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At Big Think: Can we predict evolution?

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We can successfully predict the future arrangements of matter based on knowledge of the laws of physics that govern the interactions between particles. When too many particles exist to make detailed predictions about individual particles, we can use statistical physics to predict generally true and reliable outcomes of the larger system of particles. The 2nd law of thermodynamics provides us with a familiar example of outcomes based on statistical physics. If the future forms of living organisms are predictable, it will likewise be due to the ensemble of their systems of particles obeying fundamental laws of physics. “Evolution” is not a “law of physics” that is independent of or supersedes other known laws of physics.

Organisms respond in similar ways to similar circumstances.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

  • Evolution has long been viewed as a largely unpredictable process, influenced by chaotic factors like environmental disruptions and mutations. 
  • However, researchers have demonstrated cases in some organisms of “replicated radiation,” in which similar sets of traits evolve independently in different regions. Now, researchers report the first evidence for replicated radiation in a plant lineage. 
  • As biology learns more about phenomena like replicated radiation, we might be able to predict the course of evolution.

Evolution has a reputation for being unpredictable, yet orderly. With mutations and the environment playing huge roles, it seems that predicting which species will evolve which traits is much like guessing the roll of a single die with millions of faces. 

However, in some cases, researchers have found that the die rolls the same way again and again. A combination of separate organisms’ natural development and the environmental pressures placed on them can create very similar forms, or ecomorphs. Researchers call this phenomenon replicated radiation. (Sometimes, the term adaptive radiation is used synonymously.)

In a new paper published in the journal Nature Ecology & Evolution, an international group of researchers demonstrated that a plant lineage living in 11 geographically isolated regions independently evolved new species with similar leaf forms. This marks the first example of replicated radiation in plants, and the groundbreaking research gives us more insight into the possible future workings of evolution. 

Note: Reason suggests that the development of “similar leaf forms” stems from the fact that they all started from the same “plant lineage.” Furthermore, reason suggests that the original plant lineage had a built-in genomic variability that allowed the variant leaf forms to dominate when environmental pressures favored that form.

evolution
Credit: Annelisa Leinbach / Big Think

The article continues: Different species of Oreinotinus [Viburnum] have different types of leaves. Simply put, some have a large, hair-covered leaf, and others have a smaller, smooth leaf. Originally, experts postulated that both leaf forms evolved early in the group’s history and then dispersed separately through various mountain ranges, carried perhaps by birds. But the distribution pattern of the species, combined with the striking differences in leaf traits, gave researchers an ideal system to explore the possibility that these leaf forms evolved independently across different regions. In other words, they could explore whether this was a case of replicated radiation.

If replicated radiation is occurring, the researchers would expect two key results. First, species in the same area should be more closely related to each other than to species in different regions. Second, similar leaf traits should be present in most areas, but they should evolve independently of one another.

Turning over the same leaf

As Oreinotinus diversified, four major leaf types evolved independently from an ancestral leaf form. The four forms varied in size, shape, margin — that is, whether the edge of the leaf is smooth or toothed — and the presence of leaf hairs. The study grouped the leaves into four types. The researchers also backed up their assessments with a statistical analysis based on these characteristics. 

Nine of the 11 areas harbor at least two leaf forms; four areas include three forms; and one, Oaxaca, is home to four. Based on simulations and models, the authors rejected the simple evolutionary model in which the leaf forms evolved before the species dispersed. They also found that chance alone does not likely explain why nine areas of endemism host two or more leaf forms. Based on these lines of evidence, the team concluded that leaf forms evolved separately within multiple regions. The leaf morphs did not originate early in Oreinotinus evolution. Rather, as different lineages diversified within different areas, each lineage “traversed the same regions of leaf morpho-space.”

So what is this clade telling us when it evolves different leaf forms? As it turns out, different leaves provide different advantages that suit particular climate niches. For example, the smaller leaves would allow more precise thermoregulation — the leaf won’t get too hot or too cold as the weather changes. On the other hand, large leaves would be better for lower-light, frequently cloudy environments, because they improve light capture and make photosynthesis more efficient. So the different leaf ecomorphs are adapted to specific sets of subtly different but often adjacent environmental niches.

