction from KF's OP. But, as I mentioned, I think that pizzagate is a good example of the agit-prop process that I would like to see discussed further. Possibly on a dedicated thread.
However, one final thing – you have yet to reveal your source for the supposed “discrediting” of the pizzagate claims. I’m still interested in reading that. Thanks!
The same sources that you have used. The internet. Every piece of evidence that I have looked into has quickly unravelled on even a cursory examination. But, again, this is a discussion best left for a dedicated thread. If you are willing to post one, just let me know where and when and I will join the discussion.Armand Jacks
March 7, 2017
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Armand Jacks,
If that is your view after a serious look at the evidence, then I don't think any further exchange on the matter is necessary. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether or not the evidence available is enough to warrant investigation by authorities. I have no capacity or desire to prove anything to anyone here, and certainly to to coopt KF's thread further or impose on Mr. Arrington's forum for this kind of content. I think we've discussed as much as needed.
However, one final thing - you have yet to reveal your source for the supposed "discrediting" of the pizzagate claims. I'm still interested in reading that. Thanks!William J Murray
March 7, 2017
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WM:
If the comments were made in such appropriate contexts, then no one would be suspicious; however, the terminology used is, factually, FBI-recognized as pedophile code terminology and they are used in ways that make virtually no sense given a regular reading but, interpreted via the pedo code, make perfect if very dusturbing sense.
I have read the emails and they talk about going out for pizza, fundraisers, etc. They are totally innocuous to all those who do not see conspiracies everywhere. Maybe if you could provide some concrete examples rather than simply making assertions, we could discuss this.
However, the emails don’t exist in a vacuum; an enormous amount of additional evidence has been gathered and archived at places like VOAT and on YouTube by a virtual army of citizen investigators, which includes a vast amount of pictures, documents, relationships, comments and data that all paint a very disturbing picture. To my knowleddge no authority whatsoever has officially, publicly investigated the matter.
I have seen much of this evidence as well. A picture of the purported owner wearing a shirt with I ??L'Enfants on it. The problem with that is that it is actually the owner of a completely different restaurant. A very popular restaurant named L'Enfants. A room supposedly used to confine and abuse children. However, the picture happens to be of a walk in fridge. One that could not possibly fit in the pizza joint. The tunnels between basements. Basements that the pizza joint does not have.
KF:
WJM, also included are pedophile symbols, the double triangle, butterfly hearts etc are KNOWN recognised pedo symbols.
Other companies with triangle or butterfly logos; CAT, Citgo, Delta, Google Play, Toblerone, Quantas, Bass beer, AOL, Adobe, MSN, CBC, Dollywood, etc. In fact, one of the most popular tattoo that women choose is a butterfly. Surely you are not suggesting that these women are part of, or supporting, pedophilia? A symbol is not evidence unless it is backed up my concrete evidence. None of which exists in this case.
this thread as you know is not about pedo networks and things that have all been tested in courts of law beyond responsible doubt; though there are enough cases that have come out across time to be troubling indeed.
It is mainly about the agit prop and linked media shadow shows.
I suggest that the media and social media hype around pizzagate falls directly in the scope of your OP, in that it is an excellent example of directed agit-prop that raises suspicions without any supporting evidence.Armand Jacks
March 7, 2017
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TA,
this thread as you know is not about pedo networks and things that have all been tested in courts of law beyond responsible doubt; though there are enough cases that have come out across time to be troubling indeed.
It is mainly about the agit prop and linked media shadow shows.
Before I go anywhere else, I want to call the thread back to focus and balance.
There is a grave issue on the table that needs to be faced squarely, not distracted from.
In that context, sexual perversion linked corruption and SMICE in high places came up through WJM's remark on what he is actively involved with, apparently an international counter-network. In answer to evidence, please scroll upthread and click on two linked, documented summaries.
I also suggest on long history, networks of corruption are historically commonplace, a context in which I pointed to the double significance of the Galilean moons of Jupiter. Nero, I pointed you to, but did not note that it is said that of the first 16 Roman Emperors, 15 were involved in homosexual affairs in an era where this mainly meant corruption of boys/youth.
