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The cybernetic contradiction of Darwinism

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In automatic control theory “homeostasis” is defined as the property of a system in which variables are regulated so that internal conditions remain stable and relatively constant. Homeostasis is a fundamental concept in biology because is what allows the life of organisms. In fact, it maintains the stability of the organisms in response to changes in external conditions. The concept of homeostasis is tied to the strictly correlation and interdependence of all systems in a body, i.e. its functional unity. Organisms can live and survive only because are giant cybernetic hierarchical hologramatic macro-systems.

Donald Johnson defines cybernetics as:

… the interdisciplinary study of control systems with feedback. (Programming of Life, Big Mac Publishers 2010)

While Norbert Wiener, about homeostasis, writes:

In the process called homeostasis there is a large set of cases where feedback is applied to physiological phenomena and is absolutely necessary to the continuation of life. […] For our internal organization we must have a large series of automatic controls, and all a series of mechanisms that could sustain the working of a large chemical industrial plant: these are what we call homeostatic mechanisms. (Cybernetics, MIT Press 1961)

As known, basically there are two kinds of feedback: positive and negative. What kind is used in the organisms? The regulation of a single physiological process (example: blood pressure) needs the collaboration of many correlated homeostatic processes with negative feedback. Biological homeostasis necessarily involves countless processes using negative feedback loops. A negative feedback happens when the results of a change act to reduce or counteract it (negative loop gain). Conversely, a positive feedback happens when the results of a change act to increase or ease the change (positive loop gain). When in the organisms, despite all and caused by illness or injury, a positive feedback happens, this produces a risky and uncontrolled ever increasing deviance, leading to disequilibrium and eventually to death. Organisms defend themselves from changes, thanks to an all-pervading homeostatic system that cybernetically self-regulates.

Since regulation and control make sense only in the perspective of what a system must do and what values/constraints its parameters must meet, they are essentially teleological. Regulation, control and guide point to design, not at all to what is unguided as Darwinian evolution. Homeostasis requires a sensor to detect changes, an effector that is able to decrease those changes and a negative feedback loop between the two. These three things necessarily need to be correlated together by an higher direction with a goal, which only design can provide.

That said, a first question to Darwinists comes to mind: if homeostasis grants the stability of organisms, and the organisms are plenty of negative feedback systems counteracting changes, how can Darwinian evolution (= macro changes of organisms) happen in the first place?

But there is another worse question for Darwinists: given evolution wants to change organisms, why evolution created so many negative feedback systems that counteract changes? Why evolution, which is by definition macro variation, created homeostasis, which is robust maintenance of the status quo?

Darwinian evolution should prefer and create systems with positive feedback. In fact, when the loop gain is positive that creates divergence from equilibrium. And what is evolution but “divergence from equilibrium”? Given the pretension of unguided evolution is to have created 500 million extremely different species, evolution should prefer and construct what diversifies, not what maintains equal. Negative feedbacks serve to stabilize systems, not to change them. Homeostatic mechanisms give organisms a strong tendency toward stasis, not toward evolution. Homeostatic mechanisms counter evolution.

Darwin’s feedbacks should be of positive kind and instead organisms are filled with negative feedback systems. Another day, another contradiction of Darwinism. This clear Darwinian contradiction is similar to the contradiction I dealt with about the repair systems in this previous post.

We know in advance what evolutionists object to this reasoning: evolution has nothing to do with homeostatic feedback systems, because they can coexist with evolution, and evolution works at the genetic level, and evolution can create X and non X in the same time, and…

Mind you, how fixity and stability in all major workings of organisms (granted by homeostasis) could be consistent with large variability and diversification (needed by macroevolution)? Evolution “works” at the genetic level but must produce phenotypic results, and at this level we see homeostasis, i.e. stasis = non evolution.

We can add the homeostatic feedback systems to the list of contradictions of Darwinism. This list is already long but it will still lengthen, because – as I like to repeat – when a thing is false, is false from all points of view. We can patiently sit down on the river side to wait for the corpse of this absurd Darwin’s theory to finally sink under the weight of its own contradictions.