The future of evolution

Researchers can now add Oreinotinus to an exclusive list of other groups of organisms known to have undergone replicated radiation, such as Anolis lizards in the Caribbean, cichlid fishes in African rift lakes, and spiders in Hawaii.

With a plant on the list, evolutionary biologists know this is not a trend exclusive to animals isolated on islands, where most of the other examples come from. Like island archipelagos, the cloud forest environments of Oreinotinus are separate from one another. A plant example will help evolutionary biologists pinpoint the broad circumstances under which we can make solid predictions about evolution.

Whether it’s Darwin’s finches, Oreinotinus, or a group of sugar-hungry E. coli, we are all subject to the mysterious workings of evolution. But perhaps, as a diverse set of research groups work to tackle the problem, the mystery will fade. As Michael Donoghue, a co-corresponding author of the Oreinotinus  study, said in a statement, “Maybe evolutionary biology can become much more of a predictive science than we ever imagined in the past.”

Full article at Big Think.

Predictive success alone does not guarantee the success of a theory of how nature works. Additional consequences of a theory must also make sense and not contradict established laws of nature. Naturalistic evolution still contradicts the principle that natural causes will on average degrade the information content (loss of functional complexity) of a system over time.

Comments
Asauber: ID doesn’t claim to provide step by step design implementation. Unguided evolution doesn't claim to provide it either. They claim it exists. Oh, and, by the way, ID is a "better" explanation when it cannot provide a better, more detailed explanation? There is no way anyone can specifically provide a step-by-step mutational journey for any changes that happened in the past. DNA was only isolated in the 1950s and complete genome retrieval is still pretty expensive and time consuming. However, monitoring modern situations is providing some examples of small, step-by-step alterations. Some of these are well documented in Neil Shubin's book Some Assembly Acquired. Perhaps you should read that book.JVL
August 30, 2022
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"Would you reciprocate and provide a step-by-step design explanation for the same situation?" JVL, ID doesn't claim to provide step by step design implementation. But evolution claims to provide step by step implementation. So let's go with that. Or is this going to end up with you not providing any evidence for your position? Again? Andrewasauber
August 30, 2022
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Note that researchers have found that software simulations of ecosystems are typically unstable and crash after decimating the ecosystem's carrying capacity. I've worked on this problem myself. Ecosystems also seem to be intelligently designed. Thus, the driverless car analogy is apt. -QQuerius
August 30, 2022
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Asauber: IF you did, I would scientifically scrutinize it, and let you know what I perceived. Would you reciprocate and provide a step-by-step design explanation for the same situation?JVL
August 30, 2022
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Querius: Already provided multiple times. For example, see @75. First of all, most of the statements made in comment 75 are just assertions. Secondly, many of them are so egregiously wrong I'm surprised you reproduced them. Nonetheless . . . Pick one of those assertions and we shall look into it. Which one will you pick . . .JVL
August 30, 2022
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"IF I did provide that information what would you do?" JVL, IF you did, I would scientifically scrutinize it, and let you know what I perceived. Andrewasauber
August 30, 2022
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Asauber: So far you haven’t shown —->any<—– small step evidence. Neither have you. So? IF I did provide that information what would you do?JVL
August 30, 2022
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JVL @88, Scientific theories are never "proven" right or wrong. Evidence and experimentation shows them either stronger or weaker. This is seventh grade science. -QQuerius
August 30, 2022
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Relatd: I send an unguided, driverless car down a road. How long before it crashes and burns? Are you suggesting that the entirety of life on earth is equivalent to one driverless car heading down a road? Really? You don't seem to really grasp the unguided evolution idea. New life forms come from existing, viable forms. But the process is very wasteful, many offspring die, some before birth, some at birth, some soon after birth. So, yes, in some sense, there are a lot of cars crashing and burning. But some don't.JVL
August 30, 2022
