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At Big Think: Can we predict evolution?

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We can successfully predict the future arrangements of matter based on knowledge of the laws of physics that govern the interactions between particles. When too many particles exist to make detailed predictions about individual particles, we can use statistical physics to predict generally true and reliable outcomes of the larger system of particles. The 2nd law of thermodynamics provides us with a familiar example of outcomes based on statistical physics. If the future forms of living organisms are predictable, it will likewise be due to the ensemble of their systems of particles obeying fundamental laws of physics. “Evolution” is not a “law of physics” that is independent of or supersedes other known laws of physics.

Organisms respond in similar ways to similar circumstances.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

  • Evolution has long been viewed as a largely unpredictable process, influenced by chaotic factors like environmental disruptions and mutations. 
  • However, researchers have demonstrated cases in some organisms of “replicated radiation,” in which similar sets of traits evolve independently in different regions. Now, researchers report the first evidence for replicated radiation in a plant lineage. 
  • As biology learns more about phenomena like replicated radiation, we might be able to predict the course of evolution.

Evolution has a reputation for being unpredictable, yet orderly. With mutations and the environment playing huge roles, it seems that predicting which species will evolve which traits is much like guessing the roll of a single die with millions of faces. 

However, in some cases, researchers have found that the die rolls the same way again and again. A combination of separate organisms’ natural development and the environmental pressures placed on them can create very similar forms, or ecomorphs. Researchers call this phenomenon replicated radiation. (Sometimes, the term adaptive radiation is used synonymously.)

In a new paper published in the journal Nature Ecology & Evolution, an international group of researchers demonstrated that a plant lineage living in 11 geographically isolated regions independently evolved new species with similar leaf forms. This marks the first example of replicated radiation in plants, and the groundbreaking research gives us more insight into the possible future workings of evolution. 

Note: Reason suggests that the development of “similar leaf forms” stems from the fact that they all started from the same “plant lineage.” Furthermore, reason suggests that the original plant lineage had a built-in genomic variability that allowed the variant leaf forms to dominate when environmental pressures favored that form.

evolution
Credit: Annelisa Leinbach / Big Think

The article continues: Different species of Oreinotinus [Viburnum] have different types of leaves. Simply put, some have a large, hair-covered leaf, and others have a smaller, smooth leaf. Originally, experts postulated that both leaf forms evolved early in the group’s history and then dispersed separately through various mountain ranges, carried perhaps by birds. But the distribution pattern of the species, combined with the striking differences in leaf traits, gave researchers an ideal system to explore the possibility that these leaf forms evolved independently across different regions. In other words, they could explore whether this was a case of replicated radiation.

If replicated radiation is occurring, the researchers would expect two key results. First, species in the same area should be more closely related to each other than to species in different regions. Second, similar leaf traits should be present in most areas, but they should evolve independently of one another.

Turning over the same leaf

As Oreinotinus diversified, four major leaf types evolved independently from an ancestral leaf form. The four forms varied in size, shape, margin — that is, whether the edge of the leaf is smooth or toothed — and the presence of leaf hairs. The study grouped the leaves into four types. The researchers also backed up their assessments with a statistical analysis based on these characteristics. 

Nine of the 11 areas harbor at least two leaf forms; four areas include three forms; and one, Oaxaca, is home to four. Based on simulations and models, the authors rejected the simple evolutionary model in which the leaf forms evolved before the species dispersed. They also found that chance alone does not likely explain why nine areas of endemism host two or more leaf forms. Based on these lines of evidence, the team concluded that leaf forms evolved separately within multiple regions. The leaf morphs did not originate early in Oreinotinus evolution. Rather, as different lineages diversified within different areas, each lineage “traversed the same regions of leaf morpho-space.”

So what is this clade telling us when it evolves different leaf forms? As it turns out, different leaves provide different advantages that suit particular climate niches. For example, the smaller leaves would allow more precise thermoregulation — the leaf won’t get too hot or too cold as the weather changes. On the other hand, large leaves would be better for lower-light, frequently cloudy environments, because they improve light capture and make photosynthesis more efficient. So the different leaf ecomorphs are adapted to specific sets of subtly different but often adjacent environmental niches.

The future of evolution

Researchers can now add Oreinotinus to an exclusive list of other groups of organisms known to have undergone replicated radiation, such as Anolis lizards in the Caribbean, cichlid fishes in African rift lakes, and spiders in Hawaii.

