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News-watch: yet another incident of mass violence in FL, USA — where is this nihilism coming from?

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First, condolences and prayers for victims and families.

Daily Mail has a useful header that seems to capture key themes to ponder as we head into the weekend:

These was of course — within minutes — the usual talking point exchange on firearms, gun-free [= target-rich] zones, mental illness and effects of certain antidepressants, affiliations (Antifa and Islamism have also been suggested and there is a picture of him in a MAGA hat) and the like, etc.

U/D: My email inbox has a link to Townhall that points to a claim that “Leon County law enforcement sources told the Tallahassee Democrat that they could not find information linking Cruz, 19, to the Republic of Florida Militia, as first reported by the group’s self-proclaimed leader Jordan Jereb.” So, that one is a bit of a mystery.

My own view is that there need to be mental illness facilities that can effectively detain potentially violent inmates, that we do need to look at effects of drugs and that schools, organisations and public meetings need oversight by an organised, armed civilian marshal corps. Including churches. I have even suggested the Tavor in semi-automatic form and a 6.5 mm Grendel loading, and would add 9 mm pistols where such would be a better fit. That coach should never have been forced to try to use his body as a shield. Obviously, one guard was not enough. Where, too, four or five people (at least two armed), would credibly be able to take down such a would-be shooter in a case where “when seconds count, the police are minutes away.”

While I am at it, if he was repeatedly reported (including to the FBI), was expelled and in a school for the troubled, how was he able to organise and carry out such an attack?

However, we need more.

What is it that is eating out our civilisation and is sending the message to those on the fringes that instead of cherishing one’s neighbour one can view and treat one’s neighbour as little more than a target. Perhaps, all too literally.

Let me add a remark by Pat Buchanan, which points to a further factor:

>>While this massacre may be a product of mental illness, it is surely a product of moral depravity. For this was premeditated and plotted, done in copycat style to the mass killings to which this country has become all too accustomed.

Nikolas Cruz thought this through. He knew it was Valentine’s Day. He brought his fully loaded AR-15 with extra magazines and smoke grenades to the school that had expelled him. He set off a fire alarm, knowing it would bring students rushing into crowded halls where they would be easy to kill. He then escaped by mixing in with fleeing students.

The first ingredient, then, was an icy indifference toward human life and a willingness to slaughter former fellow students to deliver payback for whatever it was Cruz believed had been done to him at Douglas High.

In his case, the conscience was dead, or was buried beneath hatred, rage or resentment at those succeeding where he had failed. He had been rejected, cast aside, expelled. This would be his revenge, and it would be something for Douglas High and the nation to see – and never forget.

Indeed, it seems a common denominator of the atrocities to which we have been witness in recent years is that the perpetrators are nobodies who wish to die as somebodies.

If a sense of grievance against those perceived to have injured them is the goad that drives misfits like Cruz to mass murder, the magnet that draws them to it is infamy. Infamy is their shortcut to immortality.>>

Maybe, we need to ponder a point raised by Bryan, in the 1920’s — though it will doubtless excite ire in some quarters:

>>Darwinism leads to a denial of God. Nietzsche carried Darwinism to its logical conclusion and it made him the most extreme of anti-Christians . . . . As the [First World] war [of 1914 – 1918] progressed I [William Jennings Bryan was from 1913 – 1915 the 41st US Secretary of State, under President Wilson] became more and more impressed with the conviction that the German propa-ganda rested upon a materialistic foundation. I se-cured the writings of Nietzsche and found in them a defense, made in advance, of all the cruelties and atrocities practiced by the militarists of Germany. [It didn’t start with the Nazis!] Nietzsche tried to substitute the worship of the “Su-perman” for the worship of God. He not only re-jected the Creator, but he rejected all moral standards. He praised war and eulogized hatred because it led to war. He denounced sympathy and pity as attributes unworthy of man. He believed that the teachings of Christ made degenerates and, logical to the end, he regarded Democracy as the refuge of weaklings. He saw in man nothing but an animal and in that animal the highest virtue he recognized was “The Will to Power”—a will which should know no let or hin-drance, no restraint or limitation . . . . His philosophy, if it is worthy the name of philos-ophy, is the ripened fruit of Darwinism — and a tree is known by its fruit . . . .

