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At Phys.org: NASA gets serious about UFOs

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What are the implications of NASA’s public involvement in this issue?

NASA is officially joining the hunt for UFOs. The space agency on Thursday announced a new study that will recruit leading scientists to examine unidentified aerial phenomena—a subject that has long fascinated the public and recently gained high-level attention from Congress.

The project will begin early this fall and last around nine months, focusing on identifying available data, how to gather more data in future, and how NASA can analyze the findings to try to move the needle on scientific understanding.

“Over the decades, NASA has answered the call to tackle some of the most perplexing mysteries we know of, and this is no different,” Daniel Evans, the NASA scientist responsible for coordinating the study, told reporters on a call.

While NASA probes and rovers scour the solar system for the fossils of ancient microbes, and its astronomers look for so-called “technosignatures” on distant planets for signs of intelligent civilizations, this is the first time the agency will investigate unexplained phenomena in Earth’s skies.

The announcement comes as the field of UFO study, once a poorly-regarded research backwater, is gaining more mainstream traction.

“One of the things we tangentially hope to do as part of this study, simply by talking about it in the open, is to help to remove some of the stigma associated with it, and that will yield obviously, increased access to data, more reports, more sightings.”

Phys.org

Comments
Relatd/46:
Traveling faster than light is happening now with galaxies moving away from us at (fancy term) superluminal velocities. Look it up.
Yes, the galaxies are "moving away from us" at superluminal velocities; however, that doesn't mean the galaxy itself is "moving" at a superluminal velocity. Instead, space and time itself are expanding at superluminal speeds--which carry along the galaxies.
At the sub-atomic/quantum level, everything falls apart. An observed object can be in two (or more) quantum states at once. Next fancy term, quantum superposition.
You don't seem to grasp that quantum mechanics describes particle and motions having the speed limit of light. Entanglement happens at the speed of light; not faster. Quantum weirdness has nothing to do with physics falling apart once you attempt to play make-believe and consider things moving faster than light.
So-called science fiction has been written by people working in actual science. It’s speculation followed by experiment and observation that leads to real world breakthroughs. Not, “Oh, everything that’s worth inventing has been invented so we might as well close the Patent Office now.” Me paraphrasing an actual proposal regarding the Patent Office.
Yes, and the scientists in the late 1960's, who knew about quantum mechanics and quantum field theory, the Big Bang, and computer science, they got things exactly right in 2001, A Space Odyssey. Where's "Hal"?
Scientists have been creating these quantum states with larger and larger particles. Quantum Entanglement involves what appears to be instantaneous action over a relatively great distance. The maximum range is either unknown or has not been published.
They haven't been "creating" these entangled states, they've been "identifying" them. It is definitively NOT "instantaneous action" at a distance. It's the wave functions becoming entangled at the speed of light. Which leads to . . .
So, if a spaceship could be entangled with a distant planet, you could go there quickly.
How do you know that the spaceship isn't already entangled with a distant planet? Have you called up the planet? Make believe. Entanglement has been a mystery since Schrodinger, in the early 30's, began reflecting on it--and having defined it, saw the problems with it. It is very strange that a photon coming from space can become 'entangled' with one from earth before it was even produced here--the kind of results from experiments that have shown up recently. In my view, these types of experiments do no more that to point out the problem in our understanding of "measurement," something ill-defined in quantum mechanics to this day. I wouldn't bet my spaceship on this notion of entanglement being right in the long-run.PaV
June 14, 2022
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@Relatd #59 Are you still plagiarizing? Truthfully, I have absolutely no clue what you're trying to prove here—you're all over the place with the spam. Qualified? Can you define what you mean by qualified? Considering that the phenomenon was brand new, and therefore unknown, it's quite reasonable to assume that nobody was qualified to study UFOs during this timeframe, even the most eminent scientists. I did point to one group of researchers, but you dismissed them as being irrelevant—a noticeably reoccurring tactic of yours. As the saying goes, you can lead horse to the water, but can't make him drink the water. Perhaps you'll have better luck convincing someone else. CheersKRock