With a plant on the list, evolutionary biologists know this is not a trend exclusive to animals isolated on islands, where most of the other examples come from. Like island archipelagos, the cloud forest environments of Oreinotinus are separate from one another. A plant example will help evolutionary biologists pinpoint the broad circumstances under which we can make solid predictions about evolution.

Whether it’s Darwin’s finches, Oreinotinus, or a group of sugar-hungry E. coli, we are all subject to the mysterious workings of evolution. But perhaps, as a diverse set of research groups work to tackle the problem, the mystery will fade. As Michael Donoghue, a co-corresponding author of the Oreinotinus  study, said in a statement, “Maybe evolutionary biology can become much more of a predictive science than we ever imagined in the past.”

Full article at Big Think.

Predictive success alone does not guarantee the success of a theory of how nature works. Additional consequences of a theory must also make sense and not contradict established laws of nature. Naturalistic evolution still contradicts the principle that natural causes will on average degrade the information content (loss of functional complexity) of a system over time.

Comments
PS, on the logic, principles and dynamics of inventive problem solving leading to technological evolution, we have repeatedly pointed to TRIZ. Of course, there is the studied pretence that this is not on the table. This is just one of dozens of cases pointing to selective hyperskepticism.kairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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AF, on your turnabout false projection, intelligently directed configuration is as close to hand as your cleverly constructed talking points. How do you compose text in English? There is your answer. Text in DNA expressing coded algorithms for making proteins has only one empirically warranted source. Language using intelligence with ability as a programmer backed by deep knowledge of polymer chemistry and molecular nanotech. You further know that blind chance and/or mechanical necessity face a needle in haystack search challenge in large configuration spaces that makes such maximally implausible. How do we know this? Simple, you implicitly assign text in this thread to mind, not functionality filtered lucky noise. We can go on and on and on, but all that would do is allow you to parade the same selective hyperskepticism and supercilious snideness you have exhibited for months. KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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AF, doubling down on the loaded rhetorical evasion. I append a specific challenge. Answer it or stand exposed as having no cogent answer. KF PS, Haldane, again:
[JBSH, REFACTORED AS SKELETAL, AUGMENTED PROPOSITIONS:] "It seems to me immensely unlikely that mind is a mere by-product of matter. For
if [p:] my mental processes are determined wholly by the motions of atoms in my brain [–> taking in DNA, epigenetics and matters of computer organisation, programming and dynamic-stochastic processes; notice, "my brain," i.e. self referential] ______________________________ [ THEN] [q:] I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true. [--> indeed, blindly mechanical computation is not in itself a rational process, the only rationality is the canned rationality of the programmer, where survival-filtered lucky noise is not a credible programmer, note the functionally specific, highly complex organised information rich code and algorithms in D/RNA, i.e. language and goal directed stepwise process . . . an observationally validated adequate source for such is _____ ?] [Corollary 1:] They may be sound chemically, but that does not make them sound logically. And hence [Corollary 2:] I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms. [--> grand, self-referential delusion, utterly absurd self-falsifying incoherence] [Implied, Corollary 3: Reason and rationality collapse in a grand delusion, including of course general, philosophical, logical, ontological and moral knowledge; reductio ad absurdum, a FAILED, and FALSE, intellectually futile and bankrupt, ruinously absurd system of thought.]
In order to escape from this necessity of sawing away the branch on which I am sitting, so to speak, I am compelled to believe that mind is not wholly conditioned by matter.” ["When I am dead," in Possible Worlds: And Other Essays [1927], Chatto and Windus: London, 1932, reprint, p.209. Cf. here on (and esp here) on the self-refutation by self-falsifying self referential incoherence and on linked amorality.]
kairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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Anyway, no rush, KF. I'm sure you have important matters to see to. As have I.Alan Fox
August 31, 2022
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Absent a response on point, we can therefore safely conclude you and the wider penumbra of selective hyperskepticism do not have a cogent response.
I'll take that as a no.Alan Fox
August 31, 2022
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Also, why is the burden all on me to demonstrate the complete A to Z of evolutionary theory, yet here at Uncommon Descent, I can't get anyone to give me any sort of clear explanation of how "Intelligent Design" works? Seems unfair. :(Alan Fox
August 31, 2022
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AF, personality loaded evasion. You know exactly what is being required but think you can play stylistics as rhetoric of dismissal. Absent a response on point, we can therefore safely conclude you and the wider penumbra of selective hyperskepticism do not have a cogent response. That has been precisely your track record, yet again, for months. KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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@ KF You'll have to put that into clear English if you want a response from me.Alan Fox