Rom 1 -- a devastating indictment -- was not written in a vacuum.
In general, we find a pattern of sexual abuses and perversions in and around high places across history, so we are entitled to presume such networks exist in ALL major capital cities, much as we know the oldest "profession" exists and has clients in the same cities.
In the case of DC, there are cases across time multiplied by the Franklin Bank case, indicating a decades long network, not something new. In that context the sort of things we see emerging around Epstein, Weiner, Hastert, Frank and his partner (who IIRC apparently ran a same sex prostitution ring from a shared apartment), and others points to confirming the expectation.
The shops and restaurants recently challenged have clearly used symbols, images and code references that are telling . . . piece-a is an obvious aural allusion, hot dog is obvious visually and the snacks theme is there. With the onward links I have seen -- I assume a line drawing gets out of the child porn law issue -- such troubling signs definitely point to asterisk- marks- the- spot (notice the in your face symbolic games) buggery of boys, with hints that what is done is painful enough that bladder control is lost by the victimised boys. (I really don't know what the reality of that is -- and I don't want to know, but it must be demonically ugly indeed.)
When it comes to various individuals -- I absolutely decline to specifically identify or focus on just a few particular personalities, as that would be unfair -- what I first see is a longstanding pattern of extremely troubling art work that puts up orange warning flags [I here specifically go back to crucifixes in urine, art displays of men photographed with whips in strange places and the like . . . something has to be very rotten for that to be put up in public].
That goes back what, 30 years?
Likewise, I see telltale code words, themes and symbols today.
I think the pattern is enough to suggest that the general culture of governance is liable to be riddled with sexual, financial ideological, and agit-prop forms of corruption, likely involving SMICE tactics.
Nor would I confine this to any one city, country or institution.
Our civilisation is in trouble, we need to stop being in denial and we need to begin to clean out the foul, rotten swamp by carrying out serious investigations on what we have instead of pretending there is no dirty fire under the ugly smoke.
KFkairosfocus
March 7, 2017
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KF
Do you have any actual evidence of the existence of a paedophile ring associated with either the Podesta brothers or the pizza shop in question.
If so, can you please lay it out.
If not, please admit that you have none.
You do know what evidence means, don't you?
You know, something that you could actually present to a court. Do you have something in that line?timothya
March 7, 2017
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TA, I note to you again, "A pedo ring in the USA’s capital would cross party and institutional lines, it would also span the continent and likely would cross oceans too. I would be looking at Thailand and the other notorious centres." Recall, Hastert and other cases. With the Podesta brothers, there are very troubling indicators including artwork that has given me pause. The restaurants etc are definitely associated with very questionable symbols, and are caught up in leaks of emails tied to Weiner; who was involved in sexting a 15 year old about in effect taking her virginity. That gives clear pedo context. I have already pointed to the other intersecting concerns including the SMICE issue. Any DC pedo ring -- network I think is better language -- would go far beyond any one party. My thought is, it is an international nest of interacting perversions, addictions, compromising information, implicit extortion, blackmail and intimidation that we face, leading to a spiral to the bottom. And that is why I take cases in the UK, Netherlands, Canada, and Norway as relevant. So also, pointers to cases in other parties and institutions including the churches, schools, medical practice and more. There is already a cloud of ugly smoke, underneath there is a dirty fire that needs to be exposed and quenched decisively. And if that discredits a generation of our global elites so be it. We are facing a widespread de-moralisation of our civilisation, driven by a perfect storm of corrupting factors. Don't think I have forgotten the 800+ million ghosts crying out about our mass blood guilt in all of this. I point to Suetonius on Nero as a warning on the fire we are playing with here. Then, bring to bear the agit prop, media shadow show picture and you will understand my pessimism and fight to find hope. KFkairosfocus
March 7, 2017
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WJM:
"I have a policy not to engage with trolls, which is why I won’t be interacting with you further."
So, that would be a no, you do not have any actual evidence that a paedophile ring ever existed in the Democratic National Committee.