Comments
F/N: At this stage it should be plain that the Internet character "Lincoln Phipps" is little more than a sock-puppet and/or Troll, probably coming from ATBC and/or Anti-Evo, or worse Darwinist fever swamps, maybe with a veneer of TSZ (which serves as a front operation for the more blatant fever swamps). The web character is probably composite, and is intended only to try to provoke exchanges that can be used elsewhere to twist design supporters into strawman caricatures, stereotypes and scapegoats. In short, we are here clearly dealing with typical agit-prop tactics, similar to Patrick May's abuse of the already existing Web monicker, Mathgrrl. Do not expect from such reasonableness or openness to fact, much less to duties of care to truth, fairness and innocent reputation. Don't feed the troll, expose it. KFkairosfocus
January 14, 2014
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Better link: Smithsonian Controversy – Richard Sternberg http://www.richardsternberg.org/smithsonian.phpbornagain77
January 14, 2014
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Lincoln Phipps, actually I am very happy to cite that particular paper since that particular paper was instrumental in showing how dogmatic and 'un-openminded' atheists are in their thinking and actions: podcast - Richard Sternberg and Douglas Axe of Biologic Institute spoke with Michael Medved about the cruel career consequences for their support giving intelligent design a fair hearing. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/01/live_from_disco081061.html Get Expelled - Richard Sternberg - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HS03sGrehI Since Darwinists could not refute the paper with any empirical evidence (indeed the situation has only gotten worse for them in that regards), they did everything they could to discredit the integrity of Sternberg as a scientist. Here is Sternberg's side: "Expelled Exposed" Exposed: Your One-Stop Rebuttal to Attacks on the Documentary Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed http://www.ncseexposed.org/bornagain77
January 14, 2014
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@Lincoln Phipps #27
retracted paper – “Stephen C. Meyer, “The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories,” Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, 117(2):213-239 (2004)”
Mayer never retracted (take back) the paper. The journal publisher, BSW, merely criticized later the decision of the editor Sternberg for allowing it through the peer review and into the journal. The paper was published after passing the peer review by qualified referees. Where is the term retraction anywhere in the BSW's subsequent critique?nightlight
January 14, 2014
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bornagain77, Pauli write to Bohr in early 1955 but the codon structure of DNA wasn't know until 1959 which was 4 years after Pauli has written to Bohr and 4 years after Pauli had died. Being critical of biologists not being able to pin a probability onto something which they did not understand what was being randomised is a valid criticism at that time in that it tells the biologists what need to be examined but it is hardly relevant today. Pauli is now part of the history of science.Lincoln Phipps
January 14, 2014
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bornagain77, I see you cite a retracted paper - "Stephen C. Meyer, “The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories,” Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, 117(2):213-239 (2004)" It's been nearly 10 years now - isn't it time that ID proponents stopped citing this retracted paper ? or is the argument from authority of it being in the Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington even for a few days just too much to resist ?Lincoln Phipps
January 14, 2014
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NetResearchGuy, who says Evolution is true ? Evolution is a fact and the theory of evolution best explains the fact. The process of science is not like mathematics whereby a proof is obtained but science asymptomatically approaches the truth. The pool of knowledge grows over time. It's odd because this growth in knowledge seems to be seen as a weakness by people like you. ID and creationists alike are ever the critics; new discoveries are critiqued as "Told you so" or "Darwinist propaganda". You are so full of your own certainty.Lincoln Phipps
January 14, 2014
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LP: It seems to be your main thesis that evolution is true because eventually all the gaps will be filled with naturalistic explanations discovered by science. The problem with that assumption is it implies new scientific discoveries don't raise more unanswered questions than they solve. In other words it implies that gaps are being closed faster than new gaps are being opened, and that science is converging on proving evolution rather than disproving it. What I mean by that is my perception is that scientifically explaining evolution has only grown more difficult with time, and continues to do so. For example, early scientists thought life was simply generic protoplasm in a membrane. The discovery of DNA and complex cellular machinery did not make the problem of OOL become easier, it made it infinitely harder. The development of the math of population genetics shows that mutation fixation rates are far too slow (by a factor of 100 in the case of human evolution, for instance), to accomplish known genomic differences between man and his alleged recent relatives. Any discovery that shows less DNA is "junk" makes evolution harder. I can go on and on: The failure of paleontology to identify even a single example of gradualism in the fossil record. The abject failure of OOL research. The failure of decades of experimental evolution research to generate more than a handful of bits of information. What evolutionists do is paper over the failures. Stuff that doesn't match the tree? Convergent evolution! OOL mathematically impossible? Multiverses! No gradualism? Punctuated equilibrium! Functional gaps in protein sequence space? Random drift will cross them! Or they don't exist. Selection too strong leads to local fitness peaks? Selection is really weak or even shuts down when it needs to! Selection too weak leads to slow population change? Selection is also really strong and powerful when it needs to be! Or the environment magically guided the process by changing in just the right way at the right time, countless times (basically your theory)! Again, I could go on... Besides papering over failures, the tiniest of apparent successes are magnified in importance way beyond what is reasonable. Based on the arguments you make, I get the feeling that you have no idea about the arguments that ID actually makes, and choose to argue against a straw man version instead. You don't directly address anyone's points and simply repeat variations of the generic materialist party line. --NetResearchGuy/ManNetResearchGuy