August 31, 2022
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AF, I will ignore the polarising projections. Instead, let us ask you to start from evolutionary materialistic scientism [or your fellow traveller ideology of choice], and arrive at the rational, responsible freedom required to have enough morally governed mind that honesty is more than empty mouth noise that then becomes inherently a term of manipulation. Along the way, account for origin of life, address the multiple Nobel Prize winning evidence behind the summary that in D/RNA we find complex coded functional algorithmic information. Similarly, account for body plans, thence mind. In particular, answer adequately what J B S Haldane put on the table. KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2022
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Whilst you, KF, are far from the worst offenders here, you make an implied ad hominem attack. Do you honestly think I don't mean what I say when I write comments here?Alan Fox
August 30, 2022
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Let's compare notes, KF. Would you agree there is value in the inquisitorial method over the adversarial method in inquiring into issues? First agree the common ground and then argue over the differences.Alan Fox
August 30, 2022
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AF, kindly examine your recent track record. KFkairosfocus
August 30, 2022
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So is there any value in being honest rather than a propagandist? Personally, I'm disappointed at the repetitive misrepresentation I'm seeing here. But maybe people are only mistaken and not doing it deliberately. Me, I don't see the point in making statements that I know are not accurate, but then I'm not a politician or a realtor.Alan Fox
August 30, 2022
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@Sandy You don’t say….AaronS1978
August 30, 2022
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Thousands of messages, not a single mind has changed its position. The summary can be encapsulated in 2 lines dialoque: Atheist: You are dumb, there is no God. Theist: No you are dumb, there is God . .... Repeat with different words to sound like news. .... Repeat. .... Repeat.Sandy
August 30, 2022
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Related @107, Yes, exactly. All those miraculous accidents involving the eye MUSTA happened because . . . we have eyes (ta-da). There, that proves it! And the fossil record is absolutely FILLED with the accidents and failures of evolution (three eyes, one eye in the back of the skull, eye sockets in the palms of hands, etc.) that went extinct. Absolutely filled! But fossils are very, very rare and we haven't actually really ever found any of them . . . yet . . . in the ordinary, literal sense of the word, BUT, Top Scientists are supremely confident that eventually such fossils will be found! No doubt about it! Top scientists! -Q (LOL)Querius
August 30, 2022
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JVL, don't you recognise chance variation plus natural selection [= differential reproductive success] so called? That's telling. KF PS, note: https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/natural-selection >>Natural selection is the process through which populations of living organisms adapt and change. Individuals in a population are naturally variable, meaning that they are all different in some ways. This variation means that some individuals have traits better suited to the environment than others. Individuals with adaptive traits—traits that give them some advantage—are more likely to survive and reproduce. These individuals then pass the adaptive traits on to their offspring. Over time, these advantageous traits become more common in the population. Through this process of natural selection, favorable traits are transmitted through generations.>>kairosfocus
August 30, 2022
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AS1978 at 112, What can be said about certain posters regarding evolution? They must defend it. They have no choice. Should evolution by blind, unguided chance fall then what will fill the vacuum? Intelligent Design. They know that, so they must continue. And yes, it requires no God so it must be defended.relatd
August 30, 2022
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If Darwin did anything he created a godlessness of gaps argument, use time and probability. Simply garbage.
Not really. Darwin did (unintentionally)a good thing for the truth: he created a Fly Paper for all materialists. Jesus talked about peoples like Darwin to His disciples, “It is inevitable that stumbling blocks will come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him to have a millstone hung around his neck and to be thrown into the sea than to cause one of these little ones to stumble.Lieutenant Commander Data
August 30, 2022
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@ relatd 111 It sets it up so that EVERYTHING can constitute as evidence for evolution. Nothing counts against it. And it reflects in many of the posts by Alan Fox and JVL. A lot of this is arguing the glass is half full vs half empty. It’s a matter of how you look at it. Evolution is easily defendable because of its myriad of “just so stories” that are slightly plausible allowing anything to be evidence So what’s not evidence for evolution? The answer is there is no evidence against evolution because everything can be considered evidence for it Point in case, I made a comment that it took 4 billion years to evolve the most complex structure of the universe “the human brain” but yet evolution can’t create a doormat The retort by certain individuals here was “evolution created the human which created the doormat so evolution did create the doormat” This is all god of gaps thinking. It’s not that things support evolution, it’s just that people like Alan fox force all forms of evidence into the clay mush that is evolution and evolution theory fits around it If Darwin did anything he created a godlessness of gaps argument, use time and probability. Simply garbage.AaronS1978
