Atheism Creationism Darwinism Evolution Intelligent Design

If Braterman wants to learn something from creationists, he could begin by wiping the sneer off his face.

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From Paul Braterman of slam dunk creationists fame at The Conversation:

Listening to creationists can strengthen our understanding of evolution

Sounds promising. As John Sturt Mill put it, people who do not understand the arguments against their position do not know their own position well. One naturally wonders why it takes so long for some people to tumble to that, but never mind.

Can we learn from creationists – people who deny evolution? I think so. It is not enough to say, as Richard Dawkins notoriously did: “If you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane…” That’s a dead end. Conversation is a two-way street, and if I want creationists to learn from me, I must at least in principle be ready to learn from them.

Okay, but what follows is a mere rehash of classical Darwinian talking points, along the lines that order can merely somehow arise from chaos, Order for Free. Yet we know that, when observed, things don’t happen that way.

Darwinism is somewhat like the traditional notion of the spontaneous generation of life. It is never actually demonstrated, only propounded. As in the case of Darwinian evolution by widely publicized piffling examples like Darwin’s finches, which, after all the science media hoopla, remain just finches, with varying adaptations from one cycle of seasons to the next. But then we read,

And lastly, creationists complain, evolution doesn’t explain consciousness, define morality, or give meaning and purpose to our lives. But should we expect it to? There is much to think about here; much to learn from. More.

Excuse us but Darwinists, heart and soul, are attempting to explain consciousness, define morality, and give meaning and purpose to our lives every day and we hear from them a lot. Of course it’s all vulgar and absurd, and it’s no surprise that many atheists, agnostics, and non-church-goers don’t “believe in” evolution—possibly in consequence.

Listen to creationists to strengthen evolution? For some people, listening to themselves would be faster and better.

See also: Prof claims to know how to slam dunk creationists

Large numbers doubt that evolution explains human consciousness (including atheists)

Teaching evolution to creationist students: Why would anyone who was embarking on teaching evolution as a serious project in good faith try to involve a virulently anti-religious figure like Dawkins in the argument?

Tales of the Tone Deaf, featuring dim profs writing in dozy journals about why people doubt Science and how to fix them.

and

What the fossils told us in their own words

12 Replies to “If Braterman wants to learn something from creationists, he could begin by wiping the sneer off his face.

  1. 1
    tribune7 says:

    Darwinism happens. Obviously, natural selection exists and has been observed, and genetic changes do naturally occur in organisms.

    OTOH, to claim that it is by itself a reasonable — much less definitive — explanation for all biodiversity and the existence of life is laughable. It is a mythology.

    The proponents of extremist evolution are not interested in truth or reason but in comforting themselves and justifying their own life choices.

    They are the very definition of anti-science.

  2. 2
    ET says:

    The first problem is that “evolution” has several meanings. And to show someone is “denying evolution” you have to show they are denying all of those definitions.

    As far as I can tell even YECs accept evolution as a change in allele frequency over time. YECs even accept that speciation occurs. What YECs doubt, because there isn’t any evidence for it nor a way to scientifically test it, is macro-evolution, ie the formation of new body parts and new body plans.

  3. 3
    tribune7 says:

    –The first problem is that “evolution” has several meanings.–

    And the solution is to discuss a meaning and not a word until the word becomes understood to have a meaning in an obvious context.

    There those today who speak in the name of “science” but whose conclusions are like that of superstitious Druids. The real problems come when they start trying to run the lives of others based on this “scientific” authority.

  4. 4
    rvb8 says:

    “widely publicised piffling examples like Darwin’s finches, which, after all the science media hoopla remain finches.”

    I’m not sure about a sneering Braterman, but for NEWS, it’s a standard tactic.

  5. 5
    ET says:

    rvb8- Everyone should sneer at evolutionists in part because they make absurd and untestable claims but try to pass them off as science.

  6. 6
    rvb8 says:

    Yes ET,

    and yet there they sit in hundreds of universities, in thousands of labs all wasting time, billions in research funds, and resources that could be better utulized in the myriad new avenues of investigation, opened by the fecund field of Design Theory.

  7. 7
    LocalMinimum says:

    rvb8 @ 6:

    …and yet there they sit in hundreds of universities, in thousands of labs all wasting time, billions in research funds, and resources that could be better utulized in the myriad new avenues of investigation, opened by the fecund field of Design Theory.

    The field of bionics, the reverse engineering methodology that evolutionary biology employs (while invoking design mimicry) and the systems based understanding of general biology and medicine show where the actual progress lies; all we would be shedding is unnecessary vocabulary and naturalistic mythologies.

  8. 8
    ET says:

    rvb8- No one uses blind watchmaker evolution for any research. No one is trying to figure out how natural selection produced anything.

    You have absolutely no clue and you are proud of your ignorance. Strange, that

  9. 9
    rvb8 says:

    ET @8,

    actually, as I know the opposition’s position, “God Did It”, it is actually these people who are, ‘proud of their ignorance.’

    I mean, come on! An eternal sky fairy, waved His hands, and it was so.

    Please don’t lecture me on, ‘ignorance’, Mr ET.

  10. 10
    ET says:

    LoL! Thank you rvb8 for continuing to prove that you are an ignorant troll on an agenda.

  11. 11
    ET says:

    By the way, rvb8, you have admitted your ignorance as all you do is bluff and call on unknown evolutionary biologists and non-existent research.

  12. 12
    LocalMinimum says:

    rvb8 @ 9:

    I mean, come on! An eternal sky fairy, waved His hands, and it was so.

    Pretty much the same as “Suddenly, RNA everywhere!”; and, unlike the latter, it’s among the silliest possible representations of its respective theory and in no way necessary to it.

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