The corroding influence of Darwinism has spread as the doctrine has been increasingly accepted. In the American preface to “The Glass of Fashion” these words are to be found: “Darwinism not only justifies the sensualist at the trough and Fashion at her glass; it justifies Prussianism at the cannon’s mouth and Bol-shevism at the prison-door. If Darwinism be true, if Mind is to be driven out of the universe and accident accepted as a sufficient cause for all the majesty and glory of physical nature, then there is no crime or vio-lence, however abominable in its circumstances and however cruel in its execution, which cannot be justi-fied by success, and no triviality, no absurdity of Fash-ion which deserves a censure: more — there is no act of disinterested love and tenderness, no deed of self- sac-rifice and mercy, no aspiration after beauty and excel-lence, for which a single reason can be adduced in logic.” [The Menace of Darwinism, pp. 52 – 54. Emphases and explanatory parentheses added.]>>

Is this one root of what we are seeing? This is worth pondering, too. For, nihilism, surely, is not distilling itself out of thin air and imposing itself on us. END

PS: As it has come up, some BBC numbers, c 2007 when policy on holding the 50 rounds at home changed:

PPS: Here is an illustration on how Israeli Teachers protect their charges in loco parentis:

Are Israeli Teachers armed? Notice two adults, one on obvious overwatch for an outing carrying an instantly recognisable US WW2 issue/era M1 carbine [not a likely equipment for a security guard or a soldier on active duty], the other interacting more closely with the children. And of course we do not know if the second adult has a concealed weapon. This image is of course scoffed at, but it makes the point — armed overwatch, some open, some not.
Comments
Stoneman Douglas students arrested for knives, deputy suspended for sleeping on job http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/20/stoneman-douglas-students-arrested-for-knives-deputy-suspended-for-sleeping-on-job.html
[snip] Two students, identified as Jordan Salter, 18, and Gavin Stricker, 17, were arrested on weapons charges, the Sun Sentinel reported, citing the sheriff's office. [snip] A third Stoneman Douglas student, identified only as a sophomore, allegedly posted photos of himself with a gun in his pants waistband on Snapchat, along with pictures of bullets, the sheriff's office said in a news release. Both photos included threatening messages and called out someone named "Josh," according to officials. Authorities also released the first responders' radio transmissions. Phil Keating reports from Florida. Video Parkland school shooting 911 calls released The student, who faces a misdemeanor charge for the threats, was hospitalized for a mental health evaluation under Florida's Baker Act. Following the arrests, Florida Gov. Rick Scott requested in a letter to Sheriff Scott Israel and Superintendent Robert Runcie that "immediate action be taken to require an armed law enforcement officer to secure every point of entry" of the high school "while students are on campus." [snip]
Secure every entry point, actually arrest students who carry weapons and make threats, and even officially evaluate their mental health (which can be a future barrier to purchasing firearms). Golly. What a novel approach. Who knew???Charles
March 20, 2018
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Charles, we have a clear pattern of across-the-board failure of government, law enforcement, education and social welfare agencies. Where, if you imagine NC was/is the only one in that situation, there is fine Caribbean beach-front property for sale in Siberia for you. That unresponsiveness and the failure to focus on the governance failure issues that have surfaced are telling us something. Something, we need to heed. KF PS: I see where a teacher in CA has been suspended for asking a class discussion: " if schools … are going to allow one group of students to get up during class and walk out to protest on one issue, would they still give the same courtesy to another group of students who wanted to get up and walk out in protest. And I used the example of abortion" https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/california-high-school-teacher-put-on-leave-after-asking-whether-schools-would-allow-students-to-walk-out-to-protest-abortion Abortion is of course highly relevant as all students currently in primary or secondary schools in the US are survivors of a global holocaust that is ongoing at the rate of a million more victims per week. The US daily toll likely exceeds a thousand. There are no grand media 24/7 wall to wall news focus presentations on the annual march for life. The media by and large are complicit in that holocaust, at least as enablers, and so are the education power brokers. It is high time for reformation.kairosfocus
March 19, 2018
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Allan Keith @ 211
It’s not as if a teacher with gun training could ever accidentally injure students.
It's not as if a pyschotic who was recommended for committment would ever deliberately kill students. Some wanted Florida suspect, Nikolas Cruz committed in 2016 http://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/nation-world/some-wanted-florida-suspect-nikolas-cruz-committed-in-2016/507-529628694