OK, thanks. Onlookers, please note.timothya
March 7, 2017
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WJM, also included are pedophile symbols, the double triangle, butterfly hearts etc are KNOWN recognised pedo symbols. I know for a fact that a lot of questionable groups delight in using code words and esoteric symbols to mislead the public while giving cues to those in the know that they are there, exercising power to act as they will. (Have we forgotten Orwell's 1984?) For me, the breaking point was when I found a link from one of these joints to a site for some sort of band that included a gif line drawing animation of a bent over, naked boy that made it absolutely clear what the sexual target zone was, with in effect bulls-eye imagery. Multiply by the rash of known cases and there are things there that need to be probed. This nest of rottenness needs to be rooted out. Hastert went down over pages, Clinton was involved with an intern [and has had serious complainants challenging him], Savile is exposed -- after 30 years. Epstein's Lolita express and island are big red flags. Rotherham is not just grooming but refusal to deal with signs that something serious is going on. Where, for me, there always lurk the SMICE issue and the known practice of honey traps/ swallows and ravens used to set up compromising tapes and pictures. But all of this is only one facet, we see clear signs of agit-prop and media manipulation. It is now clear that many major media houses have abandoned sound principles and are now agit-prop houses; we must now scan for balancing inputs and make up our own minds. So, the straight vs spin grid in the OP is now vital. And, most troubling, democratic transition of power is now clearly being undermined in pursuit of perceived advantage. Those who do that should NEVER be trusted with power or influence. KF
PS: while we should not feed the trolls, we can make examples of them, for the sake of Nock's remnant: https://mises.org/library/isaiahs-jobkairosfocus
March 7, 2017
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TA, I explicitly quoted and linked Col Kratman on what works in dealing with riot turned insurrection. I then warned: "This is the fire we are playing with. God, have mercy on us." Elsewhere in this thread, I have repeatedly pointed out that agit-prop feeding destructive media narratives -- as I know through personal experiences described above -- is a manifestation of 4th gen war, and that in a world of nukes and other WMD's we cannot play games that could spin utterly out of control. Do you think I was joking when I pointed out the implications of low-recoil long range highly accurate cartridges such as the 6.5 mm family? When, I pointed out that the black shirts are now using less lethal weapons in riots? Do you not think that the current deliberate and sustained undermining of peaceful transition of power on legitimate election is a very, very bad sign? I think we had better realise that our civilisation has foolishly marched to the crumbling edge of a cliff and that we need to pull back. Now, not later. KF
PS: A pedo ring in the USA's capital would cross party and institutional lines, it would also span the continent and likely would cross oceans too. I would be looking at Thailand and the other notorious centres.kairosfocus
March 7, 2017
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TA: I have a policy not to engage with trolls, which is why I won't be interacting with you further.William J Murray
March 7, 2017
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WJM @228:
Do you have any evidence that a paedophile ring ever existed in the Democratic National Committee? You know what I mean, actual, material evidence? Not just the opinions of Alex Jones and the not-sewer Breitbart.
It would be terrible if you might be misleading the Famous Onlookers. Can you give us a clue what we should believe?timothya
March 7, 2017
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KF @213:
Which are your words, and which are quoted. It appears that you are describing how to carry out a police massacre. Is that your intention?timothya
March 6, 2017
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Armand Jacks @227,
I admit that me using the word “proven” was ill advised. I should have said “discredited”.
Okay than, can you tell who or what source provided information that brought you to the conclusion that it has been "discredited"? I would like to check it out.
The entire conspiracy rests on emails that talk about going out for pizza and other nonsense.
While the Wikileaks emails generated the huge interest thousans of people have now taken in the subject, those emails are now only a very tiny portion of the amount of evidence that has been gathered indicating a large-scale pedophile ring in Washington, DC, which includes hundreds of very disturbing pictures and comments from dozens of social media account of those involved, and with factual information about the art and music preferences of many of the players involved.
It is a pizza joint after all. Including a triangle in the logo? It is a pizza joint after all. Mentioning the word “sauce”? It is a pizza joint after all.
