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At Big Think: Can we predict evolution?

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We can successfully predict the future arrangements of matter based on knowledge of the laws of physics that govern the interactions between particles. When too many particles exist to make detailed predictions about individual particles, we can use statistical physics to predict generally true and reliable outcomes of the larger system of particles. The 2nd law of thermodynamics provides us with a familiar example of outcomes based on statistical physics. If the future forms of living organisms are predictable, it will likewise be due to the ensemble of their systems of particles obeying fundamental laws of physics. “Evolution” is not a “law of physics” that is independent of or supersedes other known laws of physics.

Organisms respond in similar ways to similar circumstances.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

  • Evolution has long been viewed as a largely unpredictable process, influenced by chaotic factors like environmental disruptions and mutations. 
  • However, researchers have demonstrated cases in some organisms of “replicated radiation,” in which similar sets of traits evolve independently in different regions. Now, researchers report the first evidence for replicated radiation in a plant lineage. 
  • As biology learns more about phenomena like replicated radiation, we might be able to predict the course of evolution.

Evolution has a reputation for being unpredictable, yet orderly. With mutations and the environment playing huge roles, it seems that predicting which species will evolve which traits is much like guessing the roll of a single die with millions of faces. 

However, in some cases, researchers have found that the die rolls the same way again and again. A combination of separate organisms’ natural development and the environmental pressures placed on them can create very similar forms, or ecomorphs. Researchers call this phenomenon replicated radiation. (Sometimes, the term adaptive radiation is used synonymously.)

In a new paper published in the journal Nature Ecology & Evolution, an international group of researchers demonstrated that a plant lineage living in 11 geographically isolated regions independently evolved new species with similar leaf forms. This marks the first example of replicated radiation in plants, and the groundbreaking research gives us more insight into the possible future workings of evolution. 

Note: Reason suggests that the development of “similar leaf forms” stems from the fact that they all started from the same “plant lineage.” Furthermore, reason suggests that the original plant lineage had a built-in genomic variability that allowed the variant leaf forms to dominate when environmental pressures favored that form.

evolution
Credit: Annelisa Leinbach / Big Think

The article continues: Different species of Oreinotinus [Viburnum] have different types of leaves. Simply put, some have a large, hair-covered leaf, and others have a smaller, smooth leaf. Originally, experts postulated that both leaf forms evolved early in the group’s history and then dispersed separately through various mountain ranges, carried perhaps by birds. But the distribution pattern of the species, combined with the striking differences in leaf traits, gave researchers an ideal system to explore the possibility that these leaf forms evolved independently across different regions. In other words, they could explore whether this was a case of replicated radiation.

If replicated radiation is occurring, the researchers would expect two key results. First, species in the same area should be more closely related to each other than to species in different regions. Second, similar leaf traits should be present in most areas, but they should evolve independently of one another.

Turning over the same leaf

As Oreinotinus diversified, four major leaf types evolved independently from an ancestral leaf form. The four forms varied in size, shape, margin — that is, whether the edge of the leaf is smooth or toothed — and the presence of leaf hairs. The study grouped the leaves into four types. The researchers also backed up their assessments with a statistical analysis based on these characteristics. 

Nine of the 11 areas harbor at least two leaf forms; four areas include three forms; and one, Oaxaca, is home to four. Based on simulations and models, the authors rejected the simple evolutionary model in which the leaf forms evolved before the species dispersed. They also found that chance alone does not likely explain why nine areas of endemism host two or more leaf forms. Based on these lines of evidence, the team concluded that leaf forms evolved separately within multiple regions. The leaf morphs did not originate early in Oreinotinus evolution. Rather, as different lineages diversified within different areas, each lineage “traversed the same regions of leaf morpho-space.”

