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At EurekAlert: Antarctic glaciers losing ice at fastest rate for 5,500 years, finds study

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At the current rate of retreat the vast glaciers, which extend deep into the heart of the ice sheet, could contribute as much as 3.4 metres to global sea level rise over the next several centuries.

Antarctica is covered by two huge ice masses: the East and West Antarctic Ice Sheets, which feed many individual glaciers. Because of the warming climate, the WAIS has been thinning at accelerated rates over the past few decades. Within the ice sheet, the Thwaites and Pine Island glaciers are particularly vulnerable to global warming and are already contributing to rises in sea level.

Now, a new study led by the University of Maine and the British Antarctic Survey, including academics from Imperial College London, has measured the rate of local sea level change – an indirect way to measure ice loss – around these particularly vulnerable glaciers.

They found that the glaciers have begun retreating at a rate not seen in the last 5,500 years. With areas of 192,000 km2 (nearly the size of the island of Great Britain) and 162,300 km2 respectively, the Thwaites and Pine Island glaciers have the potential to cause large rises in global sea level.

“These currently elevated rates of ice melting may signal that those vital arteries from the heart of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet have been ruptured, leading to accelerating flow into the ocean that is potentially disastrous for future global sea level in a warming world. Is it too late to stop the bleeding?”

During the mid-Holocene period, over 5,000 years ago, the climate was warmer than today and thus sea levels were higher and glaciers smaller. The researchers wanted to study fluctuations in sea level since the mid-Holocene, so studied the remnants of old Antarctic beaches, which are today elevated above modern sea level.

They examined seashells and penguin bones on these beaches using radiocarbon dating – a technique that uses the radioactive decay of carbon locked in the shells and bones as a clock to tell us how long they have sat above sea level.

When heavy glaciers sit on the land, they push down or ‘load’ the Earth’s surface. After the glaciers’ ice melts or ‘unloads’, the land ‘bounces back’ so that what once was a beach is now higher than sea level. This explains why the local sea level for this land fell, while globally the water from the melting ice caused global sea levels to rise.

By pinpointing the precise age of these beaches, they could tell when each beach appeared and therefore reconstruct changes in local, or ‘relative’, sea level over time.

The results showed a steady fall in relative sea level over the last 5,500 years, which the researchers interpret as a result of ice loss just prior to that time. This pattern is consistent with relatively stable glacier behaviour with no evidence of large-scale glacier loss or advance.

The paper is published in Nature Geoscience.