June 13, 2022
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KRock at 58, Name one "qualified" researcher. NONE, as in none of the early groups relied on esoteric anything. The early saucer clubs were composed of average citizens who believed that UFOs were spaceships from other worlds. 1948 - Fate magazine launches in the Spring. The cover shows a highly distorted painting of the ninth object Kenneth Arnold saw. None of the remaining 8 objects were circular but were identical to each other. 1952 - Aerial Phenomena Research Organization (APRO). 1953 - Flying Saucers from Outer Space, a book by Major Donald E. Keyhoe, U.S. Marine Corps (ret.) appears. From the back cover: The Air Force, and its investigating agency, "Project Bluebook," are aware of Major Keyhoe's conclusion that the the "Flying Saucers" are from another planet. Some of the personnel believe that there may be some strange natural phenomena completely unknown to us, but that if the apparently controlled maneuvers reported by many competent observers are correct, then the only remaining explanation is the interplanetary answer. Very Truly Yours (signed) Albert M. Chop Air Force Press Desk Dated 26 January 1953 1954 - Civilian Saucer Intelligence is formed in New York. October, 1956 - NICAP, National Investigation Committee on Aerial Phenomena. And so on. Average people were seeing and photographing flying saucers. Period. 1967 - "Last fall, the U. S. Air Force put up $313,000 to finance the first major study of UFOs — and of the behavioral characteristics of saucer-sighters — at the University of Colorado, with an eight-man team headed by Dr. Edward U. Condon, a distinguished atomic physicist. In September. Dr. G. N. Patterson, director of the University of Toronto's Institute for Aerospace Studies, told Maclean’s that a group of Toronto scientists was starting its own investigation — hopefully with U. S. and Canadian government participation. The project was launched several weeks later at a seminar in Toronto attended by Dr. J. Allen Hynek, director of Northwestern University’s Lindheimer Astronomical Research Center and an open-minded consultant on UFOs to the U. S. Air Force." Excerpt from the November 1, 1967 MACLEAN"S magazine. So this has all happened before.relatd
June 13, 2022
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@Relatd #55 There's a couple of things I'd like to address with respect to your last comment. Before I begin, though, I'm wondering if you can confirm whether or not your name is Ed, or more specifically, Edwest3? Because if you're not him, you certainly like plagiarizing his work. Having said that, we can never know for sure that you are indeed Edwest3; therefore I believe I'm entirely justified in inferring that you plagiarized his comments—almost verbatim—from another discussion thread. Even if I were to give you the benefit of the doubt, you've still managed to show how lazy you really are, as you literally copied and pasted a comment, which I'm sure you'll claim you wrote. Moving on, Firstly, you're two choices represent a false dichotomy. For example, it is entirely possible that UFOs are merely constructs of our own human conciseness, meaning that they are neither man made craft or come from other planets/worlds, but are optical illusions created in the human brain (for the record, I don't subscribe to this theory). Secondly, I'd like clarify that my reference to western esotericism and ufology was to highlight the historical significance of how researchers, since the very beginning of the modern UFO era, have relied on such practices and teachings as a means of understanding the nature of the phenomenon. Whether you think the comments are superficial is your own prerogative—I could care less. Thirdly, everything you've mentioned is still a matter of conjecture—not evidence against the reality of UFOs. In fact, your so-called arguments (if one can even call them that) tell us nothing; you're simply regurgitating the same old talking points that UFO skeptics have used for decades, all of which have been dealt with by far more qualified researchers than myself.KRock
June 13, 2022
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Superluminal velocities are apparent. Meaning they are illusory due to perspective.ET
June 13, 2022
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OK. Maybe they are advanced humans from by-gone errors. Some live under the water and others inside the Moon with concealed entrances on the far side. Too many accounts from well-trained aviators to just brush it away. Too many accounts throughout history, to just brush away. Is Shag Harbour a civilian and military conspiracy?ET
June 13, 2022