August 30, 2022
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JVL at 109, You are the one making ludicrous statements. And "I don't understand" a just-so story? Evolution is slow, except when it isn't. Evolution makes unique features except when it doesn't. With a storytelling formula like that, all that's needed is imagination. Not credible. Just not credible. If I told you that ID was implemented on a certain date, what would that change?relatd
August 30, 2022
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So I request this: “So get specific. Show us a specific trail of small-step evidence, where unguided evolution occurred.” …and unsurprisingly there are evasions and crickets. Andrewasauber
August 30, 2022
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Relatd: The lens is formed by accident. You know very well that no one is claiming the things you cite all of a sudden came into existence. And if you don't know that then you are not even trying to understand the theory you are opposing. Either way, people are not going to take you seriously when you make such ludicrous statements.JVL
August 30, 2022
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Asauber: ID doesn’t make claims it can’t deliver on. ID says almost nothing and that makes it a better explanation? Really? ID can't say when design was implemented; some even say it can't say anything about that. ID says zilch about how design was implemented. ID says double zilch about why design was implemented. In fact, ID makes almost no claims at all. ID has one, single statement: some stuff looks designed. And the reasons? Firstly, we can't see how natural processes could have come up with what we observe (a negative argument). Secondly, there's a lot of complicated 'directions' in things like DNA and we've only observed intelligent beings coming up with stuff like that. BUT we've only noticed HUMAN BEINGS coming up with stuff like that. That doesn't mean there were any other intelligent beings around at whatever time you can't specify who did something you also can't specify. You can't just 'logic' other beings into existence. Especially when you can't even say when they were around. I am perfect happy to consider the design inference when and if you guys come up with some more evidence and some more statements about when and how design was implemented. You can't get more support for ID just by picking on unguided evolutionary theory because it doesn't spell out every single step when you have zero intention of ever doing that yourself. IF there was design it had to be implemented, 'made flesh'. That had to happen at a particular time or times. It had to be carried out in a particular way. When you take pride in not even trying to address those questions you just show how shallow ID is at this time. IF you do some more work and put the whole endeavour on a firmer footing then you might have something. IF you do that.JVL
August 30, 2022
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Querius at 99, So, blind, unguided chance kept spitting out random organisms until it got a few right, and THEN that organism, and the other, had to find the right niche? Let's create a human eye: The lens is formed by accident. The eyeball is formed by accident. The optic nerve is formed by accident. It is connected to the right location in the brain by accident. The rods and cones in the eyes were created by accident so we can see color and black and white. Two openings in the skull that fit the eyeballs are formed by accident and are the right distance apart for true stereoscopic vision, by accident. Then an accident occurred to create eyelids and eyelashes.relatd
August 30, 2022
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"And ID is a better explanation. Really?" JVL, Yes ID doesn't make claims it can't deliver on. On the other hand, your unguided evolution position is literally a farce. Andrewasauber
August 30, 2022
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Asauber: La de da. I claim to be King of Siam. Go clean my pool. And you can't even say when design was implemented. Not a guess, not a hypothesis, nothing. And ID is a better explanation. Really?JVL
August 30, 2022
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Querius: The half-life of DNA has been scientifically determined to be 521 years (https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.11555). Okay. That seems okay with me. Which means that previous predictions about being able to recover ancient DNA were far too optimistic. AND the previous paper you cited was 20 YEARS older!! So, guess what, scientists may no longer be making that claim. NOT "Darwinists still claim". Are you even looking at the papers you cite?JVL
August 30, 2022
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"They claim it exists." JVL, La de da. I claim to be King of Siam. Go clean my pool. Andrewasauber
August 30, 2022
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JVL @97,
Pick one of those assertions and we shall look into it. Which one will you pick . . .
Ok, I pick . . . The half-life of DNA has been scientifically determined to be 521 years (https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.11555). Thus, after only seven half lives or about 3,600 years, less than 1% of DNA would survive under ideal conditions (-5 C). It’s predicted that EVERY BOND in DNA would be destroyed in 6.8 million years. Nevertheless, Darwinists still claim that DNA sequences from insects in amber are 25-30 million years old (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1411508/) and that Neanderthal DNA has been sequenced as far back as 430,000 years (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1411508/). - QQuerius
August 30, 2022
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