EurekAlert

Comments
per post 44:
How We Moved Beyond Darwin to the Miracle of Man - Michael Denton - May 11, 2022 Concluding paragraph: "The more I examine the universe and study the details of its architecture, the more evidence I find that the universe in some sense must have known that we were coming.” And it is not only our biological design which was mysteriously foreseen in the fabric of nature. As The Miracle of Man shows, nature was also strikingly prearranged, as it were, for our unique technological journey from fire making, to metallurgy, to the advanced technology of our current civilization. Long before man made the first fire, long before the first metal was smelted from its ore, nature was already prepared and fit for our technological journey from the Stone Age to the present." https://evolutionnews.org/2022/05/how-we-moved-beyond-darwin-to-the-miracle-of-man/
bornagain77
June 12, 2022
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The article focuses on the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS), which is indeed melting/shrinking. However, the Eastern one is apparently growing, as BA-77 alludes to. Articles at wattsupwiththat.com suggest that the WAIS melting is at least partly caused by increased volcanic activity in that area - a purely natural effect - rather than human produced CO2 and "climate change". However, when every storm, flood, drought, hot spell, or unusual weather is blindly attributed to "climate change", which itself is assumed to be entirely caused by human CO2 emissions, it is no wonder that this article makes the same assumption. For any climate change "alarmist", I have two questions: - when has the climate not been changing? - when was the climate ideal and how do you know? If you cannot answer these questions then how can you say that "climate change" is a bad thing? For more, see: https://thopid.blogspot.com/2020/11/climate-change-revisited.htmlFasteddious
June 11, 2022
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belfast- ID is about the detection and study of design in nature. Accordingly, the Earth is intelligently designed. So, we study it so we can understand it. Pretty simple, actually.ET
June 11, 2022
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A couple relevant facts about glacier formation. First: Glaciers are formed sometimes hundreds of miles from the calving that is the most visible part of a glacier. Snow fall is what forms glaciers and the snow levels at the accumulation area of a glacier have more to do with how big the glacier is than anything else. Second: The Antarctic is one of the driest areas on earth. There is little snow fall each year and considered the largest desert on earth. So the accumulation is extremely slow. I spent about 2 months in Antartica and there was a movie available about it called I “Desert without Sand.” However, there are some interesting areas that are extremely barren with little ice called the Dry Valleys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_Hh0q6KsmEjerry
June 11, 2022
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Of related note:
The Miracle of Man: Extraordinary “Coincidences” All the Way Down - - June 9, 2022 Excerpt: On a new episode of ID the Future, Miracle of Man author and biologist Michael Denton continues his conversation with host Eric Anderson. Here Denton offers a review of several more anthropic “coincidences” in chemistry, biochemistry, and Earth sciences that are fine tuned to allow air-breathing, bipedal, technology-developing terrestrial creatures like ourselves to exist and thrive. The fine tuning, what Denton calls anthropic prior fitness, would seem to require foresight and planning on literally a cosmic scale. https://evolutionnews.org/2022/06/the-miracle-of-man-extraordinary-coincidences-all-the-way-down/
Podcast:
The Miracle of Man: Extraordinary “Coincidences” All the Way Down https://idthefuture.com/1609/
First three parts of the interview with Dr. Denton are here
1 https://idthefuture.com/1601/ 2 https://idthefuture.com/1604/ 3 https://idthefuture.com/1606/
Book
The Miracle of Man: The Fine Tuning of Nature for Human Existence (Privileged Species Series) – May 6, 2022 https://www.amazon.com/dp/1637120125/
bornagain77
June 11, 2022
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CD: "you seem bent on reading more into my comments than is there. I’m not contrasting “design” with naturalism or materialism." And then in the very next sentence he states,,, CD: "Rather, I’m saying that your omnipotent God is surely capable of creating an Eden for a couple human beings without the elaborate and wasteful runup….." To point out the blatantly obvious, to argue against Judeo-Christian Theism is to, by default, to argue for some other worldview, whether it be naturalism or materialism, (and/or Deism, Pantheism). Yet, the scientific evidence simply does not support any of those worldviews, but rather supports the Judeo-Christian worldview which holds that God created the earth and everything on it, not instantaneously as CD is trying to hold, but over a period of time, i.e. 'six days'.
Genesis 2:1-3. Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done What Happened on Each Day of Creation? https://www.christianity.com/wiki/bible/what-happened-on-each-day-of-creation.html
Thus for CD to 'theologically' presuppose that God should have created Eden, basically, instantaneously, (without a 'wasteful runup' as he termed it), is for CD to argue against a position that Judeo-Christian Theism never held. In short, CD is employing what is known as a straw man fallacy in that he is arguing against a position that I never held.
Straw Man fallacy - A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person's argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making.
bornagain77
June 11, 2022
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BA77/38
This ‘miraculous efficiency’ for the universe in producing a planet capable of supporting an ‘advanced civilization’ is simply not to be expected under naturalistic presuppositions. Specifically, it smacks of teleological, i.e. end directed, purpose which is strictly forbidden under naturalistic presuppositions.