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KRock at 52, I've seen zero evidence of actual research about the subject here from others. Just superficial or esoteric comments that do not address the issue - at all. 1) Flying saucers come from other worlds. 2) Flying saucers are made on earth. Only 2) makes sense. Here is the relevant information. 1938: Henri Coanda patents his Lenticular Aerodyne. It is a classic biconvex flying saucer. This is the same man who is known for the "Coanda Effect." He was living and working in France when the war started. He is located by the Germans in 1940 and put to work further developing this aircraft. During the war, Josef Andreas Epp does development work on a similar craft. See https://www.amazon.de/Die-Realität-Flugscheiben-Gernot-Geise/dp/3895396052/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&qid=1625252971&refinements=p_27:Andreas+Epp&s=books&sr=1-2&text=Andreas+Epp 1945: Henri Coanda is being sought by the French authorities for collaboration with the Germans. He is located by a combined Anglo-American intelligence team and brought to the United States. In a post-war interview, Coanda states that the Russians captured the others he was working with. Russia fields this technology before the U.S. and overflies the United States shortly after the war. By 1947, the consensus among those in Air Force intelligence is that the flying saucers are Russian. In the meantime, a separate, highly secret, program is created to develop this technology in the U.S.relatd
June 13, 2022
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@JHolo #53 You have a better chance of drawing a one-ended stick than getting Relatd to actually research somethingKRock
June 13, 2022
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Relatd: You’re not very good at this research thing, are you?
You might want to look into why they use terms like "apparent superluminal motions. There is a reason for it.JHolo
June 13, 2022
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@Relatd #39 "BSRA was nothing." That's your own personal opinion—nothing more. "Project Magnet was never well documented." That's probably because the program itself was underfunded and was never officially authorized by the Canadian government. More importantly though, your claim that the project was not well documented has nothing to do with my point regarding Wilbert Smith—absolutely nothing. "Steven Greer is a quack, not a Ufologist." Again, this is your own personal opinion—nothing more. "Blavatsky? Yeah, let’s throw her nonsense books out there." Why wouldn't I? Her theosophical teachings were influential among some of the earliest UFO enthusiasts, as well as with many present day ufologists. Meaning Blavatsky in general is relevant to my over all point, which is that many researchers—from the earliest days of the so-called modern UFO era—have relied on western esotericism as a means of understanding the phenomenon. Honestly, your responses are boarding on the level of "weapons grade stupid."KRock
June 13, 2022
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JH at 49, KF is on my Verboten Forever list. The author of War and Peace is turning in his grave - after brief exposure to KF's posts from the beyond.relatd
June 13, 2022
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JH at 48, You're not very good at this research thing, are you? https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.04374 You may want to stick with those 'other' subjects.relatd
June 13, 2022
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Relatd: I suspect the issues you mention are of concern to you and some here, but that’s it. And to just start talking about them anywhere on any thread suggests an obsessive-compulsive disorder.
Then you should take it up with KF. He is the one who keeps bringing up abortion on threads not about abortion.JHolo
June 13, 2022
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Relatd: Traveling faster than light is happening now with galaxies moving away from us at (fancy term) superluminal velocities. Look it up.
I did. And this is what I found.
In truth, individual galaxies typically move through space at relatively slow speeds: between 0.05% and 1.0% the speed of light, no more.
JHolo
June 13, 2022
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JH at 45, I suspect the issues you mention are of concern to you and some here, but that's it. And to just start talking about them anywhere on any thread suggests an obsessive-compulsive disorder.relatd
June 13, 2022