If the comments were made in such appropriate contexts, then no one would be suspicious; however, the terminology used is, factually, FBI-recognized as pedophile code terminology and they are used in ways that make virtually no sense given a regular reading but, interpreted via the pedo code, make perfect if very dusturbing sense.
By themselves, though, the Wikileaks emails can be interpreted as rather strange but isolated communications. People who know each other say all kinds of strange things outsiders don't understand.
However, the emails don't exist in a vacuum; an enormous amount of additional evidence has been gathered and archived at places like VOAT and on YouTube by a virtual army of citizen investigators, which includes a vast amount of pictures, documents, relationships, comments and data that all paint a very disturbing picture. To my knowleddge no authority whatsoever has officially, publicly investigated the matter.
Which brings us back to your sources that have "discredited" pizzagate; I follow it rather closely and have investigated it myself, and I would be very interested in knowing if there is something I missed.
As I said before, I would prefer it to not be true, and I hope everyday someone investigates it conclusively.
My only point is that there should be consequences for people who spread unsubstantiated rumours that harm innocent people.
I agree totally, but that concern must be balanced with legitimate concerns that a pedophile ring exists in Washington, DC (and beyond). From where I sit, there is a huge amount of very disturbing evidence that has accumulated over decades that points to this, of which "Pizzagate" is just the latest manifestation. It at the very least warrants someone looking into it in an official capacity (which, according to some sources, is actually going on and is the reason there have been so many related arrests recently).William J Murray
March 6, 2017
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WM@224, I admit that me using the word "proven" was ill advised. I should have said "discredited". The entire conspiracy rests on emails that talk about going out for pizza and other nonsense. It is a pizza joint after all. Including a triangle in the logo? It is a pizza joint after all. Mentioning the word "sauce"? It is a pizza joint after all.
My only point is that there should be consequences for people who spread unsubstantiated rumours that harm innocent people.Armand Jacks
March 6, 2017
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WJM, I hear you, though of course the overall issue is very much in doubt: people do not move to blatant intimidation and raw media pushes unless they feel their power is capable of pushing things through -- even, if they are desperate and are gambling; this is an all or none throw that we are seeing. What I am seeing tells me the hour is very late for our civilisation and I hope we are not seeing the lights going out. We simply cannot afford a dark age with nukes and other WMDs in play. KFkairosfocus
March 6, 2017
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KF - well, "we" broke through in electing Trump despite what I think is massive voter fraud engineered to elect Hillary, her 2 billion dollar election war chest (funded by totalitarian, anti-liberal countries in the middle east, bankers, corporations and hedge fund managers), non-stop attacks on Trump by the corporate media and collusion between the media and the Clinton campaign.
Yes, it's a clash of ideology deep-state war, but the power of the progressive agit-prop mostly lies in its capacity to deceive the public via a controlled propagandist media, and in the fact that the conservative/libertarian public is more interested in working and supporting family than marching on the street. But, that's changing. As Paul Joseph Watson has said, conservativism is the new counter-culture.
Note the rise of Drudge, Breitbart and OAN as powerful news and media sources that immediately push back and expose the progressive media collusion with the entrenched globalist administrative state to create destructive narratives.William J Murray
March 6, 2017
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Armand Jacks said:
I support exposing pedophiles whenever they are identified. Where I draw the line is spreading stories (conspiracies if you will) that are not fully substantiated. Rumours of pedophilia can ruin people’s’ lives even if they are proven to be false. For example, the Pizzagate conspiracy resulted in harassment of the owner and staff of the restaurant and a shooting. All because of a conspiracy theory that has been proven to be false.
Could you please direct me to where the Pizzagate conspiracy theory was officially investigated and proven false? I'd really appreciate that in order to put it to rest and not be troubled by it any more.William J Murray
March 6, 2017
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A striking, food for thought observation on "swamp leverage":
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/03/03/occams-razor-did-nsa-admiral-mike-rogers-warn-trump-on-november-17th-2016/
>>In the DC Swamp everyone has “black files” on everyone else, and they use them for leverage. The thicker the file the more leverage is carried by the holder. Swamp leverage is blackmail material which is traded like currency to achieve goals and objectives.>>
--> I fear this hits only all too close to home, and means that sound, truly sustainable policy is very much on the back burner at best.