[snip] The documents were provided by a psychological assessment service initiated by Cruz's mother called Henderson Behavioral Health. The documents show a high school resource officer who was also a sheriff's deputy and two school counselors recommended in September 2016 that Cruz be committed for mental evaluation under Florida's Baker Act. That law allows for involuntary commitment for mental health examination for at least three days. Such an involuntary commitment would also have been a high obstacle if not a complete barrier to legally obtaining a firearm, such as the AR-15 rifle used in the Stoneman Douglas massacre on Feb. 14, authorities say. There is no evidence Cruz was ever committed. Coincidentally, the school resource officer who recommended that Cruz be "Baker Acted" was Scot Peterson — the same Broward Sheriff's Office deputy who resigned amid accusations he failed to respond to the shooting by staying outside the building where the killings occurred. [snip]
Let me see... hmmmm.... Teacher accidental discharge versus system accidentally enabling 17 to be killed.... I'm gonna go with teacher accidental discharges as the better outcome.Charles
March 18, 2018
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AK, leaving targets soft and trusting the state's policing agencies have SYSTEMATICALLY failed -- if you think Cruz is the only case out there that is gross error (and the failure to prioritise correcting the failures is criminal negligence) -- so, it is time to realise the real choices. One, keep on with propaganda indoctrination centres that turn students into sitting ducks while playing scapegoating agit prop games (the attitude to the abortion holocaust of 800+ millions in 40+ years and mounting at a million more per week being a very good index of what is really going on). Two, withdraw students to home and private schools that will be target hardened. Three, harden the schools and other soft targets through a civilian marshals programme . . . and fix the agit prop games that have been so clearly exposed. Right now, given the obvious indoctrination, I would immediately rule out no. 1. No 3 is dubious, given the evident balance of power -- unless a lot more people get a lot more awake than we are seeing. A sign of that would be plummeting viewership of the agit prop networks calling themselves news networks, especially the one that tried a show trial stunt. KFkairosfocus
March 16, 2018
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U/D: If you needed proof that we are looking at an agit prop, astroturf operation using students as face cards:
https://ijr.com/2018/03/1076385-ohio-student-suspended-refusing-to-leave-classroom/ A high school student in Hilliard, Ohio, didn’t want to pick sides in the contentious gun debate surrounding Wednesday’s “National Walkout,” so he stayed in class instead of joining the largely anti-gun protest or an alternative “study hall.” Hilliard Davidson High School senior Jacob Shoemaker was then reportedly slapped with a suspension. The student argued that divisive politics have no place in America’s schools and he refused to take sides in the debate . . . . Shoemaker's suspension citation was posted online, possibly by a friend, and the story quickly went viral. “Student refused to follow instructions after being warned repeatedly by several administrators,” the letter said. “Student not permitted on school property.” School district spokesperson Stacie Raterman said official policy prohibited school officials from leaving Shoemaker unattended in the building for “security reasons,” 10TV reported.
KFkairosfocus
March 16, 2018
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It’s not as if a teacher with gun training could ever accidentally injure students. https://www.google.ca/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5199328/seaside-high-school-gunAllan Keith
March 15, 2018
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Video -- 27 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNSDSbNwi3Ukairosfocus
March 15, 2018
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Charles, I am not sure the term "crisis actors" is particularly clear in meaning. But it is appropriate to note that in agit prop operations, it is common to find people who can put an attractive or compelling face on a fundamentally corrupt policy. In my native land, such are termed "face cards," and they often are used in false, apparently "grass-roots" movements, astroturfing in the phrase that came up some years ago. Young David Hogg and others simply lack the background to understand subtle policy issues and implications, and do not begin to imagine how they are being used by the utterly cynical and frankly deceitful -- there is a particular responsibility of the media towards truth and fairness. It is significant that other voices from the same school's 3,000 member student body are clearly marginalised by the media. The recent media show trial set up by CNN was ugly, and language slandering US Const. 