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Ba77 at 78, "The actual issue(s) is that hard-core Darwinists, since they are emotionally, even religiously, committed to Atheism, could care less what the actual evidence says." That sums up everything. Once atheists had Darwin, they had what seemed, for a while, to be a reason for believing that nothing made human beings. But the death of evolution will take time. Supporters here and elsewhere will have to keep promoting it. At the same time, they have to ignore the fact that all of the sentences here use word-symbols that are complex, specific and in the correct order to be understood correctly. Living things contain codes that operate in the same way. But further attempts to deny that will continue.relatd
August 30, 2022
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"This is a typical ID wheeze: you can’t show every single small step so your idea is bogus." JVL, So far you haven't shown ---->any<----- small step evidence. Andrewasauber
August 30, 2022
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Goodness me, get called away and a plethora of misrepresentation ensues. I'm shocked, shocked I say, to see that happening here. Querius at 75 is particularly egregious. For shame, for shame. Response tomorrow. Gnite.Alan Fox
August 30, 2022
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JVL @85, Already provided multiple times. For example, see @75. -QQuerius
August 30, 2022
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Bornagain77: whatever. What experiments did Dr Behe do to prove unguided evolution wrong? Please be specific.JVL
August 30, 2022
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Relatd: Are you? I read and listen to people who are chemists and biologists and biochemists and the vast majority disagree with Dr Behe. Maybe they're all wrong. Maybe there is some vast conspiracy to uphold the accepted paradigm. But, conspiracy theories aside . . . I gotta think the evidence and the consensus is for unguided evolution.JVL
August 30, 2022
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Relatd @83, Remember the folk wisdom: "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get muddy and the pig likes it." Also note that there's no dispute from the Darwinists here on the substantive information presented, nor do they provide anything that a reasonably well-programmed trollbot couldn't also produce. -QQuerius
August 30, 2022
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Asauber: So get specific. Show us a specific trail of small-step evidence, where unguided evolution occurred. But will you reciprocate and offer a similar, detailed trail of design? You will not. Why should anyone do tons of work for someone with a double standard? For a view which has no detail or fine gradations? This is a typical ID wheeze: you can't show every single small step so your idea is bogus. But ID provides zero steps, no timeline, no mechanism, no steps at all. When you can provide even an attempt at your own explanation for the phenomena you query then we can talk. When it's a fair discussion.JVL
August 30, 2022
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So I request this: "So get specific. Show us a specific trail of small-step evidence, where unguided evolution occurred." ...and unsurprisingly there are evasions and crickets. Andrewasauber
August 30, 2022
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JVL at 80, Are you? 15 year olds in high school who are told blind, unguided forces made all living things are none of these, yet, if they accept evolution then that's considered good science teaching. When anyone, scientist or not, suggests otherwise then problems occur. But they amount to empty objections. People judge the information they're getting all the time.relatd
August 30, 2022
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"So, you’ve run out of meaningful things to say. Noted." JVL, No, you've just decided to be obtuse. Again. Andrewasauber
August 30, 2022
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JVL, whatever.
The Scientific Method – Richard Feynman – video Quote: ‘If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL6-x0modwY
bornagain77
August 30, 2022
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Bornagain77: The actual issue(s) is that Darwinists could care less what the actual evidence says. What if you and Dr Behe are wrong about the actual evidence? Who are you to judge? Are you a biologist? Or a chemist? Or a biochemist?JVL
August 30, 2022
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Asauber: So… Behe did do science. And scientists criticized it. Because… it… was… science…. So, you've run out of meaningful things to say. Noted.JVL
August 30, 2022