KFkairosfocus
March 5, 2017
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Points of potential concern on FISA: http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/yes-obama-could-be-prosecuted-if-involved-with-illegal-surveillance/
--> Let us see where the evidence substantiates or does not in coming days.kairosfocus
March 5, 2017
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AJ,
the possibility of false accusation is indeed an issue -- ever since Joseph and Potiphar's sexually predatory wife -- and we should be cautious about unsubstantiated accusation or a witch-hunt mentality.
We should preserve the standard innocent till proved guilty.
We also must not crush whistleblowers or complainants or the concerned, and must reckon with the fact that large scale pedo organised crime networks [with linked human trafficking and enslavement], institutional subversion, the inner ring the- price- for- promotion- is- you- must- compromise- yourself game and more are credibly on the ground. The nasty story of David Cameron's hazing incident with the mouth of a pig speaks volumes about the sort of leverage being held over a lot of people in positions of power. In too many cases, extorted as admission price to join the ever narrower circles of power.
All of this is a tough balance.
When it comes to Pizzagate, I am cautious about blanket acceptance of claims, and I am actually suspicious about the shooting incident you point to; esp. when contrasted with the attempt against FRC and the attacks in Texas, San Bernardino, Ft Lauderdale etc. But, it is fair comment to say there is a lot of smoke coming from Washington DC, pointing to both major parties [e.g. Hastert, Weiner, Clinton from the 90's on, the triumph of aggressive homosexualism (go read Suetonius on Nero and read Rom 1 in that light, also on the historic pattern of Greek style homosexual behaviour to see why that is there), Epstein, and more], and that smoke points to dirty fire.
I suggest the incidence of symbols, code words and troubling associations leaves me concerned without necessarily buying wild speculations. (I suggest we all pause and read this and this; I have followed up links and have seen much worse.)
I frankly suspect the corruption in various elite quarters and seven mountain citadel institutions in our civilisation is approaching Rom 1, Nero levels; starting with the porn-perversions plague that has eaten out a lot of consciences, lives and marriages. That is why they were able to so readily distort marriage and push a cynical counterfeit under false colour of law, rapidly followed by promotion of gender confusion. The very fact that this is happening with very little effective resistance is smoke. I suspect a LOT of people are caught in the SMICE honey trap in different ways -- cf above in this thread.
A significant slice of the current unprecedented undermining of peaceful transfer of power on legitimate election obviously is, the insurgents are not part of the global web of tainted power. And, that tainted web cannot survive an honest, searching investigation.
WJM and those with him have my best wishes, though I confess that I am not highly confident that they will be able to break through.
Coming back, this is going to be a very difficult and painful ride on this front.
But please remember, this thread has MUCH bigger fish to fry: agit-prop and media shadow show strategies pointing to serious subversion and undermining of our civilisation.
Just the sign that the black shirts are now running with borderline lethal weapons should be a wake-up call.
KFkairosfocus
March 5, 2017
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More street level agit prop in Berkeley, showing a ramping up to the barely less than lethal:
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/03/04/10-arrested-in-berkeley-elderly-man-assaulted-following-violent-anti-trump-protest/
>>Ten people were arrested in Berkeley, California on Saturday following an anti-Trump protest that sought to counter a march in support of President Trump.
“A total of 10 people were arrested, including five for battery, four for assault with a deadly weapon and one for resisting arrest,” reported The Marin Independent Journal on Saturday. “Police reported items confiscated among the combatants were: ‘metal pipes, bats, 2x4s and pieces of wood. A group with bricks was detained, and their bricks confiscated.'”