2nd Amdt advocates and movements as murderers is utterly beyond the pale; especially as there is clear evidence that such weapons save lives and defend property hundreds of thousands of times every year, also serving as a clear red warning line that checks the advance of creeping totalitarian, politically messianistic government pretending to be saviour from all ills. That language of blame projection then becomes utterly revealing as displacement of guilt to scapegoats i/l/o the emerging pattern of failures by relevant authorities, and takes on an even more sinister light when we consider that the single greatest evil of our day is the ongoing holocaust of living posterity in the womb, amounting to in excess of 800 millions in 40+ years, mounting up at another million every week. The blatant inconsistency speaks for itself. It is also a wake-up call to other groups, such as Bible-believing Christians, on the sort of scapegoating we may well face. Indeed, the recent pretence at Calais that imaginary Right wing Christian terrorists contemplate mowing down crowds of Muslims with vehicles itself speaks volumes, as does the abuse of holding and questioning a 22 year old girl under a terrorism statute, trumpeting that tainting incident to the world. (Her crime, it seems, was to respond to blasphemous characterisations of Jesus as a sexual pervert, by performing a social experiment with Allah along similar lines . . . not well advised but patently not terrorism.) KF PS: It seems Ms Southern was literally pushed out the door in the wee hours of the morning, in effect shoved out into the streets. That, too, is a red flag warning on the underlying attitude and mentality of the state agents. What would they have said or done if something untoward happened to her? and indeed, simply by the tainting slander of questioning under a terrorism act and publicising the fact, they have done much the same in a more subtle fashion. Something is deeply, deeply wrong.kairosfocus
March 14, 2018
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kairosfocus @ 206
The patent insincerity and cover up of failure by policing, government and education authorities are the strongest proofs that we could have that it is foolish to try more of the same as solution.
As well as the Soros-funded crisis-actors, Hollywood hypocrits (who glamorize gun-violence and surround themselves with armed body guards) and bused-in truant-marchers, all trying guilt-trip us into reliquishing more rights to those failed authorities.Charles
March 13, 2018
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Allan Keith @ 205
What is the danger of not being able to buy a gun until you are 21?
That at age 21 he will still shoot up a school. You obviously didn't see that as a danger. Waiting until he's 21 hasn't changed a single thing, other than he'll shoot up the class of 2020 instead of 2018. It will still be 17 dead undefended kids at the hands of a guy who should have restrictions placed on him personally, directly. The problem is his mental state, not his age. Making everyone wait until they're 21 won't change Cruz's mental state, or stop him from getting guns at age 21, and won't harden schools, or stop Cruz from shooting them up.
But it can certainly be part of it [a solution to preventing people like Cruz from shooting up schools].
But if it doesn't actually change anything to prevent mentally ill people like Cruz from getting guns and shooting up undefended schools, then nothing is "solved" and it isn't part of a solution. It is only part of a misguided, ineffective, politically-correct gun-control agenda. Cruz buying guns at age 21 instead of age 16-19, as you admit, isn't preventing Cruz from taking lives.Charles
March 13, 2018
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AK, the inconsistencies pile up. A generation ago, there was a push to move adulthood and voting age to 18, the drafting age. Now we have old enough to vote and to face the draft (also, the noose) at 18, but not to buy a drink or a firearm. If the Gov'mint issues you a full auto arm that's okay but if you go buy yourself a semi auto it's not. It seems to me that this is a situation where the obvious and utterly clear have been set aside to push agendas that taken far enough would trigger civil war; likely as in key part as distractors. This is the emblematic, poster-child case for the failings of the policing, social welfare and educational authorities sustained across years. It even implicates those who struck deals to artificially suppress interventions on juvenile crime. Had even a few of the systems worked as advertised, nothing would have happened. Had deputies acted i/l/o their "bounden duties" early intervention would have saved lives. The patent insincerity and cover up of failure by policing, government and education authorities are the strongest proofs that we could have that it is foolish to try more of the same as solution. Especially, when an obvious solution is known to work: harden the targets. KFkairosfocus
March 13, 2018
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Charles,
Moreover, as Cruz’s history shows, he rejected help and was getting worse: two additional years to become an even more psychotic, embittered, and vengeful shooter.
Or not. People can’t drink until they are 21. What is the danger of not being able to buy a gun until you are 21? It definitely isn’t the entire solution. But it can certainly be part of it. After 21, the only restrictions, other than specified gun types, should be criminal record checks and other contraindicated factors (eg, serious mental health problems, drug addiction, Celine Dionne fans).Allan Keith
March 13, 2018
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Allan Keith @ 203:
Two years to possibly obtain help with his mental issues (or get worse). Two years to let his hatred of the school and the people in it to fade (or become worse).