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"Are you sure you really are aware of the actual issues?" Yep. The actual issue(s) is that hard-core Darwinists, since they are emotionally, even religiously, committed to Atheism, could care less what the actual evidence says. As I've pointed out numerous times before, Darwinism is not a science, but is, since Darwinists simply refuse to accept any experimental falsification of their theory, much more properly classified as a unfalsifiable pseudo-science, even classified as a religion for atheists, than ever being classified as a hard science.
“In so far as a scientific statement speaks about reality, it must be falsifiable: and in so far as it is not falsifiable, it does not speak about reality.” – Karl R. Popper, The Logic of Scientific Discovery
Here are a few more instances where Darwinists simply refuse to accept falsification of their theory,
1. Darwin’s theory holds mutations to the genome to be random. The vast majority of mutations to the genome are not random but are now found to be ‘directed’. 2. Darwin’s theory holds that Natural Selection is the ‘designer substitute’ that produces the ‘appearance’ and/or illusion of design. Natural Selection, especially for multicellular organisms, is found to be grossly inadequate as the ‘designer substitute. 3. Darwin’s theory holds that mutations to DNA will eventually change the basic biological form of any given species into a new form of a brand new species. Yet, biological form is found to be irreducible to mutations to DNA, nor is biological form reducible to any other material particulars in biology one may wish to invoke. 4. Darwin’s theory, (via Fisher’s Theorem in population genetics), assumed there to be an equal proportion of good and bad mutations to DNA which were, ultimately, responsible for all the diversity and complexity of life we see on earth. Yet, the ratio of detrimental to beneficial mutations is overwhelmingly detrimental. Detrimental to such a point that it is seriously questioned whether there are any truly beneficial, information building, mutations whatsoever. 5. Charles Darwin himself held that the gradual unfolding of life would (someday) be self-evident in the fossil record. Yet, from the Cambrian Explosion onward, the fossil record is consistently characterized by the sudden appearance of a group/kind in the fossil record, (i.e. disparity), then rapid diversity within the group/kind, and then long term stability and even deterioration of variety within the overall group/kind, and within the specific species of the kind, over long periods of time. Of the few dozen or so fossils claimed as transitional, not one is uncontested as a true example of transition between major animal forms out of millions of collected fossils. Moreover, Fossils are found in the “wrong place” all the time (either too early, or too late). 6. Darwin’s theory, due to the randomness postulate, holds that patterns will not repeat themselves in supposedly widely divergent species. Yet thousands of instances of what is ironically called ‘convergent evolution’, on both the morphological and genetic level, falsifies the Darwinian belief that patterns will not repeat themselves in widely divergent species. 7. Charles Darwin himself stated that “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” Yet as Doug Axe pointed out, “Basically every gene and every new protein fold, there is nothing of significance that we can show that can be had in that gradualistic way. It’s all a mirage. None of it happens that way.” 8. Charles Darwin himself stated that “If it could be proved that any part of the structure of any one species had been formed for the exclusive good of another species, it would annihilate my theory, for such could not have been produced through natural selection.” Yet as Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig pointed out, “in thousands of plant species often entirely new organs have been formed for the exclusive good of more than 132,930 other species, these ‘ugly facts’ have annihilated Darwin’s theory as well as modern versions of it.” 9. Charles Darwin himself stated that, ““The impossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with our conscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for the existence of God. Yet ‘our conscious selves’ are certainly not explainable by ‘chance’ (nor is consciousness explainable by any possible reductive materialistic explanation in general), i.e. ‘the hard problem of consciousness’. 10. Besides the mathematics of probability consistently showing that Darwinian evolution is impossible, the mathematics of population genetics itself has now shown Darwinian evolution to be impossible. Moreover, ‘immaterial’ mathematics itself, which undergirds all of science, engineering and technology, is held by most mathematicians to exist in some timeless, unchanging, immaterial, Platonic realm. Yet, the reductive materialism that Darwinian theory is based upon denies the existence of the immaterial realm that mathematics exists in. i.e. Darwinian evolution actually denies the objective reality of the one thing, i.e. mathematics, that it most needs in order to be considered scientific in the first place! 