January 13, 2014
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One of the biggest examples of BA's post that we've seen is the rescue device of convergent evolution. When evidence began to disassemble the NDE tree of life, they invented the concept of convergent evolution. What would be an argument against NDE suddenly, without any merit, becomes evidence FOR NDE.TSErik
January 13, 2014
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Mr. Phipps, the shenanigans you are now pulling with this Tree of Life bit, is one of the reasons why Darwinism is not even considered science. As you have now demonstrated, there simply is no way in which to rigidly, i.e. 'scientifically', falsify Darwinism:
Shark Proteins Contradict the Standard Phylogeny of Vertebrates - Casey Luskin - January 6, 2014 Excerpt: there's almost no dataset that can contradict (falsify) common descent. Every time you find that one trait predicts one phylogeny, and another trait predicts a conflicting phylogeny, you can effect a reconciliation by invoking at will more evolutionary steps of convergent loss or gain of traits, or invoking a host of other ad hoc explanations. In a worst case scenario, if genes were distributed in the most un-treelike manner imaginable, I suppose you could take all the known genes present in the most recent presumed common ancestor of that group, and then simply invoke losses (and gains) of genes to reconcile the observed distribution with a tree. - http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/01/shark_proteins_080781.html How to Play the Gene Evolution Game – Casey Luskin – Feb. 2010 http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/02/how_to_play_the_gene_evolution032141.html
Darwinists utilize all sorts of what are termed 'rescue devices' to prevent Darwinism from ever being falsified. Here is how neo-Darwinian evolution avoids falsification from the fossil record;
Seeing Ghosts in the Bushes (Part 2): How Is Common Descent Tested? – Paul Nelson – Feb. 2010 Excerpt: Fig. 6. Multiple possible ad hoc or auxiliary hypotheses are available to explain lack of congruence between the fossil record and cladistic predictions. These may be employed singly or in combination. Common descent (CD) is thus protected from observational challenge. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/02/seeing_ghosts_in_the_bushes_pa031061.html
Here is how Darwinian evolutionists avoid falsification from the biogeographical data of finding numerous and highly similar species in widely separated locations:
The Case of the Mysterious Hoatzin: Biogeography Fails Neo-Darwinism Again – Casey Luskin – November 5, 2011 Excerpt: If two similar species separated by thousands of kilometers across oceans cannot challenge common descent, what biogeographical data can? The way evolutionists treat it, there is virtually no biogeographical data that can challenge common descent even in principle. If that’s the case, then how can biogeography be said to support common descent in the first place? http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/11/the_case_of_the_mysterious_hoa052571.html
etc.. etc.. etc.. the main reason that Darwinists are able to get away with such shenanigans with the evidence, and never have their theory threatened with falsification by the evidence, is that Darwinism has no rigid mathematical foundation, as the other hard sciences do, in order to falsify it as a 'science' in the first place!
“For many years I have thought that it is a mathematical scandal that we do not have a proof that Darwinian evolution works.” Gregory Chaitin Oxford University Seeks Mathemagician — May 5th, 2011 by Douglas Axe Excerpt: Grand theories in physics are usually expressed in mathematics. Newton’s mechanics and Einstein’s theory of special relativity are essentially equations. Words are needed only to interpret the terms. Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection has obstinately remained in words since 1859. … http://biologicinstitute.org/2011/05/05/oxford-university-seeks-mathemagician/ “On the other hand, I disagree that Darwin’s theory is as `solid as any explanation in science.; Disagree? I regard the claim as preposterous. Quantum electrodynamics is accurate to thirteen or so decimal places; so, too, general relativity. A leaf trembling in the wrong way would suffice to shatter either theory. What can Darwinian theory offer in comparison?” (Berlinski, D., “A Scientific Scandal?: David Berlinski & Critics,” Commentary, July 8, 2003) Macroevolution, microevolution and chemistry: the devil is in the details – Dr. V. J. Torley – February 27, 2013 Excerpt: After all, mathematics, scientific laws and observed processes are supposed to form the basis of all scientific explanation. If none of these provides support for Darwinian macroevolution, then why on earth should we accept it? Indeed, why does macroevolution belong in the province of science at all, if its scientific basis cannot be demonstrated? per UD
Whereas nobody can seem to come up with a rigid demarcation criteria for Darwinism, Intelligent Design (ID) does not suffer from such a lack of mathematical rigor:
Evolutionary Informatics Lab – Main Publications http://evoinfo.org/publications/
,, the empirical falsification criteria of ID is much easier to understand than the math is, and is as such:
"Orr maintains that the theory of intelligent design is not falsifiable. He’s wrong. To falsify design theory a scientist need only experimentally demonstrate that a bacterial flagellum, or any other comparably complex system, could arise by natural selection. If that happened I would conclude that neither flagella nor any system of similar or lesser complexity had to have been designed. In short, biochemical design would be neatly disproved." - Dr Behe in 1997 Michael Behe on Falsifying Intelligent Design – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8jXXJN4o_A
Well, do neo-Darwinists have evidence of even one molecular machine arising by Darwinian processes?,,, I have yet to see a single novel protein arise by neo-Darwinian processes much less a entire molecular machine! Without such a demonstration and still their dogmatic insistence that Darwinism is true, then as far as I can tell, the actual demarcation threshold for believing neo-Darwinism is true is this:
Darwinism Not Proved Absolutely Impossible Therefore Its True – video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/10285716/
bornagain77
January 13, 2014