So, no change in preventing Cruz from buying firearms and shooting up a school. A non-solution. Moreover, as Cruz's history shows, he rejected help and was getting worse: two additional years to become an even more psychotic, embittered, and vengeful shooter.Charles
March 13, 2018
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Charles,
What has changed that prevents Nikolas Cruz, now aged 21, from purchasing the same firearms and shooting up his old alma mater?
Two years to possibly obtain help with his mental issues (or get worse). Two years to let his hatred of the school and the people in it to fade (or become worse). Personally, I don't have a problem with the 21 year restriction. As long as this does not prevent those younger to hunt and shoot under supervision.Allan Keith
March 13, 2018
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OK, open question: Nikolas Cruz is reported to have had his 19th birthday in September of 2017. Assume, hypothetically, that the age to buy any firearm was raised to 21 years, as of say 2014. Assume further that it is now 2019, and Nikolas Cruz is 21 years of age. What has changed that prevents Nikolas Cruz, now aged 21, from purchasing the same firearms and shooting up his old alma mater?Charles
March 11, 2018
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F/N: Miami Herald on missed red flags:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article204450699.html The rage and obsession with violence documented by Cruz’s therapists during nearly two years of interactions when he was 15 to 17 years old continued through his school career: Again and again, authorities were warned about the teen’s explosive tendencies and lack of impulse control. Again and again, authorities ignored the warnings. In addition to the troubling behavior Cruz exhibited at the schools he attended — including an incident in which the teen reportedly brought a backpack with bullets to class — law enforcement officers were also alerted that Cruz might be dangerous. The FBI failed to act on two tips about Cruz, one of which involved Cruz posting online that he planned to become a “professional school shooter.” The Broward Sheriff’s Office was also warned about the teen, and had received a report that he “planned to shoot up the school.” Cruz alternated between periods of good behavior and periods of paranoia during which he acted out at school and at home, making fun of his peers, cursing at school staff and making threats, according to notes from his time at Cross Creek. The records obtained by the Herald documented weekly therapy sessions between February 2014 and December of 2015.
There was plenty of opportunity to act in good time that was missed, consistently missed at local and central levels. Why, and how can that be dealt with? KF PS: Going forward, how many other similar cases are out there, where systems and schemes are blocking sound action in good time? Maybe, there is need to draw out the truth and address the patterns that are coming out.kairosfocus
March 10, 2018
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F/N: I find it significant that there seems to be a co-ordinated talk-point pushback much along the lines of oh, facing an armed attacker -- if police failed to act, how much more a teacher with less training would. This fails on several grounds, first it selects part of the chain of failure, leaving off for example that the Broward officers were ORDERED to stand down (a familiar pattern). We now see where SWAT officers from another jurisdiction training nearby rushed to scene and did intervene . . . only to now face disciplinary charges. (BTW, that suggests they knew something was seriously wrong with protocols and intervened on natural duty.) Teachers or administrators in the scene would face a different situation; being in the scene when an incident begins and being equipped and trained to do something about it. (Cf. Correia -- and I suspect they may get even more or at least comparable training on this focal matter, they face one thing, police officers have to be far more broadly trained.) The observation that instant response makes a big difference to casualties and that bursting the shooting fish trapped in a barrel fantasy tends to precipitate surrender or suicide is also relevant. Going beyond, what is driving this pattern of going amok as a culturally conditioned syndrome that is clearly building up as a media-fed wave . . . the fad from Hell itself. KF PS: We must recall the post Columbine shift to, once there are two, go in with what you got, now. Cf Correia on the explanation.kairosfocus
March 10, 2018
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AK, for several days, I had a struggle with web access; in any case, other things have to hold priority. I suggest to you that Charles' clip is right in essential focus [it comes from an expert who has actually taught teachers volunteering to be armed civilian marshals at school, Larry Correia]. Beyond, I note the urgency that seconds count and the real choice is to force brave teachers to offer up their bodies as living shields in a needlessly disarmed target-rich environment. When in fact the bare fact that there will likely be several armed people seconds away will be an effective deterrent. I should note with Correia that many of these people will be veterans or former law enforcement officers. If you go above in thread, you will see what I have drawn out from the Swiss example and what I have suggested for general target hardening. KF PS: Post Columbine, the training has been, once two officers are there, go in. Just as, post 9-11, the principle is to have armed marshals on flights, and to hold the cockpit.kairosfocus