Fighting is spreading to the streets in Berkeley. This isn't a Trump rally anymore. It's the anarchists. pic.twitter.com/cFIu7akCSX
— Lizzie Johnson (@lizziejohnsonnn) March 4, 2017
“Some anti-Trump protesters threw things at Trump supporters. Berkeley police made occasional forays into the crowd, but mostly held back,” they continued. “Protesters spilled out into Martin Luther King Junior Way and were fighting in the middle of the street, and there were people punching each other on the sidewalks. Some people had bloody faces. One pro-Trump supporter was apparently sprayed in the face with Mace.”
Several attendees complained about the lack of intervention by police officers, a complaint that was also common during the anti-Milo Berkeley riot last month.
An elderly attendee wearing a MAGA hat was also pepper-sprayed, causing him to collapse on the floor.
#March4Trump #berkeley elderly man pepper sprayed by #antifa pic.twitter.com/5z3O6UZuhL
— Jason Belich ???????? (@JasonBelich) March 4, 2017
Elderly Trump supporter rallies for Free Speech & Unity.
Gets pepper sprayed by violent leftists.
This is California.#Berkeley #March4Trump pic.twitter.com/PsBvqDK3eG
— Alex ???????? (@SoCal4Trump) March 4, 2017
“At least two people, with their faces covered up, could be seen on video trying to set fire to an American flag, while a photo on Twitter showed the bloody face of a man who wore a T-shirt that said ‘Trump is My President.'” added The LA Times.
During the riot at Berkeley last month against former Breitbart senior editor Milo Yiannopoulos, “Anti-fascists” started several fires, smashed windows and ATMs, looted downtown stores, attacked cars, and assaulted dozens of Milo fans, male and female, whom they falsely accused of being “Nazis.”>>
--> the pepper spray assault tactic reveals its deadly possibilities by causing collapse of an elderly man. The gap to murder would be a heart attack or hitting his head badly.
--> And notice the escalation of potentially lethal weapons: "metal pipes, bats, 2x4s and pieces of wood. A group with bricks was detained, and their bricks confiscated"
--> Something very wrong is going on and Berkeley is a clear ground zero.
--> Ask yourself, is this getting wall to wall so-called mainstream coverage? why or why not?
--> Do we really want to end up where Col Kratman describes?
--> Or, under rule 303?
KFkairosfocus
March 5, 2017
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A non-denial denial on wire tapping Trump?
Food for thought -- at minimum on what CAN be done even if an artfully worded denial is more innocent than a probing look suggests -- recall, our concern here is to understand how dirty, manipulative shadow show games can be played by the utterly ruthless and amoral:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/05/deepstategate-obama-trump-surveillance-fisa-investigation-russia/
>>The spotlight is now on President Barack Obama and his administration’s alleged surveillance of the Trump campaign, as well as his aides’ reported efforts to spread damaging information about Trump throughout government agencies to facilitate later investigations and, possibly, leaks to the media.
On Sunday morning, the White House released a statement indicating that the president would ask the congressional committees investigating Russian hacking theories to add the question of “whether executive branch investigative powers were abused in 2016.”
Media outlets continued to repeat that the story was based on “no evidence,” though the evidence was plain.
President Donald Trump originally tweeted about the alleged surveillance — which radio host Mark Levin called a “silent coup” by Obama staffers keen to undermine the new administration — on Saturday. Levin’s claims, reported at Breitbart News early Friday, were in turn based on information largely from mainstream outlets, including the New York Times and the Washington Post. Heat Street was one non-mainstream source, but the BBC also reported similar information in January. So, too, did the UK Guardian, which is a mainstream source (albeit with a decidedly left-wing slant, hardly favorable to Trump).
All day Saturday, former Obama staffers tried to put out the fires. A spokesperson for President Obama responded — and Obama aide Valerie Jarrett tweeted:
A cardinal rule of the Obama Administration was that no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice. As part of that practice, neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any U.S. citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is simply false.
As Breitbart News’ Matthew Boyle noted, however, it was a “non-denial denial.” It is worth examining the statement in detail.
“A cardinal rule of the Obama Administration was that no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice.”