So what is this clade telling us when it evolves different leaf forms? As it turns out, different leaves provide different advantages that suit particular climate niches. For example, the smaller leaves would allow more precise thermoregulation — the leaf won’t get too hot or too cold as the weather changes. On the other hand, large leaves would be better for lower-light, frequently cloudy environments, because they improve light capture and make photosynthesis more efficient. So the different leaf ecomorphs are adapted to specific sets of subtly different but often adjacent environmental niches.

The future of evolution

Researchers can now add Oreinotinus to an exclusive list of other groups of organisms known to have undergone replicated radiation, such as Anolis lizards in the Caribbean, cichlid fishes in African rift lakes, and spiders in Hawaii.

With a plant on the list, evolutionary biologists know this is not a trend exclusive to animals isolated on islands, where most of the other examples come from. Like island archipelagos, the cloud forest environments of Oreinotinus are separate from one another. A plant example will help evolutionary biologists pinpoint the broad circumstances under which we can make solid predictions about evolution.

Whether it’s Darwin’s finches, Oreinotinus, or a group of sugar-hungry E. coli, we are all subject to the mysterious workings of evolution. But perhaps, as a diverse set of research groups work to tackle the problem, the mystery will fade. As Michael Donoghue, a co-corresponding author of the Oreinotinus  study, said in a statement, “Maybe evolutionary biology can become much more of a predictive science than we ever imagined in the past.”

Full article at Big Think.

Predictive success alone does not guarantee the success of a theory of how nature works. Additional consequences of a theory must also make sense and not contradict established laws of nature. Naturalistic evolution still contradicts the principle that natural causes will on average degrade the information content (loss of functional complexity) of a system over time.