March 9, 2018
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'She was scared of him and I think that killed her': Parkland school shooter's late mother contemplated giving up her parental rights after years of enduring his violent behavior
[snip] The mother once told the family source that Nikolas, dressed in a military uniform and holding an air gun, approached her and said: 'Drop to your knees b—-, I'm going to blow your f—ing brains out.' He later laughed it off and said 'I'm sorry, Mom.' She once told the source on the phone, 'He thinks he's f—ing ISIS.' Despite the outbursts, Lynda still loved her son. 'She wrote things off that should have been addressed sooner,' the source said. Officials said the teen had received treatment at a mental health clinic for a while, but stopped getting help more than a year ago. He was also found to be autistic at age 10, and suffered from attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHA) and depression in his preteen years. Cruz's frequent outbusts included punching holes in walls and throwing things at their upper middle class home in Parkland. He was also seen on Snapchat cutting himself after a breakup. According to police incident reports Cruz in one instance threw chairs, a dog bowl and a drinking glass around the home, and in another he hit his adoptive mother with the plastic hose of a vacuum cleaner. Police would often respond, along with mental health professionals that were aware of Cruz's case history. However, none of the calls ever ended with a conviction on felony charges, and he was never involuntarily held due to mental illness, two points that are flagged in the national gun background checks. During one of dozens of times police responded to the Cruz family home for threats violent outbursts and self destructive behavior was in September of 2016. In that incident report he is described as suffering from mental illness and being 'emotionally handicapped,' and being on behavioral medication. Another report notes, 'He has mentioned in the past that he would like to purchase a firearm.' The emergency calls that the police received from the home included incidents categorized as 'mentally ill person,' 'child/elderly abuse,' 'domestic disturbance' and 'missing person.' [snip]
Let's summarize: threatens to blow his mother's brains out, cuts himself, physically abuses his mother, autistic, ADHA and depression, thinks he's ISIS, quits a mental health clinic, categorized as a "mentally ill person" but never involuntarily held due to mental illness and consequently no flag in his national gun background check, and consequently no block on his purchase of firearms. Nikolas Cruz, poster child for the ACLU's refusal to allow "involuntary commitment" of future mass shooters. [face palm] Why won't the ACLU do more to outlaw the 'mentally ill' purchase of firearms? How many more whackjobs has the ACLU allowed to pass a firearms backgroud check?Charles
March 9, 2018
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http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2013/01/which-states-allow-guns-in-schools.html
The full list of the 18 states that allow guns in schools with certain restrictions, according to NBC News [in 2013], are: Alabama California Connecticut Hawaii Idaho Iowa Kentucky Massachusetts Mississippi Montana New Hampshire New Jersey New York Oregon Rhode Island Texas Utah Wyoming States that are considering whether to allow guns in schools include Alaska, Florida, Indiana, Maine, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, and Tennessee. To learn more about gun laws in your state, check out FindLaw's page on State Gun Control Laws.
https://www.campussafetymagazine.com/university/list-of-states-that-allow-concealed-carry-guns-on-campus/
First, here’s the list of the states that allow the permitted concealed carry of guns on public college and university campuses [in 2017]: Arkansas Colorado Georgia Idaho Kansas Mississippi Oregon Texas Tennessee Utah Wisconsin
https://csgjusticecenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/NCSL-Arming-Staff-Brief.pdf
One policy that states have considered to prevent school violence and improve school safety is arming teachers and other school staff. Prior to 2013 state legislative sessions, the National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL) was not aware of any state laws that specifically authorized teachers or other school staff to carry firearms on K–12 school campuses. In 2013, however, at least 33 states introduced more than 80 bills related to arming teachers and school staff. These bills varied widely from state to state and include the following measures: • Authorizing school districts and schools to create and implement policies to allow arming of teacher and staff at their discretion; • Allowing districts to designate a certain number of teachers and staff to carry concealed firearms in K-12 schools, such as the principal in each school or one teacher per school; • Allowing teachers who already have concealed carry permits or endorsements to carry weapons on private or public school grounds; and • Creating programs and special endorsements that allow teachers and staff to provide school security and carry firearms in K-12 schools. States that introduced legislation in 2013 related to arming teachers or school staff include AK, AL, AR, AZ, CA, CO, CT, FL, GA, IA, IL, KS, MD, ME, MI, MO, MS, NC, ND, NH, NM, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, VA, WA, WI, WV, and WY.