Like KF, you seem bent on reading more into my comments than is there. I'm not contrasting "design" with naturalism or materialism. Rather, I'm saying that your omnipotent God is surely capable of creating an Eden for a couple human beings without the elaborate and wasteful runup.....chuckdarwin
June 11, 2022
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Belfast @40, Let me assure you that ET understands ID and is not joking. ID does not, generally speaking, have a mission of finding evidence of design in life or the origin of the universe. ID is simply the presumption of design in contrast to the presumption of random materialistic interactions out of which life "musta" come about. That ID is superior to materialism is based solely on pragmatism, namely that the presumption that all living things and their components have a designed purpose advances science faster than assuming everything is "junk" until proven otherwise. So-called "junk" DNA and "vestigial" organs are two excellent examples. From the start, ID has not taken a position on the source of that design. If it makes you happy, you can assume it's Gaia or a class project at some extraterrestrial university. -QQuerius
June 10, 2022
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ET@19 “ The intelligent design community is interested in scientific findings that pertain to the Earth.” You’re joking, of course, or reaching way out to find a hook. If you are not, then it it to be supposed that we will have meteorite collision scares, earthquake news, volcano warnings, drought, floods - the potential list of topics is gargantuan. Intelligent design, generally speaking, deals with evidence of design found in life, primarily, and just behind, evidence of design in the formation of the universe. This necessarily deals with aspects of materialism, cause, evolution, and consciousness. Other topics can find a place in the fringes but theoretical predictions of sea-level rises is not one of them.Belfast
June 10, 2022
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So, where did all this ice come from anyway? And what happened 5,500 years ago to cause the same thing to happen? And what would be the effect if all Arctic ice melted? Is climate stasis even a reasonable goal? FWIW, I think that the number three threat after a nuclear exchange by insane dictators, the largest threat to the earth's biome continues to be massive rates of deforestation and desertification. The number two threat is climate scientists intervening with the the earth's climate and accidentally wiping out life on earth. Remember that some of them in the 1960s proposed to forestall a predicted ice age by setting off nuclear weapons at the poles . . . -QQuerius
June 10, 2022
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CD, so you don't want to 'intelligently' create a planet capable of supporting 'advanced' life more efficiently than God did? :) Please don't be so modest. :) ,,, The 'anthropic principle inequality' originally comes from Brandon Carter,
Hugh Ross, Ph astrophysicist -- Why the Universe is the way it is - (The Anthropic Inequality) – video (50:24 minute mark) ?https://youtu.be/mzIVrcSyprU?t=3028
Moreover, Dr. Ross's main point is that the 'anthropic principle inequality' strongly indicates that the universe had us in mind all along,,, as the end goal as it were.
Why the Universe is the Way it is - page 113 https://books.google.com/books?id=U5LToA5PI-UC&pg=PA113&lpg=PA113&dq=Anthropic+inequality+hugh+ross&source=bl&ots=XubeMWvYpY&sig=ACfU3U1tOYweSmeEpruXa7TW_jaaKjrWzA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjE_c-7laT4AhWULH0KHdk1D9sQ6AF6BAgXEAM#v=onepage&q=Anthropic%20inequality%20hugh%20ross&f=false
This 'miraculous efficiency' for the universe in producing a planet capable of supporting an 'advanced civilization' is simply not to be expected under naturalistic presuppositions. Specifically, it smacks of teleological, i.e. end directed, purpose which is strictly forbidden under naturalistic presuppositions. And Dr. Ross is not alone in his observation that this is a very 'lucky' coincidence
Lucky Us: Turning the Copernican Principle on Its Head - Daniel Bakken - January 26, 2015 Excerpt: What if intelligence and technology hadn't arisen in Earth's habitability time window? Waltham in Lucky Planet asks "So, how do we explain the remarkable coincidence that the timescale for the emergence of intelligence is almost the same as the timescale for habitability?" Researchers Carter and Watson have dubbed this idea the anthropic inequality and it seems surprising, if it is not for some purpose.,,, http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/01/lucky_us_turnin093011.html
Supplemental notes falsifying the Copernican principle and/or the 'principle of mediocrity',
the Copernican Principle and/or the Principle of Mediocrity has now been overturned by both General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, our two most powerful theories in science: (as well as by several other lines of scientific evidence) March 2022 https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/neil-thomas-on-evolutionary-theory-as-magical-thinking/#comment-748883
Verse:
Isaiah 45:18-19 For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens, who is God, who formed the earth and made it, who established it, who did not create it in vain, who formed it to be inhabited: “I am the Lord, and there is no other. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth; I did not say to the seed of Jacob, ‘seek me in vain’; I, the Lord speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.”
bornagain77
June 10, 2022
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BA77/23 I don't think Ross is necessarily wrong in his rendition as far as it goes, I just don't see it as "miraculous efficiency." Rather, it seems like an awfully circuitous route just to create a couple people.....chuckdarwin
June 10, 2022
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Asauber: I kind of asked it rhetorically. Wasn’t expecting a reasonable dialog with you. Thanks for the vote of confidence.JVL
June 10, 2022
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"So, why did you ask me?" JVL, I kind of asked it rhetorically. Wasn't expecting a reasonable dialog with you. Andrewasauber
June 10, 2022
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Asauber: Read through it. It’s not well-measured. So, why did you ask me?JVL