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PaV at 44, Traveling faster than light is happening now with galaxies moving away from us at (fancy term) superluminal velocities. Look it up. At the sub-atomic/quantum level, everything falls apart. An observed object can be in two (or more) quantum states at once. Next fancy term, quantum superpopsition. So-called science fiction has been written by people working in actual science. It's speculation followed by experiment and observation that leads to real world breakthroughs. Not, "Oh, everything that's worth inventing has been invented so we might as well close the Patent Office now." Me paraphrasing an actual proposal regarding the Patent Office. Scientists have been creating these quantum states with larger and larger particles. Quantum Entanglement involves what appears to be instantaneous action over a relatively great distance. The maximum range is either unknown or has not been published. So, if a spaceship could be entangled with a distant planet, you could go there quickly.relatd
June 13, 2022
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PaV: First of all, this is complete rubbish. Second of all, I’ve never seen you post here before. So how would you have any idea whatsoever as to where threads end up?
I’ve been posting here for a couple months. I have also looked at some of the longer threads going back a couple years. Abortion was repeatedly brought up on the school shooting threat. Same sex marriage, transgendered and objective/subjective morality have been discussed on several threads who’s OP was not about these issues.JHolo
June 13, 2022
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Relatd: Yes, what are the power requirements? They must be immense if you were to travel faster than light. However, traveling faster means "breaking the light-speed barrier," at which point, all the mathematics describing our universe fall apart. So, no, I don't think traveling faster than the speed of light is possible. The phantasy you find in science-fiction movies is that of 'wormholes' and such. But John Wheeler who proposed the possibility of such realities was considering microscopic scales, not macroscopic. It is for a reason called 'science-fiction."PaV
June 13, 2022
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PaV at 42, 1) What are the power requirements for interstellar travel? 2) Assuming traveling faster than light is possible - and I believe it is - it would be possible to get to Earth from a nearby star in a short (meaning days) period of time. 3) Traveling faster than light in normal space does not take into account non-trivial friction with hydrogen atoms. Also, an impact from something as small as a grain of sand would be equivalent to an explosion. So, a force field would have to be assumed. 4) NOT everything is online. 5) Yes, the U.S. Air Force contracted with A.V. Roe, a Canadian company, to build a flying saucer aircraft. They were successful and the project was immediately classified. The cover of the relevant document reads: Weapons System 606A (Supersonic Application) February 1958 Avro Aircraft Limited 6) It was discovered that the circular saucer shape deflected radar. This aircraft was a high-speed, high-altitude reconnaissance platform. Engineers tried everything they could think of to reduce the Radar Cross-Section (RCS) of the U-2 but failed. For a while, the Russians could track it but could not shoot it down. 7) The Russians also had this technology but much earlier.relatd
June 13, 2022
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As to UFO's: (1) Did you know that the US Air Force built "flying saucers" in the 50's. They were basically horizontally-oriented jet engines, open on top and that required those Air Force troops on top of the flying saucer to wear masks for higher-altitude flying. Those masks look quite like what ET's are supposed to look like. There are photos of all of this online, if you look. (2) A few years back, there was video shown of something that happened right off of San Diego, a large naval base. The flight of the objects was unusual, but very simple. In my estimation, they were too simple. Just the other day it was reported that the cause of those images had been discovered: Chinese drones. (3) More recently, we've seen images of some kind of aircraft going at exceptionally high speeds and that plunge directly into the ocean (where, of course, the ETs live!). Well, now we're talking about hypersonic missiles traveling at multiples of the speed of sound. And, if you were going to test these missiles, naturally you would have them dispose themselves in the ocean. (4) Six months, or so, ago, there was an image released of some very strange objects appearing in the night sky with strange green lighting and odd triangular shapes. A few weeks later, I read about a new type of craft being built for the Air Force that had triangular shaped wings and, IIRC, has the ability to hover in the air. Conclusion: the reason that our government is now "revealing" all this video footage and promoting the idea of UFOs is because they are in the process of testing aircraft with exceptionable maneuverability and capabilities and they don't want us to know about it. We're being had!! I know a pilot who flew for a major airline going into major hubs in Europe. He never saw any UFO's flying commercial. However, he did fly--and I'm supposing, secretly for the military and he saw UFO's near those military installations. Color me very skeptical. Logically, if you can't travel faster than the speed of light, then how in the world can you travel here? A round trip to the nearest galaxy is 25,000 light years. So, talk about there must be life out there somewhere in those billions of galaxies is meaningless. The only possibility for us encountering life is within our own galaxy. That reduces the odds doesn't it?PaV