Comments
PPS, again, https://biologydictionary.net/genetic-code/ >> Genetic Code BD Editors By: BD Editors Reviewed by: BD Editors Last Updated: May 18, 2017 Genetic Code Definition The genetic code is the code our body uses to convert the instructions contained in our DNA the essential materials of life. It is typically discussed using the “codons” found in mRNA, as mRNA is the messenger that carries information from the DNA to the site of protein synthesis. Everything in our cells is ultimately built based on the genetic code. Our hereditary information – that is, the information that’s passed down from parent to child – is stored in the form of DNA. That DNA is then used to build RNA, proteins, and ultimately cells, tissues, and organs. Like binary code, DNA uses a chemical language with just a few letters to store information in a very efficient manner. While binary uses only ones and zeroes, DNA has four letters – the four nucleotides Adenine, Cytosine, Guanine, and Thymine/Uracil. Thymine and Uracil are very similar to each other, except that “Thymine” is slightly more stable and is used in DNA. Uracil is used in RNA, and has all the same properties of Thymine except that it is slightly more prone to mutate. This doesn’t matter in RNA, since new RNA copies can be produced from DNA at any time, and most RNA molecules are intentionally destroyed by the cell a short time after they’re produced so that the cell does not waste resources producing unneeded proteins from old RNA molecules. Together, these four letters of A, C, G, and T/U are used to “spell” coded instructions for each amino acid, as well as other instructions like “start transcription” and “stop transcription.” Instructions for “start,” “stop,” or for a given amino acid are “read” by the cell in three-letter blocks called “codons.” When we talk about “codons,” we usually mean codons in mRNA – the “messenger RNA” that is made by copying the information in DNA . . . >>kairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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PS, try this https://www.genome.gov/genetics-glossary/Genetic-Code >>Genetic code refers to the instructions contained in a gene that tell a cell how to make a specific protein. Each gene’s code uses the four nucleotide bases of DNA: adenine (A), cytosine (C), guanine (G) and thymine (T) — in various ways to spell out three-letter “codons” that specify which amino acid is needed at each position within a protein . . . >>kairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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AF, your quarrel is now also with Dawkins who admitted it's a four state digital code. He then tried to say natural selection invented it but that fails instantly, indeed, this code is part of the systems that have to be in place for there to be self replicating life. Remember, any base can be succeeded by any other in the string, and we have a well known tabulated code with something like 24 dialects, most notably, mitochondrial DNA. That's how bad the fail is. The insistence on such objections in the face of well established multiple Nobel Prize winning work and otherwise utterly uncontroversial conclusions shows just how telling this point is. But, oh it's one of those ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked ID supporters so nothing he says can be right. KF PS, it also shows selective hyperskepticism in action.kairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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CD, you just tried to dismiss a founder of the modern anglophone theory of evidence with an insubstantial self-preening one liner. He is not on trial, you are. That's telling, and it does nothing to undermine the point. And, words get coined all the time. Translation, you have no substance on hyperskepticism and still have nothing on the Haldane challenge. KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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AndyClue @135
It just happened, by chance, that human eye features light sensitive cells responsive to a specific light wave length … RED light = 564 nm , GREEN light = 534 nm and BLUE light = 420 nm. You are confused.
Andy, i am afraid, that you are confused. You guys (Darwinists) always are, confused/wrong. Always. However, i am glad that someone is willing to discuss this topic. This is Europe, it is late here, i am not sure i will be able to reply tonight, but i will try. If not, i will reply tomorrow 100%. So please check. Thank you.martin_r
August 31, 2022
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Tonight on The Alan Fox Show, watch Alan Fox say nice things about Alan Fox.relatd
August 31, 2022
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I see my suggestion about frank and honest discussion fell on deaf ears and Querius needs dealing with. If I'm spared, I'll pop in tomorrow.Alan Fox
August 31, 2022
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You are an obfuscator.
Am not.
Admit it.
Shan't.
ID is the complex, specific words in the correct order that I just typed.
Isn't.
Living things require codes to carry out life functions.
You mean "template" not "code".
You pretend not to realize this.
I don't expect you to believe this on the evidence of the comments you have written. But everything I write here is what I think, know or believe, although I could be mistaken about something, in which case I'm open to correction, especially where evidence is supplied to support a contra-argument.Alan Fox
August 31, 2022
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I’m sorry, KF, but I’m not as gullible and naïve as Prof. Greenleaf. BTW “hyperskeptical”:isn’t really a word……..chuckdarwin
August 31, 2022