Note that this sentence does not dispute any of the key factual allegations at issue: that the DOJ approached the FISA court for permission to spy on Trump aides; that surveillance, once granted, continued after no evidence was found of wrongdoing; that the Obama administration relaxed National Security Agency rules to facilitate the dissemination of evidence through the government; and that Obama staffers allegedly did so, the better to leak damaging (and partial) information to the media.
In addition, there is reason to doubt the claim that the White House never “interfered”: the New York Times reported in January that “intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House.”
Moreover, the first part of the sentence raises doubts about Lewis’s entire statement. Lewis could simply have said: “No White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the DOJ.” That would have been a clear denial. Instead, he referred to a “cardinal rule” that supposedly existed.
All that does is create deniability for the rest of the White House in the event that evidence turns up that someone was, in fact, involved with a Department of Justice probe. (No doubt Obama will be outraged to find out if someone broke the “cardinal rule,” and will claim to have found out through the media, rather than directly.) The Obama communications operation is notoriously careful with the way denials are worded.
“As part of that practice, neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any U.S. citizen.”
This is a meaningless denial, since the FISA court deals with communications with foreigners, with U.S. citizens potentially swept up in the investigation. It would have been possible for the DOJ to approach the FISA court with a request to monitor foreign entities allegedly communicating with the Trump campaign, using those intercepts as a way to monitor the Trump campaign itself. According to news reports cited by Andrew McCarthy, that could have been precisely what happened.
And, again, this sentence does not deny that someone in the Obama administration may have ordered such surveillance.
“Any suggestion otherwise is simply false.”
What we have here is a blanket denial crafted to protect President Barack Obama himself, but allowing him to admit later — once the facts emerge — that his administration was, in fact, up to something.>>
--> Not an endorsement, but let us understand how a world in which what the meaning of "is" is can become an issue.
--> I am reminded of the saying, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
KFkairosfocus
March 5, 2017
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Sessions, anatomy of a strawman caricature out of context, half-truth makes a whole slander, smear:
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/03/02/sessions-were-having-a-lot-of-troubling-leaks-a-lot-of-it-would-appear-to-be-in-violation-of-the-law/
>>Sessions also said he never considered amending his statement to the Senate about his meetings with Russia’s ambassador before now, and commented on his decision to recuse himself from any investigations pertaining to the Trump campaign by stating, “we had a full meeting some — a week or so ago, and planned to have a meeting today. It was on our schedule to make a final decision about whether or not I should recuse myself. And the reason I believed I should recuse myself is because I was involved in the campaign.”
Sessions was asked why, in the wake of former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn’s resignation, he didn’t amend his statement to the Senate about his meetings with the Russians. He responded that his answer was an honest one given in response to a specific question about whether he met with Russians on a continuing basis to advance the Trump campaign’s agenda. After host Tucker Carlson followed up as to why he didn’t just clarify his statement to avoid a problem similar to Flynn’s, Sessions stated, “I never gave that a thought. I never considered it. I don’t believe anyone ever mentioned that to me.” He later said that he would amend the record as to his testimony.
Sessions later stated that he didn’t recall “any discussion of the campaign” with the Russian ambassador “in any significant way.” He added, “It was in no way some sort of coordinating of an effort, doing anything improper. And I don’t believe anybody that was in that meeting would have seen or believed I said one thing that was improper or unwise.”
Sessions also commented on his recusal by saying that a recusal isn’t an admission of wrongdoing and that after he became Attorney General, “we met with professional staff, ethics people, to discuss this issue, and we had a full meeting some — a week or so ago, and planned to have a meeting today. It was on our schedule to make a final decision about whether or not I should recuse myself. And the reason I believed I should recuse myself is because I was involved in the campaign.” . . . >>
--> If this is how many major media houses are acting, and largely in lockstep, why should we give them the time of day, much less any respect?
--> Willful slander damages innocent reputations and can cost a country dear.
--> This also seems to be dirty political chess: to eventually take down the king, knock out the high value players one by one until the now isolated king can be taken down at will.
--> In short, this looks a lot like, we are right back at undermining peaceful transfer of power through a legitimate election.
KFkairosfocus