June 10, 2022
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"You could actually read the article and find out for yourself, make up your own mind." Read through it. It's not well-measured. Andrewasauber
June 10, 2022
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Asuaber: Well-measured? You could actually read the article and find out for yourself, make up your own mind. But if you'd rather have me tell you what to think I can do that.JVL
June 10, 2022
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"It’s a well known and well studied phenomena." Well-measured? Andrewasauber
June 10, 2022
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Post-glacial rebound (also called isostatic rebound or crustal rebound) is the rise of land masses after the removal of the huge weight of ice sheets during the last glacial period, which had caused isostatic depression.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound It's a well known and well studied phenomena. Why didn't you just look it up?JVL
June 10, 2022
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"I have no idea." Jerry, Well, the story doesn't say. It doesn't say how it was measured. Apparently, that bit of info isn't important to the story, if you know what I mean. Andrewasauber
June 10, 2022
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How much did it rise?
I have no idea. The OP just said it did rise.jerry
June 10, 2022
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"Land rose so apparent coast line fell." Jerry, How much did it rise? Does the story say? Andrewasauber
June 10, 2022
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The more I think about this stupid statement, the stupider it becomes.
Actually make logical sense. Land rose so apparent coast line fell. The weight of glacier/ice sheet suppressed the land. The weight is gone so land rose up some. Maybe opposite effect is happening to Manhattan. All the buildings are pushing land down so it might appear the water is rising.jerry
June 10, 2022
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So maybe next time Eric can post something about what's missing from the story in the OP. You know, actually investigate coulda woulda shoulda claims. Andrewasauber
June 10, 2022
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“This explains why the local sea level for this land fell, while globally the water from the melting ice caused global sea levels to rise.” The more I think about this stupid statement, the stupider it becomes. So the local sea level fell, but rose everywhere else? Andrewasauber
June 10, 2022
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CD: "but “miraculous efficiency?” Really?" Well CD, if you disagree, prove Dr. Ross wrong and go 'intelligently' create a planet, 'one richly layered with the biodeposits necessary for civilized intelligent life', more efficiently. Of note:
The Microbial Engines That Drive Earth’s Biogeochemical Cycles - Paul G. Falkowski - 2008 Excerpt: Microbial life can easily live without us; we, however, cannot survive without the global catalysis and environmental transformations it provides. https://www.nrel.colostate.edu/assets/nrel_files/projects/ssi/docs/microbiology_articles/falkowski_et_al_2008.pdf - Paul G. Falkowski is Professor Geological Sciences at Rutgers When did oxygenic photosynthesis evolve? - Roger Buick - 2008 Excerpt:,, U–Pb data from ca 3.8Ga metasediments suggest that this metabolism could have arisen by the start of the geological record. Hence, the hypothesis that oxygenic photosynthesis evolved well before the atmosphere became permanently oxygenated seems well supported. http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/363/1504/2731.long?
bornagain77
June 10, 2022
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"This explains why the local sea level for this land fell, while globally the water from the melting ice caused global sea levels to rise." It doesn't explain jack squat. Andrewasauber
June 10, 2022
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Roughly 15 billion years represents a minimum preparation time for advanced life: 11 billion toward formation of a stable planetary system, one with the right chemical and physical conditions for primitive life, and four billion more years toward preparation of a planet within that system, one richly layered with the biodeposits necessary for civilized intelligent life. Even this long time and convergence of “just right” conditions reflect miraculous efficiency.
As Ms. Piggy would say, "all for moi?" Quite the extravaganza, but "miraculous efficiency?" Really?chuckdarwin
June 10, 2022
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Jerry: "Some here will like it because it is by a philosopher who goes into epistemology and uses a non religious basis for morality." Since God actually is the basis of objective morality, exactly how is that 'non-religious', i.e. philosophical, basis for objective morality suppose to work?
Premise 1: If God does not exist, then objective moral values and duties do not exist. Premise 2: Objective moral values and duties do exist. Conclusion: Therefore, God exists. The Moral Argument – drcraigvideos - video https://youtu.be/OxiAikEk2vU?t=276
As former atheist, turned christian, CS Lewis succinctly stated,
“My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?,,, - C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity. Harper San Francisco, Zondervan Publishing House, 2001, pp. 38-39.
of note:
C.S. Lewis: Top 10 Facts Everyone Should Know About 'One of the Intellectual Giants of the 20th Century' Excerpt: Clive Staples Lewis was one of the intellectual giants of the twentieth century and arguably one of the most influential writers of his day,, 7. Lewis was a great scholar. His academic books are still required reading at Oxford and Cambridge.,,, https://www.christianpost.com/news/c-s-lewis-top-10-facts-everyone-should-know-about-one-of-the-intellectual-giants-of-the-20th-century.html
bornagain77
June 10, 2022
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Belfast:
Suppose it is true – so what? How does that serve the Intelligent Design Community?
The intelligent design community is interested in scientific findings that pertain to the Earth.ET
June 10, 2022
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