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LCD, good catch and of course his attempt to dismiss it as put together by natural selection does not pass the needle in haystack test. KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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Oh? That’s it? The irritants are here for two reasons: The endless promotion of evolution and They enjoy being irritants.
:lol: What promotion of evolution ? They just repeat ad nauseam whatever Dawkins told them . Anyway even Dawkins was forced to admit that the genetic code is a real code we have here few of his apprentices that are afraid to admit it because seems that they are aware(more than Dawkins is) of the logical consequences (at odds with evolution). That's why they feel insecure to admit it .Lieutenant Commander Data
August 31, 2022
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Him and I SorryAaronS1978
August 31, 2022
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AaronS1978: And if you think I don’t criticize people of like-minded belief to myself here you’re also very wrong and relatd can testify to that because him and have argued quite a bit on other threads Fair enough.JVL
August 31, 2022
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@JVL Did I mention you? This was directed at Alan. Because his comment was directly a jab at people on the thread. Have you said anything to try to cause a fight other than trying to make me look like a hypocrite, no not really, but I can apply the criticism to you. And if you think I don’t criticize people of like-minded belief to myself here you’re also very wrong and relatd can testify to that because him and have argued quite a bit on other threadsAaronS1978
August 31, 2022
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Relatd: The irritants are here for two reasons: The endless promotion of evolution and They enjoy being irritants. Not true actually. I have no intention of promoting evolution; I only answer questions posed to me out of politeness. Unless I think the poser will not reciprocate by answering a similar question of their own views. I do feel that when I can clear up an obvious misunderstanding of what unguided evolution actually says then I tend to do so. I am interested in what ID proponents think ID implies which is why I ask a lot of questions. Sadly, those are frequently thrown back at me in the form of a snide statement or question about unguided evolution with no attempt made at answering the question I posed.JVL
August 31, 2022
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Jerry at 145, Oh? That's it? The irritants are here for two reasons: The endless promotion of evolution and They enjoy being irritants. And Dale Carnegie? Why bring him up? You should read the non-existant book by his counterpart, "How to Find People to Manipulate."relatd
August 31, 2022
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This could be posted on nearly every thread at UD. It is one of the many takeaways from Dale Carnegie's book, "How to Win Friends and Influence People"
The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.
There is no winning arguments on UD. Just the continual reposting of the same things over and over. But that will not stop the commenters. They are here to rant or to irritate. Irritation get rants which generates more irritation because the obvious irritation worked.jerry
August 31, 2022
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AaronS1978: stopped being an arrogant repetitive jerk I trust you will apply the same criticism to any and all for whom the shoe fits?JVL
August 31, 2022
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@ Alan Fox you are an antagonist even your comment at 119 was a jab to prompt a fight literally giving a working example of what Sandy was talking about Your whole comment can be summed up as this I’m an atheist the rest of you are stupid but maybe you aren’t willfully stupid Knock it off and try not implying you’re right in all of your comments. Maybe people will be less repetitive and more respectful if you stopped being an arrogant repetitive jerkAaronS1978
August 31, 2022
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AF at 126, You are an obfuscator. Admit it. ID is the complex, specific words in the correct order that I just typed. Living things require codes to carry out life functions. You pretend not to realize this.relatd
August 31, 2022
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Poor atheists how they try to deny the obvious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KG_AMMz4PQLieutenant Commander Data
August 31, 2022
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CD, the usual again. First, it is a major modern error to imagine skepticism a virtue . . . giving doubt the default, it is a counterfeit instead of one aspect of the virtue of prudence tied to right reason and adequacy of warrant. Second, classic hyperskepticism (which is ancient) seeks to deny all knowledge, and ends in obvious self referential incoherence. Claiming or implying knowledge that knowledge is impossible. Oops. Third, we find what Greenleaf termed the error of the skeptic, using hyperskepticism selectively to lock out cases, topics or fields of knowledge by demanding inconsistent and extreme degrees of warrant not properly applicable to such cases; try Cliffordian Evidentialism or the games played with the verification principle for cases in point in the literature. Hyperskepticism is real as the full blown form of parading skepticism as intellectual virtue. Thus, when it is present we see an arbitrary double standard of warrant, designed to dress the fallacy of the closed mind in robes of intellectual virtue. Meanwhile, Haldane's challenge is yet again side stepped, a sure sign that there is no cogent answer to it. KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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@kairosfocus:
AC, you have convinced me to intervene. Instead of building on an insight, you have chosen to start with tearing down.
Naturally. Why would I build on a falsehood? I've corrected Martin_r and then I've asked him a question in order to learn more about what he's talking about.AndyClue
August 31, 2022
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KF/130 What’s the difference between “skepticism” and “hyperskepticism?” Is it like the difference between “clear” and “crystal clear?” Or “redundant” and “repetitively redundant?” Or “exaggerated” and “over exaggerated?”chuckdarwin
August 31, 2022
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AC, you have convinced me to intervene. Instead of building on an insight, you have chosen to start with tearing down. Okay, the success of RGB visual technologies already hints that our eyes sense R, G and B and our brains use these colours to compose full colour images. That is roughly correct. For example, we have metamerism, by which colours that are spectrally, physically, different can be visually matched, such as a native yellow matched through mixing red and green light. This is the effect that colour displays, photography and printing take advantage of. However, especially for objects that reflect light, consistent matching under daylight vs fluorescent light vs incandescent lights can be challenging. For more detail, let us now see how we could get R, G & B colours (we are adding light in the eye) from how our cone cells [the actual sensors] work. Notice, the peaked colour responses for L ~564nm, M 534nm and S 420nm cones, and also the peak for rods, D, ~498nm and how close the L and M peaks are. That is a puzzle at first, and a hint that the eye is not simply adding R G and B. Also, let us note that rod cells are more dominant for low light levels, which is why our low light level vision is monochrome, with a greyish green tinge. Roughly, L - M would pick up Red. S - (M+L) similarly gives blue, M is clearly green. So, we have RGB. However, it is thought that in the sensor and neural networks in the retina, optic nerves and brain, an additive/subtractive process is carried out, which can be seen as in effect giving four colour channels, roughly, RGBY. Yes, three and four colour elements are involved, it seems. R/G channel, L-M. G/R, M-L. B/Y, S - (M+L), Y/B (M+L)-S, Y being yellow. And yes, there are four channel monitors that have a Y channel. As for colour sensitivity and distinctions, a common estimate is ~ 10 million. Some women are tetrachromats and reportedly may see up to ~ 100 million colours thanks to an orange sensitive cone. The fundamental point is, we have a highly technical information processing system to explain, and to account for origin. Blind chance and/or mechanical necessity come up distinctly short here. KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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Martin_r: figured out how to make these light sensitive cells to be responsive EXACTLY to these 3 specific wave lengths in order to create visual system As has already been pointed out the three different cones in the human eye respond to ranges of frequencies. (Nice graph here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell). As you can see, the ranges are not evenly spaced with the red and green cone cells having considerable overlap. Any three different cone receptors that could detect around 100 different 'colours' each would give you millions of different combinations. And no, the human brain does not use an RGB chart. The spectrum is a continuum; humans gave bands of the spectrum different names.
For example, while the L cones have been referred to simply as red receptors, microspectrophotometry has shown that their peak sensitivity is in the greenish-yellow region of the spectrum. Similarly, the S cones and M cones do not directly correspond to blue and green, although they are often described as such. The RGB color model, therefore, is a convenient means for representing color but is not directly based on the types of cones in the human eye.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_vision Also, some creatures are monochromatic, they only have one type of cone (cetaceans, the owl monkey and the Australian sea lion); some are dichromats (including colour-blind humans); some are trichromats (like humans); some are tetrachromats (some birds, fish and amphibians); and, most impressively of all, mantis shrimp have between 12 and 16 different types of photoreceptors.JVL
August 31, 2022
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@Martin_r:
It just happened, by chance, that human eye features light sensitive cells responsive to a specific light wave length … RED light = 564 nm , GREEN light = 534 nm and BLUE light = 420 nm.
You are confused. Human eyes are sensitive to wavelengths approx. 380-750 nm. For instance, if you look at the sensitivity graph you will see, that at 564 nm two kinds of cones are highly sensitive.
Or how did human brain figured out, how to correctly mix 16,000,000+ of colors ? Because there are 16,000,000+ of combinations how to mix red, green and blue color in order to get a correct color/result
What do you mean by "correct"? Where did you get the 16mio+ number from? I've heard humans can distinguish 10mio colors. Are you talking about web-colors, where each channel is represented by 8 bits?AndyClue
August 31, 2022