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Lincoln Phipps- Seeing that you cannot reference the alleged theory of evolution it is clear that there isn't any strawman version as there isn't any real version.Joe
January 13, 2014
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What do you have to say about BA's scandalous claim of your 'assuming the conclusion into the evidence?' Show us he's wrong.Axel
January 13, 2014
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How about you rebut bornagain's points, chapter and verse, as he has laid it out for you in #11. He even had the temerity to state: 'The fact is that you have no evidence whatsoever that the differences we see in genomes can be produced by the mechanism you propose!' Are you not going to annihilate his arguments with your trove of empirical evidence'?Axel
January 13, 2014
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Lincoln Phipps so now you claim that if we able to reconstruct a tree of life it would support design??? "A perfectly organised tree of life with clearly delineated differences would suggest design." So, let me get this straight, you now believe that a tree of life would equal design and since we can find no tree of life then that equals Darwin??? Well thanks for clearing that up! :) Okie Dokie guys, Mr. Phipps has settled it once and for all with his stellar wikipedia reference. We can all go home now! No tree of life equals Darwin, And ocean front property can be had in Arizona! :) George Strait - "Ocean Front Property" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNlMzNUDM8sbornagain77
January 13, 2014
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Niwrad’s argument makes sense: the conservative power of homeostasis interferes with the concept of evolutionary change. An observation: The concept of homeostasis presupposes a stable definable equilibrium. However in reality there is no such thing. E.g the equilibrium before and during mitosis is totally different. In fact it is safe to say that during the course of its life a cell is never the same. The same can be said for an organism. Hence “equilibrium” is constantly shifting. This means that in order to function homeostasis must be highly flexible and must be controlled from above – from the level of the cell as a whole. It follows that there is no bottom-up explanation for homeostasis.Box
January 13, 2014
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cantor, so you are a clone of your parents ? Are you denying that you are different from your grandparents ? Go back even further and science can tell where your ancestors came from, https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/ Evolution is change in alleles in a population. Live with it. Gap, Your Head Gaps in your Head. etc etc etcLincoln Phipps
January 13, 2014
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bornagain77 the tree of life pre-dates Darwin and the idea of kinds (or species) is more religious than science. Why ? well no one knows what differentiates two kinds (or species) and from an evolution point of view of genes the differences will be both what genes are in the genome and the expression of genes. The so-called Tree of Life is a concept that leads a lot of people astray and certain leads ID and creation apologists astray when they think they have got some killer anti-Evolution argument. Think of any organism that is alive today as a collection of genes and how they are expressed. Each of these genes will have an ancestral gene but there is no reason why these should be a job lot with all the other genes of the organism. So it's quite reasonable that genes in humans are found in 'roos. Basically read the limitations, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phylogenetic_tree#Limitations ...and then understand that you are constructing a strawman if you expect a perfectly organised Tree Of Life. The limitations actually suggest the happenstance of nature rather than a designer (and especially rather than a God-like designer that would make things perfect). A perfectly organised tree of life with clearly delineated differences would suggest design. It's not and even your references say it's a mess.Lincoln Phipps
January 13, 2014
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Phipps, You have presented a strawman version of evolution that says that it consists of small changes accreting into large changes. You have no idea how this could happen. Yup it’s just another gap in which you insert Darwin. Gap... Darwin... Darwin of the Gaps. Again.cantor
January 13, 2014
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Lincoln Phipps, contrary to what you may believe, ID uses the same scientific method of inferring from presently acting cause known to produce the effect in question,,
Stephen Meyer - The Scientific Basis Of Intelligent Design - video https://vimeo.com/32148403 Our experience-based knowledge of information-flow confirms that systems with large amounts of specified complexity (especially codes and languages) invariably originate from an intelligent source -- from a mind or personal agent. (Stephen C. Meyer, "The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories," Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington, 117(2):213-239 (2004).)
Thus if you are going to argue that ID is using a 'God of the Gaps' of argument, then you will, since ID more effectively using the same method of inference that Darwinism does, have to concede that Darwinism uses a 'randomness of the Gaps' to fill in the enormous chasms in its explanatory power. Indeed, it has been observed by no less than the noted physicist Wolfgang Pauli that the word ‘random chance’, as used by Biologists/Darwinists, is synonymous with the word ‘miracle’:
Nobel Prize-Winning Physicist Wolfgang Pauli on the Empirical Problems with Neo-Darwinism – Casey Luskin – February 27, 2012 Excerpt: While they (Darwinian Biologists) pretend to stay in this way completely ‘scientific’ and ‘rational,’ they become actually very irrational, particularly because they use the word ‘chance’, not any longer combined with estimations of a mathematically defined probability, in its application to very rare single events more or less synonymous with the old word ‘miracle.’” Wolfgang Pauli (pp. 27-28) - http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/02/nobel_prize-win056771.html
Talbott humorously reflects on the situation with Darwinists here:
Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness – Talbott – Fall 2011 Excerpt: In the case of evolution, I picture Dennett and Dawkins filling the blackboard with their vivid descriptions of living, highly regulated, coordinated, integrated, and intensely meaningful biological processes, and then inserting a small, mysterious gap in the middle, along with the words, “Here something random occurs.” This “something random” looks every bit as wishful as the appeal to a miracle. It is the central miracle in a gospel of meaninglessness, a “Randomness of the gaps,” demanding an extraordinarily blind faith. At the very least, we have a right to ask, “Can you be a little more explicit here?” http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/evolution-and-the-illusion-of-randomness
Also of related interest:
Scientific American: Evolution "To some extent, it just happens" - July 2013 "Complexity, they say, is not purely the result of millions of years of fine-tuning through natural selection—the process that Richard Dawkins famously dubbed “the blind watchmaker.” To some extent, it just happens. Biologists and philosophers have pondered the evolution of complexity for decades, but according to Daniel W. McShea, a paleobiologist at Duke University, they have been hobbled by vague definitions. “It’s not just that they don’t know how to put a number on it. They don’t know what they mean by the word,” McShea says." https://uncommondescent.com/evolution/scientific-american-studying-how-organisms-evolve-elaborate-structures-without-darwinian-selection/
i.e. Can you be a little more explicit here Mr. Phipps?bornagain77
January 13, 2014
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Lincoln Phipps
niwrad has presented a strawman version of evolution that says that it consists of large changes.
For you, between ameba - worse, your ancestor of ameba - and whales are there small differences?niwrad
January 13, 2014
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Joe, no niwrad has presented a strawman version of evolution that says that it consists of large changes. Not only does niwrad not know exactly how large these changes are they have no idea what subset of genome changes are needed to divide living things into "species". That is understandable as no one knows ! Yup it's just another gap in which ID inserts a designer (lets be honest people and call it God). Gap.. god.... God of the Gaps. Again.Lincoln Phipps
January 13, 2014
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Lincoln Phipps, when you were shown that you have no substantiating evidence for your neo-Darwinian claims, you disingenuously stated:
"It isn’t anything unusual in comparing genomes to show that changes add to changes. It works for humans and animal DNA."
Actually, without a demonstration that your proposed mechanism, random variation and natural selection, is up to the task you claim for it, then comparing genome similarity/dissimilarity, and claiming that random variation and natural selection produced those differences in those genomes, is called assuming your conclusion into the evidence beforehand. The fact is that you have no evidence whatsoever that the differences we see in genomes can be produced by the mechanism you propose! Moreover, as if that was not crushing enough against you preferred materialistic worldview, and contrary to what you may believe, genome sequencing is nearly as conducive to Darwinian claims as you, and many other Darwinists, seem to think it is. For instance:
Logged Out - Scientists Can't Find Darwin's "Tree of Life" Anywhere in Nature by Casey Luskin - Winter 2013 Excerpt: the record shows that major groups of animals appeared abruptly, without direct evolutionary precursors. Because biogeography and fossils have failed to bolster common descent, many evolutionary scientists have turned to molecules—the nucleotide and amino acid sequences of genes and proteins—to establish a phylogenetic tree of life showing the evolutionary relationships between all living organisms.,,, Many papers have noted the prevalence of contradictory molecule-based phylogenetic trees. For instance: • A 1998 paper in Genome Research observed that "different proteins generate different phylogenetic tree[s]."6 • A 2009 paper in Trends in Ecology and Evolution acknowledged that "evolutionary trees from different genes often have conflicting branching patterns."7 • A 2013 paper in Trends in Genetics reported that "the more we learn about genomes the less tree-like we find their evolutionary history to be."8 Perhaps the most candid discussion of the problem came in a 2009 review article in New Scientist titled "Why Darwin Was Wrong about the Tree of Life."9 The author quoted researcher Eric Bapteste explaining that "the holy grail was to build a tree of life," but "today that project lies in tatters, torn to pieces by an onslaught of negative evidence." According to the article, "many biologists now argue that the tree concept is obsolete and needs to be discarded.",,, Syvanen succinctly summarized the problem: "We've just annihilated the tree of life. It's not a tree any more, it's a different topology entirely. What would Darwin have made of that?" ,,, "battles between molecules and morphology are being fought across the entire tree of life," leaving readers with a stark assessment: "Evolutionary trees constructed by studying biological molecules often don't resemble those drawn up from morphology."10,,, A 2012 paper noted that "phylogenetic conflict is common, and [is] frequently the norm rather than the exception," since "incongruence between phylogenies derived from morphological versus molecular analyses, and between trees based on different subsets of molecular sequences has become pervasive as datasets have expanded rapidly in both characters and species."12,,, http://www.salvomag.com/new/articles/salvo27/logged-out.php Mechanisms and dynamics of orphan gene emergence in insect genomes - January 2013 Excerpt: Orphans are an enigmatic portion of the genome since their origin and function are mostly unknown and they typically make up 10 to 30% of all genes in a genome. http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/01/24/gbe.evt009.full.pdf+html Phylogeny: Rewriting evolution - Tiny molecules called microRNAs are tearing apart traditional ideas about the animal family tree. - Elie Dolgin - 27 June 2012 Excerpt: “I've looked at thousands of microRNA genes, and I can't find a single example that would support the traditional tree,” he says. "...they give a totally different tree from what everyone else wants.” (Phylogeny: Rewriting evolution, Nature 486,460–462, 28 June 2012) (molecular palaeobiologist - Kevin Peterson) Mark Springer, (a molecular phylogeneticist working in DNA states),,, “There have to be other explanations,” he says. Peterson and his team are now going back to mammalian genomes to investigate why DNA and microRNAs give such different evolutionary trajectories. “What we know at this stage is that we do have a very serious incongruence,” says Davide Pisani, a phylogeneticist at the National University of Ireland in Maynooth, who is collaborating on the project. “It looks like either the mammal microRNAs evolved in a totally different way or the traditional topology is wrong. per Nature micro-RNAs and Non-Falsifiable Phylogenetic Trees - (Excellent Research) - lifepsy video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv-i4pY6_MU