Charles
March 7, 2018
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Allan Keith @ 195
But we are dealing with a situation that we have never dealt with. Armed teachers in a crowded school.
No, it has been dealt with before. Correia cites as an example that Utah has had armed teachers in its schools for several years (as of 2012). Other states have armed teachers in their schools. There is history & experience to draw upon.Charles
March 7, 2018
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Charles@193, I’m not arguing with the stats. But we are dealing with a situation that we have never dealt with. Armed teachers in a crowded school. Even Israel only does that in extremely rare circumstances. But, as I mentioned, I would make an exception for teachers who were previously in the armed forces, with extensive training, and a favourable reference from the army. In general, if we are going to have armed people in the school, make sure that they are there for that reason and heavily trained. And be prepared to pay more taxes to do it.Allan Keith
March 7, 2018
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Allan Keith @ 193 I thought I would make an attempt to offer an answer to the question you posed to kairosfocus. Obviously he will provide his own answer as he sees fit.
But if someone trained in handling this, someone who deals with law enforcement every day, fails to react appropriately, how is a teacher, who has obtained a fraction of the training, going to respond.
Firstly, the hypothetical circumstances are significantly different. The law enforcement person has considerable choice about when to enter, where to enter, what cover to choose, possibly even the element of surprise. The teacher, OTOH is under attack, possibly pinned down, focus scattered on protecting students as well as themselves. Now you might say the teacher has no advantages and thus ought not to be armed. But that is precisely why they should be armed, if they are willing to be armed. The teacher (and their students) is under attack with no means of defense for at least the first few minutes. It is precisely that defenselessness at a moment of no alternatives, no choice, when it is kill or be killed, they should be allowed to be armed if they wish. Secondly, in the specific case of Parkland, the law enforcement did not come to the defense of the teachers or students for several minutes. It wasn't "failing to react appropriately", it was failing to do the job for which they were hired and charged. Not only by the "on site" school resource officer, but by his backup when they arrived. What use is an on-site resource officer who doesn't go in. Why bother having them on-site if all they're going to do is phone the office. People in the school were already phoning in the attack. Thirdly, considering that whether by negligence, error, or travel delays, law enforcement permitted Cruz several minutes in which he killed 17 people. How could a willingly armed teacher do worse? Lastly, I would point you to a post by kairosfocus @ 146 which you ought to read in its entirety (as well as the source link which has much more). But I would highlight:
No. Hear me out. The single best way to respond to a mass shooter is with an immediate, violent response. The vast majority of the time, as soon as a mass shooter meets serious resistance, it bursts their fantasy world bubble. Then they kill themselves or surrender. This has happened over and over again. [snip] The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by law enforcement: 14. The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by civilians: 2.5. The reason is simple. The armed civilians are there when it started. The teachers are there already. The school staff is there already. Their reaction time is measured in seconds, not minutes. They can serve as your immediate violent response. Best case scenario, they engage and stop the attacker, or it bursts his fantasy bubble and he commits suicide. Worst case scenario, the armed staff provides a distraction, and while he’s concentrating on killing them, he’s not killing more children. [snip]
In that post and at the source link, Correia goes into more detail about training teachers who want to be armed.Charles
March 7, 2018
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Kairosfocus@192, and this from someone who has, supposedly, received extensive training on how to respond to crisis situations. I hate to judge the actions of others in this type of situation because nobody knows how they would respond until they find themselves in that situation. Except, of course, for Trump, who would have run in unarmed to confront the shooter. :). But if someone trained in handling this, someone who deals with law enforcement every day, fails to react appropriately, how is a teacher, who has obtained a fraction of the training, going to respond. I am not opposed to armed security in schools, but the idea of arming teachers scares me. However, I can see an exception to this for teachers who were in the armed forces and received extensive training.Allan Keith