11. Donald Hoffman has, via population genetics, shown that if Darwin’s materialistic theory were true then all our observations of reality would be illusory. Yet the scientific method itself is based on reliable observation. Moreover, Quantum Mechanics itself has now shown that conscious observation must come before material reality, i.e. falsification of ‘realism’ proves that our conscious observations are reliable!. 12. The reductive materialism that undergirds Darwinian thought holds that immaterial information is merely ’emergent’ from a material basis. Yet immaterial Information, via experimental realization of the “Maxwell’s Demon” thought experiment, is now found to be its own distinctive physical entity that, although it can interact in a ‘top down’ manner with matter and energy, is separate from matter and energy. 13. Darwinists hold that Darwin’s theory is true. Yet ‘Truth’ itself is an abstract property of an immaterial mind that is irreducible to the reductive materialistic explanations of Darwinian evolution. i.e. Assuming reductive materialism and/or Naturalism as the starting philosophical position of science actually precludes ‘the truth’ from ever being reached by science! 14. Darwinists, due to their underlying naturalistic philosophy, insist that teleology (i.e. goal directed purpose) does not exist. Yet it is impossible for Biologists to do biological research without constantly invoking words that directly imply teleology. i.e. The very words that Biologists themselves are forced to use when they are doing their research falsifies Darwinian evolution. Defense of each claim https://docs.google.com/document/d/1I6fT6ATY700Bsx2-JSFqL6l-rzXpMcZcZKZfYRS45h4/edit
Verse:
1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test all things. Hold fast to the good.
Of supplemental note:
Top Ten Questions and Objections to ‘Introduction to Evolutionary Informatics’ – Robert J. Marks II – June 12, 2017 Excerpt: “There exists no model successfully describing undirected Darwinian evolution. Hard sciences are built on foundations of mathematics or definitive simulations. Examples include electromagnetics, Newtonian mechanics, geophysics, relativity, thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, optics, and many areas in biology. Those hoping to establish Darwinian evolution as a hard science with a model have either failed or inadvertently cheated. These models contain guidance mechanisms to land the airplane squarely on the target runway despite stochastic wind gusts. Not only can the guiding assistance be specifically identified in each proposed evolution model, its contribution to the success can be measured, in bits, as active information.,,,”,,, “there exists no model successfully describing undirected Darwinian evolution. According to our current understanding, there never will be.,,,” https://evolutionnews.org/2017/06/top-ten-questions-and-objections-to-introduction-to-evolutionary-informatics/ Robert Jackson Marks II is an American electrical engineer. His contributions include the Zhao-Atlas-Marks (ZAM) time-frequency distribution in the field of signal processing,[1] the Cheung–Marks theorem[2] in Shannon sampling theory and the Papoulis-Marks-Cheung (PMC) approach in multidimensional sampling.[3] He was instrumental in the defining of the field of computational intelligence and co-edited the first book using computational intelligence in the title.[4][5] – per wikipedia
bornagain77
August 30, 2022
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"Yes, it does. And . . ." JVL, So... Behe did do science. And scientists criticized it. Because... it... was... science.... Andrewasauber
August 30, 2022
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Bornagain77: Hmm, I wonder why does that sentence not instead read as, “many biologists have reviewed his (Behe’s) work and have conducted, or referenced, experimental work that refutes his work.” Many of the objections had to do with Dr Behe's interpretations of other people's work. So, they pointed out how he had misread things. Are you sure you really are aware of the actual issues?JVL