And this disconcordance of molecular sequences to Darwinian presuppositions goes all the way to the supposed crown jewel of genome sequencing to, i.e. Human/Chimp sequence comparisons:
Human Origins(?) by Brian Thomas, M.S. - December 20, 2013 Excerpt: Three major pillars supporting a human-chimp link crashed in 2013. 1. Genetic similarity (70% instead of 98%) 2. beta-globin pseudogene (functional instead of leftover junk) 3. Chromosome 2 fusion site (encodes a functional feature within an important gene instead of a being a fusion site) All three key genetic pillars of human evolution (for Darwinists) turned out to be specious—overstatements based on ignorance of genetic function. http://www.icr.org/article/7867/ Using ENCODE Data for Human-Chimp DNA Comparisons by Jeffrey Tomkins, Ph.D.* Excerpt: In 2013, I published a research paper in which chimpanzee chromosomes were sequentially sliced into different sets of small pieces so that the algorithm could optimally compare them to human chromosomes. In so doing, I found that the chimpanzee genome was only about 70 percent similar to the human genome overall.7 More research is needed to show specifically how the new wealth of publicly available ENCODE data can be used beyond basic studies of human-chimp DNA similarity—incorporating lincRNAs and vlincRNAs to further highlight human uniqueness. Research using three large datasets produced by the ENCODE project is now underway at ICR for the purpose of addressing these questions. In a concurrent study, I am also comparing human protein-coding regions to those in chimpanzees. In combination, these new analyses will provide a much more detailed picture of what makes humans unique and will further demonstrate we are not evolved apes. http://www.icr.org/article/7856/ Gene Regulation Differences Between Humans, Chimpanzees Very Complex - Oct. 17, 2013 Excerpt: Although humans and chimpanzees share,, similar genomes (70% per Tomkins), previous studies have shown that the species evolved major differences in mRNA expression levels.,,, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131017144632.htm Evolution by Splicing - Comparing gene transcripts from different species reveals surprising splicing diversity. - Ruth Williams - December 20, 2012 Excerpt: A major question in vertebrate evolutionary biology is “how do physical and behavioral differences arise if we have a very similar set of genes to that of the mouse, chicken, or frog?”,,, A commonly discussed mechanism was variable levels of gene expression, but both Blencowe and Chris Burge,,, found that gene expression is relatively conserved among species. On the other hand, the papers show that most alternative splicing events differ widely between even closely related species. “The alternative splicing patterns are very different even between humans and chimpanzees,” said Blencowe.,,, http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view%2FarticleNo%2F33782%2Ftitle%2FEvolution-by-Splicing%2F A Listener's Guide to the Meyer-Marshall Debate: Focus on the Origin of Information Question -Casey Luskin - December 4, 2013 Excerpt: "There is always an observable consequence if a dGRN (developmental gene regulatory network) subcircuit is interrupted. Since these consequences are always catastrophically bad, flexibility is minimal, and since the subcircuits are all interconnected, the whole network partakes of the quality that there is only one way for things to work. And indeed the embryos of each species develop in only one way." - Eric Davidson http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/12/a_listeners_gui079811.html
supplemental note:
Kangaroo genes close to humans Excerpt: Australia's kangaroos are genetically similar to humans,,, "There are a few differences, we have a few more of this, a few less of that, but they are the same genes and a lot of them are in the same order," ,,,"We thought they'd be completely scrambled, but they're not. There is great chunks of the human genome which is sitting right there in the kangaroo genome," http://www.reuters.com/article/science%20News/idUSTRE4AH1P020081118
Thus Mr. Phipps not only do you not have any observational evidence demonstrating that your preferred scenario, i.e. neo-Darwinism, is plausible, but the the evidence you though you had, genome sequencing, has fallen completely apart on you.,,, For you this is kind of like, if you were a soldier, waking up the morning of a battle and finding out that all your gun power you thought you had ready, is worthless because it is soaking wet.bornagain77
January 13, 2014
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Neil Rickert Where positive feedback is used in organisms, for organizational purpose? Positive feedback is divergent from the norm, it tends to destroy functionality. Positive feedbacks happen unfortunately in diseases. Any organism tries to avoid and correct these degenerative loop situations by all means at its disposal.niwrad
January 13, 2014
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As known, basically there are two kinds of feedback: positive and negative. What kind is used in the organisms?
I'm not a biologist. For that matter, I am not a Darwinist, though I am often confused for one. It seems to me that both kinds of feedback are used.Neil Rickert
January 13, 2014
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Lincoln Phipps Evolution is a theory of transformations. Evolutionists should describe the processes of transformation from the ancestor to ameba, to whales and the other 500 million species, as things are described in engineering, bit by bit, molecule by molecule, second by second. They don't provide such 500 million technical explanations, they provide only fables.niwrad
January 13, 2014
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bornagain77, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent It isn't anything unusual in comparing genomes to show that changes add to changes. It works for humans and animal DNA.Lincoln Phipps
January 13, 2014
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niwrad you said "You cannot pass from ameba to whales by “small variations” when ameba per homeostasis tend to remain ameba." and that is obvious as whilst they are both Eukaryota they are equally evolved for their niche. What you forgot to mention is from a common ancestor. Based on common descent then modern amoeba and modern whales will have both originated from a ancestor that they both have in common. That will be quite a while ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_descentLincoln Phipps