June 13, 2022
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JHolo/34:
Regardless of the topic, almost every thread devolves into discussions about abortion, homosexuality and transgendered.
First of all, this is complete rubbish. Second of all, I've never seen you post here before. So how would you have any idea whatsoever as to where threads end up?PaV
June 13, 2022
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JHolo/25: Well, it got rid of a narcissist who wanted to shoot peaceful protesters. Yes. Most successful leaders have narcissistic tendencies. I've seen this first-hand. And what do we have now? Someone suffering from dementia who has threatened citizens who oppose government policy with nuclear bombs. I never though I would live to see the day that a U.S. President would make such a comment. But Biden did.PaV
June 13, 2022
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KRock at 37, BSRA was nothing. Project Magnet was never well documented. What is well documented is the flying saucer aircraft development work conducted by John Frost at the A.V. Roe company in Canada. Steven Greer is a quack, not a Ufologist. The "Disclosure Project" disclosed nothing. Throwing NASA into the mix adds more nothing. Blavatsky? Yeah, let's throw her nonsense books out there.relatd
June 13, 2022
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ET at 35, No way. They are not going to announce anything except more announcements.relatd
June 13, 2022
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@JHolo #19 For the record, I never said I subscribed to a belief in "nuts and bolts" UFOs. I do believe, though, that the phenomenon is real—real in the sense that people do experience what they perceive to be UFOs and abductions by aliens; I just happen to think the phenomenon has more to do with some level of consciousness than it does with extraterrestrial visitors from other planets. What most people don't realize is that inquires into the UFO phenomenon have long been associated with western esoteric practices and teachings. During the 1940s, for example, there were certain research groups (e.g., Borderland Sciences Research Association) who openly investigated the phenomenon by means of spirit channeling. Similarly, Wilbert Smith, who directed Canada's Project Magnet (a top secret UFO study program), was heavily influenced by the so-called psychic abilities of Francis Swan; she claimed to be able to contact alien beings through the practice of automatic writing, and is reported to have even conjured up a UFO while being interviewed by Naval investigators. Still today, some ufologists, such as Steven Greer, openly admit to relying on eastern transcendental meditation (i.e., mantra) techniques in order to obtain a higher state of consciousness, and too summon UFOs (see Greer's CE5 project). Coincidently, Helena Blavatsky—the 19th century occultist—also drew extensively from very similar practices, which were fundamental to her esoteric teachings.KRock
June 13, 2022
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JH, many threads get dragged off topic into side tracks, through the actions of the obsessed. KFkairosfocus
June 13, 2022
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Back to the topic- Given an Intelligently Designed universe, it is a given that we are not alone. And UFO sightings go back for centuries. Biblical scholars even say they are discussed in the Bible. I'm pretty sure NASA and the military already know that they exist. The time may be coming that they are going to announce their arrival, officially.ET
June 12, 2022
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Relatd: I am getting real tired of seeing a topic getting buried under purely off topic election and politics trash. And not just here.
Then you are definitely on the wrong site. Regardless of the topic, almost every thread devolves into discussions about abortion, homosexuality and transgendered.JHolo
June 12, 2022
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I am getting real tired of seeing a topic getting buried under purely off topic election and politics trash. And not just here.relatd
June 12, 2022
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Relatd: You know it’s wrong to accuse everybody? Especially people you’ve never met in real life?
I can only go with what I read here. So far, there aren’t many exceptions to my statement. Although I am sure there are some. And I apologize to those.JHolo
June 12, 2022
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