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The scientific attractiveness of ID is that it actually works. It doesn't depend on theism. It doesn't depend on science fantasy stories. And it doesn't depend on alien intrusions. All that ID claims is that living things appear intelligently designed, so that organelles, biochemical cycles, and genetic mechanisms that are poorly understood are more likely to function as if they were intelligently designed rather than as useless vestiges of undirected evolution. Examples: * Biologists once claimed over 100 "vestigial" organs in the human body, including the thyroid and other ductless glands. The was PREDICTED by Darwinism. It failed. * Geneticists once believed in "junk" DNA, which is now termed non-coding DNA. Junk DNA was PREDICTED by Darwinism. It also failed, but Darwinists are grimly hanging on to the shrinking areas of DNA that they can still claim as junk. * The skeletal remains of extinct animals called dinosaurs supposedly lived roughly 65-250 million years ago were ALL supposedly petrified artifacts without any possibility for organic matter to survive. This was PREDICTED by Darwinism. It's also failed, but Darwinists are grimly hanging on to the unscientific possibility that 100 million years of background radiation miraculously allowed organic bone, stretchy connective tissue, and even red blood cells to survive. * The half-life of DNA has been scientifically determined to be 521 years (https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.11555). Thus, after only seven half lives or about 3,600 years, less than 1% of DNA would survive under ideal conditions (-5 C). It's predicted that EVERY BOND in DNA would be destroyed in 6.8 million years. Nevertheless, Darwinists still claim that DNA sequences from insects in amber are 25-30 million years old (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1411508/) and that Neanderthal DNA has been sequenced as far back as 430,000 years (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1411508/). So, as it should be obvious, the data doesn't fit Darwinian expectations or timeline. Darwinism has been repeatedly falsified and should no longer be considered "science," but rather "science fantasy" originally motivated by racist and colonialist ideologies. On the other hand, ID has repeatedly been vindicated as new discoveries show that previously unknown organelles, biochemical cycles, and genetic mechanisms actually have function and should thus be investigated as if they were intelligently designed! -QQuerius
August 30, 2022
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Asauber: Sounds like scientists doing science. Yes, it does. And . . .JVL
August 30, 2022
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As to: “many biologists have reviewed his (Behe's) work and pointed out flaws.” Hmm, I wonder why does that sentence not instead read as, “many biologists have reviewed his (Behe's) work and have conducted, or referenced, experimental work that refutes his work.” The reason why it doesn't read that way is because there simply is no experimental work refuting Behe's empirically derived results. Empirically derived results which show that there is a fairly strict 1 in 10^20 limit to what Darwinian processes can accomplish. So, apparently, all Darwinists are left with is for them to resort to misleading rhetoric in order to try to cast doubt on his straight-forward, empirically derived, results. Needless to say, that is NOT 'doing science', but is resistance to following the evidence where it leads., which is the opposite of science.
"The number I cite, one parasite in every 10^20 for de novo chloroquine resistance, is not a probability calculation. Rather, it is a statistic, a result, a data point. (Furthermore, it is not my number, but that of the eminent malariologist Nicholas White.) I do not assume that “adaptation cannot occur one mutation at a time”; I assume nothing at all. I am simply looking at the results. The malaria parasite was free to do whatever it could in nature; to evolve resistance, or outcompete its fellow parasites, by whatever evolutionary pathway was available in the wild. Neither I nor anyone else were manipulating the results. What we see when we look at chloroquine-resistant malaria is pristine data — it is the best that random mutation plus selection was able to accomplish in the wild in 10^20 tries." - Michael Behe Waiting Longer for Two Mutations - Michael J. Behe Excerpt: Citing malaria literature sources (White 2004) I had noted that the de novo appearance of chloroquine resistance in Plasmodium falciparum was an event of probability of 1 in 10^20. I then wrote that 'for humans to achieve a mutation like this by chance, we would have to wait 100 million times 10 million years' (1 quadrillion years)(Behe 2007) (because that is the extrapolated time that it would take to produce 10^20 humans). Durrett and Schmidt (2008, p. 1507) retort that my number ‘is 5 million times larger than the calculation we have just given’ using their model (which nonetheless "using their model" gives a prohibitively long waiting time of 216 million years). Their criticism compares apples to oranges. My figure of 10^20 is an empirical statistic from the literature; it is not, as their calculation is, a theoretical estimate from a population genetics model. Generally, when the results of a simple model disagree with observational data, it is an indication that the model is inadequate.,,, The difficulty with models such as Durrett and Schmidt’s is that their biological relevance is often uncertain, and unknown factors that are quite important to cellular evolution may be unintentionally left out of the model. That is why experimental or observational data on the evolution of microbes such as P. falciparum are invaluable,,, http://www.discovery.org/a/9461 Michael Behe - Empirically observed (1 in 10^20) Edge of Evolution - video - Lecture delivered in April 2015 at Colorado School of Mines 25:56 minute quote - "This is not an argument anymore that Darwinism cannot make complex functional systems; it is an observation that it does not." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9svV8wNUqvA An Open Letter to Kenneth Miller and PZ Myers - Michael Behe July 21, 2014 Dear Professors Miller and Myers, Talk is cheap. Let's see your numbers. In your recent post on and earlier reviews of my book The Edge of Evolution you toss out a lot of words, but no calculations. You downplay FRS Nicholas White's straightforward estimate that -- considering the number of cells per malaria patient (a trillion), times the number of ill people over the years (billions), divided by the number of independent events (fewer than ten) -- the development of chloroquine-resistance in malaria is an event of probability about 1 in 10^20 malaria-cell replications. Okay, if you don't like that, what's your estimate? Let's see your numbers.,,, ,,, If you folks think that direct, parsimonious, rather obvious route to 1 in 10^20 isn't reasonable, go ahead, calculate a different one, then tell us how much it matters, quantitatively. Posit whatever favorable or neutral mutations you want. Just make sure they're consistent with the evidence in the literature (especially the rarity of resistance, the total number of cells available, and the demonstration by Summers et al. that a minimum of two specific mutations in PfCRT is needed for chloroquine transport). Tell us about the effects of other genes, or population structures, if you think they matter much, or let us know if you disagree for some reason with a reported literature result. Or, Ken, tell us how that ARMD phenotype you like to mention affects the math. Just make sure it all works out to around 1 in 10^20, or let us know why not. Everyone is looking forward to seeing your calculations. Please keep the rhetoric to a minimum. With all best wishes (especially to Professor Myers for a speedy recovery), Mike Behe http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/07/show_me_the_num088041.html February 2022 - All the responses from Dr. Behe to his critics defending the 1 in 10^20 finding https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/asked-at-evolution-news-how-much-can-evolution-really-accomplish/#comment-748038
Quote and verse:
The Scientific Method – Richard Feynman – video Quote: ‘If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn’t make any difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are, who made the guess, or what his name is… If it disagrees with experiment, it’s wrong. That’s all there is to it.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL6-x0modwY 1 Thessalonians 5:21 but test all things. Hold fast to the good.
bornagain77
August 30, 2022
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Querius @7
For example, the celebrated adaptation of the beaks in Galapagos (aka Darwin’s) finches occurs in a single generation
as to "occurs in a single generation" Have you ever heard of Senegal bichir ? Get this:
Emily Standen is a scientist at the University of Ottawa, who studies Polypterus senegalus, AKA the Senegal bichir, a fish that not only has gills but also primitive lungs. Regular polypterus can breathe air at the surface, but they are “much more content” living underwater, she says. But when Standen took Polypterus that had spent their first few weeks of life in water, and subsequently raised them on land, their bodies began to change immediately. The bones in their fins elongated and became sharper, able to pull them along dry land with the help of wider joint sockets and larger muscles. Their necks softened. Their primordial lungs expanded and their other organs shifted to accommodate them. Their entire appearance transformed. “They resembled the transition species you see in the fossil record, partway between sea and land,” Standen told me. According to the traditional theory of evolution, this kind of change takes millions of years. But, says Armin Moczek, an extended synthesis proponent, the Senegal bichir “is adapting to land in a single generation”. He sounded almost proud of the fish.
by the way, i got it from a very interesting mainstream article (published June 2022):
"A new wave of scientists argues that mainstream evolutionary theory needs an urgent overhaul. Their opponents have dismissed them as misguided careerists – and the conflict may determine the future of biology" https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jun/28/do-we-need-a-new-theory-of-evolution
martin_r
August 30, 2022
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