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JVL, 108, strawman tactics: >>ID says almost nothing>> - we both know that the empirically and analytically supported design inference is revolutionary, opening up a whole new domain for science, action of intelligent agency recognised from traces - this is setting up further strawmen but is the chief strawman and it pivots on willful misrepresentation >> and that makes it a better explanation? Really?>> - strawman no 2 riding piggyback on strawman no 1 - restoring refusal to dominate a field through imposed ideologies that are allowed to censor analysis, publication, career prospects and more is a return of science from ideological captivity. - do I need to quote Lewontin et al to underscore the point? You know better. >>ID can’t say when design was implemented; >> - we both know the first pivotal inference is THAT something shows signs that warrant that it is in key part a result of intelligently directed configuration, such as discovering complex, coded algorithms in D/RNA in the heart of the cell - you duck that to try instead to pretend that the inference is not primarily about mechanisms, techniques and circumstances must be some telling defect. - rubbish. Timelines and techniques are open for onward study. - You full well know that with Venter et al, engineering of cell based life is a fact, and that there are technologies and methods of proved though primitive effectiveness. Indeed, there are even protest movements over genetic modification of organisms. - all we need to say is, project our early days tech several generations forward. I am sure you are aware that a personal prediction is, I expect fresh synthesis of life in the molecular nanotech lab before this century is out. - so, you are willfully mischaracterising us to try to gain rhetorical advantage. That, for cause, damages your credibility. You are better than this, JVL. >>some even say it can’t say anything about that.>> - the design inference, strict sense, is antecedent to such and as we just saw, there is abundant evidence of design and technologies already a commonplace. >> ID says zilch about how design was implemented. >> - The strict sense design inference is about THAT design happened; onward investigations along Venter's lines or the like duly guided by TRIZ . . . yet another side-stepped matter . . . address design, invention, tech progress etc. - strawman yet again, I trust this is never repeated, but this is a talk point that has had to be addressed many times. Indeed, it is addressed in the Weak Argument Correctives that so many objectors insist on dodging. - that itself speaks sad volumes. >>ID says double zilch about why design was implemented.>> - we both know the strict sense design inference is THAT on empirical evidence of reliable sign, design is present. - we further know that designers come with many motives that are not evident from signs of design. So you set up a selectively hyperskeptical demand for what cannot be responsibly offered as though "failure" to do that is a defect. - that's a fallacy of inversion, putting good for bad and bad for good - meanwhile, blind chance and/or mechanical necessity stand as utterly incompetent to demonstrate observed ability to create FSCO/I as is found in the cell. >> In fact, ID makes almost no claims at all. >> - little more than pretending that a pivotal and reforming warranted conclusion does not exist. - sad KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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Martin writes “ Complex chemical mixtures should have evolved 100 times independently ??? In evolutionary unrelated species ?” THAT was the issue - the absurdity. Then Fox introduces a Tu Quoque argument, irrelevant and immaterial as Tu Quoque arguments always are. The rest is chaos.Belfast
August 31, 2022
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Relatd @107
Let’s create a human eye: The lens is formed by accident. The eyeball is formed by accident. The optic nerve is formed by accident. It is connected to the right location in the brain by accident.
all these are "small" things ... Get this - key words Mixing colors (it will be a bit technical, but this is what human visual system is about ... it is pretty technical, because it has been engineered... so it has to be technical ... there is no other way around .... ) Human visual system works in RGB color space (like your TV or PC monitor, or a camcorder). It just happened, by chance, that human eye features light sensitive cells responsive to a specific light wave length ... RED light = 564 nm , GREEN light = 534 nm and BLUE light = 420 nm. So let's play an absurdly naive Darwnist and believe, that blind unguided natural process, without any knowledge of light properties, figured out how to make these light sensitive cells to be responsive EXACTLY to these 3 specific wave lengths in order to create visual system with 16,000,000+ color resolution ... responsive means, when the light hit the photo-cell, an electrical signal is triggered, and this signal is processed by brain ... And now, the most important part ... If you want to mix 16,000,000+ colors, based on R/G/B information, you need a RGB color chart (so you know, what amount of RED and GREEN and BLUE color to add in to get a correct resulting color) E.g. mixing red + green color gives you magenta ... of course, it is much more complicated when mixing 16,000,000+ colors (like our brain does), you need to correctly mix all 3 colors (red green, blue,), plus, you need to count with light intensity and so on ... So my question is, and i never hear any answer/speculation: Is human brain using RGB color chart ? Or how did human brain figured out, how to correctly mix 16,000,000+ of colors ? Because there are 16,000,000+ of combinations how to mix red, green and blue color in order to get a correct color/result ... Here is a RGB color chart / calculator: https://www.rapidtables.com/web/color/RGB_Color.htmlmartin_r
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