January 13, 2014
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Shoot that doesn't seem to be helping either! Perhaps we just got to give the almighty power of neo-Darwinism ‘room to breathe’? How about we ‘open the floodgates’ to the almighty power of Darwinian Evolution and look at Lenski’s Long Term Evolution Experiment and see what we can find after 50,000 generations, which is, according to them, equivalent to somewhere around 1,000,000 years of human evolution???
Richard Lenski’s Long-Term Evolution Experiments with E. coli and the Origin of New Biological Information – September 2011 Excerpt: The results of future work aside, so far, during the course of the longest, most open-ended, and most extensive laboratory investigation of bacterial evolution, a number of adaptive mutations have been identified that endow the bacterial strain with greater fitness compared to that of the ancestral strain in the particular growth medium. The goal of Lenski’s research was not to analyze adaptive mutations in terms of gain or loss of function, as is the focus here, but rather to address other longstanding evolutionary questions. Nonetheless, all of the mutations identified to date can readily be classified as either modification-of-function or loss-of-FCT. (Michael J. Behe, “Experimental Evolution, Loss-of-Function Mutations and ‘The First Rule of Adaptive Evolution’,” Quarterly Review of Biology, Vol. 85(4) (December, 2010).) http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/09/richard_lenskis_long_term_evol051051.html Lenski's Long-Term Evolution Experiment: 25 Years and Counting - Michael Behe - November 21, 2013 Excerpt: Twenty-five years later the culture -- a cumulative total of trillions of cells -- has been going for an astounding 58,000 generations and counting. As the article points out, that's equivalent to a million years in the lineage of a large animal such as humans. Combined with an ability to track down the exact identities of bacterial mutations at the DNA level, that makes Lenski's project the best, most detailed source of information on evolutionary processes available anywhere,,, ,,,for proponents of intelligent design the bottom line is that the great majority of even beneficial mutations have turned out to be due to the breaking, degrading, or minor tweaking of pre-existing genes or regulatory regions (Behe 2010). There have been no mutations or series of mutations identified that appear to be on their way to constructing elegant new molecular machinery of the kind that fills every cell. For example, the genes making the bacterial flagellum are consistently turned off by a beneficial mutation (apparently it saves cells energy used in constructing flagella). The suite of genes used to make the sugar ribose is the uniform target of a destructive mutation, which somehow helps the bacterium grow more quickly in the laboratory. Degrading a host of other genes leads to beneficial effects, too.,,, - http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/11/richard_lenskis079401.html
Now that just can’t be right!! Man we should really start to be seeing some neo-Darwinian fireworks by 50,000 generations!?! Hey I know what we can do! How about we see what happened when the ‘top five’ mutations from Lenski’s experiment were combined??? Surely now the Darwinian magic will start flowing now!?!
Mutations : when benefits level off – June 2011 – (Lenski’s e-coli after 50,000 generations) Excerpt: After having identified the first five beneficial mutations combined successively and spontaneously in the bacterial population, the scientists generated, from the ancestral bacterial strain, 32 mutant strains exhibiting all of the possible combinations of each of these five mutations. They then noted that the benefit linked to the simultaneous presence of five mutations was less than the sum of the individual benefits conferred by each mutation individually. http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/1867.htm?theme1=7
Now something is going terribly wrong here!!! Tell you what, let’s just forget trying to observe evolution in the lab, I mean it really is kind of cramped in the lab you know, and now let’s REALLY open the floodgates and let’s see what the almighty power of neo-Darwinian evolution can do with the ENTIRE WORLD at its disposal??? Surely now the almighty power of neo-Darwinian evolution will flex its awesomely powerful muscles and forever make those IDiots, who believe in Intelligent Design, cower in terror!!!
A review of The Edge of Evolution: The Search for the Limits of Darwinism The numbers of Plasmodium and HIV in the last 50 years greatly exceeds the total number of mammals since their supposed evolutionary origin (several hundred million years ago), yet little has been achieved by evolution. This suggests that mammals could have “invented” little in their time frame. Behe: ‘Our experience with HIV gives good reason to think that Darwinism doesn’t do much—even with billions of years and all the cells in that world at its disposal’ (p. 155). http://creation.com/review-michael-behe-edge-of-evolution "The immediate, most important implication is that complexes with more than two different binding sites-ones that require three or more proteins-are beyond the edge of evolution, past what is biologically reasonable to expect Darwinian evolution to have accomplished in all of life in all of the billion-year history of the world. The reasoning is straightforward. The odds of getting two independent things right are the multiple of the odds of getting each right by itself. So, other things being equal, the likelihood of developing two binding sites in a protein complex would be the square of the probability for getting one: a double CCC, 10^20 times 10^20, which is 10^40. There have likely been fewer than 10^40 cells in the world in the last 4 billion years, so the odds are against a single event of this variety in the history of life. It is biologically unreasonable." - Michael Behe - The Edge of Evolution - page 146 Michael Behe, The Edge of Evolution, pg. 162 Swine Flu, Viruses, and the Edge of Evolution “Indeed, the work on malaria and AIDS demonstrates that after all possible unintelligent processes in the cell–both ones we’ve discovered so far and ones we haven’t–at best extremely limited benefit, since no such process was able to do much of anything. It’s critical to notice that no artificial limitations were placed on the kinds of mutations or processes the microorganisms could undergo in nature. Nothing–neither point mutation, deletion, insertion, gene duplication, transposition, genome duplication, self-organization nor any other process yet undiscovered–was of much use.” http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/05/swine_flu_viruses_and_the_edge020071.html