March 7, 2018
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U/D: Fox news: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/05/broward-sheriffs-captain-who-gave-initial-order-to-stage-not-enter-stoneman-douglas-is-idd.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
The Broward County Sheriff’s Office has identified to Fox News the captain who, according to sources, directed responding deputies and units to “stage” or form a “perimeter” outside Stoneman Douglas High School, instead of rushing immediately into the building, as the mass shooting unfolded there. Multiple law enforcement and official sources said the commands in the initial moments after Nikolas Cruz allegedly opened fire would go against all training which instructs first responders to “go, go, go” until the shooter is neutralized. As law enforcement arrived, the shooter’s identity and exact location were still unknown. Multiple sources told Fox News that Captain Jan Jordan was the commanding officer on scene. In an email responding to Fox News’ request for information, a BSO spokesperson wrote, “Capt. Jordan’s radio call sign is 17S1.” The massacre on February 14 killed 17 people and wounded 16 others. Sources told Fox News it was Jordan giving the commands because they were recorded on the dispatch logs coming from Jordan’s radio insignia 17S1, or “Seventeen Sierra One.”
This speaks saddening volumes. KFkairosfocus
March 7, 2018
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Here again is the hypocrisy of the Left. They demand gun safety until they find out that gun safety is possible without banning guns: Facebook, Twitter, Etc, are Prohibiting Ads for a New Form of Gun Safety that Could Benefit Parents and Teachers
[snip] The company is called Zore, and the gun safety product they have created is pretty ingenious. Instead of putting your gun in a safe or lock box, their product “Zore-X” allows you to attach a locking mechanism to the firearm via the chamber. In order to load a bullet, all you need to do is turn the dial on the mechanism left and right to the specific amount of clicks it take to unlock it. There are no numbers, just the clicks. This allows you to open your gun in the dark, or out of site. Once the mechanism is unlocked, chamber a round like you would normally, and the mechanism will fall away without fuss. [snip] According to Zore, Facebook, YouTube, and Outbrain all returned written statements that said the video violated its policies, with only Outbrain noting that it’s a “complicated field, even though it’s a safety device.” Twitter, however, verbally told Zore flat out that they wouldn’t even open an ad account for the company to start with. This unwillingness to help promote a form of gun safety is very telling. While Zore has created a device that allows for safety, it also allows for the gun to be easily accessible and ready to use a moment’s notice. For many who support the restriction and suppression of firearms, as many leftist organizations do, Zore makes things more complicated for them despite the fact that it makes guns safer. The idea of “gun safety” for them is to have it out of site, out of mind, and behind thick metal doors. [snip] “We’ve received many inquiries over the last few weeks from teachers and school staff who are interested in ZORE as a solution to keep their firearms secure but accessible on campus,” Escojido told RedState. [snip]
Charles
March 7, 2018
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Here you go: the sound of crickets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKmRkS1os7k It goes on and on and on… this way for ten hours. No, I haven’t listened to the whole thing.john_a_designer
March 6, 2018
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Truth Will Set You Free @ 149
Fascinating statistics. I am sure the a/mat leftists (not all a/mats are leftists) will try their best to debunk your analysis. They will fail.
It would appear they have given up. But then again their failure was baked into the cake. Their position was unsupportable to begin with, and their method was mostly virtue signalling and hand wringing. Very little hard evidence, and what there was, was poorly thought through. I would have replied sooner, but I didn't want to "telegraph" anything to Molson Bleu.Charles
March 6, 2018
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Allan Keith @ 187
However, your last couple posts are so decisive that all I expect to hear from Molson in response is the chirping of crickets.
Yes. It takes a rare individual to climb out of a hole as deep as he dug himself into. What is sad (pathetic?) is he'll keep running his same schtick on someone else on some other forum, or even this forum on some other thread. It's not that he doesn't learn, it's that his political agenda is unaltered and indifferent to truth. FWIW, I don't argue with people like Molson Bleu because I expect to persuade them, no. I argue with Molson to demonstrate to lurkers how vacuous are his arguments, how false are his statistics, and how cynical he is for using deaths as props.Charles
March 6, 2018
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Charles, interesting discussion between yourself and Molson Bleu. However, your last couple posts are so decisive that all I expect to hear from Molson in response is the chirping of crickets.Allan Keith
March 6, 2018
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