Now, there is something terribly wrong here! After looking high and low and everywhere in between, we can’t seem to find the almighty power of neo-Darwinism anywhere!! Shoot we can’t even find ANY power to neo-Darwinism evolution whatsoever!!! It is as if the whole neo-Darwinian theory, relentlessly sold to the general public as it was the gospel truth, is nothing but a big fat lie!!! Verse and Music:
Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Evanescence - lies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxHP9-fEuRk
bornagain77
January 13, 2014
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Lincoln Phipps you assert (without reference) that:
'Sure lots of small changes adds up to a big change'
That's the 'bottom up' claim of Darwinists but where is your exact empirical evidence to support it? i.e. Neo-Darwinists claim that evolution is an observed fact on par with the observed fact of gravity. But very contrary to their claims, the plain fact of the matter is that there are ZERO observed instances of neo-Darwinian evolution building up functional complexity: Where's the substantiating evidence for neo-Darwinism?
Peer-Reviewed Research Paper on Plant Biology Favorably Cites Intelligent Design and Challenges Darwinian Evolution - Casey Luskin December 29, 2010 Excerpt: Many of these researchers also raise the question (among others), why — even after inducing literally billions of induced mutations and (further) chromosome rearrangements — all the important mutation breeding programs have come to an end in the Western World instead of eliciting a revolution in plant breeding, either by successive rounds of selective “micromutations” (cumulative selection in the sense of the modern synthesis), or by “larger mutations” … and why the law of recurrent variation is endlessly corroborated by the almost infinite repetition of the spectra of mutant phenotypes in each and any new extensive mutagenesis experiment instead of regularly producing a range of new systematic species… (Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig, “Mutagenesis in Physalis pubescens L. ssp. floridana: Some Further Research on Dollo’s Law and the Law of Recurrent Variation,” Floriculture and Ornamental Biotechnology Vol. 4 (Special Issue 1): 1-21 (December 2010).) http://www.evolutionnews.org/2010/12/peer-reviewed_research_paper_o042191.html Dr. Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig on the Law of Recurrent Variation, pt. 1 - podcast http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/entry/2013-12-09T17_31_28-08_00 "Dr. Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig on the Law of Recurrent Variation, pt. 2" - podcast http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/entry/2013-12-11T15_59_50-08_00 "Dr. Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig on the Law of Recurrent Variation, pt.3" - podcast http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/entry/2013-12-13T16_47_09-08_00
Four decades worth of lab work is surveyed here, and no evidence for neo-Darwinian evolution surfaces:
“The First Rule of Adaptive Evolution”: Break or blunt any functional coded element whose loss would yield a net fitness gain – Michael Behe – December 2010 Excerpt: In its most recent issue The Quarterly Review of Biology has published a review by myself of laboratory evolution experiments of microbes going back four decades.,,, The gist of the paper is that so far the overwhelming number of adaptive (that is, helpful) mutations seen in laboratory evolution experiments are either loss or modification of function. Of course we had already known that the great majority of mutations that have a visible effect on an organism are deleterious. Now, surprisingly, it seems that even the great majority of helpful mutations degrade the genome to a greater or lesser extent.,,, I dub it “The First Rule of Adaptive Evolution”: Break or blunt any functional coded element whose loss would yield a net fitness gain. http://behe.uncommondescent.com/2010/12/the-first-rule-of-adaptive-evolution/
Michael Behe talks about the devastating implications of the preceding paper for neo-Darwinism in this following podcast:
Michael Behe: Challenging Darwin, One Peer-Reviewed Paper at a Time – December 2010 http://intelligentdesign.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-12-23T11_53_46-08_00
How about the oft cited example for neo-Darwinism of antibiotic resistance being proof for Darwinism?
List Of Degraded Molecular Abilities Of Antibiotic Resistant Bacteria: Excerpt: Resistance to antibiotics and other antimicrobials is often claimed to be a clear demonstration of “evolution in a Petri dish.” ,,, all known examples of antibiotic resistance via mutation are inconsistent with the genetic requirements of evolution. These mutations result in the loss of pre-existing cellular systems/activities, such as porins and other transport systems, regulatory systems, enzyme activity, and protein binding. http://www.trueorigin.org/bacteria01.asp
That doesn't seem to be helping! How about we look really, really, close at very sensitive growth rates and see if we can catch the power of almighty evolution in action???
Unexpectedly small effects of mutations in bacteria bring new perspectives – November 2010 Excerpt: Most mutations in the genes of the Salmonella bacterium have a surprisingly small negative impact on bacterial fitness. And this is the case regardless whether they lead to changes in the bacterial proteins or not.,,, using extremely sensitive growth measurements, doctoral candidate Peter Lind showed that most mutations reduced the rate of growth of bacteria by only 0.500 percent. No mutations completely disabled the function of the proteins, and very few had no impact at all. Even more surprising was the fact that mutations that do not change the protein sequence had negative effects similar to those of mutations that led to substitution of amino acids. A possible explanation is that most mutations may have their negative effect by altering mRNA structure, not proteins, as is commonly assumed. http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-unexpectedly-small-effects-mutations-bacteria.html
bornagain77
January 13, 2014
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Lincoln Phipps- Now would be a good time to start presenting evidence that supports your claims. And Intelligent Design Evolution is an agent.Joe
January 13, 2014
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